"God's Beard!"
Member
Why would Viz need an official stance on scanlators? Scanlation is stealing, pretty simple.
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Manga News/Discussion |OTY| Creatively Bankrupt
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Dedication Through Light
Member
I dont understand why Tokyo Ghoul is so pricey from Viz here.
Coriolanus
Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151358948]Scanlation is stealing, pretty simple.[/QUOTE]
Heh. Copyright infringement? Sure. Stealing? no.
Heh. Copyright infringement? Sure. Stealing? no.
Aaronrules380
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151358948]Why would Viz need an official stance on scanlators? Scanlation is stealing, pretty simple.[/QUOTE]
It's a lot more complicated than that though, especially in situations where there is no legal way to obtain a manga in a language you can read. Who am I stealing from if I read a product that I nobody is offering, and that nobody loses money by me reading (Hell, in these cases it could even profit the japanese releases since some people might read a scanlation and then buy official Japanese volumes). Suggesting that it's straight up stealing and does no good for the industry is not necessarily true, and there was even a time where the general opinion within the industry was that scanlations were actually useful for publishers as well
It's a lot more complicated than that though, especially in situations where there is no legal way to obtain a manga in a language you can read. Who am I stealing from if I read a product that I nobody is offering, and that nobody loses money by me reading (Hell, in these cases it could even profit the japanese releases since some people might read a scanlation and then buy official Japanese volumes). Suggesting that it's straight up stealing and does no good for the industry is not necessarily true, and there was even a time where the general opinion within the industry was that scanlations were actually useful for publishers as well
"God's Beard!"
Member
This is not a valid justification for scans.
Just because Halo 5 doesn't come out in your country, that doesn't mean you get to play it for free because you want to. Unavailability sucks, but it doesn't entitle you to free content.
This is a straw man argument, I didn't mention anything about it being good or bad.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
dakkumauji
Member
Inu X Boku Secret Service Vol.06
I am grateful they explained what the hell was going on at the start of this volume. The twist upon twist was certainty interesting but I think the most interesting to me is seeing where this series goes from here on out. Unless they cop out and do yet another reversal and I would dislike that.
I am grateful they explained what the hell was going on at the start of this volume. The twist upon twist was certainty interesting but I think the most interesting to me is seeing where this series goes from here on out. Unless they cop out and do yet another reversal and I would dislike that.
Dedication Through Light
Member
I think they would have published them anyway.
Aaronrules380
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151360592]This is not a valid justification for scans.
Just because Halo 5 doesn't come out in your country, that doesn't mean you get to play it for free because you want to. Unavailability sucks, but it doesn't entitle you to free content.
This is a straw man argument, I didn't mention anything about it being good or bad.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying the issue is tricky, and saying it's stealing and therefore wrong is a gross oversimplification of a far more complex issue. Stealing is wrong because it hurts people. Even if scanlations are stealing, that's ultimately a legal classification and as such can be subject to change. What's more important is whether it is ethically and morally an issue. If some people "stealing" the manga could ultimately foster growth in the industry, than I can't see the issue. Why does it matter if it's stealing if it provides a net benefit (and I'm not necessarily saying it always does). And is it stealing if I read scanlations and then support the official release as well? Is it stealing if I read scanlations and then order the japanese volumes? Furthermore, even if I don't do these things, or don't consistently do these things, if I encourage more people to read something they otherwise never would have touched and this leads to sales that never would've come before, doesn't that ultimately benefit the official release? I agree that you aren't entitled to free stuff, and that you should always try to support the official release in whatever ways you can. That said, who is it helping if nobody in America ever even gets a chance to purchase a manga simply because somebody somewhere deemed that it wouldn't be profitable to sell?
Furthermore, even if scanlations do not on a whole benefit the industry, they might still be beneficial for certain cases. And since it's highly unlikely the scene will ever disappear completely, doesn't it make more sense to find ways to benefit and learn from it rather than condemn it as evil (which can also alienate people who actually would consider buying your releases). I agree that people who can buy manga, would buy it if it were the only option, but don't are in the wrong. But in other cases it's far more hazy and to demonize everyone who reads scans doesn't help anyone
Just because Halo 5 doesn't come out in your country, that doesn't mean you get to play it for free because you want to. Unavailability sucks, but it doesn't entitle you to free content.
This is a straw man argument, I didn't mention anything about it being good or bad.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying the issue is tricky, and saying it's stealing and therefore wrong is a gross oversimplification of a far more complex issue. Stealing is wrong because it hurts people. Even if scanlations are stealing, that's ultimately a legal classification and as such can be subject to change. What's more important is whether it is ethically and morally an issue. If some people "stealing" the manga could ultimately foster growth in the industry, than I can't see the issue. Why does it matter if it's stealing if it provides a net benefit (and I'm not necessarily saying it always does). And is it stealing if I read scanlations and then support the official release as well? Is it stealing if I read scanlations and then order the japanese volumes? Furthermore, even if I don't do these things, or don't consistently do these things, if I encourage more people to read something they otherwise never would have touched and this leads to sales that never would've come before, doesn't that ultimately benefit the official release? I agree that you aren't entitled to free stuff, and that you should always try to support the official release in whatever ways you can. That said, who is it helping if nobody in America ever even gets a chance to purchase a manga simply because somebody somewhere deemed that it wouldn't be profitable to sell?
Furthermore, even if scanlations do not on a whole benefit the industry, they might still be beneficial for certain cases. And since it's highly unlikely the scene will ever disappear completely, doesn't it make more sense to find ways to benefit and learn from it rather than condemn it as evil (which can also alienate people who actually would consider buying your releases). I agree that people who can buy manga, would buy it if it were the only option, but don't are in the wrong. But in other cases it's far more hazy and to demonize everyone who reads scans doesn't help anyone
Aaronrules380
Member
MHA yes. Soma I highly doubt. And even if they did, I think it wouldn't have met the success it has if people hadn't been able to try it out for free. I've bought Soma volumes and really love the series, but if I only had the premise to go on and a few bits that I'd heard from word of mouth, I'd probably have never given the series a chance if real money was involved. And Soma probably wouldn't have gotten into Jump if the volumes weren't doing well (since it was originally not put in there for very specific reasons that are honestly still fairly valid). Now granted the anime might've gotten people in, but even this is only true because of the spread of free anime on the internet, and I really doubt that would ever have taken off like it has without fansubs pressuring the industry (the same goes for any sort of simulcast or timely release)
Dedication Through Light
Member
They would have had to get it, I cant imagine they would have wanted to just pick up one new weekly shonen jump series a year. Since the only things picked up for print have been Nisekoi, then world trigger, then Assassination Classroom. Any other series had died or just had no market here, so Food Wars would have been a logical choice.
Aaronrules380
Member
Honestly, without scanlations I doubt we'd ever have gotten something like simulpub jump to begin with. And I really don't see them thinking there was a market in the US for Soma without it having already been popular in the scanlation community beforehand. Same with Nisekoi for that matter
Dedication Through Light
Member
These set of chapters are my favorite in all of Haikyuu!. Theyre so intense and also pretty fun and hilarious., The Tsukki Bokuto Kuroo are all great in these chapters. Bokuto needs more time as well.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Yep. They cancelled Vinland Saga.....
Wut.
Edit: technically it's stealing plain and simple you are using a personas intellectual property without buying or having their consent. It's stealing no way around it. Now, there are good things that come from it, and people can read manga when they usually can't. Even if there is good things about scanlators if you look at it technically it is stealing.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Based on what? Overseas popularity that has no correlation with domestic popularity? Scans, as bad as they are, are the best metric of what to bring over. They're a helpful evil
"God's Beard!"
Member
Before reading my response, know that I've been a scanlator for a dozen or so series over the past decade. I've never used any sort of identification because it's not something worth celebrating, and I just sat in IRC chatrooms for the most part and fixed up the stuff people sent me to be archived in other IRC chatrooms. I never did it for some bullshit greater good. I wanted to read comics I couldn't get, and I did it knowing it was illegal and morally wrong.
Or maybe it was deemed unprofitable because fewer people every year are willing to pay for something that is more easily and readily available for free.
Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't demonize anyone. I said it was stealing. I don't care if you read scans, but stop pretending that sitting in your computer chair clicking through Vagabond is doing Takehiko Inoue a favor.
It's that attitude that I hate, this bending over backwards to make yourself feel better about reading illegal content. It's what leads to scanlation groups asking for donations, aggregate sites hosting ads and the whole thing becoming a thief-run economy that shuts out legitimate publishing, online or in paper.
How can the guy paying Shueisha for licensing compete with the dude that mashes his copy of To Love Ru he got at Kinokuniya against a scanner and puts it up for free the same day as the Japanese release?
It's only complex because people have been stealing for so long that they want someone to tell them it's ok.
It's ethically and morally wrong because you're taking an artist's work, often before it's published in its home country, and releasing it for free to a worldwide audience before the artist gets to take advantage of their work.
Yes
Yes
If stealing an apple, then giving it to a guy who's never eaten an apple makes you feel better about the apple industry, then more power to you. But it's not your job to advertise by infringing on someone else's rights, and at best you have a misguided sense of support. When in reality this philosophy is part of the reason stolen goods are so readily available for consumption to the point where their impact is no longer reversible. It's not so much "good for the industry" as replacing it.
Or maybe it was deemed unprofitable because fewer people every year are willing to pay for something that is more easily and readily available for free.
Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't demonize anyone. I said it was stealing. I don't care if you read scans, but stop pretending that sitting in your computer chair clicking through Vagabond is doing Takehiko Inoue a favor.
It's that attitude that I hate, this bending over backwards to make yourself feel better about reading illegal content. It's what leads to scanlation groups asking for donations, aggregate sites hosting ads and the whole thing becoming a thief-run economy that shuts out legitimate publishing, online or in paper.
How can the guy paying Shueisha for licensing compete with the dude that mashes his copy of To Love Ru he got at Kinokuniya against a scanner and puts it up for free the same day as the Japanese release?
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Gotta agree with you.
I'm no longer on the Tsuki hate bus after reading these last few chapters.
Aaronrules380
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151365581]Before reading my response, know that I've been a scanlator for a dozen or so series over the past decade. I've never used any sort of identification because it's not something worth celebrating, and I just sat in IRC chatrooms for the most part and fixed up the stuff people sent me to be archived in other IRC chatrooms. I never did it for some bullshit greater good. I wanted to read comics I couldn't get, and I did it knowing it was illegal and morally wrong.
It's only complex because people have been stealing for so long that they want someone to tell them it's ok.
It's ethically and morally wrong because you're taking an artist's work, often before it's published in its home country, and releasing it for free to a worldwide audience before the artist gets to take advantage of their work.
Yes
Yes
If stealing an apple, then giving it to a guy who's never eaten an apple makes you feel better about the apple industry, then more power to you. But it's not your job to advertise by infringing on someone else's rights, and at best you have a misguided sense of support. When in reality this philosophy is part of the reason stolen goods are so readily available for consumption to the point where their impact is no longer reversible. It's not so much "good for the industry" as replacing it.
Or maybe it was deemed unprofitable because fewer people every year are willing to pay for something that is more easily and readily available for free.
Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't demonize anyone. I said it was stealing. I don't care if you read scans, but stop pretending that sitting in your computer chair clicking through Vagabond is doing Takehiko Inoue a favor.
It's that attitude that I hate, this bending over backwards to make yourself feel better about reading illegal content. It's what leads to scanlation groups asking for donations, aggregate sites hosting ads and the whole thing becoming a thief-run economy that shuts out legitimate publishing, online or in paper.
How can the guy paying Shueisha for licensing compete with the dude that mashes his copy of To Love Ru he got at Kinokuniya against a scanner and puts it up for free the same day as the Japanese release?[/QUOTE]I'm not suggesting that a lot of scanlation practices aren't scummy. Also, how is it stealing if I bought the Japanese release and then read a translation online? I've purchased the content, so the only free thing I'm getting is a translation that was probably never available to me. And can you prove it shuts out legitimate publishing? I'd argue that a lot of advances in legitimate publishing never would've come about without pressure from scanlation groups. If I buy the official release, who loses anything over me reading a scanlation as well? Why is it morally and ethically wrong if nobody comes out worse for the situation?
It's only complex because people have been stealing for so long that they want someone to tell them it's ok.
It's ethically and morally wrong because you're taking an artist's work, often before it's published in its home country, and releasing it for free to a worldwide audience before the artist gets to take advantage of their work.
Yes
Yes
If stealing an apple, then giving it to a guy who's never eaten an apple makes you feel better about the apple industry, then more power to you. But it's not your job to advertise by infringing on someone else's rights, and at best you have a misguided sense of support. When in reality this philosophy is part of the reason stolen goods are so readily available for consumption to the point where their impact is no longer reversible. It's not so much "good for the industry" as replacing it.
Or maybe it was deemed unprofitable because fewer people every year are willing to pay for something that is more easily and readily available for free.
Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't demonize anyone. I said it was stealing. I don't care if you read scans, but stop pretending that sitting in your computer chair clicking through Vagabond is doing Takehiko Inoue a favor.
It's that attitude that I hate, this bending over backwards to make yourself feel better about reading illegal content. It's what leads to scanlation groups asking for donations, aggregate sites hosting ads and the whole thing becoming a thief-run economy that shuts out legitimate publishing, online or in paper.
How can the guy paying Shueisha for licensing compete with the dude that mashes his copy of To Love Ru he got at Kinokuniya against a scanner and puts it up for free the same day as the Japanese release?[/QUOTE]I'm not suggesting that a lot of scanlation practices aren't scummy. Also, how is it stealing if I bought the Japanese release and then read a translation online? I've purchased the content, so the only free thing I'm getting is a translation that was probably never available to me. And can you prove it shuts out legitimate publishing? I'd argue that a lot of advances in legitimate publishing never would've come about without pressure from scanlation groups. If I buy the official release, who loses anything over me reading a scanlation as well? Why is it morally and ethically wrong if nobody comes out worse for the situation?
It's a bit of a gray area in some respects, and completely indefensible in other respects.
For example, I do not read any scanlations of manga that have official subscriptions (e.g. WSJ) or physical volumes. I do not feel it is justifiable in any sense (assuming you live in a country where you can purchase it).
For those obscure manga that aren't licensed, then the matter becomes morally grey.
"God's Beard!"
Member
...uhh
Dedication Through Light
Member
You mean why am I saying they would have brought it anyway? Well when they announced they had food wars it was already listed on amzn and since books are scheduled many months ahead of time they had clearly planned for Food Wars way in advanced.Unless they wanted to not have new series, skipping Food Wars would have been a foolish business decision.
The anime would have no doubt inspired them to bring it over. Are scans really the reason one thinks they are bringing Twin Star Exorcists, picked up Seraph of the End, and Tokyo Ghoul?
dakkumauji
Member
Pokemon Black and White Vol.20
I think Viz shouldn't bother releasing the magazine version of Pokemon anymore, cause lol that was terrible. Plot points where dropped left and right and picked up with no rhyme or reason here. It became walls of text at the end trying to squeeze as much info as they could into whatever pages they had left.
The ending was shit too. N just flies away and everyone watches and that's literally it, lol
I imagine the whole point of the volume releases is that it fixes up the magazine version and releasing those here just shows how rough it is.
I think Viz shouldn't bother releasing the magazine version of Pokemon anymore, cause lol that was terrible. Plot points where dropped left and right and picked up with no rhyme or reason here. It became walls of text at the end trying to squeeze as much info as they could into whatever pages they had left.
The ending was shit too. N just flies away and everyone watches and that's literally it, lol
I imagine the whole point of the volume releases is that it fixes up the magazine version and releasing those here just shows how rough it is.
Aaronrules380
Member
I'll admit that I haven't supported every series available legally that I read, though I have tried to start. A large part of this is related to my financial situation, where all my purchases have to go through my parents. This makes it hard for me to consistently buy all the manga I enjoy. I do plan to buy more, especially once I gain more financial independence, but right now it's very difficult within my situation. That said, I do subscribe to English Shonen Jump and Crunchyroll manga, as well and I support legal anime options whenever I can. There are some series I read though that I wouldn't pay for, simply because were paying my only option they absolutely would never be worth it for me (A good example is that I would've given up Bleach a long, long time ago had I needed to pay for it in a form where it didn't come with several other manga that I actually enjoy)
Aaronrules380
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151367000]...uhh[/QUOTE]
Can you? There was a long period where even the legitimate publishers would say that scanlations ultimately helped the industry and benefitted them. It's a complicated issue, because the legitimate options are only hurt under the condition that
1. The person isn't buying the manga as well as reading scans
2. The person would be buying the manga if scans or some other free option was not available
If either of these two aren't true, then nobody loses anything. And while there are unquestionably situations where both are true, there's also the aspect of creating an audience. Many, many people only started reading manga through scans, and many transitioned from scans to official releases. Furthermore, a series doing well in scanlations could convince publishers to take a risk on a series they would never consider otherwise, which can bring new opportunities for success. I doubt Soma would ever come to the west if scanlations weren't a thing, but it has and it's been pretty successful, which translates to a gain in sales. So the issue is ultimately whether the sales only possible with scanlations (and these definitely exist) are more or less than the sales lost due to them
And practices like simulpubs, and speed ups were very much directly due to pressure on publishers because of scanlations. And even things like the emergence of digital, although it would probably happen eventually, were probably sped up significantly due to scanlations
Can you? There was a long period where even the legitimate publishers would say that scanlations ultimately helped the industry and benefitted them. It's a complicated issue, because the legitimate options are only hurt under the condition that
1. The person isn't buying the manga as well as reading scans
2. The person would be buying the manga if scans or some other free option was not available
If either of these two aren't true, then nobody loses anything. And while there are unquestionably situations where both are true, there's also the aspect of creating an audience. Many, many people only started reading manga through scans, and many transitioned from scans to official releases. Furthermore, a series doing well in scanlations could convince publishers to take a risk on a series they would never consider otherwise, which can bring new opportunities for success. I doubt Soma would ever come to the west if scanlations weren't a thing, but it has and it's been pretty successful, which translates to a gain in sales. So the issue is ultimately whether the sales only possible with scanlations (and these definitely exist) are more or less than the sales lost due to them
And practices like simulpubs, and speed ups were very much directly due to pressure on publishers because of scanlations. And even things like the emergence of digital, although it would probably happen eventually, were probably sped up significantly due to scanlations
I didn't know it was. Amazon has a good deal on them for about £5-7 per volume. How much do you usually pay for manga in the UK? I've only ever used Amazon.
Coriolanus
Banned
I am looking at it as a criminal attorney, which i am.
Scanlation is not stealing. it is copyright infringement. Completely different ruleset. Completely different behaviour. Do not try to equate the two.
Technically it is copyright infringement.
Even if you go by the absurdly protectionist copyright laws that apply in the USA, you still got shit MPAA vs Hotfile, when the judge told the MPAA to shut the fuck up already with the nonsense of trying to equate the two. Want more? Downling vs. United States, bootleg copies aint theft.
So, please, never ever say that copyright infringement is theft. It isn't.
Aaronrules380
Member
Aside from this, these are ultimately legal definitions and have very little to do with the actual ethics or morals of the issue. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it should be (An example is marijuana, which really is less dangerous than alcohol or cigarettes, and whose legalization would ultimately only help the economy. And I'm saying this as somebody who has never touched the stuff, and has absolutely no desire to)
Finished Punpun...that was woof.
Aiko herself was a pretty interesting character, mostly due to the perfection that Punpun saw in her and contrast to her real self. I will say, that Punpun is a super strong dude. It also made me think about somethings and where I'm headed and what I'm doing.
Fuguruma Memories Vol.1 - ( finished )
A full volume of Kei Toume's gorgeously coloured manga. They are all sentimental stories utilising the supernatural setting and characters splendidly.
Now, it's time to read this piece of Asano's interview.
A full volume of Kei Toume's gorgeously coloured manga. They are all sentimental stories utilising the supernatural setting and characters splendidly.
Now, it's time to read this piece of Asano's interview.
While he prefers his audience to interpret the ending themselves in their own personal thoughts, he himself think it is the worst possible ending for Punpun.
"God's Beard!"
Member
One of the top online illegal manga readers(which will go unnamed for obvious reasons) is ranked in the top 2000 websites in the world. It hovers between 60-80k unique viewers every day, and is currently worth more than $300k from advertising on top of works whose copyrights are infringed upon.
Although online streaming of anime and manga is helping companies like Viz to stabilize in spite of scanlation over the past year or two, the period over the past decade during which scanlation was as high as ever saw the fall of any number of legitimate publishing companies. Five years after its founding, Tokyopop was one of the largest manga companies publishing outside of Japan. The last 6-7 years have seen it cut in half, then shut down its american publishing house entirely, then re-emerge with a skeleton crew.
Central Park Media was one of the important early publishers for the international anime and manga industry, innovating in box sets and other ways to attract fans to their products. They went bankrupt when manga sales began to falter.
These are only a couple examples of a large number of companies shuttering during the mid-late 2000s.
A good quote:
Go back 2 years and track these sites and youll find an inverse relationship between the rise of traffic on these scanlation sites and the decline in U.S. manga sales, said Kurt Hassler, publishing director of Yen Press
Your ideas of scanlation helping manga sales are not only romantic and naive, but more importantly, not supported by any real evidence.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
I think I'll start using you guys as a reminder when new chapters are out. You guys are like clockwork with these updates. Much better than YouTube commentators.
Boku no Hero Academia 29
I wasn't expecting that from Iida. I hope Katsuki blows that copy cat bastard away. His smug attitude is quite annoying. I hope Class B lose because of him.
Boku no Hero Academia 29
I wasn't expecting that from Iida. I hope Katsuki blows that copy cat bastard away. His smug attitude is quite annoying. I hope Class B lose because of him.
Just finished reading the interview.
The stuff Pegasus was interesting, but felt like it could have been cut. As for the ending itself...nothing changed for Punpun. It's the same as it was before, and you could argue unlike before he met Aiko again, he has no hope. It feels like he is legit once again existing. Though it is up to the reader to see if he's happy or completely broken.
Well, stop paying attention to your near 300 ongoing reading list and start going back to what matters.
Aaronrules380
Member
Can you prove that scanlations were the sole reason for this? Correlation does not imply causation, and we don't even know how solid the correlation is unless they've published studies. Tokyopop's failure had a lot to do with shoddy business practices as well, it was hardly just the result of scanlations. A lot of things have happened in the industry besides scanlations. For example, the decline of anime on popular kid's TV stations has probably had a huge affect. And the fact that scanlation sites are large and make a lot of advertising budget doesn't necessarily mean all that money would go to the legal publishers if those sites were gone. I think that idea is completely absurd, because tons of people never would've tried manga at all without scanlation sites, and tons of people wouldn't read even a fraction of what they do right now. And ultimately, even if it has hurt them, it may also open opportunities for new business models that will do the industry good in the long run.
dakkumauji
Member
Boku to Senpai no Tekken Kousai 15
Oops, everyone gets kidnapped!
Oops, everyone gets kidnapped!
One hell of a ride, wasn't it?
Aiko was poisonous but Punpun also had some hand in that with how he saw her up as the idol of reprieve from either droll monotony or all the trauma he had amassed by the time they really got a shot together. Aiko's death left a very weakened Punpun behind however and were it not for Sachi finding him, he'd probably have died in a manner far darker than his "Goodnight Punpun" attempt.
"God's Beard!"
Member
You don't get to say that and then ramble on about your own unsubstantiated arguments for scanlation. At least I gave examples from people running publishing companies who had reason to believe that scanlation was directly hurting their business. Actual, trackable evidence that more people are reading manga online than ever, but fewer people than ever are actually buying anything. Sure it's correlation, but what do you want from me? Internal memos from a scanlation group to intentionally sabotage publisher releases?
And you're saying, "no, it's really helping them" as they close up shop.
I never said the money gotten on the aggregate sites would go to publishers. You really like putting words in people's mouths, that's the third time now. However, it is disgusting that they can make that much money with misappropriated material.
And I've interacted with people that run these sites, from being on the side of scanlation. They know it's a scam. One of them was started by a 22-year old dude who got a server with his parents' money then used other people's work on infringed art to get advertising to pay for a new laptop. I know groups who would fight with each other for the first release of a shonen jump comic because only the first one would make the aggregate and they put donation links in the comic pages. Scanlation isn't just some force for the spread of Naruto and Inu Yasha run by like-minded fans of comic books. There's a lot of greedy and petty people who don't care about the artist whose money they're ripping off. One of the reasons I stopped scanlating was because I fucking hated half the people I worked with.
Aaronrules380
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151376186]You don't get to say that and then ramble on about your own unsubstantiated arguments for scanlation. At least I gave examples from people running publishing companies who had reason to believe that scanlation was directly hurting their business. Actual, trackable evidence that more people are reading manga online than ever, but fewer people than ever are actually buying anything. Sure it's correlation, but what do you want from me? Internal memos from a scanlation group to intentionally sabotage publisher releases?
And you're saying, "no, it's really helping them" as they close up shop.
I never said the money gotten on the aggregate sites would go to publishers. You really like putting words in people's mouths, that's the third time now. However, it is disgusting that they can make that much money with misappropriated material.
And I've interacted with people that run these sites, from being on the side of scanlation. They know it's a scam. One of them was started by a 22-year old dude who got a server with his parents' money then used other people's work on infringed art to get advertising to pay for a new laptop. I know groups who would fight with each other for the first release of a shonen jump comic because only the first one would make the aggregate and they put donation links in the comic pages. Scanlation isn't just some force for the spread of Naruto and Inu Yasha run by like-minded fans of comic books. There's a lot of greedy and petty people who don't care about the artist whose money they're ripping off. One of the reasons I stopped scanlating was because I fucking hated half the people I worked with.[/QUOTE]
Again, I'm not arguing there aren't a lot of really scummy practices involved in scanlation groups and sites. Sites like Mangapanda are scum can honestly go die in a fire for all I care. That doesn't mean scanlations as a whole are necessarily going to be harmful for the industry. Furthermore, a lot of shit happened in concert with the rise of scanlations that the decline in sales could also be attributed to, most notably the fall of anime blocks on popular tv stations, which had been ongoing for a while and is important because most foreign fans got into manga through anime. Furthermore, an initial negative impact still doesn't necessarily imply long term negatives. The fact that it's forced many manga publishers to change their business models could very easily lead to a long term benefit for the industry (although no, I don't think it'll rise up to the peaks it once had, but I'd really attribute that more to changes in the mainstream awareness of anime and manga as TV stations stopped airing anime)
And you're saying, "no, it's really helping them" as they close up shop.
I never said the money gotten on the aggregate sites would go to publishers. You really like putting words in people's mouths, that's the third time now. However, it is disgusting that they can make that much money with misappropriated material.
And I've interacted with people that run these sites, from being on the side of scanlation. They know it's a scam. One of them was started by a 22-year old dude who got a server with his parents' money then used other people's work on infringed art to get advertising to pay for a new laptop. I know groups who would fight with each other for the first release of a shonen jump comic because only the first one would make the aggregate and they put donation links in the comic pages. Scanlation isn't just some force for the spread of Naruto and Inu Yasha run by like-minded fans of comic books. There's a lot of greedy and petty people who don't care about the artist whose money they're ripping off. One of the reasons I stopped scanlating was because I fucking hated half the people I worked with.[/QUOTE]
Again, I'm not arguing there aren't a lot of really scummy practices involved in scanlation groups and sites. Sites like Mangapanda are scum can honestly go die in a fire for all I care. That doesn't mean scanlations as a whole are necessarily going to be harmful for the industry. Furthermore, a lot of shit happened in concert with the rise of scanlations that the decline in sales could also be attributed to, most notably the fall of anime blocks on popular tv stations, which had been ongoing for a while and is important because most foreign fans got into manga through anime. Furthermore, an initial negative impact still doesn't necessarily imply long term negatives. The fact that it's forced many manga publishers to change their business models could very easily lead to a long term benefit for the industry (although no, I don't think it'll rise up to the peaks it once had, but I'd really attribute that more to changes in the mainstream awareness of anime and manga as TV stations stopped airing anime)
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