Support NeoGAF

[Joe211]

I'm glad to see people are buying PS3, even if it's for a demo...
I don't think SE did a bad thing by not releasing their games on PS3 until now cause their line up on the 360 consist in B titles.
I think they'll start to release big games on the two consoles starting this year, and we won't see another exclusive title for the 360 from them.

 

[Warren Ellis]

i love my ps3 and i hate xbox360 but came on.. this generation microsoft doesn't need to buy everything. Every fucking thing on their console sells. For example: ff XIII without xbox 360: 3+ millions worldwide. FF XIII with xbox360: at least 5 millions worldwide.

 

[Kogepan]

I'm glad to see people are buying PS3, even if it's for a demo...
I don't think SE did a bad thing by not releasing their games on PS3 until now cause their line up on the 360 consist in B titles.
I think they'll start to release big games on the two consoles starting this year, and we won't see another exclusive title for the 360 from them.

yeh, hopefully the PS3 can keep the momentum up. Unfortunately the software lineup for the rest of the year aint that hot.

Interesting to see what kind of numbers Killzone will pulll in the land of the rising sun...

 

[Paracelsus]

ff XIII without xbox 360: 3+ millions worldwide. FF XIII with xbox360: at least 5 millions worldwide.

If MGS4 managed to sell 4.5mln copies on a 12mln growing into a 19-21mln userbase, FFXIII would have sold at least the same amount if not over 5mln on an hypothetical 27+mln 2010 PS3 userbase. That does not exclude the fact that the way things are now, multiplatform is still better.

 

[neojubei]

i love my ps3 and i hate xbox360 but came on.. this generation microsoft doesn't need to buy everything. Every fucking thing on their console sells. For example: ff XIII without xbox 360: 3+ millions worldwide. FF XIII with xbox360: at least 5 millions worldwide.

Namco would like to have a word with you.

 

[Byakuya769]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but Valkyria Chronicles got an animated series earlier this month. Could have also aided in the bump

... my man.

 

[MoogPaul]

I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about SE output this generation. I have many HD SE games... I own more SE HD games than Capcom.

 

[gkryhewy]

I'm glad to see people are buying PS3, even if it's for a demo...
I don't think SE did a bad thing by not releasing their games on PS3 until now cause their line up on the 360 consist in B titles.
I think they'll start to release big games on the two consoles starting this year, and we won't see another exclusive title for the 360 from them.

Last Remnant is one of the best games I've played in YEARS!!! More "B" titles, please. Here's hoping it gets ported to PS3 eventually - all you bitter single platform folk should definitely buy it. Don't hold a grudge.

 

[Eteric Rice]

God, I wish they would do something on the Wii besides these dungeon crawlers and CC games. I know Dragon Quest X is there, but that won't be out for years.

 

[Defuser]

I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about SE output this generation. I have many HD SE games... I own more SE HD games than Capcom.

More like Tri-Ace output. SE have yet to output something of their own other than TLR.

 

[Link]

IF, thats a huge if, GT5 hits this year aswell...then the PS3 will outsell it. GT5 and FFXIII will sell several hundred thousand units of hardware between them. Thats my bet anyway.

GT5 isn't going to do much. Most people interested in have have more than likely already bought a PS3 for one of the many Prologue versions already released. Hardware bump? Sure. "Several hundred thousand units"? Not even close.

God, I wish they would do something on the Wii besides these dungeon crawlers and CC games. I know Dragon Quest X is there, but that won't be out for years.

Keep the dream alive.

 

[gtj1092]

GT5 isn't going to do much. Most people interested in have have more than likely already bought a PS3 for one of the many Prologue versions already released. Hardware bump? Sure. "Several hundred thousand units"? Not even close.

Keep the dream alive.

So you're saying WSR is going to do much for Wii hardware sales?

 

[schuelma]

So you're saying WSR is going to do much for Wii hardware sales?

I think that depends on whether the Japanese public decides that they like/need Motion+

 

[Link]

So you're saying WSR is going to do much for Wii hardware sales?

No I'm not. In fact, I've said just the opposite.

 

[botticus]

So you're saying WSR is going to do much for Wii hardware sales?

If Wii Sports Resort were a simple follow-up to Wii Sports, I would say no. But Motion+ offers enhanced functionality, so it might entice more people to buy the system.

 

[Joe211]

Last Remnant is one of the best games I've played in YEARS!!! More "B" titles, please. Here's hoping it gets ported to PS3 eventually - all you bitter single platform folk should definitely buy it. Don't hold a grudge.

Maybe you have bad taste?

I mean I played Chaos Legion on my ps2 and for me it was one of the best game on the machine

 

[distantmantra]

Last Remnant is one of the best games I've played in YEARS!!! More "B" titles, please. Here's hoping it gets ported to PS3 eventually - all you bitter single platform folk should definitely buy it. Don't hold a grudge.

I would buy Last Remnant for the PS3, but that would require SE to actually follow through on what they said and release it for the PS3.

 

[lunlunqq]

seeing how SE has given some love to every other platform except for PS3, i start to think it's probably not that other companies did something to pull SE away from Sony. It's probably Sony did something that seriously pissed off SE... who knows, probably a Sony rep accidentally run over Wada's dog or something...

 

[schuelma]

seeing how SE has given some love to every other platform except for PS3, i start to think it's probably not that other companies did something to pull SE away from Sony. It's probably Sony did something that seriously pissed off SE... who knows, probably a Sony rep accidentally run over Wada's dog or something...

FF13 exclusivity in Japan is worth more than whatever they've given the other two console platforms so far.

 

[MoogPaul]

FF13 exclusivity in Japan is worth more than whatever they've given the other two console platforms so far.

Dragon Quest thinks you are wrong.

 

[schuelma]

Dragon Quest thinks you are wrong.

I'm not going to count on Dragon Quest X Wii for now. I have a suspicion that slips into next generation.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Have to find it again. Nomara claimed he may be leaving S-E.

edit : nevermind, the source listed the news as a rumor.

Oh yeah I'd seen that rumor before around when "The Last Guy" launched, Kitase and Nomura leaving SE would be bad for SE.

 

[Link]

seeing how SE has given some love to every other platform except for PS3, i start to think it's probably not that other companies did something to pull SE away from Sony. It's probably Sony did something that seriously pissed off SE... who knows, probably a Sony rep accidentally run over Wada's dog or something...

I wouldn't consider what they've given the Wii love. More like pity sex with the promise of a possible proposal years from now.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I wouldn't consider what they've given the Wii love. More like pity sex with the promise of a possible proposal years from now.

I'd consider Dragon Quest X to be a pretty big ass proposal and of course we should not forget Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles which is shaping up to be something exciting.

 

[Link]

I'd consider Dragon Quest X to be a pretty big ass proposal and of course we should not forget Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles which is shaping up to be something exciting.

As schuelma said, DQX is still so far off that it might not even make this generation, especially if the Wii continues its downward trend. SE will be forced to take action at that point. Hell, even if they stick with the plan, by the time it releases, it's gonna mean shit all in terms of impact. Clearly, the announcement itself did nothing in terms of bolstering support.

Crystal Chronicles is almost a running gag at this point.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

As schuelma said, DQX is still so far off that it might not even make this generation, especially if the Wii continues its downward trend.

SE will be forced to take action at that point.

I could easily counter this ridiculous argument but the bolded-underlined in the quote above alone dispels your claim.

Hell, even if they stick with the plan, by the time it releases, it's gonna mean shit all in terms of impact.

Riiiiigggght....

Clearly, the announcement itself did nothing in terms of bolstering support.

And what press events have been held since the time of the announcement exactly?

Crystal Chronicles is almost a running gag at this point.

Do you even keep track of Wii games or do you just assume everything is shovelware and spells doom and gloom for the console? Because Crystal Chronicles definately is progressing and is coming along very nicely. I'm personally more interested in it then Final Fantasy XIII.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Using the strategies I mentioned.



Project Sylpheed: Nothing.
FFXI: Nothing.
IU: They co-published it.
SO4: The strategies I mentioned along with the bonus of having a tech base from IU.
FFXIII: The strategies I mentioned.

No fucking way for the bolded one. That's an obvious moneyhat if I've ever seen one, that's probably a moneyhat on top of the strategies you mentioned.

I have no doubt that MS has probably gotten some games based on the strategies you mentioned alone, but IMHO, most of them was a combination of a moneyhatted check and some incentives as that you outlined. Sony probably got MGS4 by a combination of both as well.

Unless you're an insider and KNOW for sure what goes behind the scenes, then we both have the same probability of being right.

 

[Link]

Riiiiigggght....

You're right. The support is going to swell to massive levels in 2012 when the game releases. Right at the peak of the generation!

And what press events have been held since the time of the announcement exactly?

Lack of press events don't stop publishers from announcing new games. Half of them have their own private events. Plus, new games get announced every week in Japan. I don't see it stopping titles for the HD consoles and the handhelds from being announced.

Well it seems that you don't keep in track with games.

Crystal Chronicles was announced 4 years ago and we've gotten little more than a trailer and some scant gameplay for it with mention that the game is still only 60% complete. I keep track enough, thanks.

 

[AranhaHunter]

As schuelma said, DQX is still so far off that it might not even make this generation, especially if the Wii continues its downward trend. SE will be forced to take action at that point. Hell, even if they stick with the plan, by the time it releases, it's gonna mean shit all in terms of impact. Clearly, the announcement itself did nothing in terms of bolstering support.

Crystal Chronicles is almost a running gag at this point.

What impact (if any) did DQVII and DQVIII had on PS1 and PS2 HW? Are we expecting DQIX to give the DS a big boost?

 

[kswiston]

If Wii Sports Resort were a simple follow-up to Wii Sports, I would say no. But Motion+ offers enhanced functionality, so it might entice more people to buy the system.

See, I think the opposite. If you haven't bought a Wii by now for reasons other than finances or shortages, why would motion+ be a game changer? Outside of Nintendo Franchises, one of the biggest selling points for the Wii is its motion controls. If people don't care about Nintendo franchises and don't give a damn about motion control, why would they get excited over more responsive motion controls?

Motion+ will help push Wii sports resort sales, but I expect it's effect on hardware sales to be proportionally small. There will be a bump, but I think it will be a lot closer to the Yakuza 3/RE5 bump that the PS3 received than it will be to the MHP2/2G bump that the PSP received.

EDIT: Basically, I think most of the excitement regarding motion+ comes from current Wii owners rather than potential future customers

 

[Rolf NB]

Crystal Chronicles coming around huh? I bought My Life As A King and the only thing it made me feel was that SE owes me a game.

 

[Link]

Crystal Chronicles coming around huh? I bought My Life As A King and the only thing it made me feel was that SE owes me a game.

Yeah, I think any real impact the game could have had by the time it's finally released has been ravaged by the way SE has handled the brand up to this point.

 

[botticus]

No fucking way for the bolded one. That's an obvious moneyhat if I've ever seen one, that's probably a moneyhat on top of the strategies you mentioned.

I have no doubt that MS has probably gotten some games based on the strategies you mentioned alone, but IMHO, most of them was a combination of a moneyhatted check and some incentives as that you outlined. Sony probably got MGS4 by a combination of both as well.

Unless you're an insider and KNOW for sure what goes behind the scenes, then we both have the same probability of being right.

Unless it in some way cost SE money to break exclusivity on the PS3, why would it have taken cash for MS to convince SE to go multiplatform? We are talking about a console that has double the install base of the PS3 in the US.

See, I think the opposite. If you haven't bought a Wii by now for reasons other than finances or shortages, why would motion+ be a game changer? Outside of Nintendo Franchises, one of the biggest selling points for the Wii is its motion controls. If people don't care about Nintendo franchises and don't give a damn about motion control, why would they get excited over more responsive motion controls?

Motion+ will help push Wii sports resort sales, but I expect it's effect on hardware sales to be proportionally small. There will be a bump, but I think it will be a lot closer to the Yakuza 3/RE5 bump that the PS3 received than it will be to the MHP2/2G bump that the PSP received.

We're not really saying different things. I don't think M+ will bring new life to the Wii by itself, but if it's supported, then it could offer new things to potential customers who as yet have not been enticed to buy a Wii. Whether this bump is large or small, short or extended, who knows.

 

[MoogPaul]

No fucking way for the bolded one. That's an obvious moneyhat if I've ever seen one, that's probably a moneyhat on top of the strategies you mentioned.

I have no doubt that MS has probably gotten some games based on the strategies you mentioned alone, but IMHO, most of them was a combination of a moneyhatted check and some incentives as that you outlined. Sony probably got MGS4 by a combination of both as well.

Unless you're an insider and KNOW for sure what goes behind the scenes, then we both have the same probability of being right.

You are right, it probably has nothing to do with the shear amount of money the company has poured into the game. two different engines, years upon years of development with no money coming in from the project, to release the game on one platform that is underperforming. Def. has nothing to do with trying to re-coop the costs of development.

My Nintendo 64 is playing the world's smallest violin for you people.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Crystal Chronicles was announced 4 years ago and we've gotten little more than a trailer and some scant gameplay for it with mention that the game is still only 60% complete. I keep track enough, thanks.

It was announced a little less than 3 years ago. The game was restarted from scratch, and it's now in the final stage of development. There's also been 2 trailers and a half dozen gameplay clips, as well as several Famitsu spreads recently.

I don't disagree with you that it's not a super huge deal as a game, but if you're going to be the saucy talk-sense-to-wiitards guy, at least get stuff right.

 

[Link]

It was announced a little less than 3 years ago. The game was restarted from scratch, and it's now in the final stage of development. There's also been 2 trailers and a half dozen gameplay clips, as well as several Famitsu spreads recently.

I don't disagree with you that it's not a super huge deal as a game, but if you're going to be the saucy talk-sense-to-wiitards guy, at least get stuff right.

My bad on the years. I meant to hit 3, but guess I hit 4 instead. E3 2005 wouldn't even make sense, so yeah.

Still though, that's quite a light showing for a game that's supposedly wrapping up development. The game still isn't even confirmed for this year at this point.

 

[Stumpokapow]

No fucking way for the bolded one. That's an obvious moneyhat if I've ever seen one, that's probably a moneyhat on top of the strategies you mentioned.

I have no doubt that MS has probably gotten some games based on the strategies you mentioned alone, but IMHO, most of them was a combination of a moneyhatted check and some incentives as that you outlined. Sony probably got MGS4 by a combination of both as well.

Then where is the income from moneyhatted cheques? Where did the money come from? How much were the cheques for?

The evidence for moneyhatting is just an appeal to incredulity. "There's no way this could happen!!!" is not evidence for anything or any explanation.

Unless you're an insider and KNOW for sure what goes behind the scenes, then we both have the same probability of being right.

MAYBE BILL GATES SLEPT WITH NOMURA

MAYBE THE EARTH WAS FORMED IN SEVEN DAYS AND CAVEMEN RODE ON DINOSAURS IF U WEREN'T DERE U DON'T KNOW.

Let's not be ridiculous; we can make logical deductions about whether things are plausible or not based on what we know, and while the evidence very heavily suggests all sorts of platform-holder incentives, it doesn't support writing jumbo cheques.

 

[Rolf NB]

Unless it in some way cost SE money to break exclusivity on the PS3, why would it have taken cash for MS to convince SE to go multiplatform? We are talking about a console that has double the install base of the PS3 in the US.

Multiplatform wat? They have done nothing on PS3 yet. How is that going multiplatform?

I also suggest looking up US sales of XBox 360 JRPGs. They don't sell enough to make up for losing most of the Japanese audience. Maybe that was once the hope, but a false hope it turned out to be.

 

[MoogPaul]

according to that recent interview, I'll have to find it, CC wasn't even in development when the first trailer was shown. They just made a few movies to show off.

 

[schuelma]

Still though, that's quite a light showing for a game that's supposedly wrapping up development. The game still isn't even confirmed for this year at this point.

There was a 2 minute trailer in January.

It has a worldwide teaser site that over two weeks delivered like 12 small gameplay vids.

It has had 2 Famitsu spreads and 2 Jump spreads in the last 2-3 weeks or so.

It's 60% complete, which means its more than likely coming this year.

What else do you want?

 

[AranhaHunter]

Unless it in some way cost SE money to break exclusivity on the PS3, why would it have taken cash for MS to convince SE to go multiplatform? We are talking about a console that has double the install base of the PS3 in the US.

Most contracts probably do cost money to be broken. It's a platform with 1/3 of the PS3 in Japan and even less than that when compared to Wii...

You are right, it probably has nothing to do with the shear amount of money the company has poured into the game. two different engines, years upon years of development with no money coming in from the project, to release the game on one platform that is underperforming. Def. has nothing to do with trying to re-coop the costs of development.

My Nintendo 64 is playing the world's smallest violin for you people.

Wouldn't it make more sense to recoup costs by releasing it on a platform where it has a higher install base? Or multiplatform? The one platform that underperformed the most in Japan is the 360 and that's where they are releasing most of their games (timed) exclusively and you're telling me it has only to do with incentives and not moneyhats?

You can believe whatever you want, but I feel pretty comfortable with my assumption.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

You're right. The support is going to swell to massive levels in 2012 when the game releases. Right at the peak of the generation!

Support only comes after the game is released? Not to mention 2012 release date? Where'd you get that? The fact that the game is announced for the Wii means that the game probably won't be as spaced out as its predecessors. And I claimed that with Dragon Quest X third parties will "swell to massive levels"? Not to mention it's NINTENDO's job to convince third parties to support the Wii.

Lack of press events don't stop publishers from announcing new games. Half of them have their own private events. Plus, new games get announced every week in Japan. I don't see it stopping titles for the HD consoles and the handhelds from being announced.

But the majority of high profile games get announced during press events and since Dragon Quest X there hasn't really been any. And besides "End of Eternity" there really hasn't been anything relevant announced from magazine from Famitsu on HD consoles from my memory and even then that games isn't that earth shattering.

Crystal Chronicles was announced 4 years ago and we've gotten little more than a trailer and some scant gameplay for it with mention that the game is still only 60% complete. I keep track enough, thanks.

This post really makes me think of the former.

Do you even keep track of Wii games or do you just assume everything is shovelware and spells doom and gloom for the console? Because Crystal Chronicles definitely is progressing and is coming along very nicely. I'm personally more interested in it then Final Fantasy XIII.

I don't disagree with you that it's not a super huge deal as a game, but if you're going to be the saucy talk-sense-to-wiitards guy, at least get stuff right.

So I'm a "wiitard" because I pointed out a few faults in his argument?

 

[Link]

There was a 2 minute trailer in January.

It has a worldwide teaser site that over two weeks delivered like 12 small gameplay vids.

It has had 2 Famitsu spreads and 2 Jump spreads in the last 2-3 weeks or so.

It's 60% complete, which means its more than likely coming this year.

What else do you want?

The game to be out, and support other than a series that seems to involve slapping a subtitle on a bunch of different games for brand recognition would be a nice start.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Then where is the income from moneyhatted cheques? Where did the money come from? How much were the cheques for?

The evidence for moneyhatting is just an appeal to incredulity. "There's no way this could happen!!!" is not evidence for anything or any explanation.

Okay tell me exactly how much the 360 has been profitable this generation (not the E&D division)? I mean you can tell EVERYTHING from their financial statements right?

MAYBE BILL GATES SLEPT WITH NOMURA

MAYBE THE EARTH WAS FORMED IN SEVEN DAYS AND CAVEMEN RODE ON DINOSAURS IF U WEREN'T DERE U DON'T KNOW.

No need to get childish

Let's not be ridiculous; we can make logical deductions about whether things are plausible or not based on what we know, and while the evidence very heavily suggests all sorts of platform-holder incentives, it doesn't support writing jumbo cheques.

You're right, we can make logical deductions, I'm making mine and you're making yours. I think evidence suggests both, you think otherwise, I can't prove one way, you can't prove the other way. I'm sure I won't convince you and vice versa, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[schuelma]

The game to be out, and support other than a series that seems to involve slapping a subtitle on a bunch of different games for brand recognition would be a nice start.

That seems to be a completely different argument.

 

[near]

Then where is the income from moneyhatted cheques?

I guess you're not familiar with the 'business entity concept'.

 

[Link]

That seems to be a completely different argument.

It's not. It's my original argument:

I wouldn't consider what they've given the Wii love. More like pity sex with the promise of a possible proposal years from now.

We just got sidetracked.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I also suggest looking up US sales of XBox 360 JRPGs. They don't sell enough to make up for losing most of the Japanese audience. Maybe that was once the hope, but a false hope it turned out to be.

To be fair, the PS2 had a massive gulf between Kingdom Hearts / FF... and everything else.

All numbers from NPD leaks on public sites (no special data here) as of January 2008:
KH > 3 million
FFX > 2.5 million
KH2 > 2 million
FFXII > 1.75 million

...

Star Ocean > 600k
DQ8 > 500k
Xenosaga 1 ~500k
.hack 1 ~400k

...

Everything else 250k or less, with stuff like Persona 3 at the top and even "hits" like Nocturne being 5 digits or low 6.

Without speculating on 360 LTDs, since we don't have numbers for those, LO did 200k month one which would put it pretty much squarely in that second category, which is where it should be relative to profile.

I don't know how anyone could have expected any of the currently released jRPGs on 360 to break more than the top non-KH/FF jRPGs on the PS2. Even Xenosaga and .hack crawled to those numbers (2k a month over ~100 months is 200k, for example)

I guess you're not familiar with the 'business entity concept'.

Are you suggesting executive to executive bribes?

(For those not familiar; business entity concept basically means the company is separate from its owners, business money is business money.)

 

[MoogPaul]

Wouldn't it make more sense to recoup costs by releasing it on a platform where it has a higher install base? Or multiplatform? The one platform that underperformed the most in Japan is the 360 and that's where they are releasing most of their games (timed) exclusively and you're telling me it has only to do with incentives and not moneyhats?

You can believe whatever you want, but I feel pretty comfortable with my assumption.

But you are still thinking of video game sales circa the mid 90's. Japan isn't the number one market any more. Fuck, it's not even second.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That seems to be a completely different argument.

Changing arguments mid-stream is kind of his thing.