The full GPU has the improvements
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Mark Cerny on The Verge (GPU, elite controller, etc)
- Thread starter LordOfChaos
- Start date
The full GPU has the improvements
Caayn
Member
That way he can claim that he's right in the future and pat himself on the back
That way he can claim that he's right in the future and pat himself on the back
Like you was right about PS4 not being able to render 4K PS4 games & how it was only upscaling games & the 4K would be for media only?
Checkerboard Render
Banned
++ This. Anyone claiming the Pro tech details actually validate the ridiculous rumors of a 2nd GPU doesn't have a clue.
Is there any chance the Scorpio will have some issues with earlier XB One titles? I mean Sony is highlighting this as thats the sure shot way of keeping backward compatibility... So either MS doing backward compatibility with slightly different architecture proves they are far ahead then Sony on software department or Scorpio will have some trouble with backward compatibility
Tripolygon
Banned
I think the logic is. In essence, they took PS4 GPU, doubled it and enhanced it with some new features. According to Cerny's description, the GPU is layed out as mirror image and one-half can be shot off to emulate PS4.
Yea ya'll need to cut it with this potshots. Dude has been right in some of the things he's said.That way he can claim that he's right in the future and pat himself on the back
Checkerboard Render
Banned
It would be absolute market suicide for the Scorpio to have any significant problem with backward compatibility for Xbone games.
The exact mechanism of this - whether it will uplift existing games in terms of FR consistency without patches, whether patches will be required to see any improvement, or perhaps even a small # of patches will be required for perfect compatibility, are of course unknown at this point. But I can say confidently that unless MS wants to complete decimate any chances there will be 99.9% chance of full backwards compatibility.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
And a broken clock is right twice a day.
If memory serves, he is also is the same poster who tried to float the "MS is inflating Scorpio's numbers and it's really only three teraflops" theory.
You make z-grade claims like that, you rightfully open yourself up to a lot of doubt and criticism.
Caayn
Member
The news about the Pro hasn't changed my mind on him. I've made claims about 4K to which I still stand, I've admitted that there are games coming in 4K that didn't expect (ESO being one of them).
Being vague, coming up with terms and/or ignoring the set definition of terms, throwing shit against a wall to see what sticks, etc. doesn't make me believe someone. You're free to worship him, but don't get upset when not everyone does.
Tripolygon
Banned
In his case he's been right more than twice a day?
And no he didnt say microsoft is inflating Scorpios numbers, he said Microsoft need to give more than just 6TF, they need to specify whether its FP32 or FP16. Either number could be right but they mean different things.
I don't think he cares about what you think about him. And i don't think he's been very vague, he's been as specific as someone who does not have direct access to the design process behind the system could be.
The bolded was uncalled for.
Reach much?
No where have I said this is what MS is doing I said it could be what they are doing because they only said 6TF & I explained how they would get that number.
Instead of being mad at someone for giving you insight you should be asking for more info than just 6TF.
Didn't I tell y'all that PS4 Pro was a 8.4TF FP16 console? That should be enough for y'all to stop being ignorant about TF numbers & ask if it's FP16 or FP32.
12TF Scorpio incoming*
*Using FP16
Do you honestly think Microsoft would release a 3TF using FP32 console in 2017?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
And the Jeff Rigby fan-club thought Jeff was right a lot as well.
He is not a developer or a tech guru, he is an enthusiast, an armchair analyst with a wildly varying knowledge base, therefore the quality and reliability of his theories varies significantly.
There is a reason he hasn't been un-Juniored over the course of the last 4 years.
Tripolygon
Banned
I don't think they will, the backlash would be glorious if they did though.
Would we be looking at Switch level amount of threads? It would be something else especially considering Microsoft has pivoted so hard from their tone deaf period between 2011-2013.
Tripolygon
Banned
Jeff Rigby is not onQ, Jeff literally argued with people who are responsible for creating Xbox One and said they are lying or don't know anything. Only a mod knows why he's not been unjuniored. It could be because he makes lots of speculative threads about technology.
90% of people on this board are not tech gurus nor developers, we just love talking about techs and learning a thing or two from people who know more than US.
Outrun
Member
The gymnastics that some are doing to undermine the Scorpio is astounding....
These tech talks always seem to devolve into console wars under a thin veneer of science.
Proelite
Member
Hmm, double the Rops and no mention from Cerny nor Sony.
They must holding on to this to reveal later during Scorpio's launch to steal some thunder.
I must commend Sony such Batman-level pre-planning.
Tripolygon
Banned
Its not a magic number. PS4 has 32 ROPS times 2 = PS4 Pro
Edit: Dont get me wrong, i dont think PS4 Pro has 64 ROPs considering RX480 has 32, last i checked.
Outrun
Member
No thunder will be stolen. A piece of kit releasing one year after will be better.
The PS5 will be better than the Scorpio. MS cannot hold anything to steal it's thunder.
Omnistalgic
Member
It is...GPU is at 4.2TF.
Cerny just mentioned how specific enhancements can be taken advantage of.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Asking a question is not undermining. I doubt MS will put out a 3tflop console next year but hey, stranger things have happened.
One thing for sure though, they have a kickass team working on backwards compatibility for the 360 to One so I wont be surprised if the same team is developing a superior system than Sony for old One games to get better performances on Scorpio.
oh, so its not a PS4 GPU with another one stuck next to it...thanks...
Locuza
Member
4,2 TF for FP32 and 8,4 if you only use FP16.
You don't need need for every operation FP32 precision, so for some task it might double the speed.
One developer in B3D said for example that for motion blur, tonemapping or depth of field FP16 would be enough.
It's highly unlikely that the PS4 Pro will have 64 ROPs since the bandwidth is way too low to feed all of them, so it would take up die space for no good reasons.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
That Elite controller excuse is weak as piss.
No elite controller which does ZERO to separate the player base but happy to have a Pro console?
No elite controller which does ZERO to separate the player base but happy to have a Pro console?
Of course not, because they said "at release, it will be the most powerful console".
How the fuck is it more powerful if it's 3TF?
Some people...
Tripolygon
Banned
I believe what you are referring to as some people is onQ (single person) saying microsoft could market Scorpio as the most powerful console ever and be right even if it was based on FP16 benchmark. The answer to your question is marketing.
if they talk about fp16 numbers it should be weaker than ps4 pro do you really believe that shit ?
Tripolygon
Banned
Well no i don't believe that shit. Same way Sony did not advertise PS4 Pro as 8.4TF FP16, Microsoft won't be advertising 6TF FP16.
For the record I think Scorpio is more likely to be 6TF FP32 because after the reveal Phil Spencer said that it was 4.5X more powerful than the Xbox One.
But facts still remain that the specs that they have shown does not paint a clear picture & it could be 6TF FP16. Maybe they will give more information at the next event.
But facts still remain that the specs that they have shown does not paint a clear picture & it could be 6TF FP16. Maybe they will give more information at the next event.
Checkerboard Render
Banned
No it won't, and it's absolutely ridiculous to believe there's even the slightest chance of this being a possibility.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Lol
GhostTrick
Banned
Coolbgdog12
Member
All this passive aggressive hating, stop it man. It looks petty.
Self_Destructive
Member
Of course it will be FP32.. lol. Is that even a question?
OnQ feels like Jeff except he gets like 15% of the truth right and suddenly we can't hear the end of it.
The fact of the matter is, like the PS3's SPU's, like the 256GB/s of EDRAM of the 360 connected to the framebuffer and so on, they are good at CERTAIN tasks, not all, and not most. They are useful, but should not be misrepresented for what they are not.
FP16 does not make PS4 Pro an 8tflop console by any means. It just means that certain processes can be sped up if optimized in a certain manner to mimic the speed of what you would see out of a 'conventional' 8tflop GPU using FP32 because of twice the crunching speed.
Cerny was using some smooth talk, because you can't say he's entirely wrong, but he's painting a more rosy picture of the hardware that, as shown by this thread, can be very misleading.
The fact of the matter is, like the PS3's SPU's, like the 256GB/s of EDRAM of the 360 connected to the framebuffer and so on, they are good at CERTAIN tasks, not all, and not most. They are useful, but should not be misrepresented for what they are not.
FP16 does not make PS4 Pro an 8tflop console by any means. It just means that certain processes can be sped up if optimized in a certain manner to mimic the speed of what you would see out of a 'conventional' 8tflop GPU using FP32 because of twice the crunching speed.
Cerny was using some smooth talk, because you can't say he's entirely wrong, but he's painting a more rosy picture of the hardware that, as shown by this thread, can be very misleading.
I got more than 15% right & FP16 does make PS4 Pro a 8.4TF console. it's 8.4 trillion 16-bit floating point operations per second that's not up for debate just because you have become used to FP32 numbers .
Self_Destructive
Member
Yes.. unfortunately you'll never see Sony officially market the console with anything other than FP32 numbers... because FP32 is completely necessary for todays games.
All they can do is say things like 'effectively'...
It's also the reason why it's stupid to be asking if MS is referring to FP32 TFlops or FP16 TFlops when marketing the Scorpio... it's really self explanatory that it's based on FP32 throughput.
Self_Destructive
Member
No it's not self explanatory
Yes.. it is. Because as was already stated... a 3TF 32FP console would not come close to being 'the most powerful console ever made' and releasing more than a year after it's competition. Not to mention, they are directly comparing it to the XO. They couldn't market it as ~4x more powerful than the XO if it weren't the case.
This doesn't need to be explained to you... you already know it to be true.
The XBox One is compatible with the Xbox 360. I think that alone shows they are far ahead of Sony in the software department.
The Xbox One S is more powerful than the original Xbox One. There are no compatibility issues there.