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[Grizzlyjin]

I'm glad the kid at least made it out okay. Meeks has gone down a pretty dark path, so many bodies can be attributed to his spying. Lord High Executioner indeed.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

New episode tonight!

Human Error

Spoiler

As the project falters, Charlie turns to an unlikely partner for help.

 

[firehawk12]

So, I don't know if you can spoiler history, but I assume this season has to be the end of the series with a confrontation between Frank and Charlie about the deployment of the bomb. It just becomes a matter of who does the "screwing" at this point, Charlie or the military.

While I think this season is an improvement over the first, I think the spy stuff is such an unnecessary distraction. Basically any time Frank is not on screen, the show becomes a chore.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

While I think this season is an improvement over the first, I think the spy stuff is such an unnecessary distraction. Basically any time Frank is not on screen, the show becomes a chore.

I'm actually really digging the increased focus on the spy stuff - it's a much more entertaining B plot than the soapy stuff that permeated every corner of season one.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm actually really digging the increased focus on the spy stuff - it's a much more entertaining B plot than the soapy stuff that permeated every corner of season one.

At least there are no random lesbian hijinks. Although anything with the wife is still kind of bad.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

At least there are no random lesbian hijinks. Although anything with the wife is still kind of bad.

They've definitely toned down the series' soapier aspects this year, for which I am very thankful.

 

[jerry113]

typing as i watch:

- wow, hitler already dead? the writers are really speeding through the timeline and season 2 isn't even over yet.

- nice to see frank and charlie get to work on the problem right away. no prolonged conflict.

- geez charlie's father was raymond's brother from everybody loves raymond isn't he? didn't know he had these kind of acting chops. scary guy.

- Wow Sid Lao reference by Frank. He still feels bad about it. Been awhile, thought they forgot that character. Sign of good writing that the writers have faith in the audience to remember a minor character from the first two episodes.

- This series has a tragic feel to it because Frank's trying to prevent the death of innocents - something we the audience know will happen no matter what. One has to hope his character doesn't commit suicide in the final episode.

 

[Dan]

- Wow Sid Lao reference by Frank. He still feels bad about it. Been awhile, thought they forgot that character. Sign of good writing that the writers have faith in the audience to remember a minor character from the first two episodes.

Sid was mentioned earlier in the episode by Meeks and what's-her-face, and in a few other episodes this year. His death is the whole impetus behind Meeks going to the Russians so long ago.

So, I don't know if you can spoiler history, but I assume this season has to be the end of the series with a confrontation between Frank and Charlie about the deployment of the bomb. It just becomes a matter of who does the "screwing" at this point, Charlie or the military.

It all seems a little moot to me, the notion that any single scientific voice on the Target/Interim Committee (which one do they keep referencing? I'm mixing it up) is going to convince everyone else to risk so much on an isolated demonstration of the atomic bomb. Frank believing he can accomplish that is pie-in-the-sky idealism. I'd probably prefer to see more contemplation on the inevitable use of the bomb on people, than the futile belief that anything else might occur.

 

[firehawk12]

It all seems a little moot to me, the notion that any single scientific voice on the Target/Interim Committee (which one do they keep referencing? I'm mixing it up) is going to convince everyone else to risk so much on an isolated demonstration of the atomic bomb. Frank believing he can accomplish that is pie-in-the-sky idealism. I'd probably prefer to see more contemplation on the inevitable use of the bomb on people, than the futile belief that anything else might occur.

Well, the debate about whether or not to drop on an uninhabited target was real:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Proposed_demonstration

But of course they're going to gussy it up so that Frank feels betrayed in some manner.

 

[Dan]

Well, the debate about whether or not to drop on an uninhabited target was real:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Proposed_demonstration

But of course they're going to gussy it up so that Frank feels betrayed in some manner.

Oh sure, it definitely happened. But it didn't really find any traction except among a couple scientists, right? By all means fight the good fight, but did those few have any real confidence that military men would see more value in a demonstration than hitting a city? It's hard for me to even imagine that participating in that debate felt anything but futile.

Frank is either woefully naive, or enjoying an unhealthy amount of denial. I'd like to see a crack in there. That he knows what will be decided, and it's devastating.

 

[firehawk12]

Oh sure, it definitely happened. But it didn't really find any traction except among a couple scientists, right? By all means fight the good fight, but did those few have any real confidence that military men would see more value in a demonstration than hitting a city? It's hard for me to even imagine that participating in that debate felt anything but futile.

Frank is either woefully naive, or enjoying an unhealthy amount of denial. I'd like to see a crack in there. That he knows what will be decided, and it's devastating.

They present him as an idealist who has the power to steer history. Although strangely it's clear the project would have collapsed without him, at least as presented in the story, so he really should have just left and the project just would have failed.

 

[Dan]

Sure, at various points this season it seems he's saved the day. Frank suggests at the end of this episode that Isaacs would eventually figure it out, but Frank's still pushing things along.

There's probably more material to mine in the battle between Frank's ego's need to complete the bomb and his moral thoughts on the bomb's potential uses than in Frank versus the military brass.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I'm posting blindly, but I just binged Season 1. And just started season 2.


I'm a huge Robert Oppenheimer, and nuclear weapon history fan, so this series is like crack.

 

[firehawk12]

Wow. So stupid family drama is what caused the drop in this version of the universe. lol

 

[rocketskates]

Shit just got real yo

 

[dead souls]

Damn great episode. I wish I could watch the finale right now.

 

[jerry113]

Best episode of the series? I think so.

 

[SeanC]

Best episode of the series? I think so.

Charlie's speech alone kind of wins it for me.

 

[dead souls]

Charlie's speech alone kind of wins it for me.

Yeah, that's a scene that will stick with you.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Playing catch up so I can be ready for the finale.

Episode 8: I knew Frank would be behind the misfire. Not like they tried to hide it, but it was Frank being Frank.

Oh okay, I see you Mr. 007. I was actually surprised that Paul ended up being a double agent. I bounce back and forth between liking his character, despite how much of a worm he can be. So I'm relieved the noose was never really around his neck. He's like Pete from Mad Men, you hate him but you love him. I should have realized that something was up when Abby went to Col. Darrow and he sorta just shrugged it off.

Meeks is having a serious crisis of conscience. I'm starting to think that flashforward is him undoing some sort of sabotage now.

Onward to Episode 9. Penultimate episode if I'm not mistaken.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I'm not quite sure if I fully understand why Charlie went scorched Earth re: Japan at that meeting...

Damn great episode. I wish I could watch the finale right now.

Yeah, I too am hankering for the finale right now.

 

[SeanC]

I'm not quite sure if I fully understand why Charlie went scorched Earth re: Japan at that meeting...

He's pretty much saying that they can't drop the bomb and pretend they won't be vilified. They have to embrace the fact it's pretty much a war crime it if they're going to do it and own the consequences. They can't say "it'll end the war" as an excuse to justify it.

Basically he doesn't want people pretending it's something it's not. He's actually on board with Frank in that respect, but unlike Frank he thinks being monsters is worth ending the war and, though it's total BS as history has shown, it will scare people enough to never want to do it again.

Edit: I got the impression he's extremely angry about it too. Like a "damned if we do, damned if we don't...monsters and horrible people either way" that just pisses him off.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

He's pretty much saying that they can't drop the bomb and pretend they won't be vilified. They have to embrace the fact it's pretty much a war crime it if they're going to do it and own the consequences. They can't say "it'll end the war" as an excuse to justify it.

Basically he doesn't want people pretending it's something it's not. He's actually on board with Frank in that respect, but unlike Frank he thinks being monsters is worth ending the war and, though it's total BS as history has shown, it will scare people enough to never want to do it again.

I meant, what drove him to come to that conclusion in the first place? Wasn't he leaning towards Frank's side up until then?

 

[SeanC]

I meant, what drove him to come to that conclusion in the first place? Wasn't he leaning towards Frank's side up until then?

The stuff about his son, I thought? He's willing to kill children to save his child's own future?

That's what I thought, anyways.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm not quite sure if I fully understand why Charlie went scorched Earth re: Japan at that meeting...

Yeah, I too am hankering for the finale right now.

He's pretty much saying that they can't drop the bomb and pretend they won't be vilified. They have to embrace the fact it's pretty much a war crime it if they're going to do it and own the consequences. They can't say "it'll end the war" as an excuse to justify it.

Basically he doesn't want people pretending it's something it's not. He's actually on board with Frank in that respect, but unlike Frank he thinks being monsters is worth ending the war and, though it's total BS as history has shown, it will scare people enough to never want to do it again.

Edit: I got the impression he's extremely angry about it too. Like a "damned if we do, damned if we don't...monsters and horrible people either way" that just pisses him off.

In the fiction of the show, he was basically confessing to Oppenheimer because his wife pushed him to it by doing her typical meddling crap and sending their son away.

This is why I find it kind of incredible (or incredulous) that they'd basically place this entire decision on a small piece of family drama. I'm sure Frank is fucked too, since Charlie will presumably have no time whatsoever for him. Maybe he martyrs himself to save Russian spy dude.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

The finale is tonight!

Jupiter

Spoiler

A new era is ushered in with the first test of an atomic weapon.

 

[dead souls]

That was a goddamn brutal finale.

Poor Fritz.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

That was some dark shit, yo - Fritz killed himself after learning that his best friend was responsible for his wife's death; Helen is on the USS Indianapolis, 'bout to get et by sharks; Abby took her son and left Charlie; the dawn of the nuclear age...

I hope the show gets renewed, but if it doesn't, that is one hell of a way to end a series!

 

[Dan]

Very strong finale. Great closing sequences.

Fritz was left with nothing. Damn you, Meeks!

 

[RatskyWatsky]

That wasn't written to be the series finale btw:

There’s a lot more story to tell, and we hope to tell it to a bigger audience next season. TV is a business of best laid plans -- you have to be flexible, and live every week as if it's Shark Week -- but I’ve always said that in some ways I’m most interested in what happens after the bombs are dropped, when our characters emerge from the (relative) moral clarity of a race against fascism into the fog of a Cold War arms race. Tommy likes to joke that I have an itchy trigger-finger, and would have dropped the bomb in episode 4 if left to my own devices. That's not quite true, but, for me, the end of Season 2 is still the beginning of the series. The weirdest, most exciting, most complicated material is still ahead.

the plan has always been for the bombings in Japan to bisect the series: before and after. Season 3 would begin to tell a story about what happens to the characters when Los Alamos is transformed, overnight, from the world's best kept secret to its most famous city.

Our great consultant Alex Wellerstein always says his favorite chunk of the history is the period immediately after the war. Mine too!

Source

 

[dead souls]

That wasn't written to be the series finale btw:
Source

Yeah, I read that Sepinwall article and all I could think was, "Damn I really, really, really want this show to get renewed."

 

[jerry113]

- Epic framing device to begin this season with this finale's opening. You really get the sense of tragic history unfolding before your eyes.

- The soundtrack is really something. Usually it's subdued but it comes out when it needs to.

- it's really uncomfortable watching frank and meets fiddle with an atomic bomb

- lolwut the music?!

- Meeks and Franks' interactions in this are the highlight of the season.

Season 2 >>> Season 1. The stakes are so much higher.

- Holy shit everything coming to a head. I hope Fritz doesn't find out the truth - it's too heartbreaking.

- Seeing the soldiers pray before the bomb test is just strange.

- NO MEEKS WHY. JESUS FUCK WHY.

What a disturbing ass way to end the season. Ominous as fuck.

Series summed up in one macro:

We really need a renewal. I don't want the series to end on such a downer note. There's so much more they could explore - the cold war spy games, for one thing.

The Knick, The Americans, and Manhattan are three great TV shows airing right now that are super underappreciated. All 3 deserve a bigger audience than they hold. I don't know why so few people are watching - perhaps their cable networks are just unknown to viewers.

 

[mrklaw]

on related news (and attempting to avoid spoilers), fuck BT for buying this exclusively for their stupid AMC channel in the UK. They'll only start showing season 1 in January 2016, but you can only watch it if you buy stupid BT broadband and get their shitty freeview box. So fucking stupid.

 

[jerry113]

This season only had THREE pages on neogaf?! D:

edit: the entire TWO seasons?!

 

[mrklaw]

Should have been Manhattan |OT| - Someone set us up the bomb

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

In case anyone is wondering
Zoe Keating Legions (War)

Though I much preferred the first season's music by Alex and Jonsi.

 

[samn]

I love the subject matter but I got bored/confused around episode 7 of the first season and put it aside. Is it worth watching season 2?

 

[dead souls]

This season only had THREE pages on neogaf?! D:

edit: the entire TWO seasons?!

Have you ever looked up the ratings for this show?

Nobody watches it. It's pretty sad considering the quality.

 

[firehawk12]

This episode is all I wanted the show to be. It's basically what Copenhagen was about.

It's too bad you had all that boring family drama and spycraft stuff that went nowhere get in the way.

 

[jerry113]

I love the subject matter but I got bored/confused around episode 7 of the first season and put it aside. Is it worth watching season 2?

Season 2 drops most of the soap opera-esque stuff from the first season and focuses more on building the bomb, the morality tale behind using or not using the bomb, and introduces some soviet spy games.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

What a dark ending. It felt oddly unresolved though. Yeah, this is the moment it has been leading to for two seasons, and there aren't any huge unresolved plot threads, but I feel like there was a little more story to tell. I expected like 5 more minutes after the test. Definitely see where they can keep going for Season 3 now.

 

[orioto]

Well that was a hell of a season finale.

 

[CzarTim]

Canceled :-/

http://tvline.com/2016/02/03/manhattan-cancelled-season-3-wgn-america/

 

[Dan]

On the one hand, it's a shame it's over since the show was good-to-great and I was curious to see what they'd do next. On the other hand, it goes out on a high note and with the event the whole series had been driving towards. It might be for the best.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

On the one hand, it's a shame it's over since the show was good-to-great and I was curious to see what they'd do next. On the other hand, it goes out on a high note and with the event the whole series had been driving towards. It might be for the best.

Agreed. It ended on a very cool note so I'm not too sad to say goodbye.