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Major Nelson: Xbox One and 360 Were The Top Selling Consoles In December...in USA

I think someone has Y2Kev's posts on what competition is really all about somewhere :p

As Y2Kev more eloquently put, a system performing poorly relative to its competition is exactly what "competition' is all about - it's consumers choosing one over another. When PS2 was pretty much alone at the top of the roost, we had some of the most unbelievable library of games in the history of this industry.

You're confusing cause and effect. The PS2 owning most of the console market share isn't the reason WHY the PS2 had a great lineup. The more likely reasons were that developers had a much better handle on how to make polygonal games, developers had more system power to make games much more realistic, and the growth of the overall market led to more money in the market which leads to more games overall. I don't believe you could put together a logical argument that supports a theory that we would have gotten worse games if that generation had had a more even market share split.

We had a ton of great games in every generation, no matter if it was ruled by one console (NES, PS2) or if it was more evenly split (SNES/Genesis, Wii/360/PS3). I've been through every generation since the 2600 and enjoyed this most recent generation, which was the most competitive yet, the most. That somewhat speaks to tastes, but it mostly speaks to the huge increase in the size of the industry, which meant more money being poured in, which meant more great games being delivered to us than ever before.
 

Amir0x

Banned
You're confusing cause and effect. The PS2 owning most of the console market share isn't the reason WHY the PS2 had a great lineup. The more likely reasons were that developers had a much better handle on how to make polygonal games, developers had more system power to make games much more realistic, and the growth of the overall market led to more money in the market which leads to more games overall. I don't believe you could put together a logical argument that supports a theory that we would have gotten worse games if that generation had had a more even market share split.

We had a ton of great games in every generation, no matter if it was ruled by one console (NES, PS2) or if it was more evenly split (SNES/Genesis, Wii/360/PS3). I've been through every generation since the 2600 and enjoyed this most recent generation, which was the most competitive yet, the most. That somewhat speaks to tastes, but it mostly speaks to the huge increase in the size of the industry, which meant more money being poured in, which meant more great games being delivered to us than ever before.

I don't agree with this for a lot of reasons, but I'll avoid posting lists since how great a library is will always be subjective.

But, simply put, Xbox and Gamecube had more power. Gamecube was cheaper. And both would have benefited from developers experience with polygon games. They came out later, however, but not so late that would explain the gargantuan difference in unit sales. No system has dominated as completely as PS2 did, unless we're talking about the handheld space.

This led to the greatest proliferation of high quality exclusives the industry has probably ever seen, and almost indisputably the greatest variety of games - an age when jRPGs were still relevant and regularly released, when music games saw their epoch, when experiments of all types had a shot at actually doing well at retail. And why? Because the market wasn't fractured. Everyone who wanted these games almost always got a PS2, because they knew that was where the games were. And that caused Microsoft to fight much harder during the 360 gen, and we saw the results.

I loved my Gamecube (I wasn't a Xbox fan until 360), but the PS2 being extremely dominant did not mean consumers suffered. Instead, you could buy a PS2 and know you'd be getting one of the most insane values for your dollar of all time for a game console. We haven't got a system again like that since. One can maybe say the DS, but that was held back by its N64-era technology.
 

Polo67

Member
But Microsoft is stuffing the channel and is far exceeding demand now, doesn't that make them the hare?

I am confused about your analogy :p

Confused ? Slow and steady sales is what's going to win this . Far exceeding demand is a stretch. We see a couple of photos of xbones stacked to the ceiling and people are like OMG there is no demand. There is high demand but MS can produce much more than that. How is that a bad thing ? Anyway I can't wait for January NPDs. We will see how many peoples tunes change once again.
 

PhatSaqs

Banned
Almost every single time I've ever seen it used the person is trying to suggest that unless the other company is staying "close" in the game, then people thinking that's fine are doing something wrong. I mean you can try to say that isn't the case, but I've witnessed this thing now probably nearly half a hundred times, and almost every time when the person elaborates, it's exactly as that. Which is why Y2Kev's post has become prolific.
The poster in question simply said "COMPETITION IS GOOD" seemingly in response to some people being pissed that the X1 is selling decently (judging from these numbers). You and others telling him he's wrong because Y2Kev says being on even footing isnt what comp is about really has nothing to do with his response to people seemingly being upset that X1 is selling decently up to this point. IMO of course.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
I don't agree with this for a lot of reasons, but I'll avoid posting lists since how great a library is will always be subjective.

But, simply put, Xbox and Gamecube had more power. Gamecube was cheaper. And both would have benefited from developers experience with polygon games. They came out later, however, but not so late that would explain the gargantuan difference in unit sales. No system has dominated as completely as PS2 did, unless we're talking about the handheld space.

This led to the greatest proliferation of high quality exclusives the industry has probably ever seen, and almost indisputably the greatest variety of games - an age when jRPGs were still relevant and regularly released, when music games saw their epoch, when experiments of all types had a shot at actually doing well at retail. And why? Because the market wasn't fractured. Everyone who wanted these games almost always got a PS2, because they knew that was where the games were. And that caused Microsoft to fight much harder during the 360 gen, and we saw the results.

I loved my Gamecube (I wasn't a Xbox fan until 360), but the PS2 being extremely dominant did not mean consumers suffered. Instead, you could buy a PS2 and know you'd be getting one of the most insane values for your dollar of all time for a game console. We haven't got a system again like that since. One can maybe say the DS, but that was held back by its N64-era technology.

I think part of the reason why the PS2 had such a great variety of games too was due to how things were back then in terms of game budgets. Even if another console came out with the same dominance, I don't think it will ever have the same variety of good complete games that the PS2 had. Too many things have changed since then (huge increase in game budgets, decreasing mainstream popularity of certain game genres, etc.).
 

Amir0x

Banned
Confused ? Slow and steady sales is what's going to win this . Far exceeding demand is a stretch. We see a couple of photos of xbones stacked to the ceiling and people are like OMG there is no demand. There is high demand but MS can produce much more than that. How is that a bad thing ? Anyway I can't wait for January NPDs. We will see how many peoples tunes change once again.

Again, Microsoft's only real competitive territories are UK, US and Australia. It's not just photos. Xbox One is in stock everywhere while with the PS4 you're lucky to find stock on shelves for more than a few hours.

If in your second launch month in one of your ONLY strong territories you are able to found everywhere by the middle of the month, the logical conclusion is you're far exceeding demand. I haven't been to a store since the middle of December where I haven't seen an XBO, and many GAFers report the same, and the "Nowinstock" website has reflected this online and all the limited hard data we have has also supports this.

I am willing to think differently, but you'll have to present some better evidence.

I am not saying it's bad Microsoft is exceeding demand (well, not necessarily), I am saying that since Sony has not met demand and yet has still outsold Microsoft in total in US for 2013, that means they still have a few more months where they will be selling every unit they can make. I think by definition this puts them in a more enviable position.

I am also not sure I have ever seen someone argue that "slow and steady console sales" win the race, but there is a first for everything. For the record, I am not sure "slow by steady" has ever won a console race before :p

PhatSaqs said:
The poster in question simply said "COMPETITION IS GOOD" seemingly in response to some people being pissed that the X1 is selling decently (judging from these numbers). You and others telling him he's wrong because Y2Kev says being on even footing isnt what comp is about really has nothing to do with his response to people seemingly being upset that X1 is selling decently up to this point. IMO of course.

As I said, and which you ignored, I've seen countless examples of this phrase being used, and almost every single time it is not for the reason you've stated. It's simply a case of being conditioned to respond to the silly reasoning. You want to posit fanboy motivation, be my guest. I'm not sure you'll have an easy case calling me a fanboy, or many others. But hey, rafter out of ones own eye, etc.
 
So is it USA only or not?

For the love of God, read the OP and the tweet:

"NPD: Xbox One and Xbox 360 were the top selling consoles for each generation in the US in December. 908k (Xbox One) and 643k (Xbox 360)"

But Microsoft is stuffing the channel and is far exceeding demand now, doesn't that make them the hare?

I am confused about your analogy :p

You've used this language multiple times about supply FAR exceeding demand. What is the basis of that? The fact that most retail stores seem to have supply? Available supply does not mean that supply exceeds demand. It just means that supply is meeting demand. In other words, it's the same thing as saying that the supply of paper towels far exceeds demand because it's always there when you go to the store. You don't have enough information to make that claim. All you know from seeing that is that they are meeting demand for paper towels. By visual inspection alone, you are not privy to the full view of the supply chain.

It's too soon to say if Microsoft is continuously shipping into channels without units being sold, so claims of channel stuffing are premature. They might be, but we can't possibly know that yet in mid-January. We should know more by the end of Q1 or Q2 when there are less likely to be any shortages for the three consoles and regular production patterns have been established.
 
Heh, well, I still consider the PS3 a business failure, and I think Sony does too. But yes, the Sony brand is not over ;P



Well most people who say that mean they want a drag out knock out fight where each are fighting for every bit of ground.

However, I don't really know what to feel about Microsoft. I was by far a primary 360 gamer, but what they originally intended to do with XBO was worth wishing them to fail. Now they changed it, I don't want them to fail. But they have said multiple times now that they just think it wasn't the right time, that the DRM stuff is still a long-term goal. If I support XBO, am I supporting their future strategy which I consider inherently anti-consumer?

People need to understand that wanting a system to fail doesn't necessarily make you a fanboy. As a consumer, you might feel a product is simply bad for the industry in which it exists, and there may be good reason for it. When PS3 was announced at $600, I wanted it to fail relative to the 360. I wanted Sony to learn we weren't the type of consumers who would 'get a second job' just to get a luxury item like that. Does that make an individual a fanboy? Does that mean they are wrong? And they did learn, didn't they?

Sometimes a failure teaches many great things.

Why do you need the console to fail? just don't buy the console.
 

artist

Banned
LMAO at certain (the same) people clinging to Kevs sales parity posts in response to anyone mentioning the words "competition is good". It almost looks like a coordinated effort of some sort.
I like how you stopped one step short of uttering the
SonyGAF
word. ;) :D

The people have decided, Xbox will forever be dominant in US.
Pop that champagne! Tonight we party.
 
Xbox will take and keep the US market next year with Titanfall, Halo, and a price drop.

Nah.

It will experience a big spike in sales during the week of Titanfall's release and probably outsell the PS4 in the US during release week and maybe 1-2 weeks after. Then after those 1-3 weeks, things will return to the status quo and the sales rhythms will return to normal. Same thing will happen with Halo.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Why do you need the console to fail? just don't buy the console.

I don't. I would have wanted the console to fail if it went with the DRM stuff, but it did not. Obviously you want a system that is inherently anti-consumer to fail because if it does not, that behavior would spread and infect the rest of the industry. And that would then be an industry I would want no part of, since I am a consumer.

Now, that isn't the case. As I said, I no longer want Xbox One to fail because they appropriately responded to consumer criticism and reacted quickly - they deserve far more credit than Sony did in turning the PS3 around early, because Sony was bitter and arrogant about the PS3 for far longer and didn't change near as fast. So half a gen was spent languishing, so-to-speak.

These sorts of things are really simple. Because I buy for games, not systems, I want the industry that is the healthiest for consumers, no matter who is in the lead. If it was Sony that initially went the DRM debacle, I would have wanted the same for them. If it were Nintendo, the same. And if they changed their tune as quickly as Microsoft, I would have then no longer wished that, same as I no longer wish that for XBO.
 

DC R1D3R

Banned
XBOX FAMILY

f1fed8065e89f585c7d29923169d326e_normal.jpeg
say cheese
 

Amir0x

Banned
My goodness someone really really went off the deep end, didn't they?

like, demented.

You would probably get better mileage out of passive aggressive posting by choosing to highlight and analyze the "demented" posts in question, even though we all know who you are referring to, instead of just doing hit and runs. But you know that, right Stinkles?
 

cackhyena

Member
You would probably get better mileage out of passive aggressive posting by choosing to highlight and analyze the "demented" posts in question, even though we all know who you are referring to, instead of just doing hit and runs. But you know that, right Stinkles?
Take a break, guy. Jesus.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Take a break, guy. Jesus.

Take a break from what, exactly? We are having a discussion that is on topic. If you disagree with the points being made, your option is to highlight why and try to discuss that. If you fail to do that, you're not really contributing. What Stinkles was doing was passive aggressive posting that had no contributive value. In fact, he was insulting a user.
 
I don't agree with this for a lot of reasons, but I'll avoid posting lists since how great a library is will always be subjective.

But, simply put, Xbox and Gamecube had more power. Gamecube was cheaper. And both would have benefited from developers experience with polygon games. They came out later, however, but not so late that would explain the gargantuan difference in unit sales. No system has dominated as completely as PS2 did, unless we're talking about the handheld space.

This led to the greatest proliferation of high quality exclusives the industry has probably ever seen, and almost indisputably the greatest variety of games - an age when jRPGs were still relevant and regularly released, when music games saw their epoch, when experiments of all types had a shot at actually doing well at retail. And why? Because the market wasn't fractured. Everyone who wanted these games almost always got a PS2, because they knew that was where the games were. And that caused Microsoft to fight much harder during the 360 gen, and we saw the results.

I loved my Gamecube (I wasn't a Xbox fan until 360), but the PS2 being extremely dominant did not mean consumers suffered. Instead, you could buy a PS2 and know you'd be getting one of the most insane values for your dollar of all time for a game console. We haven't got a system again like that since. One can maybe say the DS, but that was held back by its N64-era technology.

I think this speaks more for your preferences for eastern-developed games, which still thrived and dominated on the PS2 but were relegated to a much smaller influence this generation (which the notable exception of Nintendo, but we're not really discussing the Wii Sports and Wii Fits of the world). And I'd still argue that thanks to the rise of indies and digital, we saw much more variety in commercially-viable games this past generation than ever before.

I don't know why you say "we haven't gotten a system again like that since." I'd put the 360 and PS3 up there with the PS2.

And come on, the NES was MUCH more dominant than the PS2.
 
Well done, but they basically won December in North America because Sony couldn't ship more, not because there was more demand for Xbone, so this probably won't be a lasting victory.
You never know with america. It is xbox territory. We need more time and sales data before jumping to conclusions.
 
I don't. I would have wanted the console to fail if it went with the DRM stuff, but it did not. Obviously you want a system that is inherently anti-consumer to fail because if it does not, that behavior would spread and infect the rest of the industry. And that would then be an industry I would want no part of, since I am a consumer.

Now, that isn't the case. As I said, I no longer want Xbox One to fail because they appropriately responded to consumer criticism and reacted quickly - they deserve far more credit than Sony did in turning the PS3 around early, because Sony was bitter and arrogant about the PS3 for far longer and didn't change near as fast. So half a gen was spent languishing, so-to-speak.

These sorts of things are really simple. Because I buy for games, not systems, I want the industry that is the healthiest for consumers, no matter who is in the lead. If it was Sony that initially went the DRM debacle, I would have wanted the same for them. If it were Nintendo, the same. And if they changed their tune as quickly as Microsoft, I would have then no longer wished that, same as I no longer wish that for XBO.

Fair enough.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I think this speaks more for your preferences for eastern-developed games, which still thrived and dominated on the PS2 but were relegated to a much smaller influence this generation (which the notable exception of Nintendo, but we're not really discussing the Wii Sports and Wii Fits of the world). And I'd still argue that thanks to the rise of indies and digital, we saw much more variety in commercially-viable games this past generation than ever before.

I don't know why you say "we haven't gotten a system again like that since." I'd put the 360 and PS3 up there with the PS2.

And come on, the NES was MUCH more dominant than the PS2.

Heh, you're talking to the same Amir0x who makes fun of anime style games and cannot stand the melodrama of Japanese storytelling. I vastly prefer Western style open ended games vs. the generally more linear style of Japanese games. djtiesto can confirm the many debates I got into him over Western style game design vs. Japanese style game design ;)

But that's all generalizations. During the PS2 gen, eastern games were thriving, yes, but as I said, it was a combination of factors. You use the NES gen, but the variety on PS2 simply demolished what was on that system. By default! NES gen was limited by the technology, whereas PS2's tech allowed much more variety and flexibility in game design (and some genres just weren't thought of yet). Gamecube and Xbox also allowed such things. I am not sure how much NES sold overall, but PS2 and Wii are the two best selling consoles of all time. Not sure how SEGA Master System sold relative to NES, and what percentage of the industry each had at the time though.
 

Vire

Member
My goodness someone really really went off the deep end, didn't they?

like, demented.

You would probably get better mileage out of passive aggressive posting by choosing to highlight and analyze the "demented" posts in question, even though we all know who you are referring to, instead of just doing hit and runs. But you know that, right Stinkles?
Boys boys, settle down, let's be friends.

Frank was having a bad day because someone reminded him he's bald.
 

JaggedSac

Member
So it seems like MS did really have locale related software issues that prohibited them from releasing in some countries? It seems like they have more than enough consoles being produced that could be sent elsewhere since all they are apparently doing now is piling up in stores and being used to create forts for late night workers.
 
So MS took one month (the the busiest month of the year btw) to sell 900K of the X1 in NA while the PS4 sold 1 million in less than 24 hours in NA. If not because of supply constraint the PS4 would sold at least 2 millions in NA easily in December. So with plenty of Xbox in retail store in NA while the PS4 is no where to been seen, that number for X1 is not that impressive tbh.
 
You never know with america. It is xbox territory. We need more time and sales data before jumping to conclusions.

I don't agree with blanked statements like this. America was Nintendo territory. Then it was Sega territory. Then it was Sony territory. Then it was Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Then it was Microsoft territory.

It's constantly evolving. And based on the signs that we're seeing, the demand for the PS4 is LIKELY higher than the Xbox One if you look at the indicating factors that the PS4 sold nearly as much as the Xbox One in a month where it was scarcely available (while the Xbox One seemed to be generally available).

Granted, we won't know the real demand until all three systems are in consistent supply, but the indicators are pointing towards the PS4 right now.

With that said, a lot can change. The combination of Titanfall and Halo alone might well be more commercially-appealing than whatever Sony throws out (inFamous, Drive Club, MLB, The Order, and the huge stable of indie games). Microsoft might come to their senses and turn the Xbox One into an actual DVR, making it a more viable all-in-one box for families. It's still really early.
 

Amir0x

Banned
So it seems like MS did really have locale related software issues that prohibited them from releasing in some countries? It seems like they have more than enough consoles being produced that could be sent elsewhere since all they are apparently doing now is piling up in stores and being used to create forts for late night workers.

They played it strategically smart imo. Consider this: you joke about how stock are 'piling up', and I too have said they've far exceeded demand judging by how it's available everywhere now. But imagine if they would have expanded their launch countries, taking units from the US or UK for example. Now, they would have pushed those units into countries that are traditionally much more hostile to the Xbox (say Japan for example), and then the stock would have REALLY languished. Instead, they were able to supply enough units in the US to be the #1 next-gen console for December. I think that's the only move they had that makes sense. It's good press, you go where you're really wanted, and since most of your features and software are so far aimed at their strongest territories, you have a chance to start a buzz going in that territory that helps build demand into the future. When people get their hands on XBO and say "hey, this is pretty cool, I'm going to tell my friend Bob", you have a chance at getting people to move past the price tag as well.
 

minx

Member
So MS took one month (the the busiest month of the year btw) to sell 900K of the X1 in NA while the PS4 sold 1 million in less than 24 hours in NA. If not because of supply constraint the PS4 would sold at least 2 millions in NA easily in December. So with plenty of Xbox in retail store in NA while the PS4 is no where to been seen, that number for X1 is not that impressive tbh.

I usually never post in on the gaming side because of people like you. Straight up fan boy.
 
But wanting a system to fail just because you disapprove of their (now reversed) policy, is ludicrous.
Why? In my opinion, Microsoft's policies (pre-180) would have been detrimental to the industry as a whole. Why would I want it do to well if I felt that overall it would do more harm than good?
 

Chobel

Member
So MS took one month (the the busiest month of the year btw) to sell 900K of the X1 in NA while the PS4 sold 1 million in less than 24 hours in NA. If not because of supply constraint the PS4 would sold at least 2 millions in NA easily in December. So with plenty of Xbox in retail store in NA while the PS4 is no where to been seen, that number for X1 is not that impressive tbh.

You seem defensive and somewhat desperate. Chill out dude.
 

Amir0x

Banned
You seem defensive and somewhat desperate. Chill out dude.

I think the most amusing part is the assumption PS4 would have sold 2 million in the US alone if they had the stock. That's some mighty impressive imagination :p

Edit: Come to think of it, what is the highest number a console has ever sold in the month of November? I think it was DS, right?
 

Tyrax

Member
I think the most amusing part is the assumption PS4 would have sold 2 million in the US alone if they had the stock. That's some mighty impressive imagination :p

Edit: Come to think of it, what is the highest number a console has ever sold in the month of November? I think it was DS, right?

let them dream
 
Heh, you're talking to the same Amir0x who makes fun of anime style games and cannot stand the melodrama of Japanese storytelling. I vastly prefer Western style open ended games vs. the generally more linear style of Japanese games. djtiesto can confirm the many debates I got into him over Western style game design vs. Japanese style game design ;)

But that's all generalizations. During the PS2 gen, eastern games were thriving, yes, but as I said, it was a combination of factors. You use the NES gen, but the variety on PS2 simply demolished what was on that system. By default! NES gen was limited by the technology, whereas PS2's tech allowed much more variety and flexibility in game design (and some genres just weren't thought of yet). Gamecube and Xbox also allowed such things. I am not sure how much NES sold overall, but PS2 and Wii are the two best selling consoles of all time. Not sure how SEGA Master System sold relative to NES, and what percentage of the industry each had at the time though.

I'm not sure what other conclusion to draw when you say that you prefer the PS2 library because when I go through any list of top games, it's at least half Japanese-developed games. I do appreciate you prompting me to do that because it was a trip down memory lane of forgotten gems like Maximo. So thanks for that!

I wasn't saying that the NES had greater variety than PS2. I said it was more dominant! It had something like 95% of the market share vs roughly 60-65% for the PS2 (it ended up higher but the last few years of its sales where during the next generation when the GC and Xbox were dead).
 

Amir0x

Banned
let them dream

Dream bigger I say! If PS4 had the stock, it would have outsold the combined total of Wii's NPD to date. Prove me wrong NeoGAF.

CouldBeWorse said:
I'm not sure what other conclusion to draw when you say that you prefer the PS2 library because when I go through any list of top games, it's at least half Japanese-developed games. I do appreciate you prompting me to do that because it was a trip down memory lane of forgotten gems like Maximo. So thanks for that!

I wasn't saying that the NES had greater variety than PS2. I said it was more dominant! It had something like 95% of the market share vs roughly 60-65% for the PS2 (it ended up higher but the last few years of its sales where during the next generation when the GC and Xbox were dead).

For me, I think you could say I value variety a lot. I get very bored when only a few types of games dominate the space. I think that's the same reason I love indie games so much, they remind me of the variety of those days. When people were experimenting a lot and not always succeeding, but it was always an adventure when you got games.

Today, there is a great homogenization of the industry... games have almost a checklist they're expected to meet, and if they don't, people somehow value them less. Additionally, the market is more fractured, so in order to get a similar large variety of offerings, you have to buy all the systems instead of just the one and the handheld.
 
Aren't you not allowed to reveal competitor numbers if you have access to NPD?


I'm not sure but I did find it interesting for them to specifically tweet that COD and B4 sold more on Xbox One than the PS4, and specifically say PS4.......I haven't seen either really mention the competition by name, just "competition" instead.....
 

squidyj

Member
I find it amazing how some of you are genuinely pissed about this numbers.. I mean, I get that you may not like what Microsoft has done with the Xbox One, but it MUST NOT fail.

Don't you remember what Sony was like when it thought it could do anything? Have you completely forgotten what they did around the 2005-2008??

COMPETITION IS GOOD. IT'S A MUST!

Stop acting like children and celebrate that both consoles are doing amazingly well! We're the ones that are going to benefit from it.

I wish someone would prop me up and prevent me from failing so i could be 'competetive'
 

A lot of good points that he makes, and I'm in agreement with much of it, but the soda industry isn't exactly comparable to the games industry. There's a variety of reasons for which a decent bit of competitive success for both platforms is in the overall best interest of consumers, chief among them being due to the unique investments and risks that are involved with major, first party game development. I would make the argument that, past a certain point, other industries as an analogy to the games industry lose merit as a point of comparison. And even beyond that, it doesn't always benefit the consumer if the gamers who went with the "wrong" console end up paying for that decision in terms of the quality of third party support, or if it somehow gives the platform owner pause with regards to investment into their first party efforts. If there are to be sacrifices in that regard, then let it be for reasons outside of the fact their product simply isn't selling well enough to justify the investment.

There are times indeed when one platform has every right and claim to rule them all, but I'm not seeing that with the PS4 and Xbox One. I see no legitimate reason for either console to destroy the other so badly that the other one is considered a failure. Contrary to all the PS3 doom and gloom, that platform was far from the failure for Sony that it's often portrayed as being. Sony had some problems as a result of their decisions with the PS3, no doubt that, but in the end the platform performed at such a level that it ended up being to the benefit of the entire industry as a whole. Developers were able to sell more games, PS3 owners can't say they were shortchanged or screwed, both 360 and PS3 owners had a great generation, unless you were a fanboy that wanted total world domination for one or the other side, and hoped to extract pleasure from seeing the other crash and burn.

There's no good that will come from the Xbox One not being a legitimately competitive alternative to the PS4. I believe it to be that promising of a games console and an overall product. That doesn't mean it has to sell neck and neck with the PS4, but it also can't be a sales flop, either, if you get my meaning. The Xbox One, and the potential it has as an overall entertainment device, is exactly the kind of videogame system I want. I also especially like the television features and integration. I love that a videogame console and it's interface is so connected to my TV viewing. I find it extremely cool that I could be watching Rachel Maddow on MSNBC one minute, then with a simple hand gesture or voice command, have it merged or collapsed into my game console experience. A system that tries to be more than just what we've come to expect from a videogame console is precisely what I think a next gen console should be. Because the game side and OS application side are so separate and off to themselves in the systems design, they can both continue to be built upon and upgraded in ways that we've never seen from a videogame console before, because whatever you did on the OS application side would be a major risk to whatever needed to happen on the game side. That's one of the cooler, less talked about parts of the Xbox One that I think a lot of people are really overlooking. There's much increased reason to be excited about what Microsoft has planned for BUILD and what the future, major updates to the Xbox One will be, thanks in large part due to the way it's built with the hypervisor and multiple virtual machines. People may not buy the notion that Microsoft have the right idea with the Xbox One, but I think they do, even if they had to make sacrifices to raw graphics performance to get there. Microsoft, with every console they've released thus far, have taken important steps to push the industry forward and, in my opinion, change it for the better, and Sony has responded to that competition and have accordingly improved their own systems for the better, also making some moves that I'm certain Microsoft haven't ignored. I'd bet anything that if the Xbox 360 didn't find the market that it did, Sony might never have been so aggressive in improving their online services and infrastructure. It may not be anything even close to what it is currently without that competition, because the message would have been sent that there is no significant market for that kind of thing, and so they are just fine staying the current course, which is exactly what would have happened without a meaningful threat from the Xbox 360.

One clear superior option can also be good at times, but I don't think that this is one of those cases. Both the PS4 and Xbox One must be real and serious competitive alternatives to one another, and deserve to be successful. That doesn't mean that they have to be more or less identical sales wise, but they both need to sell quite well, and what's happening so far is very promising. It doesn't matter if the PS4 ends up being a big sales winner, so long as lack of solid sales doesn't become a serious issue for the Xbox One that it impacts the quality of games that come to the platform from both third and first party sources, and it doesn't end up dissuading Microsoft from taking some of the good ideas from the Xbox One and incorporating them into even better future Xbox consoles. Hell, it isn't even a stretch to say that an unsuccessful Xbox One stint could place at risk the Xbox brand as a whole. Now, I know that probably excites some people, but it doesn't excite me at all, and it shouldn't excite gamers or developers.
 
For me, I think you could say I value variety a lot. I get very bored when only a few types of games dominate the space. I think that's the same reason I love indie games so much, they remind me of the variety of those days. When people were experimenting a lot and not always succeeding, but it was always an adventure when you got games.

Today, there is a great homogenization of the industry... games have almost a checklist they're expected to meet, and if they don't, people somehow value them less. Additionally, the market is more fractured, so in order to get a similar large variety of offerings, you have to buy all the systems instead of just the one and the handheld.

You're starting to sound like Dyack. One console future!

I think you're romanticizing the PS2 and are forgetting that it still had some big holes in its lineup that were filled in by the Xbox and Gamecube. There wasn't a quality western RPG that I can remember and the shooters were clear steps down from the competition on Xbox. Not to mention that there weren't comparable games on PS2 for the things that Nintendo did best.

I loved the PS2 but I can't imagine not having an Xbox or Gamecube, especially since they had at least half of my top 10 that generation as exclusives. Of course, I'm dumb and just bought four systems last month (XB1+PS4+Wii U+Zelda 3DSXL) so I'm definitely the exception.
 
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