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May U.S. Primaries |OT| Glory to America

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D

Dirca

Member
Slayven said:
Bernie will be out rain or shine by the end June, and by Mid July he will be remembered just as much as a fart in the wind.
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Warden.jpg
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Well if you're comparing something as fundamental as voting to deciding where people have lunch, then of course you're going to have problems understanding my logic, silly guy.

Independents exist in larger numbers than either dems or republicans. If 'just registering as a dem' is such an easy process for people to go through, then open primaries would never be perceived in the first place as an advantage to Sanders.

Registering for anything (be it IDs or party affiliation) decreases turnout. We don't want decreased turnout (I don't anyway). It's not complicated.
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Most people are independent because they don't give a shit either way. And it is easy. The fact that people are generally too apathetic to care is irrelevant.
 
legacyzero

legacyzero

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
He has much chance of being the nominee as I do of waking up with Jessica Alba in the morning. Even if it turned out tomorrow that Hillary Clinton had secretly shot Vince Foster while filming a lesbian porno with Huma Abedin after giving a 13 year old an abortion, the party would just parachute in Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or whoever.

Bernie ain't winning shit. He can stand down for the good of the party or maybe we can find an ambitious female District Attorney or State Senator in Vermont who wants the full backing of the DNC in an upcoming election cycle.
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LOL come on now.

I'd vote for Uncle Joe in a heartbeat tho
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
Big Baybee said:
But why should people that aren't democrats decide who will be a democratic nominee? You still haven't explained that. It makes no sense. A primary is basically just a courtesy the party does so that members have a say in the process.
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Why do we have open primaries now if it's this cut and dry to you? It's as simple as: because these people, too, would like to decide who the democratic nominee is.

Voting should not require any form of registration. Are you a person in America? Great. Vote.


Aaronrules380 said:
Most people are independent because they don't give a shit either way. And it is easy. The fact that people are generally too apathetic to care is irrelevant.
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If you reduce every independent person's party affiliation to 'not giving a shit', then sure. Many people are independent for perfectly legitimate reasons. "I don't side with either democrat or republican" isn't "I don't give a fuck." But you're right about many of them probably just not caring enough. I don't believe that changes much though.
 
N

Nibiru

Banned
Bernie still stirring things up, fantastic and Trump seals the deal for the nomination. Low energy Bush got rekt now it's time to take out Crooked Hillary. I don't think Bernie has a chance but I just don't even know anymore this election cycle is just nuts.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Team Alucard said:
Yeah because that worked out so well the last time they tried that.

8ghzxH1.png
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I mean, in that case, most of the DNC backed Lieberman, so that's not the best plan.

I'm just saying, 2018's going to be a bad cycle anyway. Bernie's old. Time for some new blood.

Prodigal Son said:
Why do we have open primaries now if it's this cut and dry to you? It's as simple as: because these people, too, would like to decide who the democratic nominee is.

Voting should not require any form of registration. Are you a person in America? Great. Vote.
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Political parties make dumb decisions all the time. But yes, I agree. A vote for an actual political office should be open to all. But, political parties should be free to make any choice about who their nominees are. If the Green Party wants to have a hacky sack off, if the libertarian party wants to determine it by most weed smoke divided by tax bracket, or if the GOP just wants to directly consult Chutulu, that's on them. Even closed primaries are far more democratic than the rest of the Western world when it comes to choosing leadership.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Why do we have open primaries now if it's this cut and dry to you? It's as simple as: because these people, too, would like to decide who the democratic nominee is.

Voting should not require any form of registration. Are you a person in America? Great. Vote.
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But they aren't voting for the President. They're voting for who should represent the Democrat's party. By this logic, why not let Canadians vote in the US general elections?
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Guys I think you're being unfair by comparing Sanders to Dean.

Dean actually used his platform for productive downticket fights including Obama's senate run.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Why do we have open primaries now if it's this cut and dry to you? It's as simple as: because these people, too, would like to decide who the democratic nominee is.

Voting should not require any form of registration. Are you a person in America? Great. Vote.
Click to expand...

You do know the GOP and DNC are semi private organizations right?
 
B

Big Baybee

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Why do we have open primaries now if it's this cut and dry to you? It's as simple as: because these people, too, would like to decide who the democratic nominee is.

Voting should not require any form of registration. Are you a person in America? Great. Vote.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree with you for normal elections. NOT PRIMARIES. Like I said, don't want Republicans or independents to decide who gets to represent my PARTY in an election.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Well if you're comparing something as fundamental as voting to deciding where people have lunch, then of course you're going to have problems understanding my logic, silly guy.

Independents exist in larger numbers than either dems or republicans. If 'just registering as a dem' is such an easy process for people to go through, then open primaries would never be perceived in the first place as an advantage to Sanders.

Registering for anything (be it IDs or party affiliation) decreases turnout. We don't want decreased turnout (I don't anyway). It's not complicated.



As an independent, I never eat democrats. Goes straight to my thighs.
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Do you think non-union members should be able to vote for the leadership of a union?
 
T

titiklabingapat

Member
Dangansona said:
You're out of your mind if you think that is the impact of his campaign.
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At best, he is simply consolidating the white left wing of the party. This has happened before with Dean, Brown, Nader, etc and amounted to a whole lot of nothing. At worse, he is compromising the Democrats chance in downballot races in Nov.

The choice is pretty clear. He should quit now that cruaz has also quit.

Mango Positive said:
I think you put too much importance on "the party", as if all of our thoughts on a myriad of topics can be distilled into 2 different buckets of thought. I would argue that he's the only candidate that's in this for the betterment of mankind. You might think Hillary is also in this category, but my judgement tells me she just wants the power and the glory and the check mark in the box labeled "first female US president" in the text books. I may be wrong on that, but that's how she comes across to me.
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In a two party, First Past the Post system like what we have in the USA? Absolutely. If anything, it needs to be drilled to everyone else that it is that important. It is literally our guy versus theirs. There really is no other choice in our system of voting at this point in time. Any inkling of a third party/way is just a vote for the other, opposite party. Guaranteed. That's just how our system works, no way around it.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
Slayven said:
Bernie will be out rain or shine by the end June, and by Mid July he will be remembered just as much as a fart in the wind.
Click to expand...

I gotta disagree. He's so overwhelmingly popular among younger voters that Bernie and his views be relevant for a pretty long time.
 
D

Dangansona

Member
Big Baybee said:
But why should people that aren't democrats decide who will be a democratic nominee? You still haven't explained that. It makes no sense. A primary is basically just a courtesy the party does so that members have a say in the process.
Click to expand...

I would thing independent votes matter the same way party votes do; they are nominating the person they want to vote for in the general. Wouldn't you want to be sure to get the candidate who has the largest support?

Whether or not independents would have actually given Bernie the edge over Hillary, there is certainly a large group of them who won't be voting for her in the general.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Valhelm said:
I gotta disagree. He's so overwhelmingly popular among younger voters that Bernie and his views be relevant for a pretty long time.
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Howard Dean looked like the future of the party at one point too.

Dangansona said:
I would thing independent votes matter the same way party votes do; they are nominating the person they want to vote for in the general. Wouldn't you want to be sure to get the candidate who has the largest support?

Whether or not independents would have actually given Bernie the edge over Hillary, there is certainly a large group of them who won't be voting for her in the general.
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By that measure, the Democratic Party in 1984 should've nominated Ronald Reagan and the Republican's in 1940 should've nominated FDR.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Bernie should bow out cause it's over and dragging this on doesn't help his cause. Another 2 months of this does jack shit for his cause. Bow out gracefully now. Hillary won. Conjure up and excuse whether it leans towards what you might think as facts or just bullshit. Hillary still won. Sorry dems the breaks. Some Bernie supports are just dillusional at this point. The writing on the wall isnt gonna change.

That being said.

I hate this bullshit about down ticket dems. I'm forced to vote for these fucks cause I'm not voting for the other side. Yet for all the votes and even some campaigning from me this century MY down ticket dems have done jack fucking shit to improve things in my local area. I put this sqaurely at the feet of the DNC at my local, state, and national level.

At some point it would be nice to see some results and get thrown a bone once in a while.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
Slayven said:
You do know the GOP and DNC are semi private organizations right?
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Doesn't mean they're immune to criticism of their voting process, man. I'm not proposing an amendment.

Big Baybee said:
Yes, I agree with you for normal elections. NOT PRIMARIES. Like I said, don't want Republicans or independents to decide who gets to represent my PARTY in an election.
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You support more barriers that reduce turnout among likely voters? Awesome. The republicans would love to have you.

Aaronrules380 said:
But they aren't voting for the President. They're voting for who should represent the Democrat's party. By this logic, why not let Canadians vote in the US general elections?
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Really?
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
silkysmooth said:
Until those younger people grow up, get good paying jobs, and don't want to pay a ton of money in taxes.
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The way things are headed, many millennials will never have the luxury of growing up in the traditional sense, and getting the kinds of jobs their parents enjoyed.

Slayven said:
Just like Ron Paul supporters
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Ron Paul is a clown, but he left a pretty big mark on the GOP. Right-libertarians are a huge part of that party now, and I think it's reasonable for self-declared socialists to eventually make up a similar share of the Democratic party.
 
N

Nibiru

Banned
Valhelm said:
I gotta disagree. He's so overwhelmingly popular among younger voters that Bernie and his views be relevant for a pretty long time.
Click to expand...

This. Additionally the angle that his candidacy's fervent support is a kin to Dean or Kerry' is ridiculous.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Vanillalite said:
Bernie should bow out cause it's over and dragging this on doesn't help his cause. Another 2 months of this does jack shit for his cause. Bow out gracefully now. Hillary won. Conjure up and excuse whether it leans towards what you might think as facts or just bullshit. Hillary still won. Sorry dems the breaks. Some Bernie supports are just dillusional at this point. The writing on the wall isnt gonna change.

That being said.

I hate this bullshit about down ticket dems. I'm forced to vote for these fucks cause I'm not voting for the other side. Yet for all the votes and even some campaigning from me this century MY down ticket dems have done jack fucking shit to improve things in my local area. I put this sqaurely at the feet of the DNC at my local, state, and national level.

At some point it would be nice to see some results and get thrown a bone once in a while.
Click to expand...

Your party I'm sure has precient, local, and state meetings. Get involved. Hell, find a dozen or so friends and you can likely run your precient.

You know how I know this works? Because it's what the Right did after Goldwater lost.
 
B

Balphon

Member
Valhelm said:
I gotta disagree. He's so overwhelmingly popular among younger voters that Bernie and his views be relevant for a pretty long time.
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To be frank, younger voters are a fickle and unreliable constituency.

Voter turnout among people under 35 is reliably terrible.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Doesn't mean they're immune to criticism of their voting process, man. I'm not proposing an amendment.



You support more barriers that reduce turnout among likely voters? Awesome. The republicans would love to have you.



Really?
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I mean, Canadians are affected by the actions of the US president, but don't get to vote because they're not US citizens. Independents are affected by the Democratic nominee choice, but don't get to vote because they're not democrats. The main difference is it's a lot easier to register yourself as a democrat than to become a US citizen
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
JesseEwiak said:
Your party I'm sure has precient, local, and state meetings. Get involved. Hell, find a dozen or so friends and you can likely run your precient.

You know how I know this works? Because it's what the Right did after Goldwater lost.
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I've ALREADY been involved. I've gone to meetings. The Democratic party in my state and local area is a TOTAL FUCKING SHIT SHOW.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
gutter_trash said:
and he is 75 years and will 79 in four years
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I'm not sure if that matters much, as long as people with Bernie-like views eventually get elected.

Balphon said:
To be frank, younger voters are a fickle and unreliable constituency.

Voter turnout among people under 35 is reliably terrible.
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While this is true, partisanship is cemented during youth. Reagan revitalized the GOP by creating legions of future Republicans. Many or most Sanders supporters will stay left-wing as they age.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Crocodile said:
New York State has about 2 Democrats for every 1 Republican. If Democrats in that state wanted too, they could vote for the nominee of their choice AND the Republican nominee. Other states are similar (or flipped with 2x Republicans for Democrats). That's a problem. The October deadline for party switching is too far out but NY (and other states) having an open primary is problematic.
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Quoting myself here since it seems Prodigal Son ignored it. Things like the above are actually a big deal.

Let's also not pretend that most independents are actually independents, they still mostly vote along party lines :p
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Sure you didn't mean this? You might as well have meant this.

Putting up barriers of any sort makes less people vote. I'm sorry you disagree with that.
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Again. Actual elected office versus membership of a private organization. I don't care if 5 or 5 million people to vote for the Democratic nominee as long as all 5 or 5 million of those people declare themselves to be committed Democrat's.

Then, hopefully, we as a party will choose the best nominee for the general.
 
Battersea Power Station

Battersea Power Station

Member
Wow, fantastic result for the Sanders campaign tonight. They've got an impossible road ahead of them, but this is a good start to the Spring for those rooting for him.

Hillary just has to stay the course and all should be simple for her from here on out.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
JesseEwiak said:
Again. Actual elected office versus membership of a private organization. I don't care if 5 or 5 million people to vote for the Democratic nominee as long as all 5 or 5 million of those people declare themselves to be committed Democrat's.

Then, hopefully, we as a party will choose the best nominee for the general.
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Again, being a private organization doesn't exempt them from criticism. I'd argue that the very same core principles that allow us to favor open voting in generals is also applicable to any other voting process.

Non-rhetorical question: Why do you think some states open their primaries?
 
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