That "Asia Times" story conforms to your standards for reliable reporting?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
- Start date
- Status
That "Asia Times" story conforms to your standards for reliable reporting?
Gemüsepizza
Member
You don't know how law works, do you? Nobody cares about what you "believe". The international community can't act on your "belief", they want and need proof. Which there isn't yet.
Your ignorance is what is pissing people off. I know you'll just ignore this post like the others calling you out. Ignorance is bless I guess.
(there is evidence)
(we directly tracked the missile being shot from pro-russian separatist territory)
(there is no dispute about where the missile came from, or where the plane was shot down in)
(there is also no dispute about who controls the territory, because it is the pro-russian separatists shooting at the investigators who tried to come in to actually investigate the site)
(therefore the only argument left is how the separatists got these Russian missile systems in the first place)
(the hilarious part of this only remaining argument is that it really only has one plausible answer, but we get to watch them squirm and pretend otherwise. It's comedy gold)
(PLEASE DON'T RUIN MY FUN THIS IS TOO HILARIOUS)
Gemüsepizza;121795123 said:
It is there and in the court of international opinion there is already a verdict.
GUILTY AS CHARGED MOTHER F'ER!!!
This is a wake-up call for Europe, warns Obama as U.S. President calls Malaysian plane disaster an 'outrage of unspeakable proportions'
Promised to ensure that 'the truth is out' over how it happened
Downing Street said it's 'likely' MH17 was 'shot down by separatist missile'
UK says it is 'clear' that Russian-backed separatists to blame
US and EU under pressure to tighten economic noose on Moscow
Attack has power to unite Europe to take a tougher line against Putin
David Cameron held emergency talks in Downing Street this morning
'Fence sitting' EU leaders like Merkel under pressure to increase sanctions
Moscow will find it harder to supply rebel forces in Donetsk, east Ukraine
Isolation of Russian-backed Ukrainian rebels strengthens Kiev government
Impact will be felt on 2016 US presidential election and Clinton's chances
Any sanctions on Russia will spark response from Kremlin against EU
Moscow likely to 'pick off' smaller EU states by turning off gas supplies
Prince William says 'words cannot do justice to our sense of loss'
\
http://www.*****************/news/article-2697096/Putin-facing-global-isolation-West-vents-fury-downing-MH17-Russian-backed-rebel-forces-Ukraine.html
Why would the Ukrainians shoot down the plane? The rebels don't have any aircraft. Unless your implying they were trying to frame them?
Midnight Phoenix
Member
They not allowed to work normally there. No one except Russian journalists can go whenever they want and photo/video. It is like it was in Crimea, where Russian soldiers destroyed cameras or takes out memory cards and destroy them with knife. But as Russia will keep DNR to create buffer zone, it is more complicated, as there is lawlessness and if you get killed, because some one from puppets don't like your face, no one will be punished.
I post several pages ago video from Russian tv, that stated about shut down Ukrainian AN, that in real was Boing.
Yes there's just a 50/50 chance. A russian-made missile fired from deep inside rebel territory, could be anyone. Rebels have been shooting down planes like it's open season and downed 2 just in the last week, while the ukrainians have never shot down anything and have no reason to do it since the rebels don't even have any planes, but maybe they were just bored that day. The plane was coming from western Ukraine and had to be monitored all the way by the ukrainian authorities, but they just decided to shoot it down when it entered rebel territory for some reason.
Really just one word against the other. Really a shame that the investigation can't go on eh?
Gemüsepizza;121795123 said:
Actually this has nothing to do with the law at all. This is all politics, and new sanctions are also politics, they don't need to "prove" anything at all beyond convincing their own population that it's in their interest to pursue sanctions. Which is pretty fortunate because you'll never get your proof.
I don't think they want anything different. Why leave your sweet "saint russia" bubble?
Gemüsepizza
Member
Obviously still not enough "evidence" for the international community to act on it and punish Russia as the perpetrator.
Ok.
SniperHunter
Banned
this isnt America's problem. Let Europe deal with it
Midnight Phoenix
Member
Well, Russia today has answer! Ukrainians tryed to kill Putin, as his plain has very close coloring with Boing and his route was exact same. So they mislead and take down wrong airplane.
is it REALLY that hard to believe Ukrainians sneaked into the pro-Russian separatist territory, shot down a plane using Russian made missile technology, then creeped back out before anyone could see them doing it? I mean, that totally explains everything far simpler than the alternative.
Midnight Phoenix
Member
No. Well except those, who have internet, but this is croud 12-40 years old and every 10 or so.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Why do you emphasize that it is "Russian made missile technology"? I thought both countries have access to the same weapon systems here.
They would never involve European or American troops against Russia they are scared to death of getting into a shooting war with Russia.
Midnight Phoenix
Member
Then Russia will point at this with words, that USA send mercenaries to kill people of DNR. And that they must protect them.
USSR is collapsed, because of sanctions on fuel. History has ability to make leaps and it is about to make new one.
Most interesting part, that fuel and gas in Russia costs more, than in USA and near equel, than in EU. Country is do nothing more, then just export resources and some technologies that they got from USSR.
I think Ukraine and Russia are working together behind the scenes in order to create turmoil in Europe upon which they will reinstate the Soviet Union and wage war across Europe. The next step is to take away the freedom of Americans!
Wake up sheeple!
Gemüsepizza;121796212 said:
First of all, countries all around the world right now are feverishly discussing what if any action to take against Russia for this. There very well may be more severe sanctions on the way, but decisions of that magnitude are going to take much international discussion and will not happen in the space of a week 99% of the time. Similarly, making decisions of this magnitude is not like checking a box on some test. HUGE choices have to be made, mechanisms triggered and political entities moved, populations brought on board to the discussion.
MOST of the international community as of this moment has already voiced that they are pretty much 100% certain it's Russian separatists with Russian given weapons, and that the only way Russia can show it's not is by allowing investigators in to do an independent investigation. The Pro-Russian Separatists have currently blocked all investigators entering into the area.
So not only do these people keep fantasizing about implausible scenarios in which the pro-Russian separatists weren't armed by Russia with Russian missile tech on the territory they control (since that's where the missile came from, it dismantles any alternative argument about Ukraine also having such tech), but they also keep fantasizing about a world in which political decisions of this magnitude are made overnight and if not there must automatically be some question as to the validity of the order of events!
This is the problem with your posts. Not that the content does not fit "the gaf narrative" but that you're only willing to accept garbage conspiracy theorist sources. Even if we take this crap source at face value, these are the claims:
-Russia says they have (unshared) radar evidence that it was a false flag operation by the Ukrainian government.
OK, how is this any more credible than the supposed intercepts by the UK government? In either case you've got to go purely on the word of the government. Russia, as it stands, has proven to be very unreliable in providing factual information regarding this conflict (see: Crimea)
-Some unverified guy claimed to be part of UK ATC and posted some shit on twitter.
Is this even worth a response?
-Russia asked for an independent investigation
OK, but the author (and Russia) goes on to say that all international investigations don't count. Only Russia is trustworthy. Really?
Meanwhile, if anyone posts a proper report you just say it's an unreliable tabloid without addressing what is actually presented. I would actually be very interested in any legitimate accounts that challenge the popular narrative, but infowars shit like this is worthless
There have been images at the Dutch Embassy in Moscow where flowers and signs asking for forgiveness have been seen. Not all of Russia is under the Putin Spell but an alarming number are and they believe its an evil Plot against Holy Russia. That's the scary thing developing in this. Putin and his Puppet Church are on a whole new campaign to make it so Russia is seen as the bastion of Christianity under attack
why would they be? From the second this story happened, Russian media has either attempted to make the story smaller than it is (relegating it to a second tier story on a front page, for example) or to make up completely insane theories about what happened. Like, really fucking insane almost impossible to repeat without laughing hysterically nonsense that only people still stuck in 1953 might believe.
So yeah, most Russians would probably not be outraged, because they are not seeing the media show them anything to be outraged about. Just lies.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Well there is only 15% have broadband internet in Russia (Half compare to USA and most EU), as well language barrier that lacking share the world media.
And insane media control. Almost North Korea stuff.
I am just subscribing to the thread so I can get progressively more disgusted by FreedomFighter posts.
iceatcs
Junior Member
| Praxis |
Banned
I just don't get what the Ukrainian government would hope to gain from shooting the plane down themselves and framing the separatists?
The Ukrainian military has the rebels on the back foot, at the very least they are in a much better situation now than they were a month ago.
Western media is largely choosing to ignore/downplay the civilian casualties being caused by the Ukrainian army compared to, say, Israel for comparison. So they aren't being pressured that way.
The likelihood of military support is slim, even if Russian troops crossed the border and marched towards Kiev. Sanctions were always more likely. Certainly not worth the risk of being found out. I doubt the Ukrainian intelligence were in a position to know who or what was watching it's troop movements from satellites etc.
The Ukrainian military has the rebels on the back foot, at the very least they are in a much better situation now than they were a month ago.
Western media is largely choosing to ignore/downplay the civilian casualties being caused by the Ukrainian army compared to, say, Israel for comparison. So they aren't being pressured that way.
The likelihood of military support is slim, even if Russian troops crossed the border and marched towards Kiev. Sanctions were always more likely. Certainly not worth the risk of being found out. I doubt the Ukrainian intelligence were in a position to know who or what was watching it's troop movements from satellites etc.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
How long before people claim the Malaysian flight that disappeared is actually this one?
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Yeah, that was a good one. I mean, honestly, who is dumb enough to believe that? They really couldn't come up with anything better?
That would be a direct declaration of war and the UN wouldn't just watch. I don't think it comes to that tho, Russia acts through the separatists group for a reason. There won't be any direct involvement of a big Russian army. Also, this was proposed yesterday in the US: “Russian Aggression Prevention Act of 2014”, which would give Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova support to receive major non-NATO ally status.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Too late, some of the Rebels & their supporters have already tried floating this one, "Oh! What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive".
Too late, some of the Rebels & their supporters have already tried floating this one, "Oh! What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive".
is there any insane theory they haven't floated yet to try to cover up their own fuck up?
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Perfect way to get rid of the "lost" plane.
Aliens.... that were working for the Ukraine government, which receives direct order from the US, which uses western media propaganda to cover up tracks.
I'm still waiting for the Illumanti conspiracy.
BigWeather
Member
This been posted yet?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...f07204-0f1c-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.html
Russia supplied missile launchers to separatists, U.S. official says, Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...f07204-0f1c-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.html
Russia supplied missile launchers to separatists, U.S. official says, Washington Post
It's already started to happen, naturally.
TheRedSnifit
Member
It isn't equally likely, at all. There's no plausible way to explain how Ukraine's military would see a plane flying in from the west and assume it belongs to a separatist group that has no aircraft. This would be like the UK shooting down an airliner coming from Canada because they think it's an ISIS military transport.
Im not an expert on lying, but I think wheb a suspe t keeps changing his story pretty much daily, even hourly, that's proof that he is definitely telling the truth and should be eliminated from the investigation.
did anyone tell the separatists yet to go ly dow?
Roche, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, and Pfizer in conjunction with the CIA stole a BuK and framed the innocent separatists because the AIDS researchers were on their way to announce a comprehensive and cheap cure and vaccination for HIV.
How about that one. I'm sure it's already been brought up.
Yep, no one is really going to come out and say it, until there is conclusive evidence at this stage.
Also although Russia is acting transparent as hell, which country is going to take up the fight to Russia? Netherlands can't, US won't and Malaysia won't do anything. We've got Abbott in Australia getting into a war of words with Putin, but he's taking potshots from 15,000km away. Russia knows it can act like a bully but ain't no one going to do nothing. And Russia doesn't seem too worried about sanctions either.
By the way, has the theory of a bomb on the plane itself been discussed? I mean it seems we've jumped to conclusions a bit because of a social media post that it was definitely a surface to air missile.... what if it was the intention to have a bomb on the plane go off somewhere around the border...
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked