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[PaulLFC]

Indeed. This shit won't fly in Europe, the national competition boards and the EU CC will force MS to open up the system.

Hopefully. There should be no reason we shouldn't be allowed to sell our own games via eBay/Amazon/wherever

 

[dyergram]

Whenever I sell my games I do it privately, this just allows shitty retailers to offer offensive prices for trade in and charge pretty much whatever they like. Not a an of this at all.

 

[Erasus]

Also, does that mean each game disc now has a unique identifier chip in it somewhere, otherwise how will the retailer know which account the traded in disc comes from? Doesn't work otherwise unless GameStop have a box in the store where people trading in games can log in and mark the games as traded or something. Very cumbersome without a unique identifier chip, also that is technology that would have to be licenced from Sony, who I'm quite sure are not selling a licence for that tech.

I dont think so.... a physical chip? Why not:

Each XBone has a unique serial number
User puts new sealed game into XBone
Game gets installed to disc, tied to his console and the serial number is written to the disc
User trades in game to store, they have a devkit/computer that reads the serial code, deactivates the games from users console.

 

[twobear]

Indeed. This shit won't fly in Europe, the national competition boards and the EU CC will force MS to open up the system.

I'm still waiting on Steam reselling after the EU's ruling.

 

[Artorias]

So what? Who lends £40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

Never seen a Blu Ray disc I guess?

Either way, I don't lend my discs to rabid animals so I'm good.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

So is eBay one of these retailers? Is fucking Craigslist one of these retailers?

 

[bobbytkc]

I'm confused
Sooo what if I want to sell it on ebay?

You can't. This is actually terrible for me. I don't trade in to retailers, I trade games online.

 

[eternalb]

Games aren't cars.

Neither are CD or DVDs.

 

[ShinobiFist]

No fucking way. So I'm fucked when I import games. This is stupid.

 

[netBuff]

I don't see how this will effect cost one way or another. You'll buy a used game the same way you always have. How you get it to work is what's changing.

How could it not adjust prices of used games upwards? Of course it will affect cost: Publishers/Microsoft will want their cut, that's the whole reason for this system. In addition, no competition from private sellers on eBay, Amazon Marketplace etc. will mean additional pressure is gone.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Sony have a very broad patent on including unique identifier chips in game discs. I'm pretty sure MS would have to licence it.

Yep, but their choosing not to is rather silly. The tech seems sound.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I'm still waiting on Steam reselling after the EU's ruling.

The difference is, that Valve wasnt targeted by the EU in the past, unlike Microsoft.

Different Topic, it was about Windows, but I am sure, they have a closer look at all actions of MS.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Publishers Win

Retailers Win


This is something both sides of the equation can support... what, therefore is the big deal if you can still go to a major retailer and trade in your stuff?

Who cares if it is wiped from your account? You no longer have the fucking game.

can I trade games with my brothers? that's a big deal.

 

[cluderi]

So if I get bored during the post launch lack of titles (which happens with every console) how do I sell my games with my console to another person?

Oh right I can't but I guess I can always rely on what Ebgames are willing to give me (usually nack all)

 

[Mpl90]

I can't see how gamestop or game are going to be ok with that haha. Start stacking those wii u pre-owned games up boys

...Wait. So not only people will have to pay for buying pre-owned games, but they will pay for activation too? ...A 35 Pounds fee activation? WHAT?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No private sales makes it a cartel.

Per PH's description, the solution for private sales will be a user-to-user license exchange over the network. The buyer will pay full price. The seller will, I presume, only get Xbox credit and not be able to cash out their cut of the sale.

They are allowing private sales, just through their own network via licence transfers.

Essentially gifting but more convoluted.

 

[Alx]

It mostly sucks for independent shops, that probably won't be able to enter that system.
Otherwise it looks like a decent compromise.
A better scenario would have been to allow anybody to "wipe" the game on the MS servers, that would allow trading with private individuals and independent shops.

*edit : didn't know about the private licence transfers. But if it is full price, there's no real benefit for the buyer.

 

[shinra-bansho]

300,000 servers put to good use, clearly.

 

[Erasus]

Is this real life? Honestly, there are people who are actually OKAY/FINE with this? Really? REALLY?

1. Destroys companies like Gamefly, and Blockbuster, and Redbox for renting games.

2. Destroys private selling to friends/co-workers/relatives/etc..

3. Can't lend/borrow game to your friend for a few days anymore.

I mean this is anti-consumerism at it's finest, and some of you are actually "okay" and "fine" with this. Just shaking my head right now in utter disbelief. It'll be because of people like you that drives this industry towards further hell.

1. Does not exist here

2. This is bad as I said

3. Same as 2

DRM is bad I kind of agree. Steam Im fine with but DRM like movies have is bad

 

[Trent Strong]

Doesn't sound too bad. It's good that developers are getting a cut of used game sales. Hopefully Amazon is one of the authorized resellers.

 

[gofreak]

Kills eBay and Amazon marketplace and selling the game privately.

Also, does that mean each game disc now has a unique identifier chip in it somewhere, otherwise how will the retailer know which account the traded in disc comes from?

I think you can imprint a UID on discs without a chip or whatever. I think this is already done on some platforms?

As long as they have a unique identifier, MS can know exactly where a disc is at all times. Which user or which retailer.

This is enough to know which retailer to ask a cut from.

It's enough to know whether to ask the buying user for a fee or not (i.e. don't ask if the disc was last at an approved retailer, do ask otherwise).

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Yep, but their choosing not to is rather silly. The tech seems sound.

It's in Sony's interest to make trading games on Xbone as convoluted as possible and the licence fees would be minimal so if MS are going to use it and infringe it's a court case they will lose, or if they haven't licenced it then the system will be very cumbersome for people who want to trade their games.

They are allowing private sales, just through their own network via licence transfers.

Essentially gifting but more convoluted.

No, I can't sell my Xbone games to a random person in a pub. They are blocking private sales.

I think you can imprint a UID on discs without a chip or whatever. I think this is already done on some platforms?

As long as they have a unique identifier, MS can know exactly where a disc is at all times. Which user or which retailer.

This is enough to know which retailer to ask a cut from.

It's enough to know whether to ask the buying user for a fee or not (i.e. don't ask if the disc was last at an approved retailer, do ask otherwise).

Sony have a patent on that tech.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Publishers Win

Retailers Win

Consumers lose.

You once had the option to sell your game anywhere you wanted, now one more part of the market is under control of the platform holder.

 

[Sounddeli]

Has anybody read this??

On Used Games

GamesBeat: There’s been a lot of chatter on particular controversial subjects leading up to this. People want to know about used games, about backward compatibility, and about the constant connection. What are some of the facts on those? Can you play used games on the Xbox One? Do you have to pay a fee?

Harrison: Just like today, if you have a game disc that you buy from the store, you can play that game. The game is now installed to the hard drive. Any user who is associated with that Xbox One can play that game. I can give that game disc to my son and he can go and take it to another machine inside the house and play it on that machine. Just like today, only one of us can play it at any one time.

The difference, though — the benefit of Xbox One is that that data can roam with me. I can go to my friend’s house. I can log in as myself into his machine. I can then play that game on his machine, and while I’m logged in, he can play it as well.

GamesBeat: Do you bring your disc with you, or could you use his disc?

Harrison: Doesn’t matter, yeah. If I bring my disc with me and I leave the bits on his hard drive, but he wants to play the game, he can buy the game — just like today. But in this instance, the bits were already on his hard drive, so it’s an instant switch-out. We will have a solution — and we’re not talking about the details today but just to take the angst out of this — that allows a user to trade that game back in and to give up the right to play that game.there's more questions in the article so give it a read.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

...Wait. So not only people will have to pay for buying pre-owned games, but they will pay for activation too? ...A 35 Pounds fee activation? WHAT?

That doesn't sound right. Selling the licence should give the person who buys it full access to the game without the need for any activation fees.

 

[Phire Phox]

Doesn't sound too bad. It's good that developers are getting a cut of used game sales. Hopefully Amazon is one of the authorized resellers.

This

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Publishers Win

Retailers Win


This is something both sides of the equation can support... what, therefore is the big deal if you can still go to a major retailer and trade in your stuff?

Who cares if it is wiped from your account? You no longer have the fucking game.

What about the actual people who own the game and have bought it with their own hard earned money?

This

Developers get next to nothing. This only gives more power to publishers.

 

[Gowans]

I'm guessing if the disc is installed on a new system/account then it's removed from the old.

So retailers don't matter, you can give to a friend etc.

Seems the old decent way to handle it.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Ugh.

I like that publishers get a cut, but fuuuuuuuuck not being able to do anything with your games privately.

No borrowing, no private selling, no buy.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Is this real life? Honestly, there are people who are actually OKAY/FINE with this? Really? REALLY?

Destroys companies like Gamefly, and Blockbuster, and Redbox for renting games.

Destroys private selling to friends/co-workers/relatives/etc..

Can't lend/borrow game to your friend for a few days anymore.

I mean this is anti-consumerism at it's finest, and some of you are actually "okay" and "fine" with this. Just shaking my head right now in utter disbelief. It'll be because of people like you that drives this industry towards further hell.

If it makes you feel any better, not all of us are insane.

 

[Ghost]

why couldn't they have just announced that!?

 

[Samir Sedlar]

What about the other countries with Gamestop ?!, or those big stores ?!

Those gamers are fucked right ?!, I mean why would they live outside the USA ?!




Also what about Lending my game to my friend ?!, or borrowing his ?!, assuming their is some kinda of licence transfer, will it be free ?!, or will we end up paying twice to return the licence to me after he is done with the game ?!




This is fucked up.

 

[netBuff]

This

You know you're the one that will be paying that cut? And why should developers actually get additional money from a product that was already bought and paid?

I'm guessing if the disc is installed on a new system/account then it's removed from the old.

So retailers don't matter, you can give to a friend etc.

Seems the old decent way to handle it.

License transfer will cost a fee, so no borrowing.

 

[mclem]

Kills eBay and Amazon marketplace and selling the game privately.

Also, does that mean each game disc now has a unique identifier chip in it somewhere, otherwise how will the retailer know which account the traded in disc comes from? Doesn't work otherwise unless GameStop have a box in the store where people trading in games can log in and mark the games as traded or something. Very cumbersome without a unique identifier chip, also that is technology that would have to be licenced from Sony, who I'm quite sure are not selling a licence for that tech.

I was wondering this earlier. Would it be possible to inject a unique identifier into each disc at the manufacture level? That'd do the trick - the servers would handle matching that identifier to the account, you wouldn't actually need to store data on a chip.

In theory they could make a system for allowing home users to deactivate their copy of the game too to allow sales and loans outside the store environment, too, but that's going to introduce interesting problems in terms of the purchaser verifying at the point of purchase that the game in question has actually been deactivated.

 

[Boy Wander]

Kills eBay and Amazon marketplace and selling the game privately.

Also, does that mean each game disc now has a unique identifier chip in it somewhere, otherwise how will the retailer know which account the traded in disc comes from? Doesn't work otherwise unless GameStop have a box in the store where people trading in games can log in and mark the games as traded or something. Very cumbersome without a unique identifier chip, also that is technology that would have to be licenced from Sony, who I'm quite sure are not selling a licence for that tech.

You're missing the bit where it says that retailers have to tie into Azure. Doesn't this also mean the end of small independent retailers being able to sell used games? I would assume there would be a cost associated with hooking into Azure unless its simply a web-based thing that retailers need to register for?

 

[$h@d0w]

Publishers Win

Retailers Win

Consumers Lose

 

[Taker666]

This is really bad for the consumer.


...if the public can't sell to each other then retail can give you a really shitty price for the used games thanks to the drop in competition.

Retail gets a cut , Microst gets a cut..the user gets way less.

If I have a game to sell it's nearly always via ebay.....as you get way more by cutting out the middle man.

If anything this is worse than I thought it would be...as I didn't think they would stop private selling.

 

[hurzelein]

Microsoft is happy - gets cut.

Publishers are happy - get cut (I support this part).

Gamestop is happy - Private market and amazon/ebay get killed.

And thats the big problem!

You are completly dependent what they give you at gamestop. In Germany for example Gamestop is the only major games-selling chain, some private owned little gaming-stores excluded, there are no other stores that specialise in gaming.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Publishers Win

Retailers Win


This is something both sides of the equation can support... what, therefore is the big deal if you can still go to a major retailer and trade in your stuff?

Who cares if it is wiped from your account? You no longer have the fucking game.

Consumers?

What the hell are you? A publisher/retailer.....no your a consumer.

 

[Xater]

Is this real life? Honestly, there are people who are actually OKAY/FINE with this? Really? REALLY?

Destroys companies like Gamefly, and Blockbuster, and Redbox for renting games.

Destroys private selling to friends/co-workers/relatives/etc..

Can't lend/borrow game to your friend for a few days anymore.

I mean this is anti-consumerism at it's finest, and some of you are actually "okay" and "fine" with this. Just shaking my head right now in utter disbelief. It'll be because of people like you that drives this industry towards further hell.

Lots of crazies and corporate apologists on GAF, but not all of us are like that. Nothing about this is ok.

 

[gofreak]

I'm guessing if the disc is installed on a new system/account then it's removed from the old.

So retailers don't matter, you can give to a friend etc.

Seems the old decent way to handle it.

From what PH and Booty said, if the game goes user-to-user, a fee is involved. "It's like buying the game new".

If there's an approved middleman involved - the retailer - who is paying a cut to MS, there won't be a fee involved for the new buyer.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

You're missing the bit where it says that retailers have to tie into Azure. Doesn't this also mean the end of small independent retailers being able to sell used games? I would assume there would be a cost associated with hooking into Azure unless its simply a web-based thing that retailers need to register for?

And what if I want to privately sell a game to my friend, as people have been doing with property for hundreds of years?

Oh right, fuck that, because these dipshits want another cut on their idiotic $60 AAA structure that's the actual cause of all of this.

 

[sephi22]

I'm also inclined to believe this is true as it explains Amazon's salty article this morning:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=564733

"The Xbox One’s disappointing reveal has shot up sales of the Wii U on Amazon.com. The system was at #390 before the conference, but now has shot up to #40 due to Microsoft’s glorified TV box.

This momentum should carry Nintendo right into the summer as they have big plans for the Wii U at E3 and this fall. The console race has just begun but it’s good to see gamers are picking up a system that’s dedicated to gaming first, and multimedia second."

Because this system will effectively kill used Marketplace for Xbone games.



Sony have a very broad patent on including unique identifier chips in game discs. I'm pretty sure MS would have to licence it.

Amazon didn't say any of that. The figures were taken from Amazon. The site that took the figures said that.

 

[dab0ne]

I like it!

However,

I can't let my brother borrow games and I can't replay older games in years to come. This also forces the always online which I'm strongly against. Throw in the need for a Kinect (lets face it, a connect free version would be cheaper) and you still have a shit way of doing this. I'm still out... for now.

 

[BennBeckman]

Per PH's description, the solution for private sales will be a user-to-user license exchange over the network. The buyer will pay full price. The seller will, I presume, only get Xbox credit and not be able to cash out their cut of the sale.

.

why would you ever want to pay just as much for second hand game as a new one?

why should your game become valueless as soon as you buy it (xbox credit notwithstanding)?

why should you be forced to sell your game for "credit" that must (presumably) be used on microsoft's store to buy software at highly inflated prices

this still effectively kills private selling, because no-one will pay full "microsoft store price" for second hand games

 

[Withnail]

I don't see why the discs need a UID? It's all done through Live accounts.

Both the seller and the buyer of the used game will presumably have to give their live account details at the point of transaction. The retailer will register the transactions with MS's systems.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Has anybody read this??

On Used Games

Harrison: Just like today, if you have a game disc that you buy from the store, you can play that game. The game is now installed to the hard drive. Any user who is associated with that Xbox One can play that game. I can give that game disc to my son and he can go and take it to another machine inside the house and play it on that machine. Just like today, only one of us can play it at any one time.

The difference, though — the benefit of Xbox One is that that data can roam with me. I can go to my friend’s house. I can log in as myself into his machine. I can then play that game on his machine, and while I’m logged in, he can play it as well.

Interesting.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publ...of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137



Pretty much exactly what I and a couple of other posters were suggesting in another thread. Not code based though by the sounds of it.

edit - if a Mod could add 'Xbox One' to the title, that'd be great Sorry...

What I thought.

No more personal trade/sell. Only retailers can buy/trade your game.

Publishers win.Retailers win. Consumers lose.

I guess that MS/publishers set the second hand game value and get a cut?

 

[TomJoadsGhost]

Its a big relief to me to know that the concerns of sufficiently sized businesses have been considered and addressed.

still MCV is a trade paper so that is kind of their audience.

 

[Arjen]

Is this real life? Honestly, there are people who are actually OKAY/FINE with this? Really? REALLY?

Destroys companies like Gamefly, and Blockbuster, and Redbox for renting games.

Destroys private selling to friends/co-workers/relatives/etc..

Can't lend/borrow game to your friend for a few days anymore.

I mean this is anti-consumerism at it's finest, and some of you are actually "okay" and "fine" with this. Just shaking my head right now in utter disbelief. It'll be because of people like you that drives this industry towards further hell.

And this is why the games industry is the only industry that can get away with this.
Apparantly a big majority of 'gamers' are a bunch of idiots, uncapable, dumb and afraid to stand up for your rights. Sickening