interesting theory, is there any survey made about this?
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Mat Piscatella: US Video Game Hardware Market Peaked in 2008, young people not buying consoles much; Every company looking to expand beyond consoles.
- Thread starter Leonidas
- Start date
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
I think you are overreacting here.If Xbox will do well, it will come at cost of Sony. Thats the point. Market is gonna be constant till old generation lasts. It will evaporate rapidly after that.
My guess is 10 yrs from now till deterioration starts. After that it will be all about phones, tablets, pc (if its lucky. Next generation doesn’t hate it for some reason).
A reminder of how fast market can drop, I will refer you to digital camera market after rise of smartphones
And i think its going to affect PC gaming as well.
Mobile will probably last very long time.
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drganon
Member
Anecdotal evidence, the best kind of evidence.
Killjoy-NL
Member
It's the typical Gaf-bubble.
tusharngf
Member
Makes sense as newer generation is not much into
if they don't ..they are dead in water. Investors need heavy returns which is not possible on a single platform. They have to expand on every device available
"Every company is thinking about expansion beyond console"
if they don't ..they are dead in water. Investors need heavy returns which is not possible on a single platform. They have to expand on every device available
Little Chicken
Member
People forget that the oldest of Gen Z are almost 27 years old, they have buying power, they just don't care for consoles.
LordBritish
Member
blame steve jobs i guess
vaibhavpisal
Member
Gaf is living inside a bubble with its limited data set and console war mentality.
This is full picture.
Muh Nintendo and Muh Sony are selling 120 million each, isn’t going to mean much if it went out of fashion. There are no signs it won’t happen.
It's bizarre that that you're taking the reality of what's happening now and suggesting something else might happen because there are no signs that it won't happen. Where are the signs that it will?
Think about what you're saying here. That's not to say it can't happen, it very well might and there probably is more relevant data out there but what you're doing is like saying there are no signs that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the wrong side.
ProtoByte
Member
Haven't recent years displayed that there are no new swath of customers on the way?
Gamepass, Apple Arcade and Stadia have all failed.
The mobile crowd doesn't want to play core games, and doesn't want to pay for them.
The subscription attempt (obviously most attributed to Microsoft, but even Sony internally admits this with their more mild PS Plus model) has done nothing to grow the market, just undercut it.
Porting to PC has demonstrably done nothing but weaken Xbox, and it will show to do the same to PlayStation.
Unless there's some type of financial and cultural shift in Asia and Africa, console manufacturers should understand by now that gaming is done with its growth spurt. The market has matured.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
All this does, is show that the console-market is stable, just not expanding.
So this entire discussion is another knee-jerk to Xbox dying, resulting in #ConsoleMarketToo after we already had #SonyToo and added #NintendoToo.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
Neither.
What I'm saying is that including the Wii is as arbitrary as not including cell phones.
It was not a traditional game console and it sold significantly to non-console gamers who checks notes did not buy console games.
What numbers?
Selling below inflated expectations doesn't mean it isn't selling well or that it isn't on pace to outsell the PS4.
This is fiction.
It's not a theory. I was there. It was well reported on.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
This is exactly what is happening.
My Nephew owned a PS5 since 2021. In 2023 he asked his parents for a gaming PC and asked my advice on what to get him.
I asked was there a specific game he was trying to play on PC that he can't play on console, since it's harder to moderate what games he buys on PC.
They said he didn't have any specific games. It's definitely about youtube, twitch, and discord.
All he plays on it is Rocket League, which he already had on his PS5.
I think that is why Sony is trying to alter how the share button works on PS5 and how the help guides work.
My nephew watched HOURS of Mario Kart youtube videos so he could learn all of the shortcuts in the game so that when we played his suggested Mario kart tournament on Christmas Eve that he would cook us.
He'll still occasionally play his PS5, but generally it's only for some sort of co-op experience. It Takes Two or EA FC.
drganon
Member
# SonyNintendoToo
MasterCornholio
Member
Your failures =/= Nintendos and Sonys sucess.
Now go tuck your Series S to bed. Don't forget to give it a kiss.
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ManaByte
Member
Netflix drove the 360 so much that the Xbox 360 was the first device that Netflix updated to stream in HD in 2008.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Best way to alleviate any fear is to show growth. Growth will mean new customers are coming in, which they are unable to do.
Its best to prepare for worst and diversify.
Topher
Gold Member
I wouldn't go that far. Sony isn't going to put their games on Xbox. Doesn't have the install base worth it. Switch 2, possibly. Of the three, Microsoft has the biggest need to go full third party. Nintendo will be the last to expand to other platforms.
Perhaps, but that doesn't mean the market is in position to recede either though. There is still plenty of money to be made.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
With Switch having the potential to surpass PS2 lifetime sales, Sony is not going to put their games on Switch 2.
They're going to be direct competitors, each with their own core demographic.
Sony putting games on PC is to expand the Playstation eco-system and attract people into it, knowing PC isn't a threat to their console installbase.
They clearly and repeatedly stated this, even the people currently running Playstation.
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Topher
Gold Member
That's fair. I was looking at the platforms only from the perspective of an install base with the numbers worth expanding into.
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at this point why is his hyperbole even posted? 
Sanepar
Member
PC will not be affected until nvidia migrate to only gpu rent model in 5-10 years. After that only cloud(xbox and nvidia) will be options or old pc hw with no updates.
Nintendo will keep their model until they can.
Sony is fucked on the long term.
MisterXDTV
Member
You said the same thing when GamePass launched, "The Netflix of gaming"
Now MS is porting games to PS5
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drganon
Member
Topher
Gold Member
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
The numbers being stable seems to be insufficient when Sony is also laying off lots of people, missing their sales forecast and more, while development cost continue to rise exponentially.
Funny enough Nintendo now seems to be in the safest position among the three, when they faces the most calls to go 3rd party in the last decade or two.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Microsoft is failing with Game Pass
They're behind in cloud gaming.
Their consoles are on the decline.
PlayStation consoles are going strong and they're already ahead when it comes to cloud gaming.
Steam will remain the dominant storefront on PC.
5-6 years ago, Xbox fans said Game Subscriptions would take over and cloud gaming would be the biggest thing in gaming. lol.
He's right, that generation had multiple consoles breaking records except for PS3. Lots of people had two consoles.
Few years later, the Wii hardcore crowd had to move to the PS3, 360 and even PC because they were missing too many games as the quality third party support waned around two year mark and they wouldn't create Wii versions from the scratch, the casual crowd moved to mobile, which also eventually would led to a significant decline in portable gaming sales in the following generation as the PS Vita did awful and the 3DS just did half of DS sales. Nintendo had to merge their two pillars who peaked 250 million units lifetime into one at probably 160 million lifetime.
Few years later, the Wii hardcore crowd had to move to the PS3, 360 and even PC because they were missing too many games as the quality third party support waned around two year mark and they wouldn't create Wii versions from the scratch, the casual crowd moved to mobile, which also eventually would led to a significant decline in portable gaming sales in the following generation as the PS Vita did awful and the 3DS just did half of DS sales. Nintendo had to merge their two pillars who peaked 250 million units lifetime into one at probably 160 million lifetime.
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Sanepar
Member
Agree with all this. But i guarantee nvidia will not make gpus in 10 years for gaming. Do u want a nvidia gpu? U will need to rent with geforce now.
Klosshufvud
Member
Of course because he's a cherry picking idiot that never knows the actual context of his data. His claims in general have nothing to do with the data he uses to support said claims. Dude is just a clueless shill.
StereoVsn
Member
Yeah, I think the big issue is that unique users aren’t really growing in numbers. The audience for traditional $60-70-80 (depending on your country) titles isn’t growing all that much overall.
Yes, revenue per user grew fairly significantly, but especially considering that Gen Z and down aren’t likely to be majorly into console games, it’s an issue.
And it’s an issue for us old timers because if sales start tanking we will see less great games being made. We already kind of see that with AAA titles and ballooning costs.
Edit: Forgot to add that while there is certainly still significant stable revenue to get from consoles… shareholders don’t want that. Especially institutional and “activist” investors want constant growth and all they care about is a few next quarters.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
Sony also closed several studios over the years. Those things happen.
That's like the same nonsense as when Playstation was supposedly dying at the start of last-gen.
They still make profits, they have massive revenue and we have absolutely no idea how Sony spends their money.
Their current strategy is to expand beyond their console-business, with the intention to draw in more people into their eco-system and to grow their console installbase.
Missing their forecast doesn't say much yet, as we came from a period of extremely high demand after 2 years of shortages.
Right now, it likely just slowed down to what we typically see around this time during a gen.
That's ignoring the fact that their updated forecast is comparable to roughly 75% of Xbox Series lifetime sales so far.
What it all comes down to, is that just because a certain platform-holder is dying, it doesn't mean that Sony is too. Neither is Nintendo.
Because let's be real, that's what all these discussion are about.
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Topher
Gold Member
No shock there whatsoever. Mat Piscatella is such a manbaby. Any push back whatsoever and he throws sarcastic temper tantrums and runs away crying.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
It's a bit true that kids gaming is a lot more platform agnostic than it used to be. Games like Roblox, Fortnite, and Minecraft are these big tentpoles that kids use for social play because they're available on everything, free or low cost, and ubiquitous. A lot of kids have a Switch as well but Xbox and PlayStation is more the domain of teens and adults.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yes, they have been closing several studios over the years to cope with the issue.
The CEO has said that spreading to more platforms is their strategy to resolve the narrowing profit margin issue despite the higher revenues. And yes, they are also trying to expand beyond their console business because they know relying on their current console business is no longer enough. At the same time, the fact that they missed their forecast despite having 2 years of shortages and a new hardware refresh is pretty telling here.
Not that it is totally a bad thing, since more people from different platforms getting to play Sony Playstation games now.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
On the other hand we can see more great games elsewhere, just maybe lesser on consoles.
I just hope the people here can manage to adapt well to the new landscape of the industry here in the coming years.
Topher
Gold Member
I see games increasingly on platforms other than just consoles, but not less on consoles. Defeats the point of expansion otherwise.
drganon
Member
Do you ever get tired of posting incredibly stupid takes?
apple_of_enlightenment
Member
He's using Nintendo's dominance with Wii&DS in 2008 as an excuse for MS failings against Nintendo's dominance today.
Mobilemofo
Member
Be like water. Go with the flow..the landscape is mid shift, all us older gamers will either go with it or slowly drift away. For everyone else, the future is solely cloud unfortunately. Us older gamers had it goooodddd. 
Killjoy-NL
Member
Both can be true, but neither are a sign that Playstation is in trouble or in a decline.
Nor the console-market, for that matter.
It's just one company that's in trouble, no matter what diversion is being created.
yazenov
Member
Mat having access to data doesn't mean he knows his shit. It's how you process the data. His analysis of the data is laughable at this point.
His tweet confirmed that portables are included in hardware gaming revenue. How the fuck did he come to that conclusion when he was comparing 6 platforms in 2008 to the current 3 platforms? It seems disingenuous especially now that Nintendo decided to make the Switch a hybrid instead of releasing two separate hardware in the market, a console, and the other dedicated portable hardware. He also completely neglected to mention the main factor underperformer that is dragging down the market aka XBS.
This guy should stick to releasing data without his extremely dumb takes. Your average Joe on this forum knows better than this full-time paid shill.
His tweet confirmed that portables are included in hardware gaming revenue. How the fuck did he come to that conclusion when he was comparing 6 platforms in 2008 to the current 3 platforms? It seems disingenuous especially now that Nintendo decided to make the Switch a hybrid instead of releasing two separate hardware in the market, a console, and the other dedicated portable hardware. He also completely neglected to mention the main factor underperformer that is dragging down the market aka XBS.
- Nintendo DS
- PSP
- Wii
- PS3
- PS2 ( kept on selling great even with the PS3 release)
- Xbox 360
This guy should stick to releasing data without his extremely dumb takes. Your average Joe on this forum knows better than this full-time paid shill.
Klayzer
Member
Some of these guys have to be trolling.