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Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Cruisin' Down the Street in my 6/4

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ironmang

Member
I mean, that's fine, its just weird to post a list and then get mad when people comment on it. How am I supposed to know its gonna piss you off if I make a comment on it?

I didn't get mad at all. Just wasn't going to spend all day defending my deck choice. Talking about specific cards, sure why not, but saying "you can't beat vehicles, lands, or creatures" is drive-by tier.

One issue I ran with a reactive deck is that stasis snare gets fragmentized, in the worst case by your own, and that having too many answers wrecks your hand hard and spell queller works much better in tempo than in control.

Unrelated Jace the Fixed Sculptor sucks balls.

Ya it's usually the one I hold onto or use on a creature that's annoying but not backbreaking if they get back. Kind of how I treat what I counter with spell queller. Not sure what you mean by bolded.
 
Going into the PT with a control deck against a bunch of unknowns...

Would wait for the meta personally and focus on aggro or that emerge deck.
 
Ya it's usually the one I hold onto or use on a creature that's annoying but not backbreaking if they get back. Kind of how I treat what I counter with spell queller. Not sure what you mean by bolded.
I've had games where I had 5+ answers to emrakul in hand that made it so my opponent could use them against each other and my board. I still got rid of Emrakul but at the cost of a discard 2 or 3 cards.
Stasis Snare and Fragmentize for instance are risky to board in together.
Going into the PT with a control deck against a bunch of unknowns...

Would wait for the meta personally and focus on aggro or that emerge deck.
PT is its own meta, gotta gamble if you don't have a big team.
 

ironmang

Member
Going into the PT with a control deck against a bunch of unknowns...

Would wait for the meta personally and focus on aggro or that emerge deck.

For something like this I'd rather just go fringe and hope for the best. Just taking a 75 from SCG top 8 this or next week won't do me very good against the people metagaming for it or in the mirror against someone who'll be in a room testing against pros for a week prior to the PT.

I'll be busy Thurs-Monday this week and plan on drafting when I have time next week before I leave so it's really too late for me to jump on some new deck and get any kind of quality time in.
 

Ashodin

Member
For something like this I'd rather just go fringe and hope for the best. Just taking a 75 from SCG top 8 this or next week won't do me very good against the people metagaming for it or in the mirror against someone who'll be in a room testing against pros for a week prior to the PT.

I'll be busy Thurs-Monday this week and plan on drafting when I have time next week before I leave so it's really too late for me to jump on some new deck and get any kind of quality time in.
Tips for draft

If you're in black take every pill bug and dhund operative. They're amazing.
 
What creatures with '~ETB Destroy target artifact' do we have in Standard right now?

How about exile, and it's also a cast trigger?

Image.ashx
 
I'm surprised that everyone at SCG seemed to not be running Low to the Ground Humans RW Humans. GB's list seemed pretty legit. Run 20-ish lands and then curve out with Wild NerdCatal/Expedition Envoy/Gossipmonger/Inspector Gadget, Thalia's Lieutenant/Copter/Hanweir Militia Captain, Thalia HC/Hanweir Garrison and Gideon as a top end. Like, I don't get why you would run Needle Spires mainboard in a deck that wants to curve out Turn 1.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, I think aggro is pretty decent in the format, but I would be surprised if Delirium wasn't still a player.
 

Violet_0

Banned
I'm re-downloading Duels right now, do sets also rotate out there? I only have the Origins cards. Pretty sure I could still rule with an iron fist with U/R copters
 

ultron87

Member
I'm re-downloading Duels right now, do sets also rotate out there? I only have the Origins cards. Pretty sure I could still rule with an iron fist with U/R copters

They currently don't rotate, which means we'll get some possibly interesting stuff with Kaladesh cards interacting with the Kaladesh cards from Origins like Thopter Spy Network in a format that isn't Modern. I'm convinced that one of these sets there's gonna be some way too powerful combo that wasn't ever tested for since why would Origins cards be played in the same format as Amonkhet.

Also the deck building interface is increasingly a nightmare.
 

El Topo

Member
They currently don't rotate, which means we'll get some possibly interesting stuff with Kaladesh cards interacting with the Kaladesh cards from Origins like Thopter Spy Network in a format that isn't Modern. I'm convinced that one of these sets there's gonna be some way too powerful combo that wasn't ever tested for since why would Origins cards be played in the same format as Amonkhet.

Also the deck building interface is increasingly a nightmare.

They've thrown out specific cards that were too powerful before.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They currently don't rotate, which means we'll get some possibly interesting stuff with Kaladesh cards interacting with the Kaladesh cards from Origins like Thopter Spy Network in a format that isn't Modern. I'm convinced that one of these sets there's gonna be some way too powerful combo that wasn't ever tested for since why would Origins cards be played in the same format as Amonkhet.

Also the deck building interface is increasingly a nightmare.

They have deckbuilding limitations that don't exist in Standard though, e.g. number of rares, etc., right?
 

ultron87

Member
They've thrown out specific cards that were too powerful before.

They have deckbuilding limitations that don't exist in Standard though, e.g. number of rares, etc., right?

I guess I'm just expecting at some point there will be some two card combo that is fine for Modern but no one ever tested for Duels and makes it in because they've lost the safety net of R&D not putting busted stuff in Standard. Basically I'm assuming not a ton of resources are being put towards making sure they don't screw up the Duels meta and card choices are mostly based on "can we program this?" (see exclusions of Emrakul and Dovin Baan).

As they add more and more sets even the rarity restrictions will become less effective because you might not be able to put 4 of the same Planeswalker in the deck, but you'll be able to put 4 different ones that cost 4-5 mana and have +1 Card Advantage, -x protect itself, ultimate whatever.

I'm sure if it ever happens they'd take care of it eventually by replacing offending cards. It'd just be a thing where any fixes would just be delayed by 3 months because they don't update it except when a new set releases. I suppose it actually mirrors paper Magic in that way.
 
I don't think the control top end is powerful enough to win. Torrential Gearhulk isn't it. Sphinx of the Final Word is closer, but I'm not sold. It's not like you can drop Elspeth or something and start taking over.

Also, is there a creature combo in Legacy good enough for Dubious Challenge and Homeward Path?
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";218949629]I don't think the control top end is powerful enough to win. Torrential Gearhulk isn't it. Sphinx of the Final Word is closer, but I'm not sold. It's not like you can drop Elspeth or something and start taking over.[/QUOTE]

I think the answer there is Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Owner of a local LGS's P1P1. (He passed the Chandra)

FY3g2CR.jpg
 
I think the answer there is Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.

The problem is that if you run enough mid-level planeswalkers your counter spells get a lot worse and Gideon doesn't win you the game the way the real big finishers do. Which in turn leans you more heavily towards sorcery speed removal like Fumigate that the best and most common card in standard dodges. I just haven't been impressed by control decks this format, card-quality wise. It seems like you either want to be doing something fast or degenerate with the current card pool. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the cards people are trying to jam into control strategies just wind up being a UW spirits deck or something.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";218951015]The problem is that if you run enough mid-level planeswalkers your counter spells get a lot worse and Gideon doesn't win you the game the way the real big finishers do. Which in turn leans you more heavily towards sorcery speed removal like Fumigate that the best and most common card in standard dodges. I just haven't been impressed by control decks this format, card-quality wise. It seems like you either want to be doing something fast or degenerate with the current card pool. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the cards people are trying to jam into control strategies just wind up being a UW spirits deck or something.[/QUOTE]

There's also the fact that Gideon himself is kind of hard to beat with a standard draw-go strategy.
 

Santiako

Member
burn baby burn

wait why don't the aggro decks just fold to kozilek's return?

Because vehicles survive it, Delpala survives it, Nerd Ape survives it, Selfless Spirit makes everyone else survive it even if it's a 5 damage one, and Scrapheap Scrounger just comes back.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The aggro decks would have just played Lightning Strike
 

Yeef

Member
I guess I'm just expecting at some point there will be some two card combo that is fine for Modern but no one ever tested for Duels and makes it in because they've lost the safety net of R&D not putting busted stuff in Standard. Basically I'm assuming not a ton of resources are being put towards making sure they don't screw up the Duels meta and card choices are mostly based on "can we program this?" (see exclusions of Emrakul and Dovin Baan).

As they add more and more sets even the rarity restrictions will become less effective because you might not be able to put 4 of the same Planeswalker in the deck, but you'll be able to put 4 different ones that cost 4-5 mana and have +1 Card Advantage, -x protect itself, ultimate whatever.

I'm sure if it ever happens they'd take care of it eventually by replacing offending cards. It'd just be a thing where any fixes would just be delayed by 3 months because they don't update it except when a new set releases. I suppose it actually mirrors paper Magic in that way.
The developers do work on duels and try to keep it balanced. That's why we didn't get Descend Upon the Sinful or Fumigate; they don't want too many sweeper in the format. Plenty of other powerful cards don't make it into the game because of saturation concerns. Incendiary Flow, for example, is fine on its own, but likely got kept out of duels because they don't want too much burn that goes to the face in the game.

I do agree with you though; without a rotation of some kind, they're kind of walking on a tightrope. Eventually they'll hit a critical mass issue where they'll basically have to make a decision between compromising an incoming set or letting certain archetypes becomes stronger than they'd like.
 
Those Vehicles are beautiful.

It makes me want to see that mechanic in a Star Wars or Star Trek card game.
I've never played the Star Wars LCG, but I did play the ST and SW CCG back in the day.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The developers do work on duels and try to keep it balanced. That's why we didn't get Descend Upon the Sinful or Fumigate; they don't want too many sweeper in the format. Plenty of other powerful cards don't make it into the game because of saturation concerns. Incendiary Flow, for example, is fine on its own, but likely got kept out of duels because they don't want too much burn that goes to the face in the game.

I do agree with you though; without a rotation of some kind, they're kind of walking on a tightrope. Eventually they'll hit a critical mass issue where they'll basically have to make a decision between compromising an incoming set or letting certain archetypes becomes stronger than they'd like.

In Duels you can get away with it by just deleting cards that aren't helping. It's a benefit of the online format.
 

Yeef

Member
In Duels you can get away with it by just deleting cards that aren't helping. It's a benefit of the online format.
Yes and no. They've already done card substitutions for power level reasons, but those were all on cards in the starter pack (the ones everyone gets by default). When you start doing substitutions for cards that come in booster packs (that people may have paid for) it's a bit of a slippery slope. They risk upsetting their player base. They've done one substitution already, but it was because the card was buggy and too much work to fix; not for power-level reasons.

The critical mass issue shows its head the most on the mana base. For a long time, 4 and 5 color goodstuff decks were the best way to go because the format is a lot slower and fixing was plentiful. They've since substituted some of the problem cards, but their hands are now tied on adding new duals to the game. The new fast lands were skipped and I bet whatever duels show up in Amonkhet will be skipped, too. They did, surprisingly, add Aether Hub, which was probably a mistake in the long term, but we'll see.

Of course, there's also the chance that they already have a time table in place for Digital Next. If they know that Duels will be phased out, it could be that it's soon enough that they're not overly worried about the long-term implications of the card pool.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Duels interface is annoying so I've played very little of it.
 

Ashodin

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";218971121]I just want to take all the prisms and gold cards when I play kaladesh draft. Might start playing standard in paper again soon.[/QUOTE]

do you know how sexy it is to drop prism turn 2 and be able to any time after do Unlicensed Disintegration with the 3 damage bonus?
 

y2dvd

Member
Blacks recursion in this draft set is pretty amazing. Between Dukhara Scavenger, Fortuitous Finds, Ovalchase Daredevil, and Restoration Gearsmith, I had an opponent recast the same spell over and over and over again.
 

red13th

Member
Brimaz, Hero of Bladehold and Hanweir Garrison became "create a token that's attacking/blocking that creature" and "create a token that's tapped and attacking" if anyone else besides me was curious how the wording would end up. :p
 

MoxManiac

Member
Now I remember why I hate MTGO. The broken shuffler. Mana screw four games in a row in a deck with 17 lands and 2 mana dorks. Fuck this broken piece of shit.
 

Ashodin

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";218977895]Does anybody actually have evidence that MTGO's shuffler is broken? I hear complaints about every shuffler out there.[/QUOTE]

GB go to tournaments with me
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";218977895]Does anybody actually have evidence that MTGO's shuffler is broken? I hear complaints about every shuffler out there.[/QUOTE]

Someone once tried reverse engineering and proclaimed it's bad but that was quickly shot down as incorrect. It's way more random than it will ever be in paper.
 

MoxManiac

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";218977895]Does anybody actually have evidence that MTGO's shuffler is broken? I hear complaints about every shuffler out there.[/QUOTE]

No, I'm just venting about my terrible luck.
 
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