If that 50% are effected by the union's actions (hint: they are) then yes they should.
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May U.S. Primaries |OT| Glory to America
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If that 50% are effected by the union's actions (hint: they are) then yes they should.
eBay Huckster
Member
i like the argument that he should stay in so everyone's voice is heard (and also like the argument set forth there regarding downballot turnout, at least in CA)
i don't like the argument that he shouldn't tone down the character attacks, because those are only really helping trump at this point
Actually it does. If you look at the bigger picture, and if there is actually merit to at least some of those attacks, which there is. I do not want a future where Democratic candidates, like so many Republicans, are taking millions from special interests, or back door deals, jobs, lobbying, underhand offers or whatever else, as I really do think it's likely to create impartiality and affect policy making. I have no doubt in my mind that Hillary for example, will have in some way been compromised with respect to the big businesses that have essentially been pandering and shmoozing her with millions of dollars in speaking fee's and whatever else. It is deeply regrettable and unfortunate, but doesn't change the reality of the situation, and I don't care that others think these things won't have affected her partiality. To me those people are impressively naive and some, implicit in double standards when compared to views on certain Republicans for example.
I think going forward, if these sorts of attacks force potential future Democratic presidential candidates to be more honest, morally considered and averse to potentially damaging connections such as these, that'll be a win in my book.
It's not the general election though. It's primary season. GE is still 7 months away, and the situation in the run up to the GE will be completely different to what it is now, as has been the case with every election ever comparative to the Primaries.
No, I'm wondering what you think about the idea that Democrats could potentially lose House seats in CA due to low-energy turnout that would let 2 Republicans compete for a seat in November, not the presidential race.
It is de facto the General Election as of tonight. We no longer have competitive primaries, we have our nominees who both lead by insurmountable margins. It might not be after the convention, but denying the reality of the next step in the campaign that began to night is extremely questionable.
Sure, as long as he doesn't character attack Hillary and focuses on promoting the issues that got him to run in the first place.
Either you bring evidence to the table or you have no point. The charged language and the complete inability to demonstrate any unequivocal corruption renders his points moot. It's put up or shut up - I'm tired of implications and "purity tests" are uninteresting to me because Sanders, as a member of the human race, also fails them as well.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Curious, is this just a hunch or are there more substantial reasons to expect this could be happening?
Every time Bernie is asked to provide one single instance where she's changed a vote due to such interests, he has whiffed.
Innuendo, suspicion, emotion.. they're all adorable, but I'd love to see folks bring some actual receipts for once.
When confronted with that point during a debate on how donations affected her policy, Sanders presented as evidence the following:
Melkezadek
Member
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Yeah, already seeing all the chest thumping about Bernie winning Indiana all over my Facebook.
Waiting for the backlash against my comments about him winning 6 more delegates than her and still having hundreds more to close the gap.
Waiting for the backlash against my comments about him winning 6 more delegates than her and still having hundreds more to close the gap.
It isn't, there is still a primary race running on the Democratic side, which is fair game and part of the democratic process. That's a matter of fact, not opinion. There's also still in-fighting on the Republican side irrespective of Cruz dropping out. Republican's are in a sham at the moment tbh, and Trump however popular presently, imo will be far less effective in the GE. I think even the Republican's can smell this. I'd be utterly shocked if Trump doesn't have far more dirt on him that will be fairly easy for the Democratic campaign to effectively champion, over the next several months, especially from June onwards. I guess we shall see.
The evidence that she's received tens of millions from big business/special interest for things like speaking fee's is already out there. That's not really up for debate. The difference of opinion comes in whether you think those things will or will not have affected her partiality and judgement. For me personally, I think it's unbelievably naive to think it won't have. And I'd say the same for any candidate. In-fact, I'm usually arguing and criticising these sorts of things against the Republican side. Of course you're going to be aggressive in dropping the hammer on gun rights when you've profited thousands of dollars from the NRA. Of course you're going to be aggressive in dropping the hammer on big banks and financial institutes when you've profited millions of dollars from them.
Fenderputty
Banned
I hope she does.
Frozenprince
Banned
The fool gets rocked to hell and back for a month plus, and gets one W where he BARELY eeks it out (and makes up a whopping like 6 delegates) and suddenly it justifies staying in and continuing to literally burn money for a lost cause?
FOH
FOH
Define "effort". When we actually get there, unless Bernie turns things around, he'll need something like a 75-25 split, right? I wouldn't be too concerned.
eBay Huckster
Member
"the bare minimum to keep the margin in her favor by at least one vote statewide"
which may well be less than nothing in practice at this point, considering every race has swung on demographics
Okay, but it is, because we have our two candidates. Again, it doesn't matter if there are still primaries that have time to vote because it's all going through the motions. It's why Hillary isn't spending any money in any other primary race and barely spending any time in any other primary state. She doesn't have to because the primary is effectively over, and has been since the Acela Primary.
Trump has no opposition left after tonight, and with the endorsement by Reince. Hillary, but her lead is almost insurmountable. I don't deny that Trump is a terrible GE candidate with tons of things to exploit that Republicans never did in their quest to stop him, but I'd like all of Hillary's attention on Trump instead of on Bernie.
Agree to disagree, but I think you're being pedantic about when a primary ends that is not helpful as we move towards a two-person race. Or try to.
The Republicans are not in a sham any longer. They have a nominee. The party will fall in line. Their convention will come and go without a hitch. Kasich will eat a sandwich.
It is now the general election because Republicans are not going to waste time waiting on us Dems to figure our shit out before they make the switch. Just like the Clinton campaign has already started setting up shop in battleground states while the Sanders campaign lays off hundreds of staff. The gun has been fired. The race is on.
The GE has started whether you want it to or not. And Bernie knows this. That he hasn't stepped aside, that he continues to slander the presumptive nominee in lieu of promoting his message is not noble, it is not helpful, it does not bolster the party. It is the ultimate manifestation of an ego that has gone unchecked since he got his ass whooped in the South.
Frozenprince
Banned
The fact that he has so much money still and is using it to fight an already lost war instead of using it down ticket still REALLY bugs me.
I mean, Bernie is a non-factor at this point as far as winning the primary goes. Hillary can quite honestly just totally ignore him. HillaryGAF has spent a long time saying Bernie has been irrelevant since March15. Why is he all of a sudden a front at all?
The fate of Citizens United is now tied to the fate of Hillary Clinton's candidacy. But somehow this is difficult to comprehend for some.
I'd have zero problem if he were to stay in and stick to substance, issues, movement building, etc. But to stay in and continue with the innuendo/character attacks on the eventual nominee strikes me as short-sighted.
And I'm sorry, but "feelings" does not equal evidence, folks.
Bring. Actual. Evidence.
If you're going to allege something as serious as corruption, the onus is on YOU to provide actual evidence. This is not controversial. This is not difficult to understand.
Frozenprince
Banned
Because he has a lot of money and having both him AND Trump throw their entire weight behind slagging on Hillary does nothing but split more votes to Trump in the end.
Because of stupid shit like saying that she's unqualified for that she's money laundering. I mean, it's not a big deal, you're right. It's just unnecessary, especially when he's been yelling about how distrustful she is for a few months now. Maybe she is, and maybe he's right, but we're past the point where it's productive.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
And using the system as is, is not a legitimate way to levy the charge.
Use of the current flawed system isn't corruption. It's using every available resource to your advantage.
The onus is on us to hold her accountable for changing it, after the fact.
^ Same. Sanders was asked point blank to give an example of when she changed votes for special interests, simple question and a logical follow-up from the attacks he's been ramping up over the last few months...and he freezes like a deer in the headlights. My jaw dropped.
It's weird. I still want to believe he's well-meaning at heart, but his good intentions are increasingly mixed up with his appeal to a hyperbolic "everything outside our bubble is corrupt/evil" narrative that relies as much on conspiracy theories as it does on reality. It's disappointing and sad more than anything, because some of the things he says are really good, and then he goes on his stupid transcript rant and it all gets lost. I hope he rights the ship soon and channels his supporters towards something positive, instead of letting them fester in reality-denying conspiracy theories that leave them jaded for November.
BoboBrazil
Member
It's not his money so yolo? 😂
soundscream
Member
Lets be honest, Kasich just doesn't want to go back to Ohio. Would you?
He's just in this for the food at this point. Ohio isn't known for its cuisine.
A lot of Bhutanese refugees moved to northeast Ohio, so we Bhutanese/Indian food.
He's gonna get paid to eat In n Out and Tommy's burgers soon. He's sticking through till the end.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because none of his wins ever made him actually any more likely to win the nomination.
And when you're down 300 gaining only 6 is in fact devastating for his chances as the number of states left dwindle down.
Big Baybee
Member
Just like Bernie, you can't provide any evidence that money has affected her polices. Because there is none. Not in her voting record or in her policies.
Well, she supported the Panama trade agreements (which Bernie rejected and predicted would turn out exactly the way it did), plus this Elizabeth Warren video among other things just continues to back up the notion that Hillary is not averse to being a business interests first at the behest of public interests kind of candidate.
Elizabeth Warren on a Hillary Clinton's shift in policy (on Bankruptcy bill sponsored by Credit Card companies) favouring business interests over those of the general public
You do realize that part of the reason there aren't many Americans listed in the Panama Papers is that very free trade agreement? It upped enforcement and allowed the US to better fight that sort of thing.
Frozenprince
Banned
Why?
He's down 3 million votes and we aren't even near the percentages a GE would draw.
Box of Kittens
Banned
How so? I'm not advocating that Bernie drop out, but at this point he has no real chance at the nomination. Whether he stays or drops out it makes no difference. The election is going to be Clinton v. Trump.
The extent of the leaks hasn't yet been fully realised or released, so we don't actually know exactly how many American's etc have taken advantage of it. All we know is that many people, business etc (including American) have taken advantage of it and the gross tax avoidance benefits entailed. So far over 1000 American companies have been implicated.
Hillary is an incrementalist, no doubt about it, but great things in this country were achieved that way.
But that's besides the point, I think Bernie should withdraw because he can't win and he's just wasting time and money. I don't freak out over it, I don't think it's a huge deal (the 2008 primary didn't really hurt Obama for example) but I think that the right move here.
I didn't see people saying he should've withdrawn when he still had a path to victory.
exmachina64
Banned
The response (not mine) is always, "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
It's not broken, but many liberals don't want to risk Hillary's chance of winning with Trump focusing all of his attacks now on Hillary from the right while Hillary receives character attacks from the left that help Trump.
With the daily attacks we see on transgender rights, people want to minimize the risk that someone who will reverse the gains we've seen for decades will be elected.
If there were any big American names in there they would have come out first, let's be real. If Clinton or Obama or Trump or Bush or Gates or Jobs or any congressmen/senators/governors were listed those names would have come out in the first wave.
Apparently the bulk of the American side of things has yet to be leaked. So who really knows. I doubt the people you mentioned are on there personally (it would be political suicide), but you never know, especially with Trump. That said, I'm sure there will inevitably be some interesting targets that will still be on there, if the remainder ever gets fully leaked.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Someone needs to add health bars and SF2 sound effects to that Cruz elbow gif.
It's ironic: the rationale behind the the view that Hillary's behavior regarding money in politics is A-OK until there is quid pro quo corruption can be found in the MAJORITY OPINION of "Citizens United." And the rationale that it's questionable and leads to corruption? Can be found in the dissent.
I don't know how people can overlook Hillary's behavior and then turn around and cry about the decision in "Citizens United".
From Stevens' dissent: Corruption operates along a spectrum, and the majority's apparent belief that quid pro quo arrangements can be neatly demarcated from other improper influences does not accord with the theory or reality of politics.
You literally asked for this.
I don't know how people can overlook Hillary's behavior and then turn around and cry about the decision in "Citizens United".
From Stevens' dissent: Corruption operates along a spectrum, and the majority's apparent belief that quid pro quo arrangements can be neatly demarcated from other improper influences does not accord with the theory or reality of politics.
You literally asked for this.
What behavior are you referring to?
Leona Lewis
Banned
Can we all remind ourselves how much of a fool Romney looks after all this?
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