Skittzo0413
Member
I want to see Reznor in 3D. They're so underutilized even in 2D Mario... I mean, why are they relegated to boss duty? They're excellent platforming obstacles wherever they're used.
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Mario Community Thread: Anything and everything Super Mario
- Thread starter Ninja Dom
- Start date
I want to see Reznor in 3D. They're so underutilized even in 2D Mario... I mean, why are they relegated to boss duty? They're excellent platforming obstacles wherever they're used.
mobilesworking
Member
Nintendo Guide 2016 (I think)
These are *fantastic.* Thanks for sharing them.
Are Rex the smaller Dinos? Their cousin Dino Rhino showed up in Color Splash. That was a welcome surprise.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Rex is the dragon you stomp on in Super Mario World that flattens them. The miniature Dino Rhino is Mini-Rhino, or called Dino Torch.
Rex popped up in Super Princess Peach and Mario & Luigi but otherwise hasn't appeared since Super Mario World.
Draggadon seems like it's meant to be a similar species (Rex is "Dorabon" in Japan) though, as does Draglet (Meragon in Japan) from 3D Land.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Yes.
I'm still daring to hope that we may see more Sub-con/8-bits refugees show up, someday.
Of all the classic Mario games, 2/USA is still the one that's most ripe to be mined for nostalgia material, in my opinion. It's why I still hope Mouser, Fry Guy and hell, maybe even Wart himself may find a way back into the mix, someday.
minkymuskyslyoldstoaty
Member
Great thread. Super MarioLand was my first Mario game, unless you count Donkey Kong Game and Watches, or Mario's Cement Factory. Super MarioLand only had twelve stages, but it was quite a challenge. I've played it so much I can usually finish it on one life now.
Never played Sunshine - will have to have a look for that. Love Galaxy 2, World, 3D Land, 3D World and Maker.
Never played Sunshine - will have to have a look for that. Love Galaxy 2, World, 3D Land, 3D World and Maker.
MrSaturn99
Member
From Japan's official SMW guide:
TheMoon
Member
Great game.
RIP dream. He's not.
Wario does not appear in Mario platformers.
That era is long gone.
I'd love to see Ostro come back in 3D. There's a significant lack of bird enemies in Mario games.
Green Mamba
Member
Which is kind of strange, because a lot of the modern New Super Mario Bros. aesthetic can actually sort of be traced to Super Mario 64 DS, a game that had Wario among the four main playable characters and had a boss that originated in Paper Mario even.
Let's talk about the most stylish character in the Mario franchise and how she's literally better than trash Daisy in every way.
Mario Community Thread question of the day.
What was your first Mario game?
Super Mario World. Incidentally also my first game.
Before I rank, New Super Mario Bros is considered 2D, yes?
Megatron
Member
Give me all the smb2 bosses: wart, mouser, triclyde and of course, Birdo.
Mario Community Thread question of the day.
What was your first Mario game?
Super Mario brothers on the NES I got Christmas Day.
Mario Community Thread Question of the Weekend
What's your favorite use of Boos in any Mario game?
Oh, that is awesome. Thanks for the info! Dragaddon and Draglets are really cute characters... oh! I didn't answer yesterday's question.
I would be so delighted to see Bumpties make the jump to 3D. These romping penguins have been romping and bopping since Yoshi's Island but to date have not appeared in a true 3D game.
I think hey hold a lot of potential as a kund of enemy we haven't been much in 3D Mario games, that is to say an enemy whose inherent charm is bumping into everything and creating delightful havoc as a result. I think that could lead to some interesand heretofore unseen kind of level design in a 3D Mario game.
Yeah, it really is gorgeous! Thanks for the screens. I forget just how pretty it is.
What's your favorite use of Boos in any Mario game?
Oh, that is awesome. Thanks for the info! Dragaddon and Draglets are really cute characters... oh! I didn't answer yesterday's question.
I would be so delighted to see Bumpties make the jump to 3D. These romping penguins have been romping and bopping since Yoshi's Island but to date have not appeared in a true 3D game.
I think hey hold a lot of potential as a kund of enemy we haven't been much in 3D Mario games, that is to say an enemy whose inherent charm is bumping into everything and creating delightful havoc as a result. I think that could lead to some interesand heretofore unseen kind of level design in a 3D Mario game.
Yeah, it really is gorgeous! Thanks for the screens. I forget just how pretty it is.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I think it'd be cool if a future Luigi's Mansion had an ally Boo who'd help Luigi, maybe controlled by P2?
Speaking of Luigi's Mansion I was kind of hoping Polterpup would become canonized as Luigi's dog and pop up in future games (like hanging out at the Mario house in Paper Jam), hope that still happens. He's cute. At least Poochy is getting some love though with his bigger role and Amiibo in the 3DS Yarn Yoshi.
Speaking of Luigi's Mansion I was kind of hoping Polterpup would become canonized as Luigi's dog and pop up in future games (like hanging out at the Mario house in Paper Jam), hope that still happens. He's cute. At least Poochy is getting some love though with his bigger role and Amiibo in the 3DS Yarn Yoshi.
Green Mamba
Member
This is it, this is the best Boo design bar none.
EndlessFloydian
Member
I seriously hope Nintendo re-releases Mario Sunshine and the first two Paper Mario games on the Switch in either remastered form or VC form.
Megatron
Member
I agree. I'm ready to play sunshine again. I hope we get gc titles on the vc. Or remasteres.
Boos? They are good in almost everything they do honestly, be it karting, tennis, party members in RPG or just being your enemy.
However, I think I'll throw my vote for Boos in Mario Party (at least, the first ones). Nothing breaks a friendship more than stealing a star from someone.
However, I think I'll throw my vote for Boos in Mario Party (at least, the first ones). Nothing breaks a friendship more than stealing a star from someone.
Does Luigi Mansion count as a 'Mario' game?
Right now I'm playing through Luigi Mansion 2 for the first time. I'm loving it. I love how the Boo's are the main antagonists at the moment. I'm up to the third Mansion so I don't know if things will change.
For the NES Classic Mini is the Donkey Kong on there the three screen original NES version or the newly updated 4 screen version?
cantona222
Member
Was that moment in that thread the first documented moment in the internet to document the bush/cloud in SMB?
I think so, it was the first time I'd ever heard of it.
Mario Community Thread Question of the Weekend
What's your favorite use of Boos in any Mario game?
The boo mansion in Paper Mario 64 is one of my favourite Paper Mario place, it's a huge manor filled with secrets and tricks made by its residents.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I like Boo's new laugh over the N64 laugh. It's an actual voice versus just a sped up Bowser roar, and it sounds more organic.
Although it's always funny when some random new spin off uses the old Boo cackle. Because it's so dated.
Although it's always funny when some random new spin off uses the old Boo cackle. Because it's so dated.
Nocturnowl
Member
One of my favourite boos by far is the underused and probably quite unknown Boohemoth
Puts a neat twist on the autoscroller concept, will one hit kill you, can build up the courage to edge forward when being looked at and just looks flat out hilarious.
NSMB2's greatest addition.
Runner up Boo point: The punny names in Luigi's Mansion, Mr Boojangles!
Puts a neat twist on the autoscroller concept, will one hit kill you, can build up the courage to edge forward when being looked at and just looks flat out hilarious.
NSMB2's greatest addition.
Runner up Boo point: The punny names in Luigi's Mansion, Mr Boojangles!
Sure it does. I was salty enough at the GameCube launch lineup not having a Mario game that I counted Luigi's Mansion. I'd love to have another console version.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Luigi's Mansion has been adopted 100% into the Mario main game line. There's tons of references to the game across all the 3D platformers and Luigi's Mansion basically reinvented the Mario concept of a Boo house and rocketed Boos to popularity. During the GCN and Wii days, Boos were playable in everything. The Wii U era they sort of tapered off with playable Boo, but with Mario Kart Switch and the recent Mario Amiibo line (every other main character in the series + inexplicably, Boo. Who has an action feature!), Boos are back in action.
Also Camelot seems to absolutely love Boo, and maybe that's part of the reason they're so popular, as well. They throw Boo into every sports game they make as a playable character.
64DS is a weird game in general, also having upright Yoshi playable. Really curious how they snuck that past Miyamoto.
Nocturnowl
Member
Just saw this gif in the OP of another thread
There you go Max, that's the SMG2 bit I was on about a few pages back.
There you go Max, that's the SMG2 bit I was on about a few pages back.
Nostremitus
Member
I'm still waiting for Nintendo to make a 2D Mario on par with SM World again...
... it's been a long wait.
NSMBU was pretty good, but still not at that level.
... it's been a long wait.
NSMBU was pretty good, but still not at that level.
Doubt it. I noticed it long before I was a member of GAF and I'm sure anyone who played with SMB sprites had also noticed it.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I'm still pissed E. Gadd hasn't been playable in any spin-off, dude should've been in Mario Kart years ago.
TheMoon
Member
My first Mario game! I didn't even know who Mario was before my Dad got this for me as a kid:
Yes!!!!
I have that too. Still got it and it works fine. All with box. It wasn't my first Mario game but I put a LOT of time into this as a kid.
I would love to get this for my collection one day.
I dunno. As great as Super Mario World is, I don't have any real desire to play through that game anytime soon. Now when that game came out that was my absolute favourite game ever. And during an era of no internet, trying to get all 96 levels was some of the best gaming ever.
But nowadays I'd rather start a NSMB U play through rather than a SMW play through.
Yeah, E. Gadd is some superb character design. I feel that for a character as good as he is, he deserves far more appearances in other games.
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
Something that will probably be very controversial but I can't think of a better place to put it.
I really don't like any of the 3D Mario games.
And by that I mean 64, Galaxy, Sunshine and pretty much every other modern mario title with 3d movement. Hell, even the New Super Mario Bros. franchise is pretty bad.
I was a huge fan of Super Mario World and SMB3 when I was a kid. I played both daily as a child and still pick them up every now and again today, but since those days every Mario game has felt so hollow and flavourless.
But even beyond things like just subjective taste, I feel like they're kind of poorly designed games. Much like the Pokemon series it rests on its laurels and sells well due to familiarity and not changing too much. I want this to be a critical discussion of the Mario games and not just be me hating on them so hopefully you guys can try and see I'm not trashing the games and trying to start an argument but foster critical discussion about the design of these games.
SM64 has a lot of problems, but I can forgive those in the sense that it was pretty much the first foray into the 3D platformer genre. I also get the nostalgia associated with it, and some of the music tracks are legendary. I personally don't like the game, I feel like the Star mechanic in and of itself is flawed and counter-productive for being a game's main progression system. The whole "play this level several times but slightly different" to get each star is so lazy It's artificial lengthening of the level, particularly with forcing you to exit and re-enter the stage each time.
I get what they were doing with Galaxy and Sunshine. They added a new mechanic (relative gravity and increased platforming options respectively) but ultimately they are very similar games to SM64 with similar problems. Each progression point in the game is a chore. "Go collect this arbitrary number of Star/Shines and you can progress to doing more of them!" The player has no reason for doing so other than to be able to continue doing so. I get that you don't need a strong reason to go platforming but other games do it so effortlessly that I just don't understand why Mario's lack of a motivation is so easily forgiven.
As for the modern 2D games they're even worse. They lack even the new mechanic element that the 3D games capitalizes on and it's just straight up platforming for platforming's sake. The levels don't feel unique or memorable, they're just an obstacle course of progressively more difficult tasks. It's more like a platforming exam than a game. It's like the Mario games are designed as "baby's first platformer" so the player can learn how to play the genre so they can tackle more interesting and dynamic games.
I assume that the argument is "The intrinsic fun of the levels is its own reward" and I guess that's subjective enough to be inarguable and I accept that. But I can't help compare to other platformers both 2D and 3D that do it so much better.
Psychonauts is my favourite game of all time, and while I will be the first to admit that it's not a perfect game it is literally the complete opposite of the Mario games that I have trouble accepting they're in the same genre. Here's two of the main things that make Psychonauts one of the best 3D platformers out there:
1. Player Motivation - The game has a narrative, first and foremost. But beyond that, the narrative coincides with the player's desires. Various mental abilities are shown in the game, and naturally the player and the main character want to play with and experiment with those abilities. Immediately the player has a reason to be invested in the character and their motivation to go through the games levels to earn the abilities. It's never arbitrary, you are always given a clear focus for why you are going through the levels.
2. Differences in Kind - Each level of the game feels different at its core. The platforming aspects of each level aren't just more difficult than the last but they are also a different kind of challenge and not just "harder timing, faster reflexes, more enemies". Some are more puzzle oriented, some require exploration some are focused on combat while others focus on speed and many of the later levels deliver on multiple aspects of all of these to create even further differences in kind. Each level feels like it's own unique type of challenge without ever feeling detached from the whole experience.
But Psychonauts is a very different type of platformer and not the "collectathon" style that the Mario games are so lets look at another game, Banjo Kazooie.
On the surface, Banjo Kazooie and the 3D Mario games seem very similar but there are a few key mechanical and narrative differences that make BK so much more engaging (again, all statements like this should be prefaced with "in my opinion")
But first, looking at some the similarities:
- Collect several thingies in each world in order to progress to further worlds
- Save [Character] from [Bad Guy] is the narrative motivation
- Execution-based difficulty
- Isolated worlds within a hub
They seem very similar types of games, so why does Banjo Kazooie feel so much different to 3D Mario? The answer, in my opinion, is flow.
3D Mario games have some of the worst senses of flow and interconnectedness of any high-end game I've ever played. The Hub world is so disconnected from that of the individual levels that it is so apparently an excuse. An overt and obvious vehicle to get from one isolated segment of game to another.
Each world in Banjo Kazooie is part of this magical castle owned by a witch. "It's Magic", in the case of a game whose antagonist is literally a witch is plenty of an excuse for the "arbitrary" levels in her castle, and on top of that the hub world doesn't feel isolated from each of its individual worlds. The simple fact that there are physical entrances to these places already integrates them into this castle, and having the castle itself be infested with enemies and platforming dangers increases this feeling of flow.
3D mario games have two completely distinct areas. There's the safe hub area which is a glorified menu for level select, and then there's "Gameplay segments" where you're inside a level and given an arbitrary goal to complete to earn a thing. Then you have to re-enter the level to be told of the new thing to go for. It's so stop-start-stop-start and it feels like you are checking things off a checklist rather than accomplishing anything. And that's because you literally are checking them off a checklist (except you can only see one thing at a time)
Banjo Kazooie gives you a world to explore, it allows you to learn about the level and discover its areas and secrets. You aren't told what to do, but the game intuitively leads you to each of its accomplishable goals and the player can tackle them in any order they choose. They don't have to do every single one, and so whichever goals they happen upon and complete first they can do. The player feels like they're discovering and earning each of these trophies of progress, and at any time they can progress in the hub world and know exactly how many more they need to get to the next area. They can go to previous worlds and find things they missed, they can swap between worlds if they're feeling bogged down by a specific challenge, or even within a world they can try something else if any one of the 10 in-world challenges proves too difficult. The player is given all of the control and they get to feel empowered through their own exploration of the game and its worlds and secrets. It never stops, the player is never taken out of the game experience to choose "what should I do next?" they just get to go do it.
So I guess in conclusion on 3D Mario games that's my problem. I feel like they have no flow, I feel like they give you arbitrary goals and no motivation to go through them. The game makes me aware of itself as a game and I never feel absorbed by the experience. I never feel like I get to control my actions. The game never challenges me as a player, it simply challenges my learning of the skills I should know. As I said, it feels like a school exam for "Platforming".
Discuss.
I really don't like any of the 3D Mario games.
And by that I mean 64, Galaxy, Sunshine and pretty much every other modern mario title with 3d movement. Hell, even the New Super Mario Bros. franchise is pretty bad.
I was a huge fan of Super Mario World and SMB3 when I was a kid. I played both daily as a child and still pick them up every now and again today, but since those days every Mario game has felt so hollow and flavourless.
But even beyond things like just subjective taste, I feel like they're kind of poorly designed games. Much like the Pokemon series it rests on its laurels and sells well due to familiarity and not changing too much. I want this to be a critical discussion of the Mario games and not just be me hating on them so hopefully you guys can try and see I'm not trashing the games and trying to start an argument but foster critical discussion about the design of these games.
SM64 has a lot of problems, but I can forgive those in the sense that it was pretty much the first foray into the 3D platformer genre. I also get the nostalgia associated with it, and some of the music tracks are legendary. I personally don't like the game, I feel like the Star mechanic in and of itself is flawed and counter-productive for being a game's main progression system. The whole "play this level several times but slightly different" to get each star is so lazy It's artificial lengthening of the level, particularly with forcing you to exit and re-enter the stage each time.
I get what they were doing with Galaxy and Sunshine. They added a new mechanic (relative gravity and increased platforming options respectively) but ultimately they are very similar games to SM64 with similar problems. Each progression point in the game is a chore. "Go collect this arbitrary number of Star/Shines and you can progress to doing more of them!" The player has no reason for doing so other than to be able to continue doing so. I get that you don't need a strong reason to go platforming but other games do it so effortlessly that I just don't understand why Mario's lack of a motivation is so easily forgiven.
As for the modern 2D games they're even worse. They lack even the new mechanic element that the 3D games capitalizes on and it's just straight up platforming for platforming's sake. The levels don't feel unique or memorable, they're just an obstacle course of progressively more difficult tasks. It's more like a platforming exam than a game. It's like the Mario games are designed as "baby's first platformer" so the player can learn how to play the genre so they can tackle more interesting and dynamic games.
I assume that the argument is "The intrinsic fun of the levels is its own reward" and I guess that's subjective enough to be inarguable and I accept that. But I can't help compare to other platformers both 2D and 3D that do it so much better.
Psychonauts is my favourite game of all time, and while I will be the first to admit that it's not a perfect game it is literally the complete opposite of the Mario games that I have trouble accepting they're in the same genre. Here's two of the main things that make Psychonauts one of the best 3D platformers out there:
1. Player Motivation - The game has a narrative, first and foremost. But beyond that, the narrative coincides with the player's desires. Various mental abilities are shown in the game, and naturally the player and the main character want to play with and experiment with those abilities. Immediately the player has a reason to be invested in the character and their motivation to go through the games levels to earn the abilities. It's never arbitrary, you are always given a clear focus for why you are going through the levels.
2. Differences in Kind - Each level of the game feels different at its core. The platforming aspects of each level aren't just more difficult than the last but they are also a different kind of challenge and not just "harder timing, faster reflexes, more enemies". Some are more puzzle oriented, some require exploration some are focused on combat while others focus on speed and many of the later levels deliver on multiple aspects of all of these to create even further differences in kind. Each level feels like it's own unique type of challenge without ever feeling detached from the whole experience.
But Psychonauts is a very different type of platformer and not the "collectathon" style that the Mario games are so lets look at another game, Banjo Kazooie.
On the surface, Banjo Kazooie and the 3D Mario games seem very similar but there are a few key mechanical and narrative differences that make BK so much more engaging (again, all statements like this should be prefaced with "in my opinion")
But first, looking at some the similarities:
- Collect several thingies in each world in order to progress to further worlds
- Save [Character] from [Bad Guy] is the narrative motivation
- Execution-based difficulty
- Isolated worlds within a hub
They seem very similar types of games, so why does Banjo Kazooie feel so much different to 3D Mario? The answer, in my opinion, is flow.
3D Mario games have some of the worst senses of flow and interconnectedness of any high-end game I've ever played. The Hub world is so disconnected from that of the individual levels that it is so apparently an excuse. An overt and obvious vehicle to get from one isolated segment of game to another.
Each world in Banjo Kazooie is part of this magical castle owned by a witch. "It's Magic", in the case of a game whose antagonist is literally a witch is plenty of an excuse for the "arbitrary" levels in her castle, and on top of that the hub world doesn't feel isolated from each of its individual worlds. The simple fact that there are physical entrances to these places already integrates them into this castle, and having the castle itself be infested with enemies and platforming dangers increases this feeling of flow.
3D mario games have two completely distinct areas. There's the safe hub area which is a glorified menu for level select, and then there's "Gameplay segments" where you're inside a level and given an arbitrary goal to complete to earn a thing. Then you have to re-enter the level to be told of the new thing to go for. It's so stop-start-stop-start and it feels like you are checking things off a checklist rather than accomplishing anything. And that's because you literally are checking them off a checklist (except you can only see one thing at a time)
Banjo Kazooie gives you a world to explore, it allows you to learn about the level and discover its areas and secrets. You aren't told what to do, but the game intuitively leads you to each of its accomplishable goals and the player can tackle them in any order they choose. They don't have to do every single one, and so whichever goals they happen upon and complete first they can do. The player feels like they're discovering and earning each of these trophies of progress, and at any time they can progress in the hub world and know exactly how many more they need to get to the next area. They can go to previous worlds and find things they missed, they can swap between worlds if they're feeling bogged down by a specific challenge, or even within a world they can try something else if any one of the 10 in-world challenges proves too difficult. The player is given all of the control and they get to feel empowered through their own exploration of the game and its worlds and secrets. It never stops, the player is never taken out of the game experience to choose "what should I do next?" they just get to go do it.
So I guess in conclusion on 3D Mario games that's my problem. I feel like they have no flow, I feel like they give you arbitrary goals and no motivation to go through them. The game makes me aware of itself as a game and I never feel absorbed by the experience. I never feel like I get to control my actions. The game never challenges me as a player, it simply challenges my learning of the skills I should know. As I said, it feels like a school exam for "Platforming".
Discuss.
My first Mario game! I didn't even know who Mario was before my Dad got this for me as a kid:
Oh damn, I still have this. I ordered one off ebay over a decade ago...at the time, I didn't realize I already owned the keychain rerelease
This is slightly Mario related so I'll bring this up here. I think it would be really cool if Nintendo reintroduced DK Jr.
I know DKC established Jr. is DK's dad/Grown-up DK, but I think it would be cool if they just threw that out. Diddy has essentially replaced Jr. but I don't feel it has to stay that way. Jr. is a classic Nintendo character and I think his design still has some charm to it. It would be really interesting to see him return and appear alongside Mario and Donkey Kong's cast of characters. Plus it'd be cool to see Donkey Kong in a game with his son again.
I know DKC established Jr. is DK's dad/Grown-up DK, but I think it would be cool if they just threw that out. Diddy has essentially replaced Jr. but I don't feel it has to stay that way. Jr. is a classic Nintendo character and I think his design still has some charm to it. It would be really interesting to see him return and appear alongside Mario and Donkey Kong's cast of characters. Plus it'd be cool to see Donkey Kong in a game with his son again.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Extremely underrated Mario universe games:
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