N64 and Gamecube were both entirely traditional consoles. And it's not like SNES wasn't gimped in dumb ways too (like the slow CPU).
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MCV: Mario & Pokemon coming within 6 months of NX launch, 3rd parties, exec comment
- Thread starter JehutyRunner
- Start date
It failed for a variety of reasons. Partly because of bad aesthetic and marketing decisions. And partly because the first-party line up faltered greatly from the Nintendo 64, and it had slim picking of third-party exclusives.
It wasn't the ultimate core Nintendo experience by any means. The N64 and SNES were.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
GC design, basically no online, the controller, marketing and missing out on a lot of important titles like GTA killed it. It should have had a DVD player too.
"No online" did not kill the GC any more than it "killed" the PS2. It was kind of a novelty with the Xbox and didn't really come into its own until the following generation.
But yes, aesthetic was part of it; they were trying to make the device non-threatening but they overdid it. No GTA3 and no DVD playback were the two biggest things by far; those two elements alone won that generation for PS2.
OrbitalBeard
Member
If the Panasonic Q had launched in the west day and date with the vanilla GCN, I bet it wouldn't have made a lick of difference.
DVD was huge for the PS2 because of when that console launched. You could play DVDs on Xbox and it did nothing for that system.
I think the more realistic reason for GCN's failure is that there isn't room for three traditional consoles in the market.
Debatable. I'd put the NES above both of those, for example.
On top of my head, what i expect from launch line-up:
Zelda BotW
Animal Crossing NX
Mario Party NX
Smash Bros HD (WiiU ver.@60fps)
Mario Maker HD (digital)
Mario Kart 8 (digital)
+ 3rd parties like Injustice 2, Lego SW, Battlefield 1, Watch_Dogs 2, World of FF etc.
For the rest of the year:
Mario NX
Pokémon Star
Pokken HD
+ 3rd parties like MonHun Stories HD, Dragon Quest XI (still don't know which ver.) etc.
For the future games like Metroid, Donkey Kong and Kid Icarus NX, Splatoon 2, Monolith's next game, and 3rd parties like Bravely Third, MonHun 5, Devil Summoner 3, Inazuma Eleven Ares and that new mecha game from L5.
Zelda BotW
Animal Crossing NX
Mario Party NX
Smash Bros HD (WiiU ver.@60fps)
Mario Maker HD (digital)
Mario Kart 8 (digital)
+ 3rd parties like Injustice 2, Lego SW, Battlefield 1, Watch_Dogs 2, World of FF etc.
For the rest of the year:
Mario NX
Pokémon Star
Pokken HD
+ 3rd parties like MonHun Stories HD, Dragon Quest XI (still don't know which ver.) etc.
For the future games like Metroid, Donkey Kong and Kid Icarus NX, Splatoon 2, Monolith's next game, and 3rd parties like Bravely Third, MonHun 5, Devil Summoner 3, Inazuma Eleven Ares and that new mecha game from L5.
Getting rid of the hub worlds for a Mario 3D All-Stars would be horrible. That's the most ridiculous and back-asswards idea I've ever heard, lol.
Teletraan1
Banned
GCN failed because it was late to the party that PS2 was dominating. The OG Xbox failed too but you didn't see Microsoft just fucking off into obscurity. That generation is one hell of a lousy benchmark as to the success or failure of certain initiatives by any company not named Sony.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Neither did Nintendo.
PS2 didn't truly take off until right around the launch period for GameCube and Xbox, though. Sony had managed to get into some homes via the whole DVD Trojan horse, but it was GTAIII that really propelled them ahead, which came out just a month before the other consoles launched. Had Nintendo or Microsoft managed to have that game at launch, things could have played out a bit differently.
KingJ2002
Member
That's one reason but when you compound these:
- Lack of DVD
- No Online Support
- No Hard Drive Support
- Controller Design
With a late launch and a "kiddie" image which was damning at the time... Nintendo gets 3rd place.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I actually don't think these reasons had anything to do with it. DVD would have been a factor for sure if GCN had launched in 2000. MS had all four bullet points and only managed to sell a couple million more units The "kiddie" image however, certainly played a factor. I'll never understand the decision to release a purple console.
I think the reality is that the market isn't all that interested in a traditional core-focused Nintendo console anymore.
I don't buy it.A new RPG pokemon sequel. It would be too awesome.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I don't think that is a plot twist at all, and in fact is the likely situation. We still have yet to hear anyone say the NX version will have better graphics.
OrbitalBeard
Member
So, you actually believe the NX will output inferior visuals than Wii U?
Not buying that. They'd have to try pretty hard to come out with a new console four years after the Wii U that's less powerful. And the context of the "industry-leading chips" comment from Nintendo was that they didn't want to make something people felt was grossly underpowered.
Teletraan1
Banned
Typical Nintendo Stan. Ignore the meat of the argument that actually matters to the discussion at hand and focus on worthless details. I can edit that out but you won't actually comment on what I said.
All post 3D generations took a while to take off. PS2 already had everyone's mind share before GCN or anyone else even showed up to the party or was already in a cab home. (Sega)
That one game was not going to turn the tides. maybe if they got the other mountain of games that the other 2 systems did not maybe it would have been different but that only proves peoples point. If it could have been different then why not try again when the deck isn't so stacked?
It's easy to forget now (Jesus it's been 15 years), but that one game absolutely did turn the tides. I was working in games retail at the time, and I can tell you without exaggeration that probably a good 2 to 3 out of 5 questions I answered during not only that holiday season but the half year beyond were about GTAIII (and knowing how many different questions people can have about gaming, that's a lot). During that holiday season we'd receive shipments of over a hundred copies and sell through them within a day. People would grill us for info on when a new shipment would arrive. And while stock improved after the holidays, its popularity didn't for close to a year after that. I'd tell people the relative merits of each console, and all they wanted to know was where they could play Grand Theft Auto. It was a phenomenon.
JohnTinker
Limbaugh Parrot
You guys expecting 8 first party launch titles have got to be delusional or are trolling. They won't choke out third party launch titles Day 1.
OrbitalBeard
Member
The smaller size of the discs certainly affected the quality of GC ports. There was zero reason for them. They were different for the sake of being different. The damn thing was also purple and had a handle. It was more powerful, but it certainly wasn't used. Playstation simply had more games, better games, bigger games and ripped the mindshare from Nintendo back during PS1/N64 and it carried over.
OrbitalBeard
Member
But a PS4-level Nintendo console in 2017 is going to succeed?
The GC discs were different because Nintendo felt it would hold back piracy, because it allowed them to avoid paying fees to the DVD Consortium, and because it allowed them to continue chasing the media format licensing model they were so reluctant to give up on with cartridges. Which, of course, was one of the major reasons they alienated third parties in those days.
Depends. They could have an impact of the console was desirable, got 3rd parties on board and filled the Family Friendly niche well. This is a GIGANTIC hole that needs to be filled in the market but doesn't need to be filled with gimmick bullshit. A console that specializes in Nintendo based, offline and online co-op games with a bit of modern tech and a decent HDD? And a good price?I could see it.
Nintendo doesn't need to chase power to compete. PS4 level will be "standard" for another 4-6 years in the market. The tech is old too.
KingJ2002
Member
Microsoft's console was unappealing due to the company's brand (no one wanted a PC in the living room... remember that rhetoric?) but they worked through that with aggressive marketing, acquisitions, exclusive deals and the success of Halo (along with many other first person shooters).
Nintendo on the other hand shot themselves in the foot with third parties due to their disc size and absent online support. Games such as GTA, MGS, FFX, DMC, and many other titles did not see the light of day on Nintendo's console skewing their demographics towards the youth which represented a minority stake in the market.
The console color was not the biggest issue... outside of the handle... the console came in three colors... purple, orange and black... then eventually gold, and platinum. If people wanted a console to match their living room setup the black was available.
Controller design definitely alienated their console as well...
With the NX Nintendo has to realize that traditional control schemes need to be supported.
With Nintendo creaing the Nintendo Network i doubt online will ever be an issue again... but if they can deliver a system that can produce current gen graphics (doesn't have to be at the high end... but must look comparable on TV's) and a controller scheme that is more traditional than unique... I believe the NX will sell particularly well... especially in areas like Japan where game industry has slowed down and skewed towards a mobile market.
OrbitalBeard
Member
A system you're describing sounds great to me on a personal level, but it also sounds like something that would top out at around 15-20 million units.
ShockingAlberto
Member
If Nintendo just did everything perfectly and didn't make mistakes, they would be accepted fine.
I don't know why that's so hard??
I don't know why that's so hard??
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
On the handheld? It's possible. I think there's a likely chance the game looks worse on the handheld and identical to Wii U on TV.
Eh whatevs. We're just shooting the shit. =)
In gaming, you can make comebacks and you can fuck up. Every platform holder has fucked up. Some even multiple times. Some come back.
The only thing holding Nintendo back is Nintendo.
GC absolutely dominated N64 in terms of exclusive line up. N64 was pathetic.
If you expect that many first party games at launch, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment. Nintendo has never had that many FP games at launch.
Diddy Kong
Banned
Zelda: BotW
Pokemon Yellow NX
Super Mario NX
Diddy Kong Racing 2
Smash NX (port)
I'm ready.
Pokemon Yellow NX
Super Mario NX
Diddy Kong Racing 2
Smash NX (port)
I'm ready.
Really? Half of those would be ports of old games, one a WiiU co-developed title and just two of them would be brand new NX titles, doesn't really seems that much imho.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Those are already HD though...and the Wii U Smash is already 60fps.
I dunno, I see Nintendo's history and think
I think Nintendo has made some huge blunders, but I also love how bold and imaginative they are. And I love how they don't try to just appeal to the rigid, boring rules that apparently appeals to "core gamers".
I dunno, I'm not so sure that a more traditional Nintendo console couldn't work. The PS2 was a fucking beast that neither Nintendo or MS could ever hope to rival. That gen wasn't really a fair fight.
But it's kind of irrelevant, because I don't think Nintendo has any interest in trying to win that race, or even compete in it.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Some of these posts are fucking pitiful.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Zelda BotW at launch... so any self respectful gamer will buy it 
I really hope for Pikmin 4 at launch (with Wiimote controls!).
I really hope for Pikmin 4 at launch (with Wiimote controls!).
Unfortunately, yeah, I think so. I'd be glad to be wrong but it would be unlike Nintendo's MO in the past, especially since usually their ports involve significant changes or new content.
SinCityAssassin
Member
We're still going with these weird names??? I was just getting used to the Nintendrones insult.
ReyVGM
Member
Not exactly a sequel, but...
In hindsight, it's weird Wario was even playable in this remake.
Now that you mention it, it's true. Aside from Mario Land 2, Wario has never been in another (traditional) Mario game until SM64.
Wario went on to star in his own games with very distinct world and style, so it's kinda weird seeing him playable in a Mario game.
"Eiji Aonuma has told Tom Phillips at Eurogamer that the Nintendo NX version of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will be the same experience but will feature improved visuals."
He was probably referring to the docked mode of the NX, but that's fine. Better graphics than Wii U at home, and comparable graphics to Wii U on the go sounds great to me.
He was probably referring to the docked mode of the NX, but that's fine. Better graphics than Wii U at home, and comparable graphics to Wii U on the go sounds great to me.
Skittzo0413
Member
Source for this? I remember seeing a similar tweet which was just the journalist assuming he meant improved visuals, when he said nothing about the visuals.
Either way, as of now docked mode isn't necessarily a thing, but it's highly unlikely that the NX won't be at the very lowest close to 2x more powerful than a Wii U, even on battery. So it should be be improved visuals no matter what.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
no, I too am at a loss trying to figure out why you thought "neither did Nintendo' was an actual response to what he had said to you
Damn actually he said "different visuals" not better lol
I found a tweet where Tom was asked about the difference, and he actually said 'different' visuals. All of the other sites have reported on it as 'improved' visuals though, so I'm unsure if this was the original source...and there's no clarification from Tom on his twitter. At the very least he still seems to have taken Aonuma's comments to mean the visuals would be 'improved' based on other replies. He says:
"No but didn't need to! Wii U version is beautiful but feels like better hardware will benefit it. Some low textures, pop-in"
I guess it's unclear for now.
Skittzo0413
Member
I'm pretty sure the "different visuals" part is completely his speculation. Not that I think the NX version won't have improved visuals, but it's pretty clear Aonuma never actually said this.
I believe Reggie hinted at different visuals for Breath of the Wild in his interview with iJustine.
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