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marvelous entertainment airing out grievances over wii game sales

robox

Member
in the interests of sales-age

Marvelous Entertainment also made a post on the staff blog for Little King’s Story where they mentioned that games such as No more heroes, Rune Factory F, Oboromuramasa, Arc Rise Fantasia etc were all games that they have tried their best to make under very limited time and budget but all of these games have experienced similar shipment numbers, all of which are not very high. And he feels like crying.

But the writer also adds that despite the current bad market, games that sell are still selling really well, so it’s probably just a lack of ability on Marvelous Entertainment’s part.

They’re asking interested people to pre-order their upcoming game Little King’s Story, as it is apparently getting very little pre-orders, and retailers won’t even take their game for display in the shop if the pre-orders are bad.

Also Marvelous Entertainment related, they had a Q&A for their annual report which listed their average development costs for the high end consoles, and how European price protection schemes are killing them.

Q: It appears your company is making games for the high end game consoles such as the PS3 and the Xbox360, how much are the development costs and how much do you expect to sell? And what kind of game genres are you currently developing games for?

A: Development costs, on average, currently cost 50 to 60 million yen (US$600,000) for a PS2 title, and a PSP title would cost about 120 million yen (US$1,200,000). But for the high end game consoles it would cost about 3 times the amount of what it costs to make a PSP title. Just to recoup the development costs, we would need to sell at least 100,000 copies per title. As for the game genre, we are currently making action games and RPG-like games.

http://prg.mmv.co.jp/blog/project-o/archives/2009/06/post-89.html
http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/06/15/marvelous-entertainment-stuff/

obligatory lock if old
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
3.6mil for a ps3/360 game, to recoup costs you would need to sell 100,000 copies - so assuming the game sells for 60 bucks, developers cash in about 35-40 bucks per copy?

For some reason, the way a lot of other dev's were painting it, it seemed like a lot more dire situation (20,000,000 to develop a game, need to sell 500,0000 copies etc).

Still, poor marvelous. I guess they assumed the lower dev costs on the Wii and the higher install base would be win-win.

edit: also with the news that PSP dev costs are being cut dramatically, will it effect that 1.2mil number? Or is the bulk of that number paying the developers themselves... well it probably is, with a 20 person team, at 60,000 a year, thats 1.2mil right then in 1 year. Use smaller teams!
 
So if I understand correctly, they need to sell at least 100,000 copies on the HD platforms with budgets of around $3,600,000 to profit, so perhaps they only need to sell much less to profit off Wii games?

In Japan, Arc Rise just sold 26,000 copies in around 4 days of release, that's 1/4 of that.

Now did they mean they need to sell that much in Japan alone or worldwide? Would it matter which?
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
UK market is dropping game prices really fast - that really sucks for smaller publisher like marvelous .....
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
ultim8p00 said:
I feel so bad. Seriously. And those games are awesome too. Terrible economy isn't helping either.
If the games are awesome then what is the problem? Lack of marketing? How is Nintendo at working with 3rd parties to help promote their games?
 
Unless I am mistaken, he doesn't actually specify / blame Wii in his blog post - and I doubt that these games would have fared any better on PS3 / 360 (and budget wise, probably wouldn't have been possible) under the same conditions. It's just the market at the moment - games like those, despite being awesome, slip under the radar unless backed with a huge ad campaign, something that Marvellous (or Rising Star / XSEED) cannot do on their own.

I have done my bit - picked up No More Heroes and Little King's Story. Both are, indeed, awesome.
 

[Nintex]

Member
They have a terrible publisher in some parts of Europe, if they teamed up with Ubisoft I think their games could be much more succesfull, the only way to get Marvelous games here is to pre-order them online, they can't be found on store shelves.
 

Dead Man

Member
Wow. I have never seen a company admit lack of ability may be a problem. They must be hurting. That sucks for them. (not sarcastic)
 

CTLance

Member
Ouch. They make 12 bucks on PSP games? That seems actually kind of nice, all things considered.
nvm I'm stoopid and can't read.

Also, with many of these games not even out in Europe/USA yet they needn't cry all that much. Japan is a pretty handheld-centered market nowadays, it seems.
 
Damn man. Without having a strong marketing campaign for something, i.e TV and what not its hard. If only they could get behind a publisher that could help more in that sense
 

farnham

Banned
marvelous :(

well at least they still have a lot of games coming out

Little King Story in JP and Europe
arc rise in NA and Europe
Muramasa in NA and Europe
Rune Factory Frontier in Europe
NMH2 everywhere

looking how Free Radical and Factor 5 crumbled because one of their games failed i dont think that they made a wrong decision with the wii

still i hope their games would sell a lot more...
 

MotherFan

Member
I thought i read somewhere that this article stated that he admitted that no promotion also hurt sales. This may be one of the defining factors imo.

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/06/marvelous_tearyeyed_over_poor.php#more

The post goes on to say that the company's games that sell are really selling well despite the current market, remarking that the low numbers for those underperforming releases could be due to Marvelous' own failings in promoting them
 

Quixzlizx

Member
xs_mini_neo said:
Wait, wasn't it made by the same people who made Oboromuramasa?

Odin Sphere, Grim Grimoire, and Muramasa were all developed by Vanillaware. Atlus published OS here, and NISA published Grim Grimoire.
 
Quixzlizx said:
Odin Sphere, Grim Grimoire, and Muramasa were all developed by Vanillaware. Atlus published OS here, and NISA published Grim Grimoire.

Jeez, different pubs for each? I forgot. My bad.
 

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
On their subject of preorders.. I never preorder anything, so this is not an indicator on what I'll be buying.. or what the market will realistically expect..

And let it be said, Rune Factory Frontier is flippin' awesome.
 
DMeisterJ said:
PSP is double PS2 dev costs? How does that work out?

Price and availability of dev-kits (though PSP costs were recently lowered) and how familiar the talent pool is with the PS2 (or availability of an in house PS2 engine) could come into consideration.
 

Zzoram

Member
EvilMario said:
On their subject of preorders.. I never preorder anything, so this is not an indicator on what I'll be buying.. or what the market will realistically expect..

And let it be said, Rune Factory Frontier is flippin' awesome.

For smaller games, retailers have no idea how many to order because they have no idea how many will sell. In these cases, pre-orders really matter, because if they don't get any, they just assume nobody will buy the game and don't order any.
 

onipex

Member
Retailers not stocking games due to low pre-orders is why I buy games online more often.


farnham said:
marvelous :(

well at least they still have a lot of games coming out

Little King Story in JP and Europe
arc rise in NA and Europe
Muramasa in NA and Europe
Rune Factory Frontier in Europe
NMH2 everywhere

looking how Free Radical and Factor 5 crumbled because one of their games failed i dont think that they made a wrong decision with the wii

still i hope their games would sell a lot more...

Yes, but now they are going to make a a game for PS3/360. Also is Little King Story out in the US yet? I thought it was delayed until next month.
 
onipex said:
Retailers not stocking games due to low pre-orders is why I buy games online more often.




Yes, but now they are going to make a a game for PS3/360. Also is Little King Story out in the US yet? I thought it was delayed until next month.

July 21st seems to be the date.
 

farnham

Banned
onipex said:
Retailers not stocking games due to low pre-orders is why I buy games online more often.




Yes, but now they are going to make a a game for PS3/360. Also is Little King Story out in the US yet? I thought it was delayed until next month.
oh i made a mistake

lks is out in europe and not US

and yes they are making a PS3 game

but marvelous and suda stated that that game might bring them bankruptcy

i for my part doubt that
they still have the harvest moon crowd to milk
 

Neo C.

Member
Wii gamers really should pick as many of their games as possible. After Little King's Story, I'll pick ARF and Muramasa for sure. Some word-of-mouth advertising should be done, too.
 
Won't their Digital Download games like Harvest Moon: My Little Shop (out in JP, coming soon in NA) as well as to a lesser extent Fish Eyes/Reel Fishing Challenge (not out yet anywhere) for WiiWare and whatever VC games they have out help them out?

Digital Download games bring in profit much easier right? I thought you only had to sell some thousand copies for Nintendo to let you profit from them, but it also takes far less copies sold because you don't have to worry about low shipments and all those manufactuer fees and such right?
 

Grayman

Member
Zzoram said:
For smaller games, retailers have no idea how many to order because they have no idea how many will sell. In these cases, pre-orders really matter, because if they don't get any, they just assume nobody will buy the game and don't order any.
Well that is too bad because it won't make people who are not pre ordering pre order.
 

Haunted

Member
Go Go Marvelous Entertainment! I think you guys are really marvelous.

:(


Woo-Fu said:
If the games are awesome then what is the problem?
Ask Ex-Clover/Platinumgames. :(




Little King's Story BUY BUY BUY, best Wii game this year along with Punch-Out!
 
jaundicejuice said:
I thought No More Heroes sold a respectable amount worldwide.

It flopped big time in Japan, expecially on the opening day. Didn't it only reach a total of 10,000 something in Japan?

In PAL it sold so well RSG was singing in praise.
 

Chumly

Member
jaundicejuice said:
I thought No More Heroes sold a respectable amount worldwide.
Yea that ones the odd ball out. Its sold over 200k Via NPD and we know they shipped 160k in Europe so that means they probably shipped at LEAST 400k.

Rune Factory F, Oboromuramasa, Arc Rise Fantasia would all be MUCH MUCH lower than that.
 
Give Arc Rise some credit, it just came out last week and sold like 75% of the initial shipment.

But that's bad, as it's such a small shipment. :(

Just how quickly do publishers ship more copies?
 

Frenck

Banned
farnham said:
marvelous :(

well at least they still have a lot of games coming out

Little King Story in JP and Europe
arc rise in NA and Europe
Muramasa in NA and Europe
Rune Factory Frontier in Europe
NMH2 everywhere

looking how Free Radical and Factor 5 crumbled because one of their games failed i dont think that they made a wrong decision with the wii

still i hope their games would sell a lot more...

The demise of Factor 5 can be blamed on Brash Entertainment and Free Radical never made a really successful game. I can't think of a single dev that crumbled because one of their games bombed.

A series of Wii bombs is just as bad as a series of HD bombs.
 

Chumly

Member
I think the biggest problem is that people just dont stock their games even though they seem to sell decently. For Rune Factory it already had a limited distribution but its already sold out and gone from all the walmarts, best buys (dont think target ever stocked it) near me and Gamestop doesnt carry it online anymore.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Poor Marvelous Entertainment. I'm usually quite harsh on companies which complain about their sales, but I just can't be sarcastic with one of the only companies that put effort in their Wii games. Currently playing Little King's Story, and it's really good. I thought it could have been big (not Nintendo big, obviously), but if people aren't even aware that it exists and if retailers refuse to put the game on their shelves if there aren't enough preorders, what can be done? :/
 
I'm picking up Muramasa, King's Story and Arc Rise when they are out.
It's a shame that their games aren't selling more, but as they said, marketing plays a part in that.
 

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
I don't care about THQ but MMV? :(

They put all their new big IPs on Wii. Things really didn't go their way, they tried to enter the western market at the wrong time and their modest expectations for Japan are now biting them in the butt as a result. :(
 
It's weird... imagine if the Wii didn't exist? Marvelous might not exist either, in such a situation. How would they make it work?

Making all these games for the HD twins probably wouldn't be cost-effective (if a $3.6 million budget requires 100,000 in sales... my god. How many did Killzone 2 need to sell to break even?)

And then making games for PSP wouldn't work because nobody buys PSP software outside of a few exceptions (major titles mostly).

I guess they might be able to put out a single HD title or something, but I don't think they'd be able to take the risks they're taking now. NMH might be the only one that would have returned some profit.


I'm definitely picking up Little King's Story when it comes out in the US :D And obviously continuing support for NMH and stuff. And Oburo Muramasa. god, I hope these guys stick around :lol
 

Ranger X

Member
That's the problem you face in this shit industry when you make original good games. Since you don't fit in the crap they are used to sell, the retailers aren't buying much of your games.

It really fucking sucks and it really is the fault of this industry's distribution system / retail system and not the economy. If it was Marvelous games all over the shelves they would get marvelous sales.

.
 

SovanJedi

provides useful feedback
I already bought Little King's Story and plan on buying Muramasa when it's out. Did my part in helping them out. I thought No More Heroes did fairly well for them though?
 

Emotions

Member
I did my part... i picked up Rune Factory Frontier, Rune Factory 1 and 2, Steal Princess,
HM Tree of Tranquility, No More Heroes, Flower Sun & Rain,HM Island of Happiness, HM DS and Cute, Lux-Pain,Valhalla Knights 1& 2, Innocent Life (PSP) and HM Boy & Girl :D

Picking up when out... Muramasa,Little King's,Arc Rise Fantasia, Valhalla Elder Saga,Reel Fishing Angler's Dream, HM Animal Parade, HM Sunshine Islands, HM My little Shop and HM Sugartown.
Go Marvelous Go
 
SovanJedi said:
I already bought Little King's Story and plan on buying Muramasa when it's out. Did my part in helping them out. I thought No More Heroes did fairly well for them though?


NMH has sold around 400K WW, which is excellent, especially given how Suda's games usually sell and the kind of budget they have.
But the other MMV games haven't been as lucky.
 
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