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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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In reference to the Youtube time stamp weirdness of the video.
https://gist.github.com/klaufir/d1e694c064322a7fbc15
https://gist.github.com/klaufir/d1e694c064322a7fbc15
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
It is banned here, at insofar as links get rightfully replaced with ****'s
Veritigo_X
Member
Any translation out there of the documents the Malaysian crash investigators had to sign for the black box?
https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/491371657052053504/photo/1
https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/491371657052053504/photo/1
Partial Gamification
Banned
Not translated but it looks like copies of one document. It appears to be a formal documentation of the transfer of the flight data recorder and the audio from the cockpit. There is mention of the ICAO and I'm thinking an outline of the investigation; Russia wanted the International Civil Aviation Authority to oversee the investigation, rather than the host Country (Ukraine). This would have acted against the claim the Donetsk People's Republic is laying on the land.
They'll receive the (deserved) shit end of the stick from the world, not only the West. Funny that after all the shit they cause they still find ways to think they're the victims. Persecution complex is strong in Russia.
I would love to know how many journalists from RT have resigned so far this year after hearing about the one that resigned 2 days or so ago.
Partial Gamification
Banned
I'm not certain the Russian people are deserving of the corruption at higher levels. Russia has a rich history and culture that has historically been measuring up against Western Europe. Putin is too ex-KGB in his governance and worldview, and his cronies are mostly crooks.
Azure Dream
Member
rigfizzelopeguss
Banned
It's more than disturbing, it's dangerous. It's waging (dis)information warfare from directly inside western democracies, just by existing it makes a mockery of the media, a free media which played a critical part in finishing the Soviet Union during the Cold War.
I think convincing Russians of anything is a lost cause at this point. The population at large has made their bed with Putin and no amount of evidence to suggest any wrongdoing will work. The best one can hope for is that they eventually wise up further down the line.
Any investigation would be for the rest of the world. The goal should be to try and force Russia to leave Ukraine alone so it can stabilize and hopefully eventually prosper. Crimea is a lost cause, I doubt Russia will be willing to hand it back no matter what, but hopefully the rest of Ukraine can be left intact.
petran79
Banned
even if they didnt it, they'll most likely take advantage of it.
and for the wrong reasons I assure you.
which is equally worrying and also defiling the victim's memories.
unfortunately western media are equally disappointing as russian media, while social media lack professionalism and analysis to be taken seriously
SkeptiMism
Member
Sorry, late reply but I was sleeping.
Anyway: What?
I have no clue whatsoever how you read it like that. I was simply countering jimi_dini's ridiculous position that it doesn't make sense that the separatists shot the plane down.
Next time don't be so quick to jump on such accusations please.
edit:
A good article, and quite worrying indeed.
Those comments too..
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Looks like CNN's Diana Magnay is buying some of the Russian media propaganda.
As much as they may be in the wrong on events that include Russia, those that don't include Russia and include the US, UK, France etc they often tell a more honest story than western media. When it come to Syria, Gaza etc.
It's easy to give them a bashing at times like this though.
MisterFalcon
Member
Like all their 'rebels gassed themselves in Ghouta' stories from Russia ?
But that involves Russia, so they might be lying.
I'm saying when it doesn't involve them, they might be more truthful.
Like when we were lied to by western media, blaming Assad for gassing citizens in Syria, when it probably wasn't.
Russia are questioning why it was seen moving through Ukrainian held territory. That just makes the whole idea it went into Russia seem stupid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0
This is apaprently it making it's way back through Russia though... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MduT109qfP0
You could go either way with this.
You could go either way with this.
where are the 18?
Gonna assume some bodies were unrecoverable and nobody was intentionally left behind/transported elsewhere.
Possible, but I heard reports that all but three bodies were recovered
Oh hey, some of germanies biggest companies are bumbing at the door of the EU and yell at them that there should be no sanctions against russia, because "in an economy war against russia everybody will lose". I imagine similiar things happen in other countries that export a lot to russia. One could just hope that the EU somehow ignores the pledges.
source: http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/so...t-vor-sanktionen-gegen-russland-a-982235.html
source: http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/so...t-vor-sanktionen-gegen-russland-a-982235.html
FreedomFighter
Member
Oh boy. You shouldn't have went there.
I agree with you though.
Anywho, I'm waiting for yesterday's State Dept. press briefing to go up. The transcript was a little suspect on this issue as far as presenting evidence was concerned... I want to see the video.
They won't. This is the boomerang effect of those sanctions. If EU passes anything, it will just be softball. Nobody from the business elite in EU wants real sectoral sanctions in Russia. Isolating Russia isn't going to happen either, that's just impossible.
Necromanti
Member
I wouldn't call the Syrian sources part of the "Western media", necessarily.
I went from having a casual suspicion that Russia may have been more responsible than one may have initially thought, but they're really doing a good job minimizing any self-incrimination to the point of it almost being comical. I guess that explains the utterly bizarre news reports and conspiracy theories originating in the media about the incident in Russia; it's hard to spin the truth today with so many potential sources of evidence. I mean, even with balancing the anti- and pro-Russian reporting, the slant is becoming more and more one-sided.
One's biases may lead one to suspect Russia prematurely, but there would be no way to rule out Russian involvement or ignore the high probability of their involvement without bias.
Germany has the blood of all 298 people on them as much as Russia does. Merkel has consistently played the puppet role of Putin since the beginning always delaying sanctions etc saying give them more time to show they are serious about deescalating.
Started that crap when it was just Ak47s and continued the same song and dance as it became rocket launchers, apcs, and tanks
CRAZY theory that supports most of the claims of both sides:
MH17 after exiting west Ukraine and entered separatist territory was followed by an Su25.
Separatists saw BOTH on the radar and thought it was a fighter following a cargo? plane.(those audio leaks imply that).
They shot one of the two(randomly? or they thought they shot both?) and it happened to be the MH17.
MH17 after exiting west Ukraine and entered separatist territory was followed by an Su25.
Separatists saw BOTH on the radar and thought it was a fighter following a cargo? plane.(those audio leaks imply that).
They shot one of the two(randomly? or they thought they shot both?) and it happened to be the MH17.
No. Just no.
Back in the 20th Century this was called Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. Now it's just 'economic sensibility'.
I'm not really sure why the Su25 would be following a civil plane flying at 10km, but I think it's quite likely that there had been flight activity on that day, and after missing missile lock a number of times, the rebels finally found a slower moving target that they could latch on to and fired. It would fit well with the Kremlin's remarks that there was a fighter jet and this is all Ukraine's fault for their military escalation. (they'd know, either because they provide intelligence to the militants, or they interrogated the persons shooting the missile)
Right you are.
Even in germany Merkels doing nothing stand is frowned upon. She didn't actually do much while being cancellor, just offical duties and telling people to wait. This at the very least prevented her from making any big mistakes that could've get her out of office, but it''s really sickening. It doesen't help that during her time a lot of big politicans somehow vanished in scandals (over 20 alone from her own party).
And now we have a minister of defense who want to make the Bundeswehr more family friendly, with nicer rooms and ignores actually conflicts most of the time. She was two terms the family minster of germany, and somebody thought it would be a good idea to give her the ministry of defense.
Thing is, Merkel is not Putin's puppet alone, Schröder was more of that actually. He even became head of Gazprom as soon as his term ended. Merkel plays puppet for Putin, Obama AND Xi Jinping. She is always descriped as strong woman who has big power in europe, but she is just, because she don't get on anybodys big shoes.Back in the 20th Century this was called Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. Now it's just 'economic sensibility'.
http://www.ibtimes.com/ukrainian-military-jet-shot-down-russian-air-air-missile-official-1630996
1 day before this incident, Ukraine said that one of their air force jets was shot down by an air-to-air missile.
Aren't the Russian's now trying to suggest that a Ukrainian airforce jet was spotted near MH17, therefore giving favourable/sympathetic media a couple of talking points:
1. The Ukrainians could have shot the plane down thinking it was something else
2. The rebels were aiming at a Ukrainian military target and MH17 got in the way (making it seem like they were aiming at the right target all along).
Got to love that boneheaded, stupid misinformation...
1. The Ukrainians could have shot the plane down thinking it was something else
2. The rebels were aiming at a Ukrainian military target and MH17 got in the way (making it seem like they were aiming at the right target all along).
Got to love that boneheaded, stupid misinformation...
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The Fed and BoE are intstructing their banks to get their houses in order wet Russia. Usually that is a prelude to economic sanctions and Russia being put on America's shit list. BNP Paribas just settled for $7bn for getting on the wrong side of the shit list so I can assure you that banks are taking it seriously.
If Russia are excluded from international finance oy means they will need to raid foreign currency reserves to roll corporate debt over meaning significantly less money for weapons.
The Germans, French and Italians need to take a goof long look at themselves and decided whether economic growth at any cost is really the road they want to go down. I have no doubt that excluding Russia from international finance will damage the City and the UK more than anywhere else but it is still the right thing to do. Apparently Number 10 and the White House also do.
The UK is finally opening an inquiry into the Alexander Litvenenko death, presumably as a two fingered salute to the Russians. Took long enough.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28416532
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28416532
Source?
Back in the 20th Century this was called Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. Now it's just 'economic sensibility'.
Yeah, this was my thought too. But when German chancellors are retiring as board members in children companies of Gazprom what can one expect?
My only hope is that after they will sabotage any real sanctions against Russia maybe German leaders will at list stop giving moral lessons to the other European countries. (which they kind of stopped anyhow once the elections were won, but there is always time for the next elections)
Back in the 20th Century this was called Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. Now it's just 'economic sensibility'.
With all due respect, that is an utterly inappropriate comparison.
^From the same source
Based on this my speculation is that the missile hit the tail (or close to the tail) of the plane and that would also explain the plane not exploding immediately, but being out of control and diving towards the earth and disintegrated because of the speed before hitting the ground (which will explain the large crash site).
If they cut out the parts hit by the missile they are really insane.
Based on this my speculation is that the missile hit the tail (or close to the tail) of the plane and that would also explain the plane not exploding immediately, but being out of control and diving towards the earth and disintegrated because of the speed before hitting the ground (which will explain the large crash site).
If they cut out the parts hit by the missile they are really insane.
Some guy said that they showed it on CNN (dunno, didn't watch CNN) and that it was done to see if people were trapped underneath.
Though that would work for the cockpit being sawed in half, but not the tailfin likely.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Indeed, they'll just say they had to cut parts of the plane to remove bodies.
And that's fine as long as all the parts are still there and in a similar state as they have been found.
Nicktendo86
Member
Yeah, just a pure coincidence that it happens to be parts probably hit by the missile which would have residue/evidence directly implicating russion munitions, nothing to see here.
Opus Angelorum
Member
"We lost them amongst the confusion and adverse weather"
EDIT
France with their impeccable timing:
BBC said:
"The track carrying the plane parts drove by mistake through a car wash and every substance was washed out."
Wow. Great job, Hollande.
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