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Mat Piscatella: US Video Game Hardware Market Peaked in 2008, young people not buying consoles much; Every company looking to expand beyond consoles.
- Thread starter Leonidas
- Start date
Mibu no ookami
Member
These types of games stopped selling on console. They tried many of them on the PS4 and it's why we don't really have a prominent rockband or guitar hero though they're trying to make a comeback from what I understand.
They've had mobile versions of rockband/guitar hero, but they're not the same. You really need consoles are maybe with the right tech in the future streaming to do a proper guitar/band game.
Same thing with karaoke games.
Again, there is a huge cost element associated with this and that is why PlayStation largely struggles as a family system and again we have a chicken and egg situation where kid/family games aren't prevalent on the machine.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Because it didn't peak.
This isn't a statistical peak, it's an outlier based on comparing data that isn't the same.
By referring to the Wii as "console hardware spend" but at the same time not calling cell phones hardware spend despite them playing mobile games shows you have obviously cherry picked the data is.
The iPhone probably has more 3rd party "console" games than the Wii did.
The data points are blending, so if we're going to have an intelligent debate about this and proper discourse, it's pretty important to filter for clear outliers.
It would be like saying Americans aren't driving anymore and basing that argument on data around the pandemic. I think we can do better than that.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol this guy is clueless.
Here is what Playstation's growth looks like. And this is only going back to 2016.
It's up 2.5x. If thats not growth, i dont know what is. The profits are only down because they have been paying off the bungie purchase. they are still making billions in profits that afforded them the ability to put down nearly $4 billion in the first place.
What he's doing is using the Wii's massive sales year to make this determination. BTW, speaking of old people, Wii was being bought by senior citizens in the millions. It was a bit hit in nursing homes.
Sony just sold 22 million PS5s in one year. Thats more than the PS4 ever did and PS2 only accomplished twice. Playstation has a 100 million monthly active users. Does Matt look at the monthly active users in 2008? Or how about 46 million paid PS+ users? What was it in 2008? oh right, ZERO.
The problem with simply looking at hardware is that it doesnt capture the overall health of the industry. Sony makes around 18-20 billion in revenues every year. Nintendo around 15 billion. MS around that as well. Compare that to the revenues in 2008.
Looking at hardware alone when the DS, PSP, and Wii were selling insane number of units is not a true indicator of growth.
Here is what Playstation's growth looks like. And this is only going back to 2016.
It's up 2.5x. If thats not growth, i dont know what is. The profits are only down because they have been paying off the bungie purchase. they are still making billions in profits that afforded them the ability to put down nearly $4 billion in the first place.
What he's doing is using the Wii's massive sales year to make this determination. BTW, speaking of old people, Wii was being bought by senior citizens in the millions. It was a bit hit in nursing homes.
Sony just sold 22 million PS5s in one year. Thats more than the PS4 ever did and PS2 only accomplished twice. Playstation has a 100 million monthly active users. Does Matt look at the monthly active users in 2008? Or how about 46 million paid PS+ users? What was it in 2008? oh right, ZERO.
The problem with simply looking at hardware is that it doesnt capture the overall health of the industry. Sony makes around 18-20 billion in revenues every year. Nintendo around 15 billion. MS around that as well. Compare that to the revenues in 2008.
Looking at hardware alone when the DS, PSP, and Wii were selling insane number of units is not a true indicator of growth.
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drganon
Member
Dad should've given him the belt instead.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
The hardware earning is also a key consideration, because there is a spending limit to an individual at the end of the day.
Goalus
Member
Triggered.Piscatella, the guy who hides Xbox terrible sale numbers (but we know them anyway)
I don’t think those numbers tell the whole story. PS4 / Xbox One, and PS5 / Series are part of an era with cross play and cross generation. And the generational leaps have been less stark with so many cross generation games. On top of that I don’t know many families who don’t have at least one console.
But on second thought, I hope it’s true. If that’s the justification to expand my choices on a particular console then so be it.
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
mart piscortolla
He's right though, nothing has outsold the ps2 yet right? now the counter to this is to go off road and start talking about revenue as the growth factor. Which I guess is fair but they used ps+ (complete new revenue stream) during ps4 era to boost revenue on flat hardware sales, nintendo pushed out a sub service and now ps5 gen they increased sub prices and game prices plus trying to hit gaas success to increase revenue and looking at the chart slimy posted their profit is still going backwards . Unless they can work out how to make their aaa games quicker and cheaper or significantly increase hardware sales to new customers not already in their ecosystem we can accept another round of price hikes or they can look at ways to expand outside their core platforms. I would personally have them try hit other markets or whatever over increasing prices again.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Just looked it up. Sony posted a revenue of $30 billion last year.
Their 2008 revenue? 6.8 billion.
Overall, the industry was at $21 billion in 2008. So we are up 3x in 16 years.
Source:
www.tweaktown.com
www.vg247.com
www.nbcnews.com
the gen after that saw PS3 sell 88 million. xbox 360 85 million and Wii 100 million. Thats over 260 million.
PS4 sold 115 million. switch also 115 million and Xbox One 50 million. thats 280 million. Add another 13 million for Wii U.
The problem this gen is the Xbox underperforming. Nothing more. PS5 is selling like hotcakes. Switch is ending the generation relatively strong compared to other consoles. switch 2 will break records because despite what he says, kids are playing games more than ever. fortnite, minecraft, robolox are all massive hits among kids. you and i are not playing that trash.
Their 2008 revenue? 6.8 billion.
Overall, the industry was at $21 billion in 2008. So we are up 3x in 16 years.
Source:
Big 3 revenues compared: PlayStation made $30 billion in 2023, Xbox $18 billion
How much revenue did gaming's Big 3 triumvirate make during 2023? We take a closer look at the annualized revenues of PlayStation, Xbox, and Nintendo.
www.tweaktown.com
US PlayStation revenues down $1.3 billion last year
Gama's claiming that American PlayStation revenues dropped around $1.3 billion last year, with gains from an expanding …
www.vg247.com
Video game sales top $21 billion in 2008
All throughout 2008, as the economy went from bad to worse, video games continued to sell at record levels, boosted by the popularity of the Nintendo Wii and blockbuster games like "Grand Theft Auto IV."
www.nbcnews.com
PS2 sold 150 million to Gamecube's 21 million and Xbox's 24 million. In total the hardware sales that gen were less than 200 million. Add another 9 million for dreamcast.
the gen after that saw PS3 sell 88 million. xbox 360 85 million and Wii 100 million. Thats over 260 million.
PS4 sold 115 million. switch also 115 million and Xbox One 50 million. thats 280 million. Add another 13 million for Wii U.
The problem this gen is the Xbox underperforming. Nothing more. PS5 is selling like hotcakes. Switch is ending the generation relatively strong compared to other consoles. switch 2 will break records because despite what he says, kids are playing games more than ever. fortnite, minecraft, robolox are all massive hits among kids. you and i are not playing that trash.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
PS2 sold as a DVD player. Xbox 360 and PS3 sold as streaming and bluray in the case of PS3.
PS5 is on pace to outsell the PS4.
If we're looking at core gaming, yes, absolutely console gaming is still growing.
DrFigs
Member
yeah but the thing is if the only reason the wii sold 100 mil+ is because grannies were playing wii sport in nursing homes, and ps2 only sold 160 mil because people were using them as dvd players, then it would be a fallacy to say that therefore console gaming as a market has declined. the hardware sales might have gone down, but actually more people are playing games on them. something like that.
Astral Dog
Member
Nintendo wants to make more movies
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yah. People ain’t really migrating so readily to the next gen consoles unlike in the past. They increased the price of the consoles over 2008 yet the hardware earning falls. Dedicated portable segments are consolidated.
The problem when combining all the console sales as a unique user vs what one platform peaked at is people by the end of a generation have multiple consoles and only buying a game on 1 platform and possibly only subscribed to 1 sub service at a time. I'd argue a good bunch of those 260 mil ps3/360/wii had multiple consoles, I'm not a huge console guy but I had all 3 of those. Last gen I had 3 ps4's and that's it, this gen i've had 1 ps5 and probably a 2nd once the pro releases.
If we actually had 280 million unique users in the console market the ps4 would have toppled the ps2, I'd expect it to actually be around 170 million unique users. Unfortunately neither of us have access to the data we need to factual prove ourselves right. If we look at those ps3 and ps4 numbers you've got there 35m less people buy an xbone and ps4 sells 27m more and nintendo sell an extra 15m, could make a case that people shifted camps and there were a few million more actual new unique customers.
I don't think roblox is a good example of kids using consoles, i've got no idea how reliable the numbers are I've seen but they are saying it's like 80% mobile, 18% desktop and 2% console and I don't think minecraft would be much different. Will give you fortnite though consoles seem the major patform there.
Astray
Gold Member
For all the doom and gloom about consoles, I expected a much bigger drop.
Also the very obvious conclusion here is that the majority of families share their gaming consoles, so what would happen is an increase in software spending, but not hardware.
This is a disastrous situation for Microsoft tho because their entire strategy this gen has been about bringing in new people via low priced consoles and getting them on subs. This strategy isn't working because most households have chosen their brand already and are being locked-in digitally.
It's not disastrous for Sony or Nintendo because their ip has a much bigger variety and cache so they can monetize via cross-media, and some percentage of today's kids would eventually grow up and buy the Switch 5 or PS8 or whatever for themselves.
Also the very obvious conclusion here is that the majority of families share their gaming consoles, so what would happen is an increase in software spending, but not hardware.
This is a disastrous situation for Microsoft tho because their entire strategy this gen has been about bringing in new people via low priced consoles and getting them on subs. This strategy isn't working because most households have chosen their brand already and are being locked-in digitally.
It's not disastrous for Sony or Nintendo because their ip has a much bigger variety and cache so they can monetize via cross-media, and some percentage of today's kids would eventually grow up and buy the Switch 5 or PS8 or whatever for themselves.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
That’s the problem that they have to solve. They do not have any trojan horse strategy this time to help justify the hardware sales.
For software, the core players who’s playing more isn’t alleviating the issue of the dwindling number of the core players who have aged up and retiring from gaming, and they are seemingly not being replaced at a healthy rate by the new zoomer/alpha players. On that note, the longer a player spend in a game, the lesser new games he needs to buy. Now a player can spend $70 for 1 game that last 40 hours. compared to buying 4 different games for $200 that last for 10 hours each in 2008.
Mibu no ookami
Member
When GTA6 comes out the demand for PS5 and PS5 Pro is going to skyrocket... No one is aging up and retiring from games, not in discernable numbers... this is fiction.
I do agree that there are too many games and they're too long (largely padded with useless quests)
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
No the PS5 actually sold below Sony's expectations in their latest financial report. Sony reduced their sales expectations but even before this the PS5 was on track to sell 108mil lifetime according to Sony last year, this was before they failed to meet their sales targets. The PS4 sold 117mil, the PS5 was always on track to underperform the PS4 but now it's selling worst than those original expectations.
This isnt a PS5 problem this is a console market problem and the Xbox is suffering as much if not more from it.
drganon
Member
That the latest talking point you got from Phil.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Should've seen that one coming. Lol
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Exactly. The gens after Y don't give a shit about the console model, and that's never going to change. I welcome our new industry overlords, may they lead the path towards a console-less future where we can focus more on the individual quality of a game instead of all the platform, hardware and exclusivity drama bs.
Negotiator101
Member
PS fanboys are not liking this 
not one little bit.
not one little bit.
Zathalus
Member
The LOL emoji reactions are getting worked overtime in this thread.PS fanboys are not liking this
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
PS fanboys are not liking this
infinite growth is not possible, regardless of what platforms. Just a matter of time in the end.
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Negotiator101
Member
Yeah the little fella demigod must have a nervous twitch he keeps hitting the LOL one
Zathalus
Member
No one needs infinite growth, but there are two entire generations that are buying less consoles compared to the previous ones. Console userbase growth is possible but it's not happening for various reasons.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Xbox fans are still looking to cope after they started putting games on PlayStation consoles.PS fanboys are not liking this
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
so its like what i said, infinite growth is not possible. Console is growing just not as big as these corporations expected.
All these "console is dying" doom and gloom news started after Microsoft is going third party.
And take a look at the low birth rate from alot of countries and the rising cost livings, these "growth" expectation (not only console market) will be even harder to achieve in the far future.
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Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
This kid is based AF. Telling it like it is, he should have gotten a good phone, tablet or PC cause that's what kids like these days. Even a PC is not the first or second choice for generation Alpha kids, they're all on phones.
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
No I got that from Sony themselves, those numbers are public. This is information Sony has provided to their investors. Microsoft's console hw division has been fucked since 2013 seeing them fumble about is nothing new but seeing a Playstation console not significantly excel at hardware sales compared to the previous gen is something that only happened once with the PS3 (twice if you count the PS Vita).
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
something tells me he want a PC just because of some tik tok videos or some of his favorite streamers is using it.
Does he even know how to operate a PC?
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Well I am not going to change your mind if you refuses to accept the numbers. Feel free to think so.
Gee I wonder why. if you only look at playstation increases offset by xbox declines it might appear like that. There was an xbox exodus to PC, and what about the rise of Switch.
Portugeezer
Member
Elden Ring would have sold 1 million in week 1 back in 2008.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Wait, does the data include mobile phones. Or are you saying it should?
Is the data implying mobile phones are consoles or are you?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This is exactly what it is. All the twitch streamers or youtubers this kid will watch is using pc. Kids don't want consoles. They want PCs.
My 12 year old is now exclusively PC. I've tried to keep consoles in the house for them but they just collect dust. All of her friends have pcs and they play fortnite/roblox etc on pc and chat on discord or WhatsApp while they play.
Consoles arw dying. They aren't desirable to the next generation of children. They can do their school work and play games on a pc. No avoiding it. I see the data of it for the UK and pc is growing considerably yoy.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
ok cool down.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Just wanted to give you some clarification as that your point was correct.
Klosshufvud
Member
Mat is such a shit-tier analyst. 2008 was a huge anomaly in so many ways. It's such a poor point of reference.
vaibhavpisal
Member
If Xbox will do well, it will come at cost of Sony. Thats the point. Market is gonna be constant till old generation lasts. It will evaporate rapidly after that.Just looked it up. Sony posted a revenue of $30 billion last year.
Their 2008 revenue? 6.8 billion.
Overall, the industry was at $21 billion in 2008. So we are up 3x in 16 years.
Source:
Big 3 revenues compared: PlayStation made $30 billion in 2023, Xbox $18 billion
How much revenue did gaming's Big 3 triumvirate make during 2023? We take a closer look at the annualized revenues of PlayStation, Xbox, and Nintendo.US PlayStation revenues down $1.3 billion last year
Gama's claiming that American PlayStation revenues dropped around $1.3 billion last year, with gains from an expanding …Video game sales top $21 billion in 2008
All throughout 2008, as the economy went from bad to worse, video games continued to sell at record levels, boosted by the popularity of the Nintendo Wii and blockbuster games like "Grand Theft Auto IV."
PS2 sold 150 million to Gamecube's 21 million and Xbox's 24 million. In total the hardware sales that gen were less than 200 million. Add another 9 million for dreamcast.
the gen after that saw PS3 sell 88 million. xbox 360 85 million and Wii 100 million. Thats over 260 million.
PS4 sold 115 million. switch also 115 million and Xbox One 50 million. thats 280 million. Add another 13 million for Wii U.
The problem this gen is the Xbox underperforming. Nothing more. PS5 is selling like hotcakes. Switch is ending the generation relatively strong compared to other consoles. switch 2 will break records because despite what he says, kids are playing games more than ever. fortnite, minecraft, robolox are all massive hits among kids. you and i are not playing that trash.
My guess is 10 yrs from now till deterioration starts. After that it will be all about phones, tablets, pc (if its lucky. Next generation doesn’t hate it for some reason).
A reminder of how fast market can drop, I will refer you to digital camera market after rise of smartphones
Killjoy-NL
Member
I wonder if he just wanted to play Roblox.