Support NeoGAF

[ShinobiFist]

OP....Bravo. The best analogy I've seen on the web. You on Steam?

 

[bender]

Hoh hoh hoh, back up. Code: Veronica is hardly an absolute success. I don't think that fits in with your analogy at all, actually.

Description precedes the examples. Though I'm glad someone dislikes Code Veronica as much as I do. I thought the game was over after the airplane boss fight.

 

[jadedm17]

Not a bad analogy, actually.

Yea, well said.

Spoiler

Evil is a four-letter-word!

 

[H6rdc0re]

Yes you're right Resident Evil 4 is Black Album, apart from a couple of great moments (songs) hugely overrated. Also Resident Evil 3 isn't worthy of your Master of Puppets comparison. Code Veronica would be Master of Puppets while Resident Evil 3 is more like Load.

 

[Y2Kev]

AHAHAH I read it totally wrong.

OMG the analogy makes so much more sense now.

p.s. code veronica is SHIT

 

[CartridgeBlower]

I like the analogy, but isn't Code Veronica more of the 'great first 3' than Nemesis. Nemesis was more of the 'quick follow-up' to capitalize on the Playstation, but doesn't everyone agree Code Veronica is the real sequel to 2?

 

[snarge]

Which one of the big four is Silent Hill then? Slayer?

Silent Hill is Tool.

Also, "Some Kind of Monster" is REmake.

This all makes too much sense.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Hoh hoh hoh, back up. Code: Veronica is hardly an absolute success. I don't think that fits in with your analogy at all, actually.

CODE: Veronica is Lulu.

 

[White Man]

Some Kind of Monster is so awesome.

 

[Y2Kev]

I like the analogy, but isn't Code Veronica more of the 'great first 3' than Nemesis. Nemesis was more of the 'quick follow-up' to capitalize on the Playstation, but doesn't everyone agree Code Veronica is the real sequel to 2?

Not at all. Code: Veronica vs. 3 is a very hotly debated subject. It's obvious that RE3 was a more quickly produced title, probably on a budget, but I don't think that factors into the overall product too significantly.

Code: Veronica is the point in the series where the crazy narrative fans took root. We went from evil corporation and zombie outbreak to freaking matrix Wesker and other stupid shit. Then we have to hear about how RE4 betrayed these great roots. Pox on that game.

 

[MormaPope]

Yes you're right Resident Evil 4 is Black Album, apart from a couple of great moments (songs) hugely overrated.

If anything the older Resident Evil's are overrated. Seriously, the gameplay and design of Resident Evil 4 is still great a decade later, at the time there was nothing that could challenge it's design or mechanics. How have the first three mainline Resident Evil's held up many years later? They play like dodge-a-mole with incredibly simple puzzles and incredibly simple combat mechanics.

At least the first three Silent Hill's have excellent narratives and unique atmosphere.

 

[FauX]

Nice find.
btw, where did you place Garage Inc. Álbum?

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Bingo. Load is Metallica's best album.

... for me to poop on!

Seriously though, I'm sure someone out there (with equally bad taste) thinks RE5 is the best game in the series too. Analogy holds up. Also, I agree with the OP's assessment of RE4 as the Black Album. Good in its own right, but also a fundamental deviation that spelled the beginning of the end for the classic style. As far as I'm concerned post Black Album Metallica and post RE4 might as well not exist. It's crushing watching something you used to really like devolve into a horrible mishmash of genre cliches.

 

[evilromero]

This is bullshit. As an RE and Metallica fan, how in fucks name could you say Load/Reload are anything like RE5, which if anything was just copying the RE4 formula. It wasn't trying to do anything new. You can't say the same of Load/Reload, which both attempted something different but were equally impressive in their own right. St. Anger was a mess, yes. Mired in production issues and in-fighting it'll always be the black sheep of their discography. But Load/Reload are fucking great and some of James' best writing. Hell if any other band released those two albums there would be absolutely no disagreement about their honesty and sincerity. Just great albums.

 

[sub_o]

Can you try to use Megadetth as analogy? How Shinji Mikami was the Marty Friedman of Capcom, with original and catchy style. But after he left everything went to sound lackluster

 

[H6rdc0re]

If anything the older Resident Evil's are overrated. Seriously, the gameplay and design of Resident Evil 4 is still great a decade later, at the time there was nothing that could challenge it's design or mechanics. How have the first three mainline Resident Evil's held up many years later? They play like dodge-a-mole with incredibly simple puzzles and incredibly simple combat mechanics.

Nothing like simple shooting mechanics, QTE's and fighting the same enemies all game long. It had some cool moments but IMO wasn't that great.

 

[White Man]

Not at all. Code: Veronica vs. 3 is a very hotly debated subject. It's obvious that RE3 was a more quickly produced title, probably on a budget, but I don't think that factors into the overall product too significantly.

Code: Veronica is the point in the series where the crazy narrative fans took root. We went from evil corporation and zombie outbreak to freaking matrix Wesker and other stupid shit. Then we have to hear about how RE4 betrayed these great roots. Pox on that game.

Eother way, I think we can all agree that RE3 is definitely not at the same quality level as Master of Puppets.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Siding with the "don't compare Load to RE5" crowd, but otherwise nice analogy.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

This is bullshit. As an RE and Metallica fan, how in fucks name could you say Load/Reload are anything like RE5, which if anything was just copying the RE4 formula. St. Anger was a mess, yes. Mired in production issues and in-fighting. But Load/Reload are fucking great and some of James' best writing. Hell if any other band released those two albums there would be absolutely no disagreement about their honesty and sincerity. Just great albums.

If any other band released those albums I would have never paid attention. Mediocre to the core imo.

Eother way, I think we can all agree that RE3 is definitely not at the same quality level as Master of Puppets.

That is also true.

 

[Fandangox]

Nice, can you Daft Punk and Dynasty Warriors next.

 

[PAULINK]

Think you two are reading it wrong. RE5 is listed as the worthy follow-up, not the trouble mess.

Woops, I am dumb.

 

[Carnby]

That was a fun read, OP. Good analogy.

 

[dreamfall]

Fantastic Analogy!

Although I kinda loved RE5!

 

[Sanctuary]

Kill 'Em All, Ride The Lightning, Master of Puppets.
Resident Evil 1, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 3: Nemesis

The last hurrah of the classic era, great works but both the creators and the critics agree that the formula is running it's course.

RE2 would be Master of Puppets, while Nemesis is just "meh". It just tries to do what RE2 already perfected, while adding in an OBNOXIOUS gameplay mechanic.

Metallica (Black Album)
Resident Evil 4

The worthy followup. A logical evolution of the previous work, that only makes the old fans even more upset at the change of style.

Only a minority feel this way. It's like saying, "If you really liked RE4, you were not an old fan of the series". I'd been playing the RE games since the first launched in the US, bought a GC and all of the RE games on it as well, and I thought RE4 was the second best of the series hands down. RE2 > RE4 > ReMake.

Don't know much about Metallica.... but RE4 would be the equivalent of the entire band breaking up and the lead singer forming an N-sync boy band group.

GAF hyperbole never fails to deliver.

 

[MormaPope]

Nothing like simple shooting mechanics, QTE's and fighting the same enemies all game long. It had some cool moments but IMO wasn't that great.

What other third person shooters in 2005 existed in general? Now take those games and compare them to Resident Evil 4's aiming model/mechanic, and then compare the combat in those games to the combat in RE4. The third person shooter genre barely existed around RE4's release. The QTE's in Resident Evil 4 are only bad if you have extreme short term memory, like you can't remember the past three minutes bad. Fighting the same enemies is nonsense, match ups would change dramatically based on which area you were in.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I guess REMake would be Garage Inc.

 

[Sanctuary]

I guess REMake would be Garage Inc.

That fits.

 

[Y2Kev]

RE2 would be Master of Puppets, while Nemesis is just "meh". It just tries to do what RE2 already perfected, while adding in an OBNOXIOUS gameplay mechanic.




This is such horse shit and only a minority feel this way. It's like saying, "If you really liked RE4, you were not an old fan of the series". I'd been playing the RE games since the first launched in the US, bought a GC and all of the RE games on it as well, and I thought RE4 was the second best of the series hands down. RE2 > RE4 > ReMake.



GAF hyperbole never fails to deliver.

You aren't reading the analogy right.

 

[Clawww]

you totally could have monetized this thread by publishing it somewhere in a buzzfeed-esque format

 

[Manu]

This is bullshit. As an RE and Metallica fan, how in fucks name could you say Load/Reload are anything like RE5, which if anything was just copying the RE4 formula. It wasn't trying to do anything new. You can't say the same of Load/Reload, which both attempted something different but were equally impressive in their own right. St. Anger was a mess, yes. Mired in production issues and in-fighting it'll always be the black sheep of their discography. But Load/Reload are fucking great and some of James' best writing. Hell if any other band released those two albums there would be absolutely no disagreement about their honesty and sincerity. Just great albums.

I was aiming for a more public/general view angle. What I wrote about each album/game doesn't necessarily reflect what I think about it.

My favorite Metallica album is Load, my favorite RE is 2. And I think RE6 is good, but St. Anger is.. uuh...

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

RE2 would be Master of Puppets, while Nemesis is just "meh". It just tries to do what RE2 already perfected, while adding in an OBNOXIOUS gameplay mechanic.




Only a minority feel this way. It's like saying, "If you really liked RE4, you were not an old fan of the series". I'd been playing the RE games since the first launched in the US, bought a GC and all of the RE games on it as well, and I thought RE4 was the second best of the series hands down. RE2 > RE4 > ReMake.

I think you're reading the OP wrong.

 

[Sanctuary]

You aren't reading the analogy right.

I guess as far as "breakthrough" in terms of sales and gaining more mainstream appeal it would be the Black Album. I was mostly commenting on the comment about how older fans were upset by the changes. Some of the older fans were, but not all or even the majority. I was more upset with the stylistic shift Metallica took with The Black album way more than any changes to RE4. In fact, I actually thought RE4 was what the series needed.

I think you're reading the OP wrong.

Pretty sure I'm not.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

I can't believe you just compared RE4 with the Black Album.

This. One is a masterpiece from start to finish and the other is the Black Album.

 

[Y2Kev]

I guess as far as "breakthrough" in terms of sales and gaining more mainstream appeal it would be the Black Album. I was mostly commenting on the comment about how older fans were upset by the changes. Some of the older fans were, but not all or even the majority.



Pretty sure I'm not.

No, you're not reading it right. The text for each entry actually precedes it. He's not saying what you read about RE4 to be about RE4...it's about RE5. Unless you were just making a general comment about the "change in style," but I feel like that would make more sense in the RE4 section.

 

[ArjanN]

Hoh hoh hoh, back up. Code: Veronica is hardly an absolute success. I don't think that fits in with your analogy at all, actually. RE4 is not at all a "logical evolution" of Code: Veronica, and it was massively more popular and successful. Code: Veronica was hot garbage, remains hot garbage, and sits in the shit-tier of Resident Evil games along with Dead Aim and Resident Evil: Boat.

Code: Veronica is a logical extension of Resident Evils 1 and 2 with the crazy amped up to 1000 and the level design seriously just fucking annoying. It isn't really a reinvention of anything or a dramatic reinterpretation of anything. It's just a game with a cross-dressing villain, choke-points up the ass, and Oui Oui Don't Shoot.

While I thought it was decent, I don't think it was much a change of direction at all. It was just more of the same old formula except with some better tech, but not executed as well on.

Like it or not, RE4 was what revived the series.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

But Metallica have always been bad?

 

[baphomet]

No Leaf Clover, Hero of the Day, I Disappear, and Fuel wanna have a word with you.

And RE4 and Code Veronica do as well.

Im not sure if this is a joke or what. Those are from easily the worst era of an already bad band.

 

[Zee-Row]

Zombies imprisoning me
All that I see
Absolute horror!

 

[antitrop]

No Leaf Clover, Hero of the Day, I Disappear, and Fuel wanna have a word with you.

I love the guitar riff in Hero of the Day.

 

[Squirts Macintosh]

INVISIBLE KID NEVER KNEW WHAT HE DID HAD SEX WITH A SQUID FALLING THROUGH THE GRID

Please tell me these aren't Metallica lyrics.

 

[Manu]

Please tell me these aren't Metallica lyrics.

Only the first half.

 

[BoomBap]

I know it was a departure from the classic formula but I still can't believe there are people who actually don't like RE4. Ludicrous.

 

[March of the Crabs]

Black album fucking blows though and RE4 rules. Other than that I agree, although I think Load/Reload were worse than RE5 and St. Anger was better than RE6.

 

[TUROK]

But St. Anger was the furthest thing from an attempt to return to their roots.

It was just pure angry, raw, mid-to-slow tempo heavy metal. No guitar solos, trashcan drums, and songs that go on forever.

And while The Black Album and Load/ReLoad sound almost nothing alike, RE4 to RE5 are cut from the same cloth... Except RE5 got some shitty fabric in some places.

 

[AEREC]

I mean... It's all in there.

The first three beloved, influential classics. The first one feels a bit rough when compared to the other two, but you can't think of the classic era without it.

Kill 'Em All, Ride The Lightning, Master of Puppets.
Resident Evil 1, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 3: Nemesis

The last hurrah of the classic era, great works but both the creators and the critics agree that the formula is running it's course.

...And Justice For All
Resident Evil Code: Veronica

The change of direction, a conscious attempt of changing the rules. An absolute success, gets tons of new fans, even among those who didn't like the classic era. A new classic that will affect things from now on. Beloved by some, hated with a passion and considered a betrayal by purists. I mean, it's different but who cares? It's just so good.

Metallica (Black Album)
Resident Evil 4

The worthy followup. A logical evolution of the previous work, that only makes the old fans even more upset at the change of style.

Load/ReLoad
Resident Evil 5

The "what the fuck is this?" entry. Troubled production. A total mess, you can feel they were struggling to come up with it and it's mostly crap, but the patient ones can still find moments of brilliance scattered here and there. For most people it's just shit and who can blame them really?

St. Anger
Resident Evil 6

The one where you can tell where they trying to "return to the roots", and while it doesn't come up as being 100% sincere and it suffers for it, it's still a solid and enjoyable attempt at that.

Death Magnetic
Resident Evil Revelations

I apologize for wasting your time and promise to never post anything this stupid again.

This is pretty spot on...for me at least.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Good analogy but I always thought Code Veronica was crap. They went from survival horror to action because they were running out of ideas.

 

[Prophane33]

Fantastic analogy. Completely fits. Only problem is that I love the Black Album and hate RE4, but I'm guessing a lot of old Metallica fans felt the same way. It was definitely the RE game that made me dislike RE games (though I might check out Revelations).

 

[ArjanN]

But Metallica have always been bad?

No, they were great and then eventually got worse.

 

[Manu]

But St. Anger was the furthest thing from an attempt to return to their roots.

It was just pure angry, raw, mid-to-slow tempo heavy metal. No guitar solos, trashcan drums, and songs that go on forever.

And while The Black Album and Load/ReLoad sound almost nothing alike, RE4 to RE5 are cut from the same cloth... Except RE5 got some shitty fabric in some places.

You're reading it wrong, each album/game is below the description, not above.

 

[drspeedy]

RE4 is NOT the Black album, sorry

Wrong.

Fantastic analogy. Completely fits. Only problem is that I love the Black Album and hate RE4, but I'm guessing a lot of old Metallica fans felt the same way. It was definitely the RE game that made me dislike RE games (though I might check out Revelations).

Wrong!!


Damn, I'm crotchety some times.




Who can hate the black album?


RE4??



Kids today!!