It was terrible, he's gonna net about 3 delegates, the lead will go from 290 to 287 or something.
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May U.S. Primaries |OT| Glory to America
- Thread starter dramatis
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It was terrible, he's gonna net about 3 delegates, the lead will go from 290 to 287 or something.
Big Baybee
Member
No, I meant what I said. Sorry if I think people who don't share the same politics as myself should decide what candidate my party puts forward. I think there should be no barriers when it comes to the ACTUAL ELECTIONS. Not primaries.
Prodigal Son
Member
Primaries are also elections. Tough to swallow, I know.
Speaking of swallowing, I've got some meds to take that'll probably knock me out. ttyl gaf
Battersea Power Station
Member
Like I said, the road from here on out is next to impossible. That doesn't make the result any less impressive. His delegate count so far is nothing short of amazing considering who he is and his limited appeal.
Hillary's got this easily, though.
It's not really though, it was an open primary, where Hillary spent no money or time in, and favours Bernies demographics.
I know Hillary has got it, I'm just saying, this wasn't a good night for Bernie. Michigan was a good night for Bernie, if you wanna talk narrative. Wisconsin was a good night for Bernie, if you wanna talk margin.
Big Baybee
Member
Primaries are elections held by a private political party lmao.
theignoramus
Member
Youre looking at it from the perspective of the primary race, which is over. Sanders needed to win tonight to justify staying in and continuing to promote his platform. From that standpoint, tonight is a win. The more of these states Sanders wins the more leverage he has when it comes to time to sit down with the Clinton campaign and get concessions from them in exchange for his support.
He probably thinks everyone's going to come to their senses at the last minute and pick him.
Battersea Power Station
Member
It was an incredibly impressive result. Hillary has got the more appealing policies, is the more experienced candidate, and is ultimately more qualified to be President. I don't know how Sanders is doing what he is so far. I guess I'm underestimating the amount of young white people in America
JesseEwiak
Member
Because some state parties are run by dumb people?
Like other people have asked, let's say your in a workplace where 50% belong to a union and 50% don't. Should the 50% who don't be allowed to vote for the union steward?
InsaneZero
Member
Hell, if I could use campaigning as an excuse for a road trip I so would
theignoramus
Member
That or the amount of White male voters who have a serious problem with her.It was an incredibly impressive result. Hillary has got the more appealing policies, is the more experienced candidate, and is ultimately more qualified to be President. I don't know how Sanders is doing what he is so far. I guess I'm underestimating the amount of young white people in America
excelsiorlef
Member
Bless you, people on Twitter.
Ironically as far as victories go it's devastating. He gained.... 6 delegates. :|
He's down by almost 300
Bernie talking crap on CNN.
Petty? He's right .. Sanders needed to win by like 30 points to really start closing the gap. What, you don't agree?
Petty? He's right .. Sanders needed to win by like 30 points to really start closing the gap. What, you don't agree?
Republic of Ezo
Member
Except he has exactly the same amount of leverage now as he will by the time this thing is over. Even if he somehow closed the gap to 100 pledged delegates, so what? Hillary doesn't need his support on the first ballot to get the nomination and is he really going to threaten withholding his support and risk a Trump presidency? I'm sure they'll give him something about campaign finance reform and maybe $15 minimum wage but I wouldn't expect much else no matter what happens going forward.
Petty?
It's true. He's 300 behind, shits on the establishment at every turn, and is attacking the nominee of the party.
That's petty. And a fantastic strategy if you're trying to lose.
excelsiorlef
Member
Since when is sticking to your guns no matter what the act of a "principled" man.
On of his core principles is that Trump cannot win the Presidency, he's certainly not standing by that principle with his current actions.
Melkezadek
Member
Is Bernard's support even worth anything at this point? I don't think it is. I think the way he's attacked Clinton nobody would believe him if he came out in supporting her. He's pretty much garbage at this point, so why give him concessions? The more Clinton acknowledges him going forward the less likely I am to vote for her in all honesty. As much as I love Clinton I'm not about to see the party hijacked by this man and will vote against the party if they pretend like he's relevant.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Whole heartily agree with this.
Also, open primaries suck. I don't need non-Democrats voting in my primary. Wanna vote for the Democratic candidate.. then register that way.. wanna be independent that stay out of the primary.
Sore winners? S/he's explaining why this isn't that impressive of a result, considering the amount of misinformation out there, I get it.
It's not being petty to explain why even slight wins for Sanders are losses. Some people might genuinely not understand that.
excelsiorlef
Member
Consistent I'll give you.
Incorrect mind you.
Caucuses allow for 2500 people to decide a state of hundreds of thousands maybe millions. Closed primaries such as NY still had well over 1 million voters
I know, he hasn't been on track to win the nomination for months now. But excelsiorlef in particular has always taken the opportunity to downplay Bernie's wins this whole primary season. It's like clockwork, and given that Hillary has been the presumptive nominee for forever, I do think that's a petty attitude.
The reality of the situation is that this is the democratic process. You don't get to choose who stays in or out just to bolster your favoured candidate, and shield her from (often justified) criticism, to save face or remain stronger against the opposition when we're still a very long way away from the GE. There's no reason for Bernie to bow out until it's mathematically impossible for him. Key word impossible, not improbable. In a way, Bernie staying in is much like a starter, practise for Hillary for when it is the GE and the Republican's unite on the attack.
That is unless some completely unforeseen scandal or something comes along and takes the wind out of Hillary's sails, and propels Sanders as the defacto choice. Highly unlikely of course, but just one other random possibility.
There should be open primaries, no caucuses, same day registration, and no voter IDs laws.
(Ironically, Hillary won the only state with all of these -- Illinois -- and would probably still be winning if all of these mechanics were in place, given her insurmountable lead in the popular vote at the moment)
(Ironically, Hillary won the only state with all of these -- Illinois -- and would probably still be winning if all of these mechanics were in place, given her insurmountable lead in the popular vote at the moment)
Until recently a lot of people were still arguing Bernie had a path, so yes, of course it needs to be pointed out that his wins are not big enough.
I'd say there is no point from this point on, it should be pretty evident it's over. But when you have Bernie saying he has a path ...
Melkezadek
Member
1) Hilary isn't my prefered candidate, Bernie was.
2) I'm all up for justified criticism. I am not up for claims of corruption without evidence to back it up.
3) The reality the poster was pointing out was the overall meaninglessness of this "victory". Yay for democracy, but it's not getting him closer to the nomination. It isn't happening.
Is one not allowed to feel that Bernie should bow out without being labelled as a Hilary Supporter? It's growing tiresome. I feel like one has to outline their posts with that fact just not to be dismissed as a shill of "rooting for their preferred candidate".
I think all primaries should be closed, but that you can register as independent-democrat or independent-republican. So that independents that lean either way can vote.
I don't like the idea of troll voting (Which I think has lost Hillary a lot of votes this election).
I would have no problem with Bernie staying the course if Cruz hadn't dropped out tonight. I am slightly annoyed that Hillary is now going to have to defend herself from both right AND left the left for the next few months. At this point, her supers won't change, and she'll clinch the nomination on June 7th, or potentially earlier if more supers come out publicly to support her.
If he's going to stay in, I'd prefer him to take a more optimistic tone just because we should be transitioning towards a place of unity. I get that Hillary was shitty in 2008, and she deserved all the criticism for those moves. That doesn't mean that Bernie has to pull the same crap she did.
theignoramus
Member
Theyll need him for the folks who have it in their mind to sit at home and not vote at all in the general out of discontent or pure spite.
The Republicans are uniting against Hillary TONIGHT. The attack ads are being prepared as we speak. As far as the GOP is concerned, it is the general.
5 long weeks till Cali. I think Bernie knows he can't swing supers, so after a loss in Cali (when every state has voted) he'll drop.
#JusticeForDC
I also expect that Hillary will just ignore Bernie from this point forward, which is her right.
She can't ignore Cali tho. That's the last and only state going forward she should put some effort into.
Of course you can, but understand the ramifications of what you're asking. It is too soon to silence the far left liberals or socialists of America imo. I'd rather see it play out to see the degree of support that Bernie actually has within the remaining states, and in the hopes that in future, more of the Democratic party will be better inclined to at least advertise or push a move further leftwards on policy. Especially on foreign policy, healthcare and economics.
Well lucky for us, it isn't the general. This is warm up.
gutter_trash
Banned
Okay, but after tonight, it is the general. And if Bernie wants to stay in the race, he can't continue to criticize the presumptive nominee from the left. Keep supporting the positions that he cares for, but it's time to not cause the person you're going to inevitably endorse to continue to fight a two front war.
Melkezadek
Member
That's not what I'm trying to silence. If Bernie's message was solely on his issues, it wouldn't be an issue and I'd encourage it. But he has gone against his word and it's become a smear campaign. I did not accept it at first, but once I took him off the pedestal it became very clear that it's become that.
More and more of my fellow supporter friends have fallen into this "Bernieorbust" bullshit and it makes me sick. Much of it fueled by his baseless attacks on her character and "progressiveness". 20 years of attacks from the right is already going to make this an uphill battle. He only adds to it when he continues to spout bullshit and take advantage of their ignorance of young voters. It's shameful and I thought he was above it. I thought he was about the bigger picture. I thought "we were all in this together". Now that he's on track to lose, he's encouraging his voters to say "fuck it". I don't respect that at all.
I don't really know the history of the poster in question, but this:
is waaaaay too broad of a brush to paint people with.
No it's not. Stop saying that. Just because it supports your narrative doesn't make it true. There's a lot of time till the actual GE, and a lot can change and be done to improve messaging within that time. Post primaries Sanders is obviously going to rally behind Hillary in some fashion, and the stakes will be completely different.
So you're winging that his campaign is making Hillary look bad? Who cares. These are the kinds of attacks she's going to get either way, and it's not like there's not ample time to correct things on the democratic front. Come the GE, far left, liberal or socialist Democrats aren't going to support Trump over Hillary lol. Outside of an extreme minority of cases, the complete opposite will happen.
You're right about it being a long time before the GE (or Election day at least).
Is it just me or does anyone else see Trump getting a bit bored, yes bored! in those 6 months. He strikes me as a very impatient person.
Trump shouting "Crooked Hilary" and Sanders trying to imply corruption with "ZOMG Transcripts" and "Money Laundering" aren't helpful to the Democratic cause.
It's the general election. Trump is the presumptive nominee. His only major obstacle is out of the way. The Chairperson of the GOP declared him the presumptive nominee. Indiana killed the #NeverTrump movement. It might not be post-convention, but I can assure you, tonight is the first night of the general election, and we still have our presumptive nominee dealing with a two front war.
He doesn't need to drop out. He can't do things like call her unqualified.
Fair enough.
Anyway, what do you make of the argument that Bernie should stay in the race until June 7th because of California's top two system?
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2016/04/29/Why-Democrats-Need-Bernie-Sanders-Stay-Race
Obviously, Cruz dropping out changes things, but what if he had stayed in?
Melkezadek
Member
Who cares? I care that a candidate is spouting nonsense and things that aren't true/not backed by any evidence. That's the standard I held with Bernie when I voted for him. I don't dismiss it just because I liked him. So what if the other side is going to do it, Bernie is supposed to be above that. That is why I was behind him.
Basically what I'm saying is, he needs to stick to the issues like income inequality, climate change, institutionalize racism, money in politics. Not insinuations and innuendo about an opponent he's already lost to.
I don't care about him staying in in theory until DC votes. I care that he doesn't cause the presumptive nominee to fight a two front battle with stupid character attacks that aren't actually going to help him win.
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