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[onQ123]

onQ defence force here.

You tried this argument in another thread and it didn't work. Just because he quotes himself to show he is right does not mean he is anything like jeff. I was one of those people who argued with jeff over that Xbox One and PS4 4K update. I've been banned before for going off on jeff.

There is a difference between jeff and onQ, onQ only quotes himself to show he is right or to correct misrepresentation of his actual statements about things, jeff quotes himself as a source even when he's been proven to be wrong.

Go through his past post and find anything to support your claim.

Thanks!


I tell them that the console will use smart rendering techniques to output 4K & explain to them that it's not up scaling but uprendering. they keep repeating & saying that it's upscaling & making jokes calling me names & so forth, the facts come out & it's 4K using smart rendering tech & it's not upscaling.

I say it will be hardware to help with the rendering techniques they do the same thing act like I'm crazy. facts come out & there is hardware for helping with the higher resolution rendering.

I said that it will be able to render some games in 4K they all go crazy trying to tell me that it can't & I told them that games like NBA 2K can be rendered in 4K & it happened but some how they still want to prove me wrong even when it's right there in their face.


I said that PS4 Pro is 8.4TF FP16 they tried to prove me wrong saying that I didn't know what I was talking about & boom Cerny told them the same thing.

Now I'm wrong for showing proof of the things I said lol

 

[ZoyosJD]

Is these not the games that I said would be 4K?

Yes it has PS4 Pro is a 8.4TF FP16 console.

Why do you think that mixed FP16 FP32 operations will have enough impact on resolution/performance that it would be important to denote operations in FP16 as opposed to FP32?

You pointed out NBA 2k17, but it benchmarks at 4k 60+ FPS medium settings on a rx 480 or GTX 1060 anyway. There is nothing outside of the normal realm of expectations happening. There is no paradigm shift.

Maybe we can run a few more shaders, that will result in a slightly better visualization of models, but it's not going improve image quality or framerate when a huge portion of the pipeline is still dependent on FP32.

I tell them that the console will use smart rendering techniques to output 4K & explain to them that it's not up scaling but uprendering. they keep repeating & saying that it's upscaling & making jokes calling me names & so forth, the facts come out & it's 4K using smart rendering tech & it's not upscaling.

No one is using uprendering. You will not find a single verified developer who will state this anywhere on the internet.

It's not upscaling or uprendering, devs are stating they are using checkerboard rendering. Use the correct terms or STFU about the tech.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Thanks!


I tell them that the console will use smart rendering techniques to output 4K & explain to them that it's not up scaling but uprendering. they keep repeating & saying that it's upscaling & making jokes calling me names & so forth, the facts come out & it's 4K using smart rendering tech & it's not upscaling.

I say it will be hardware to help with the rendering techniques they do the same thing act like I'm crazy. facts come out & there is hardware for helping with the higher resolution rendering.

I said that it will be able to render some games in 4K they all go crazy trying to tell me that it can't & I told them that games like NBA 2K can be rendered in 4K & it happened but some how they still want to prove me wrong even when it's right there in their face.


I said that PS4 Pro is 8.4TF FP16 they tried to prove me wrong saying that I didn't know what I was talking about & boom Cerny told them the same thing.

Now I'm wrong for showing proof of the things I said lol

The one thing you've said lately that I disagreed with you on is that you weren't (still aren't?) sure that MS was referring to 32bit Floating Point throughput performance with regards to the 6TF number they are advertising. A person with your knowledge and interest in this stuff shouldn't even have to ask that question.

 

[dragonelite]

Dam People are really spending time to argue with
OnQ, waste of time folks. He is using Tech Talk to do console war Talk.

If uprendering is Native then upscaling is also. Native means Native and that means every pixel on screen goes through the rendering pipeline. And not be generated later like with upscaling, reconstructive or checkerboard rendering.

If it saves performances with rendering and allow better lighting with minimal impact on iq I'm all for it.

 

[Checkerboard Render]

A person with your knowledge and interest in this stuff shouldn't even have to ask that question.

*cough*

 

[onQ123]

Why do you think that mixed FP16 FP32 operations will have enough impact on resolution/performance that it would be important to denote operations in FP16 as opposed to FP32?

You pointed out NBA 2k17, but it benchmarks at 4k 60+ FPS medium settings on a rx 480 or GTX 1060 anyway. There is nothing outside of the normal realm of expectations happening. There is no paradigm shift.

Maybe we can run a few more shaders, that will result in a slightly better visualization of models, but it's not going improve image quality or framerate when a huge portion of the pipeline is still dependent on FP32.

You're the one that brought up the native 4K games as if I was wrong about some games being 4K.

And I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue about with FP16 vs FP32 because none of that change the fact that it can do 8.4TF of FP16.


I speculated like everyone else in the threads before the real specs was released but somehow you all lose your minds when I say something & everyone try to tell me that my speculations is wrong & not possible but yet I keep ending up being the person who was right.

 

[Tripolygon]

You shouldn't defend him, it only makes you look bad...he makes countless absolutely baseless claims...all so that if someone down the road even mentions something he talked about he then gets to say he was "right" all along...it's actually quite sad...

Trust me, i really don't mind looking bad. I hate when a group of people attack someone for apparently no reason. They can't technically defend their arguments so they resort to name calling (this has been going on for months now), potshots, and anyone who dares to question their attitude is a defense force or worshipping onQ.

 

[DesertFox]

What an incredibly lame answer to the question about a possible PS4 "Elite" controller. I understand if Sony doesn't want to produce that type of controller, but blaming it on not wanting to split the userbase into "haves" and "have nots"...

What? Isn't that what you are doing with the PS4 Pro system? Isn't that what you do with any piece of new hardware you release?

What about third party Scuf controllers? Why allow those to be sold for your system if you want everyone using the same controller?

 

[onQ123]

Why do you think that mixed FP16 FP32 operations will have enough impact on resolution/performance that it would be important to denote operations in FP16 as opposed to FP32?

You pointed out NBA 2k17, but it benchmarks at 4k 60+ FPS medium settings on a rx 480 or GTX 1060 anyway. There is nothing outside of the normal realm of expectations happening. There is no paradigm shift.

Maybe we can run a few more shaders, that will result in a slightly better visualization of models, but it's not going improve image quality or framerate when a huge portion of the pipeline is still dependent on FP32.



No one is using uprendering. You will not find a single verified developer who will state this anywhere on the internet.

It's not upscaling or uprendering, devs are stating they are using checkerboard rendering. Use the correct terms or STFU about the tech.

So what's happening when they take these 1080P PS4 games & resolve them to a 4K frame using these different techniques?

 

[GinoFelino]

Why do you think that mixed FP16 FP32 operations will have enough impact on resolution/performance that it would be important to denote operations in FP16 as opposed to FP32?

You pointed out NBA 2k17, but it benchmarks at 4k 60+ FPS medium settings on a rx 480 or GTX 1060 anyway. There is nothing outside of the normal realm of expectations happening. There is no paradigm shift.

Maybe we can run a few more shaders, that will result in a slightly better visualization of models, but it's not going improve image quality or framerate when a huge portion of the pipeline is still dependent on FP32.



No one is using uprendering. You will not find a single verified developer who will state this anywhere on the internet.

It's not upscaling or uprendering, devs are stating they are using checkerboard rendering. Use the correct terms or STFU about the tech.

Cool it with the hostility, buddy.

Damn onQ, dudes hate to see you being right for some reason.

 

[Tripolygon]

Dam People are really spending time to argue with
OnQ, waste of time folks. He is using Tech Talk to do console war Talk.

If uprendering is Native then upscaling is also. Native means Native and that means every pixel on screen goes through the rendering pipeline. And not be generated later like with upscaling, reconstructive or checkerboard rendering.

If it saves performances with rendering and allow better lighting with minimal impact on iq I'm all for it.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. Checkerboard rendering and reprojection is part of the rendering pipeline. Simple upscaling can be done at the end of the rendering process and can be done by a scaler inside a console or by a TV.

I'll put it another way: Not all part of any rendering process is at the native resolution of the final render target resolution. Shadows, lighting, effects etc etc can all be in different resolutions.

 

[onQ123]

The one thing you've said lately that I disagreed with you on is that you weren't (still aren't?) sure that MS was referring to 32bit Floating Point throughput performance with regards to the 6TF number they are advertising. A person with your knowledge and interest in this stuff shouldn't even have to ask that question.

Knowing that they are moving towards using double rate FP16 in bigger GPUs is a good enough reason to question when someone just give a TF number with no context.

 

[KageMaru]

You're the one that brought up the native 4K games as if I was wrong about some games being 4K.

And I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue about with FP16 vs FP32 because none of that change the fact that it can do 8.4TF of FP16.


I speculated like everyone else in the threads before the real specs was released but somehow you all lose your minds when I say something & everyone try to tell me that my speculations is wrong & not possible but yet I keep ending up being the person who was right.

You said AAA games at 4K. Any average gamer could predict that sports games like NBA2K would be native 4K. It's a game that provides a lot of control over their rendering budget. There's a reason why sports games like this are generally higher resolutions leading all the way back to the OG Xbox days, which rendered at 720p. Plus I don't think people consider sports games "AAA".

Also do you see an entire game being made with just 16FP operations? Honest question.

Trust me, i really don't mind looking bad. I hate when a group of people attack someone for apparently no reason. They can't technically defend their arguments so they resort to name calling (this has been going on for months now), potshots, and anyone who dares to question their attitude is a defense force or worshipping onQ.

I don't see anyone calling him names, just calling him out on the nonsense he spreads. Things like that shouldn't be tolerated, much less supported, on GAF. It drags the forum and discussions down.

So what's happening when they take these 1080P PS4 games & resolve them to a 4K frame using these different techniques?

They are using a checkerboard rendering technique, like it's been said many times before.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Knowing that they are moving towards using double rate FP16 in bigger GPUs is a good enough reason to question when someone just give a TF number with no context.

They will still calculate TF using 32bit floats man. It's the standard... Single Precision. If they are referring to anything different they will specify "Double Precision" or "Half Precision" or "Mixed Precision".

 

[Self_Destructive]

You said AAA games at 4K. Any average gamer could predict that sports games like NBA2K would be native 4K. It's a game that provides a lot of control over their rendering budget. There's a reason why sports games like this are generally higher resolutions leading all the way back to the OG Xbox days, which rendered at 720p. Plus I don't think people consider sports games "AAA".

Are you saying you don't think we'll see AAA games like Gears 4 run native 4K on Scorpio?

I'm willing to put down on that bet. As well as many others.

 

[KageMaru]

Are you saying you don't think we'll see AAA games like Gears 4 run native 4K on Scorpio?

I'm willing to put down on that bet. As well as many others.

No I just pointed out how his argument changed from AAA games rendering at native 4K on the Pro to just games in general rendering at 4K natively.

I forgot who from MS said it, but to me it made sense that if a game runs at 1080p on the XBO, we'll likely see the same game running at 4K on Scorpio. I even think that's a bit on the conservative side.

 

[Self_Destructive]

No I just pointed out how his argument changed from AAA games rendering at native 4K on the Pro to just games in general rendering at 4K natively.

I forgot who from MS said it, but to me it made sense that if a game runs at 1080p on the XBO, we'll likely see the same game running at 4K on Scorpio. I even think that's a bit on the conservative side.

Oh, I didn't know you guys were referring to the PS4 Pro. Yea, I don't see any developers targeting native 4K with AAA titles, when checkerboarding to 1800p will look extremely similar and allow them to stabilize framerates or perhaps increase effect quality.

I think some 3rd party titles will hit that res when it makes sense. Indie titles make sense at 4K, same with Remasters.

Of course... giving us options never hurts.

 

[onQ123]

You said AAA games at 4K. Any average gamer could predict that sports games like NBA2K would be native 4K. It's a game that provides a lot of control over their rendering budget. There's a reason why sports games like this are generally higher resolutions leading all the way back to the OG Xbox days, which rendered at 720p. Plus I don't think people consider sports games "AAA".

Also do you see an entire game being made with just 16FP operations? Honest question.



I don't see anyone calling him names, just calling him out on the nonsense he spreads. Things like that shouldn't be tolerated, much less supported, on GAF. It drags the forum and discussions down.



They are using a checkerboard rendering technique, like it's been said many times before.

Funny I can't seem to find this post where I said that

Also checkerboard rendering is just one of the techniques being used but they are all techniques that are being used to render at a higher resolution

 

[Tripolygon]

No I just pointed out how his argument changed from AAA games rendering at native 4K on the Pro to just games in general rendering at 4K natively.

I forgot who from MS said it, but to me it made sense that if a game runs at 1080p on the XBO, we'll likely see the same game running at 4K on Scorpio. I even think that's a bit on the conservative side.

This is why onQ quotes himself a lot.

He never actually said that, he said PS4K at that time would be able to use clever techniques like "uprendering" to get to 4K. After PS4 Pro was officially announced, he said PS4 Pro will have some native 4K games like indies and Sports games.

Originally Posted by onQ123

Neo will have 4K games that look just as good as the games you see on PS4 right now.

Edit: I love the find more posts by button because you can easily find things people actually said but i hate it because you can easily find some dumbass things i've said on gaf over the years.

 

[onQ123]

No I just pointed out how his argument changed from AAA games rendering at native 4K on the Pro to just games in general rendering at 4K natively.

I forgot who from MS said it, but to me it made sense that if a game runs at 1080p on the XBO, we'll likely see the same game running at 4K on Scorpio. I even think that's a bit on the conservative side.

Please show me this.

 

[KageMaru]

Funny I can't seem to find this post where I said that

What was the point of you responding with NBA2K to ZoyosJD when AAA games was specifically said in their post? You even had another poster telling you that you know NBA2K isn't a AAA game.

 

[Tripolygon]

What was the point of you responding with NBA2K to ZoyosJD when AAA games was specifically said in their post? You even had another poster telling you that you know NBA2K isn't a AAA game.

NBA2K, Sports games, fighting games are all AAA games with bigass budgets.

 

[KageMaru]

NBA2K, Sports games, fighting games are all AAA games with bigass budgets.

I think we should let him respond because based on the tone of his last couple posts, he doesn't think NBA2K is AAA either.

 

[ZoyosJD]

So what's happening when they take these 1080P PS4 games & resolve them to a 4K frame using these different techniques?

The answer is in your question. It's a resolve or frame assimilation. It's neither a native render or "up-render".

The specific type depends on the technique used, but saying this is "up-rendering" is patently wrong, and spreading misinformation, just so you can stroke your ego over finding a patent.

Cool it with the hostility, buddy.

Damn onQ, dudes hate to see you being right for some reason.

I'm an Electrical Engineer and programmer. onQ has no business writing about the technical aspects of these processes if it is going to come out as misinformation. That's how we wind up with the likes of MrXmedia and others mindlessly following them.

 

[onQ123]

What was the point of you responding with NBA2K to ZoyosJD when AAA games was specifically said in their post? You even had another poster telling you that you know NBA2K isn't a AAA game.

Well that's the problem people just jump in to fight without paying attention the same way people are still trying to argue as if I said Scorpio is going to be 3TF just because I said that we don't know if they are being shady or not & using the FP16 number months ago. it came back up because it was the post when I said that PS4 Pro is 8.4TF FP16. now there is a crowd of people trying to tell me that Scorpio isn't 3TF.

ZoyosJD posted as if I was wrong about what I said about PS4/Xbox One level games being native 4K.

That's why I posted NBA2K

 

[Hexa]

Funny I can't seem to find this post where I said that

It will play AAA games in 4K

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=212851530&postcount=370

 

[Always-honest]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=212851530&postcount=370

And isn't he saying that NBA 2K17 (Native 4K@60FPS + HDR) Is an AAA game?
Maybe the same can even be said about Pro Evolution Soccer 2017 (Native 4K@60FPS)

 

[onQ123]

The answer is in your question. It's a resolve or frame assimilation. It's neither a native render or "up-render".

The specific type depends on the technique used, but saying this is "up-rendering" is patently wrong, and spreading misinformation, just so you can stroke your ego over finding a patent.



I'm an Electrical Engineer and programmer. onQ has no business writing about the technical aspects of these processes if it is going to come out as misinformation. That's how we wind up with the likes of MrXmedia and others mindlessly following them.

The people calling it upscaling are the ones that was spreading misinformation.

 

[onQ123]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=212851530&postcount=370

So you're telling me that the games that are 4K checkerboard rending isn't AAA?

 

[Afrikan]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=212851530&postcount=370

and a few posts later when he was asked if he meant native.

The final frame buffer will be 4K for some games.

seems like some are reaching here.

 

[KageMaru]

Well that's the problem people just jump in to fight without paying attention the same way people are still trying to argue as if I said Scorpio is going to be 3TF just because I said that we don't know if they are being shady or not & using the FP16 number months ago. it came back up because it was the post when I said that PS4 Pro is 8.4TF FP16. now there is a crowd of people trying to tell me that Scorpio isn't 3TF.

ZoyosJD posted as if I was wrong about what I said about PS4/Xbox One level games being native 4K.

That's why I posted NBA2K

They specifically said AAA games being rendered at native 4K. He didn't say anything about PS4/XBO level games, which isn't even a real thing since all games in discussion now are on the PS4/XBO. You're just spinning things around to fit your agenda.

Also people are telling you that Scorpio won't be 3TF because it's obvious while you throw around insinuations as if there's a chance it might be.

 

[ZoyosJD]

I think we should let him respond because based on the tone of his last couple posts, he doesn't think NBA2K is AAA.

Honestly, I play more indies than sports games. From a technical standpoint there are indies that are just as impressive if not more. Regardless, the point of this matter is that performance is well within bounds of expectations of a similar GPU, namely the rx 480 and should be compared via the standard FP32. Thus, there is no reason to reference hardware in FP16 performance.

The people calling it upscaling are the ones that was spreading misinformation.

They are also spreading misinformation, but none of them are as adamant about an incorrect assumption as someone referencing patents and technical power points.

 

[KageMaru]

Honestly, I play more indies than sports games. From a technical standpoint there are indies that are just as impressive if not more. Regardless, the point of this matter is that performance is well within bounds of expectations of a similar GPU, namely the rx 480 and should be compared via the standard FP32. Thus, there is no reason to reference hardware in FP16 performance.

I agree and don't mean to downplay any game. I was just pointing out the lack of consistency with his posts.

 

[cooldawn]

And what makes you think that MS and their design team are not making similar tech strides?

Both Sony and MS are using semi-custom approaches.

If it makes you feel better that the Pro will be able to compete then enjoy your cake...

But we seem to be delving into what if territory which is puzzling as heck at the moment.

As is everyone else.

Yes, both platform holders are using semi-custom designs but historically Sony have a good track-record in core bespoke architecture and it seems like Cerny and Sony are bringing forward technologies not yet available in AMD's own products. That sound pretty positive to me and, in that regard, I have more faith in Sony.

I can't say for Microsoft but I never said they aren't trying to cook-up a custom design.

Anyways, none of that makes me feel anything...except I wish they both concentrated on full-on 1080p rather than 4k.

'...first and only console to enable true 4K gaming...'

I thought PS4 Pro had native 4K games coming. Actually, I'm sure there's a thread about it...

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

The people calling it upscaling are the ones that was spreading misinformation.

I think where things maybe got a bit nasty is when you kind of insinuated that Microsoft would be making a 3TB Scorpio. I'm not saying you SAID that, but you kinda inferred it.

That's just how it's looked to me mostly observing this thread.

Whether intentional or unintentional, you painted yourself as a Sony fan trying to provide secret sauce for the Pro while trying to reverse secret sauce Scorpio. Had you in the same breath said that potentially Scorpio could be using a similar technique and achieved 12TF FP16 performance, my guess is, less people would be annoyed with you.

Further more, I think some of the terminology you're using (which I personally have no knowledge of) is annoying some who seem to work in the field.

 

[onQ123]

Honestly, I play more indies than sports games. From a technical standpoint there are indies that are just as impressive if not more. Regardless, the point of this matter is that performance is well within bounds of expectations of a similar GPU, namely the rx 480 and should be compared via the standard FP32. Thus, there is no reason to reference hardware in FP16 performance.



They are also spreading misinformation, but none of them are as adamant about an incorrect assumption as someone referencing patents and technical power points.

You're a programmer so you should already know that devs will need to code to take advantage of the double rate FP16 & it's not just something that's going to make a game run better on PS4 Pro than it does on RX 480.

 

[onQ123]

I think where things maybe got a bit nasty is when you kind of insinuated that Microsoft would be making a 3TB Scorpio. I'm not saying you SAID that, but you kinda inferred it.

That's just how it's looked to me mostly observing this thread.

Whether intentional or unintentional, you painted yourself as a Sony fan trying to provide secret sauce for the Pro while trying to reverse secret sauce Scorpio. Had you in the same breath said that potentially Scorpio could be using a similar technique and achieved 12TF FP16 performance, my guess is, less people would be annoyed with you.

Further more, I think some of the terminology you're using (which I personally have no knowledge of) is annoying some who seem to work in the field.

The only time I talked about Scorpio in this thread is responding to people

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

The only time I talked about Scorpio in this thread is responding to people

My post is more highlighting those you've interacted with as opposed to you.

Also why I said whether intentional or unintentional

 

[pswii60]

As is everyone else.

Yes, both platform holders are using semi-custom designs but historically Sony have a good track-record in core bespoke architecture and it seems like Cerny and Sony are bringing forward technologies not yet available in AMD's own products. That sound pretty positive to me and, in that regard, I have more faith in Sony.

I can't say for Microsoft but I never said they aren't trying to cook-up a custom design.

Anyways, none of that makes me feel anything...except I wish they both concentrated on full-on 1080p rather than 4k.


'...first and only console to enable true 4K gaming...'

I thought PS4 Pro had native 4K games coming. Actually, I'm sure there's a thread about it...

This slide was shown before Pro was announced, so it was correct at the time.

 

[onQ123]

They are also spreading misinformation, but none of them are as adamant about an incorrect assumption as someone referencing patents and technical power points.

Richard Leadbetter work for DF & he keep calling it upscaling & his reach is a lot further than mines so if it was all about stopping someone from spreading misinformation why haven't you told him or anyone else to STFU?

 

[ZoyosJD]

You're a programmer so you should already know that devs will need to code to take advantage of the double rate FP16 & it's not just something that's going to make a game run better on PS4 Pro than it does on RX 480.

Indeed. If it were a simple switch for massive performance gains we would have already heard about it changing everything. As it stands it is simply less important, and will be a slow retooling process that will see small and gradual results. Now let me point you to my earlier realistic take on what advantages this might actually provide that you quoted in this very thread.

Maybe we can run a few more shaders, that will result in a slightly better visualization of models, but it's not going improve image quality or framerate when a huge portion of the pipeline is still dependent on FP32.

Richard Leadbetter work for DF & he keep calling it upscaling & his reach is a lot further than mines so if it was all about stopping someone from spreading misinformation why haven't you told him or anyone else to STFU?

He says "next-gen upscaling, if you like" for the simple minded, but also has an entire article which details the technicalities of the process in which he expected before he had seen the results and technique firsthand which he had labeled upscaling which had potential at the time

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-we-built-a-pc-with-playstation-neo-gpu-tech

I disagree with his choice of words as well, but upscaing is a technique that still has potential use on the pro in tandem with a checkerboard or similar resolve. "Up-rendering" is patently useless in this instance.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

onQ defence force here.

You tried this argument in another thread and it didn't work. Just because he quotes himself to show he is right does not mean he is anything like jeff. I was one of those people who argued with jeff over that Xbox One and PS4 4K update. I've been banned before for going off on jeff.

There is a difference between jeff and onQ, onQ only quotes himself to show he is right or to correct misrepresentation of his actual statements about things, jeff quotes himself as a source even when he's been proven to be wrong.

Go through his past post and find anything to support your claim.

Edit: I think it was earlier in this thread.

There was no running argument, I made a comment, you didn't agree, and I left it at that. Dealing with Jeff taught me it's not worth digging through post history when the other party is hell-bent on never conceding a point.

As for recent examples that spring to mind, the previously mentioned "3 teraflop Scorpio" revelation and his bizarre thing with the "dual GPU" that is still weirdly lingering.

If those aren't red flags for you, so be it, but they are for me and seemingly other posters. We have actual developers who post here that don't show his need for self aggrandizement, so maybe I'm just spoiled on what to expect from people in technical discussions and/or speculation threads.

 

[e-gamer]

So this means scorpio will have 12tflops on fp16?????

 

[dragonelite]

This makes absolutely no sense at all. Checkerboard rendering and reprojection is part of the rendering pipeline. Simple upscaling can be done at the end of the rendering process and can be done by a scaler inside a console or by a TV.

I'll put it another way: Not all part of any rendering process is at the native resolution of the final render target resolution. Shadows, lighting, effects etc etc can all be in different resolutions.

Didn't want to throw even more technical terms into the discussion. But I'm talking about the opaque buffer the buffer where rastorized geometry is written to. The folks at digital foundry use to pixel count. The opaque buffer should match screen pixels 1 on 1. Thought it was implicitly known that when people talk about native resolution people mean the opaque buffer and not the other buffer like shadow maps.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Chequerboard rendering is not as good as 4K native.
FP16 will provide some performance gains, absolutely nowhere near '8.4 TFlops'.
Scorpio is 6 TFlops FP32.
In a year or so I will quote myself and prove that I am a tech wizard.

Sarcasm aside, I have no issue with the information onQ is presenting. My issue is with the way he is interpreting it. He is interpreting it through the filter of a company fanboy, he is reaching wrong conclusions and misleading others in the process. This is why the jeff rigby comparisons are apt. Jeff was also researching his topics thoroughly but he was interpreting data in a specific way to reach the conclusion that he wanted.

There's an article on Gamasutra where Mark Cerny presents the technology behind the Playstation 4 and the custom modifications he did to the hardware.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

There are a lot of impressive-sounding technologies there. Reading this before the console's release one would be justified in thinking that the PS4 is a revolutionary piece of tech with all sorts of performance-enhancing modifications. Three years in, what kind of real-world result did all those technologies have?

Cerny is a smart man and he did an incredible job designing the PS4 keeping the price and form factor limitations in mind. The PS4 Pro will be another well-designed and affordable console. It won't perform miracles and believing so will inevitably lead to disappointment, just like the PS4's initial hype led many to believe that current gen consoles are 'trash', as can be seen in many DF threads.

 

[Locuza]

So this means scorpio will have 12tflops on fp16?????

6 TFLOPs with FP32 and FP16 or 6 TFLOPs with FP32 and 12 TFLOPs with FP16.
Probably the latter one.

 

[bigfurb]

Chequerboard rendering is not as good as 4K native.
FP16 will provide some performance gains, absolutely nowhere near '8.4 TFlops'.
Scorpio is 6 TFlops FP32.
In a year or so I will quote myself and prove that I am a tech wizard.

Sarcasm aside, I have no issue with the information onQ is presenting. My issue is with the way he is interpreting it. He is interpreting it through the filter of a company fanboy, he is reaching wrong conclusions and misleading others in the process. This is why the jeff rigby comparisons are apt. Jeff was also researching his topics thoroughly but he was interpreting data in a specific way to reach the conclusion that he wanted.

There's an article on Gamasutra where Mark Cerny presents the technology behind the Playstation 4 and the custom modifications he did to the hardware.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

There are a lot of impressive-sounding technologies there. Reading this before the console's release one would be justified in thinking that the PS4 is a revolutionary piece of tech with all sorts of performance-enhancing modifications. Three years in, what kind of real-world result did all those technologies have?

Cerny is a smart man and he did an incredible job designing the PS4 keeping the price and form factor limitations in mind. The PS4 Pro will be another well-designed and affordable console. It won't perform miracles and believing so will inevitably lead to disappointment, just like the PS4's initial hype led many to believe that current gen consoles are 'trash', as can be seen in many DF threads.

I dunno, games like Uncharted 4 and upcoming titles like Horizon, GOW and Days Gone all look pretty damn impressive considering how unimpressive many people think pS4 hardware is. And lets not forget the very respectable VR you can get from OGPS4, developers are squeezing those results from somewhere. Not saying it's performing miracles but those guys sure are managing to get some wine from the ol water jug

 

[InfiniteUnrest]

Never mind, replied to old post, it's late...

 

[Sony]

So what's happening when they take these 1080P PS4 games & resolve them to a 4K frame using these different techniques?

That's who you remind me of.

Checkerboard rendering is a great way to construct a 4k image, but it's not native and will always be inferior to native 4k.

 

[amstradcpc]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/283611/Inside_the_PlayStation_4_Pro_with_Mark_Cerny.php

Interesting that taking Jaguar cores to 2,1 Ghz is what made them increase the cooling solution size. It must be a little beyond the efficiency sweet spot at that clock. By the way we still don´t know if the PRO´s APU is 14nm GF or 16nm TSMC...