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[prag16]

There's a union for everything, eh. This shouldn't be hard to resolve though, when the entirety of the union consists of Laura Bailey, Jennifer Hale, Troy Baker, and Nolan North.

(No, I didn't read through most of the thread. Yes, I'm aware a similar joke has probably been made dozens of times by now.)

 

[Nirolak]

Maybe this will lead to less voiced dialogue in games, and a return of more written text?

I'd imagine you'd essentially see a situation where they start casting lots of non-union voice actors and cycled them out as they joined the union.

 

[JPKellams]

Nolan North and Troy Baker are not in the union... Should inform yourself a bit more.

Not sure if you are joking, but Nolan and Troy are both SAG-AFTRA actors.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

They should be happy with having a job and being part of this unique art form.

Oh, this comment is going to be amazing.

If they want to be greedy, the door is right next to them.

You do realize that they are actually fighting back against companies that actually are greedy, right?

Wanting to get paid for your job. How is that a foreign concept to you?

They can take that so-called "talent" somewhere else. I play games to PLAY--not to listen to some B-tier wanna be who couldn't make it in Hollywood.

Video games make more than movies, dude.

Do you also hate cartoons?

"[Video] games are more like cars or books or comics. The creators aren't the focus. The creation is." --Danny O'Dwyer

So you're basically saying the people that make cars, comics, and books shouldn't be paid fairly either. Okay.

I think I see a smudge on your rose-colored glasses. Let me get that for you.

 

[myca77]

At least Zelda won't be delayed further if this strike goes through.

Haven't you heard, Arnie is voicing link, and he's a member of SAG, that game is doomed I tell ya.

Spoiler

stupid joke of course

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I never said that artists should not be compensated for their work.

Yes you did.

 

[foxuzamaki]

That feel when you want to support and also for them to win, but also now worrying about 2 games, one coming december 4th and if they're done recording.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm unfamiliar with the subject, so how well-established is the union for composers? SAG is a pretty serious deal, and if they wanted to flex their muscle - this could snowball into games becoming a no-go zone for actors who also work on film & TV.

When AFM happened, the industry used Nashville (in a right to work state) to get around the problem along with London and lots of new composers: http://variety.com/2015/music/news/...ted-video-game-composer-exclusive-1201400889/

 

[Ianan]

I dunno man, I feel any increased wages should be going to coders/artists. These voice actors shouldn't be comparing themselves to Hollywood actors.

Edit: Point went right over my head, ok I can support this now.

 

[mjontrix]

The thing is that this will essentially kill English Dubs for Jap games since it'll probably be cheaper just to license the Japanese voices.

So in that case go for it!

Maybe Atlus will finally have a reason to give us Jap dub VA in the English releases!

 

[Nirolak]

The thing is that this will essentially kill English Dubs for Jap games since it'll probably be cheaper just to license the Japanese voices.

So in that case go for it!

Maybe Atlus will finally have a reason to give us Jap dub VA in the English releases!

A lot of these types of games already record non-union which is why the English voice actors are not in the credits.

 

[Two Words]

Do these people expect to get higher compensation than the average programmer/artist on the game?

 

[t26]

Finally someone who understands my point.

Developers > Voice Actors

But does anyone buy a game because of a programmer or designer? If I told you Nolan North isn't returning for Uncharted 4, there will be people boycotting the game. But if I told you the lead programmer and designer from Uncharted 3 aren't returning for Uncharted 4, would that influence anything? Even losing Amy Hennig won't have as much impact as losing Nolan North.

 

[Version 3.0]

This isn't really that true anymore. There's very few movie stars left, and animated movies often use character actors and minor TV stars. The only animated studio known for casting stars was Dreamworks and they didn't really do any better than their competitors, and in the recent years has moved away from that.

Tom Cruise or Will Smith make or break a movie, but not many other actors have that cache.

I don't mean "star power" or celebrity draw. I mean bad actors generally means a bad movie. Bad voice actors does not equal a bad game.

 

[Nanashrew]

I dunno man, I feel any increased wages should be going to coders/artists. These voice actors shouldn't be comparing themselves to Hollywood actors.

I believe a sentiment everyone shares is that they all should have better benefits and we'll all support them when they start fighting for it. Right now none of them are unionized and many refuse to even unionize and speak out against bad labor and unfair treatment from their employers/companies/businesses. Voice actors are unionized and can fight for these things.

 

[Vex_]

Hey, if this means less of the same damn people acting in every damn game. I'm for it. This may bring in NEW talent otherwise untapped.


BUT ON THE OTHER HAND... I do respect them for standing up for themselves if they feel they've been wronged. Just... I mean damn. Certain actors are fucking everywhere.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

But does anyone buy a game because of a programmer or designer? If I told you Nolan North isn't returning for Uncharted 4, there will be people boycotting the game. But if I told you the lead programmer and designer from Uncharted 3 aren't returning for Uncharted 4, would that influence anything? Even losing Amy Hennig won't have as much impact as losing Nolan North.

People would say this, but it probably wouldn't really happen except for a select few people. That's exactly what people said about Hayter and MGSV, and it's already shipped three million units. People playing video games will most likely notice a dip in game play quality before they notice that someone else is voicing the character. They might not say "What you mean Designer X isn't working on the game? Then I'm not buying it!" but they would probably notice that the game doesn't have the same feel, and that would put them off from buying future installments.

 

[Illucio]

You're missing the point here. Try again.

No point missed. Video game voice actors are paid extremely well for their work, unlike movie stars who have a name to themselves, let alone movies are dependent on actors to actually be made, while video games are dependent on developers, artists, and coders more than actual voice actors.

A lot of the workers who actually work on making video games at big publishers normally don't get paid as well unless they're in higher management, they're pay is very low mostly because of many people are trying to get into the field.

What these voice actors probably don't know is that voicing for video games is in huge demand by actors themselves because they pay extremely well. So if they're argument is that game companies are making millions they should be paid more to compensate, even though they're pay is extraordinary well? I simply don't agree, hell go on strike I'll take your job instead.

Long story short this strike won't be effective because there's more actors that are willing to take the role, and the pay they want doesn't warrant the demand nor the work their putting in. Give the money to the people who get paid less and who's work actually warrants the pay raise.

Do these people expect to get higher compensation than the average programmer/artist on the game?

Voice actors are typically paid by contract unless their voice work is required on a regular basis, in these instances it's not rare for a contract with a huge sign on bonus with a hourly rate, very rare though.
Their contracts are just until their work is completed, and sometimes includes additional dialogue for trailers or game promotion.

But the short amount of time they work they get paid equal or well more to what most programmers/artists make on a game. Granted once their work is done they have to find more work, that's the conundrum with voice actors. They get paid EXTREMELY well, but they have to keep finding work, and could go weeks without finding anything but that's mostly because most voice acting work is a highly desirable job by actors because of it's large pay.

 

[Quavillion]

Yes you did.

Please specify when.

 

[PdotMichael]

But does anyone buy a game because of a programmer or designer? If I told you Nolan North isn't returning for Uncharted 4, there will be people boycotting the game. But if I told you the lead programmer and designer from Uncharted 3 aren't returning for Uncharted 4, would that influence anything? Even losing Amy Hennig won't have as much impact as losing Nolan North.

Looking at MGS4.

No, you don't have really an argument here.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

No point missed.

Yes you did. Now figure out why and you'll get an A. You have two more tries.

 

[The Lamonster]

I think their 'demands' are quite reasonable. I'd support this.

 

[myca77]

I'm not for this strike actually, voice acting for video games is considered by actors not only the most easiest job there is, but the most steady with the best pay.
You have a lot of lines to say, but at the end of the day you did a ton of hours and made a lot of money. Unless you we're paid by contract, but if you we're paid by contract you get even more money.


To be honest I believe a lot of the artists and coders should be getting pay raises, not the actors.

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Yes you did. Now figure out why and you'll get an A. You have two more tries.

You're doing a pretty shitty job at voicing your argument, and you're being condescending for no reason on top of it. If anyone needs to try again, it's you.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

You're doing a pretty shitty job at voicing your argument, and you're being condescending for no reason on top of it. If anyone needs to try again, it's you.

If you think I'm doing a pretty shitty job voicing my argument you should the rest of this thread. But nobody is saying that coders and artists and writers and everybody else shouldn't get pay raises. But if the VAs of the industry could pull through than the rest of the industry would follow. They need to unionize.

 

[myca77]

No point missed. Video game voice actors are paid extremely well for their work, unlike movie stars who have a name to themselves, let alone movies are dependent on actors to actually be made, while video games are dependent on developers, artists, and coders more than actual voice actors.

A lot of the workers who actually work on making video games at big publishers normally don't get paid as well unless they're in higher management, they're pay is very low mostly because of many people are trying to get into the field.

What these voice actors probably don't know is that voicing for video games is in huge demand by actors themselves because they pay extremely well. So if they're argument is that game companies are making millions they should be paid more to compensate, even though they're pay is extraordinary well? I simply don't agree, hell go on strike I'll take your job instead.

Long story short this strike won't be effective because there's more actors that are willing to take the role, and the pay they want doesn't warrant the demand nor the work their putting in. Give the money to the people who get paid less and who's work actually warrants the pay raise.




Voice actors are typically paid by contract unless their voice work is required on a regular basis, in these instances it's not rare for a contract with a huge sign on bonus with a hourly rate, very rare though.
Their contracts are just until their work is completed, and sometimes includes additional dialogue for trailers or game promotion.

But the short amount of time they work they get paid equal or well more to what most programmers/artists make on a game. Granted once their work is done they have to find more work, that's the conundrum with voice actors. They get paid EXTREMELY well, but they have to keep finding work, and could go weeks without finding anything but that's mostly because most voice acting work is a highly desirable job by actors because of it's large pay.

I'm sorry you are still spouting a lot of nonsense that leads me to re-iterate, you have no idea what you are talking about in regards to voice acting in games.

Edit to clarify and not seem as rude.

I don't see how you can claim that voice actors "are paid extremely well" unless you know the standard rates most actors charge. Even if you had those rates you may think that's pretty good for a day's work. But most actors aren't working five days a week, most are lucky if they can land a couple of jobs each month. Doesn't seem as much now does it.

Voice acting isn't "easy". It can be strenuous, stressful and fatiguing. One of the reasons you hear the same actors in games a lot is because there is a small pool of actors who can turn up with no prep, get told they are a drunken overweight elf with narcolepsy and roll with it to get the job done on time and on budget.

I'm sure there are many up and coming actors who'd love some of that video game money, but most up and coming actors just want to pay the rent. Believe me there are a lot of famous and not so famous actors who refuse to do video games. Sometimes out of a general disinterest, sometimes out of a general disliking and some times because they don't like the stress of having to perform with no prep and little time to find themselves in the character.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

If you think I'm doing a pretty shitty job voicing my argument you should the rest of this thread.

I don't really have any interest in reading through this whole thread, but even if you have voiced your opinion more thoroughly earlier, it doesn't really give you any right to act the way you're acting now to someone else. As of this part of the conversation, you're just being condescending and rude. You should either reiterate your position, or bow out of the conversation if you don't feel like doing so. Sitting around being a snarky jerk isn't doing the thread, or the conversation any favors.

You may even be right, but you're sure as hell not doing a very good job debating that person and showing them that you are.

 

[Dominic_Shade]

I believe a sentiment everyone shares is that they all should have better benefits and we'll all support them when they start fighting for it. Right now none of them are unionized and many refuse to even unionize and speak out against bad labor and unfair treatment from their employers/companies/businesses. Voice actors are unionized and can fight for these things.

I know this is one I share. I'm happy to support the actors in their current circumstance (and it's a really easy decision after having a look at the sort of conditions that video game publishers are proposing). When the time comes to do with the same for video game contractors, programmers, artists, etc, I'll be right there with them.

The reality is, the SAG-AFTRA have a golden opportunity to improve working conditions for their members thanks to the expiration of their contract in December 2014. This is their moment now. But it's my hope that an industry can be formed where video game layoff stories like these will no longer occur, so I hope the other video game employees get their turn.

 

[Yoshi]

While I think everyone should be paid apropiately, I don't agree with their slogan all too much, because the only way performance matters to me is that it is usually shit and I prefer almost every game without voice acting.

 

[UberTag]

Good on them. Voice actors don't get paid nearly enough, and I support them without question in this matter. I wish them the best of luck.

They don't get paid nearly enough.
They're also not going to win this fight.
Instead we're going to wind up with games with shit voice acting.

In a perfect world, AAA trash like Call of Duty would cost $100 plus season's pass annually and both developers AND voice actors would get paid what they're due. But that won't happen. Developers will work 80-hour weeks and janitors and theater actors with no voice training will get pulled in to replace the quality talent that refuse to work for what they've traditionally gotten paid. While AAA trash will continue to be sold for $60... ($40 in six weeks if it's an Ubisoft game)... $90 in Canada.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I don't really have any interest in reading through this whole thread, but even if you have voiced your opinion more thoroughly earlier, it doesn't really give you any right to act the way you're acting now to someone else. As of this part of the conversation, you're just being condescending and rude. You should either reiterate your position, or bow out of the conversation if you don't feel like doing so. Sitting around being a snarky jerk isn't doing the thread, or the conversation any favors.

I've stated my support and arguments many times, but going OT and saying how condescending and rude I am has nothing to do with anything and you're not doing any favors either. So I'll say it again: VAs are important in many industries and if they feel like they aren't compensated enough for their work (which has been said many times isn't as easy as people make it out to be) they have the full on right to unionize. So should the rest of the games industry. Nobody is saying Voice actors shouldn't be treated as higher teir as the rest of the games industry. What we are (or I am) saying is that publishers are greedy and shouldn't treat their workforce like crap. That hashtag in the title is true performance does matter.

They don't get paid nearly enough.
They're also not going to win this fight.
Instead we're going to wind up with games with shit voice acting.

In a perfect world, AAA trash like Call of Duty would cost $100 plus season's pass annually and both developers AND voice actors would get paid what they're due. But that won't happen. Developers will work 80-hour weeks and janitors and theater actors with no voice training will get pulled in to replace the quality talent that refuse to work for what they've traditionally gotten paid. While AAA trash will continue to be sold for $60... ($40 in six weeks if it's an Ubisoft game)... $90 in Canada.

Companies also know that nobody is going to pay anymore than $60 up front for a new game. That's why that praise didn't raise this generation. If they can work out something with the Union, that doesn't mean they're going to pass the cost along to the consumer because their already going as high as is and anymore would do more harm than good.

 

[Quavillion]

You do realize that they are actually fighting back against companies that actually are greedy, right?

Wanting to get paid for your job. How is that a foreign concept to you?

But they are getting paid.

Do you also hate cartoons?

I love anime.

So you're basically saying the people that make cars, comics, and books shouldn't be paid fairly either. Okay.

Huh...? I do believe you should take a second, reread your post and think. Give yourself some time to reflect on what you posted.

 

[kyser73]

People should be helping coders & other development workers to start a campaign to unionise instead of saying 'VAs are greedy and studios should use scab labour instead.'

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Does the video game industry really make 3 times as much Hollywood ?
I mean if you are just counting box office part it should be true but movies have many more ways to make money .
And if your going to lump ever thing together for games some game that bring in a lot of money don't even use that much voice acting .
Maybe they should get paid more i don't know but i don't see things being so clear cut .
Not to mention that movies depend more on there actors more than games do .

 

[RE_Player]

The whole video games make more than Hollywood movies is a bit disingenuous right? I would love to see an actual comparison of say a large video game's revenue versus a movie which ends up having a longer tail when accounting for the various ways it ends up being distributed and sold.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I've stated my support and arguments many times, but going OT and saying how condescending and rude I am has nothing to do with anything and you're not doing any favors either. So I'll say it again: VAs are important in many industries and if they feel like they aren't compensated enough for their work (which has been said many times isn't as easy as people make it out to be) they have the full on right to unionize. So should the rest of the games industry. Nobody is saying Voice actors shouldn't be treated as higher teir as the rest of the games industry. What we are (or I am) saying is that publishers are greedy and shouldn't treat their workforce like crap. That hashtag in the title is true performance does matter.

Actually I think I did the thread a favor by convincing you to reiterate your point, which actually added something of value to the thread.

This is a way better argument then "Nope, you're wrong. Try again."

I appreciate you sharing it, because it actually raises good points, even if they are only reiterated points from what you've previously said.

 

[Nanashrew]

No point missed. Video game voice actors are paid extremely well for their work, unlike movie stars who have a name to themselves, let alone movies are dependent on actors to actually be made, while video games are dependent on developers, artists, and coders more than actual voice actors.

A lot of the workers who actually work on making video games at big publishers normally don't get paid as well unless they're in higher management, they're pay is very low mostly because of many people are trying to get into the field.

What these voice actors probably don't know is that voicing for video games is in huge demand by actors themselves because they pay extremely well. So if they're argument is that game companies are making millions they should be paid more to compensate, even though they're pay is extraordinary well? I simply don't agree, hell go on strike I'll take your job instead.

Long story short this strike won't be effective because there's more actors that are willing to take the role, and the pay they want doesn't warrant the demand nor the work their putting in. Give the money to the people who get paid less and who's work actually warrants the pay raise.

Voice actors in general are not paid very well at all and often have second jobs to make ends meet. that's why they say that if you're going to be a voice actor, you have to have passion and love for doing it. Very few voice actors are paid a lot of money for their talents.

Meanwhile Hollywood actors cost far, far more to have record their lines, probably far more than a premier voice actor like Troy Baker or Nolan North. The average voice actor is nowhere near paid enough or treated well enough, so people like Matthew Mercer, Khary Payton, Charlie Adler, Grey DeLisle, Steve Blum, Phill Lamarr, Wil Wheaton, Todd Haberkorn, Kari Wahlgren, Jennifer Hale, Sean Schemmel, Erin Fitzgerald, Dee Bradley Baker, Tara Strong, Roger Craig Smith, David Hayter, Josh Keaton, Kyle Hebert and so much more. These are big names in voice acting voting yes to the strike and wanting fair benefits in video games.

 

[Quavillion]

If Half-Life 3 is being delay due to Gordon Freeman's voice actor not getting paid enough, I will personally open a Kickstarter campaign to get him his hard earned cash.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

The whole video games make more than Hollywood movies is a bit disingenuous right? I would love to see an actual comparison of say a large video game's revenue versus a movie which ends up having a longer tail when accounting for the various ways it ends up being distributed and sold.

Box office revenue in 2013 was $35.9 billion

Game revenue in 2013 was $70.4 billion

I'd imagine that gap has widened since then.

 

[UberTag]

Companies also know that nobody is going to pay anymore than $60 up front for a new game. That's why that price didn't raise this generation. If they can work out something with the Union, that doesn't mean they're going to pass the cost along to the consumer because their already going as high as is and anymore would do more harm than good.

I think that's a misnomer. I think there are PLENTY of consumers that will pay more than $60 to get their AAA game "Day 1" with all of their friends and couldn't possibly go without. Plenty of Canadians will gladly pay 40% more to buy the same game now than they did two years ago because they're stupid and don't know about E3 pre-order discounts.

What I do believe is that there's exorbitant retail pressure against publishers to NOT raise prices above $60 US. Because they know they'll be the ones on the hook for the initial cost increase. And frankly, with digital sales as robust as they are, publishers ought to tell retail to shove it. Because, let's face it, publishers have told the rest of us to shove it and they're about to tell the voice actors to shove it. Why should retailers be spared?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Box office revenue in 2013 was $35.9 billion

Game revenue in 2013 was $70.4 billion

I'd imagine that gap has widened since then.

So it not counting blu ray and dvd sales ,streaming , renting or tv deals .
It really don't make sense to compare stuff like that IMO.

 

[Illucio]

Does the video game industry really make 3 times as much Hollywood ?
I mean if you are just counting box office part it should be true but movies have many more ways to make money .
And if your going to lump ever thing together for games some game that bring in a lot of money don't even use that much voice acting .

The industry's profit are that big, but also do note that video game industry also includes mobile games and computer/social games that makes up for half the industry, in which most of those games don't even have voice acting to begin with, or their just short lines from the developers themselves. Also do note the game industry profits is make more than half of it's profits from mobile/social games.

The reason why companies still make AAA titles is because there is still money to be made in that other half of gaming. It's like saying there's no point in movies because there's TV shows even though movies still make a ton of money and vice versa.

The voice actors should be fighting for better working conditions and solely that. Any argument for pay is highly ridiculous.

So it not counting blu ray and dvd sales ,streaming , renting or tv deals .
It really don't make sense to compare stuff like that IMO.

There's also that too.

 

[mgs2master2]

#MisspelledHashtags

#Mispeeledhashtags

 

[cartman414]

People should be helping coders & other development workers to start a campaign to unionise instead of saying 'VAs are greedy and studios should use scab labour instead.'

I've been all for this idea! Just needs to spread about the industry for realsies before it can become a thing.

 

[myca77]

Box office revenue in 2013 was $35.9 billion

Game revenue in 2013 was $70.4 billion

I'd imagine that gap has widened since then.

That doesn't include money from home sales, rentals, Netflix, VOD or broadcast. And the games revenue covers all aspects of gaming. I'd love to see how gaming stacks up against film and TV when all their sources of revenue are accounted for. I still reckon gaming would give a good show, but probably be beaten.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

So it not counting blu ray and dvd sales ,streaming , renting or tv deals .
It really don't make sense to compare stuff like that IMO.

Hollywoo accounting is pretty weird and shady anyway and these were the only stats I can find. Plus box office is pretty much what matters according seemingly everyone in the industry. Otherwise we would've gotten sequels to Scott Pilgrim and Dredd by now. If I had to speculate, Blu-ray, DVD, and rental sales are shrinking markets, and studios don't make that much money off of streaming and TV deals. If they did all those blockbusters like Transformers and Catching Fire wouldn't be taken off Netflix and the end of this month.

 

[UberTag]

The voice actors should be fighting for better working conditions and solely that. Any argument for pay is highly ridiculous.

They have no clue who they're dealing with. Game publishers are poisonous and greedy and place no value over what they bring to the table in talent versus what they could get done cheaply elsewhere. They're also exercising extremely poor judgment in timing with the Canadian dollar so weak and plenty of voice actors in Vancouver and Toronto who will gladly take voice acting gigs that go up north to get done cheaply.

And I say this as an ardent voice acting sympathizer.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The industry's profit are that big, but also do note that video game industry also includes mobile games and computer/social games that makes up for half the industry, in which most of those games don't even have voice acting to begin with, or their just short lines from the developers themselves. Also do note the game industry profits is make more than half of it's profits from mobile/social games.

The reason why companies still make AAA titles is because there is still money to be made in that other half of gaming. It's like saying there's no point in movies because there's TV shows even though movies still make a ton of money and vice versa.

The voice actors should be fighting for better working conditions and solely that. Any argument for pay is highly ridiculous.

I never said they should not fight for better wages .
Everyone has the right to that but saying games make more than hollywood don't mean much if you don't break down certain things .

Hollywoo accounting is pretty weird and shady anyway and these were the only stats I can find. Plus box office is pretty much what matters according seemingly everyone in the industry. Otherwise we would've gotten sequels to Scott Pilgrim and Dredd by now.

No the box office is not the only thing that matter to the industry saying that is foolish .

 

[silvermember]

Box office revenue in 2013 was $35.9 billion

Game revenue in 2013 was $70.4 billion

I'd imagine that gap has widened since then.

Valid comparison.

How much does a movie ticket cost vs an average video game?does your number include DVD sales, TV licensing deals?

 

[myca77]

They have no clue who they're dealing with. Game publishers are poisonous and greedy and place no value over what they bring to the table in talent versus what they could get done cheaply elsewhere. They're also exercising extremely poor judgment in timing with the Canadian dollar so weak and plenty of voice actors in Vancouver and Toronto who will gladly take voice acting gigs that go up north to get done cheaply.

And I say this as an ardent voice acting sympathizer.

Fortunately the publishers won't be able to outsource the VA to a third world country for a tenth of the price. I bet some have thought about it though

One thing you can't under-estimate though is the lure of hollywood. Amongst other reasons (like there being a load of actors about and a number of good facilities) why dialog is mainly recorded in LA, the writers, producers and creative leads love that week in the hollywood studio with the actors, feels like you're in the movies If the publishers take this away from them some toys will get thrown out of the pram.