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[Deku]

Regardles of any of this, Nintendo is getting more console support this generation than any time since the SNES days. It's all steps in the right direction. The only reason Nintendo fans arn't 100% satisfied with this is the fact that the Wii is so white-hot right now it just dosn't seem like enough.

Some people will never be satisfied. They want every major game on Nintendo platforms which is unrealistic. I think the market has matured to the point where no one company can achieve such dominance ever again.

 

[Evlar]

Right, exactly. I don't really understand why certain people agitate for moves like that, I don't think that'd be a good thing for the industry, and I don't think it'd be a good thing for Nintendo (because that kind of attitude, as we have seen, builds up an enormous amount of resentment, enmity, and fear from third parties which lessens their desire to cooperate with the company in the future).

Mmm-hmm. Console manufacturers shouldn't bully the third parties (except on the issue of game stability). If Capcom doesn't want to leap on the Wii gravy train that's their own responsibility.

Even with stuff like SE and FFXIII... I'm more worried about the future of SE than about bolstering the Wii's lineup. I don't want to see their most expensive project ever flop.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Hot Shots Golf Course, Vol. 1 - 2k

wait what?!

please tell me it will make the top 10

 

[Evlar]

Hot Shots Golf Course, Vol. 1 - 2k

wait what?!

please tell me it will make the top 10

It'll probably be in the PSP top ten.

 

[Cheesemeister]

It'll probably be in the PSP top ten.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

when does the PS3 version come out?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I think the market has matured to the point where no one company can achieve such dominance ever again.

Half a year ago I'd have agreed with this. Now with PS3 selling slower than GCN, Wii selling faster than PS2, and Xbox 360 being fairly flat over Xbox, it seems like it's headed the same way again.

 

[Wiitard]

when does the PS3 version come out?

In time for the funeral.

Mmm-hmm. Console manufacturers shouldn't bully the third parties (except on the issue of game stability). If Capcom doesn't want to leap on the Wii gravy train that's their own responsibility.

Even with stuff like SE and FFXIII... I'm more worried about the future of SE than about bolstering the Wii's lineup. I don't want to see their most expensive project ever flop.

But third parties should be bullied. And hard. By shareholders. I really think Sega need a takeover bid to focus their minds. They are waisting so many opportunities it's not even funny.

 

[Deku]

Half a year ago I'd have agreed with this. Now with PS3 selling slower than GCN, Wii selling faster than PS2, and Xbox 360 being fairly flat over Xbox, it seems like it's headed the same way again.

I don't subscribe to instant success of the PS3 in 2009 or whenever the next oracle predicts it will be but I think sales of the PS3 will improve. And the Japanese 3rd parties in question have a far stronger international orientation these days so they can look past week domestic installed base and target a game for the global markets cumulatively. Lost Remnant is a good example of what SE is trying to do to reach out.

But as I've said before insofar as FFXIII is concered, the bulk of the discussion has be on 'when it will go multiplatform' which I think is looking at the wrong thing. This is also true for pretty much all major PS3 titles. MGS4 et al. It is more instructive to observe and speculate on the aftermath of these games coming out and their actual sales performance. How the games perform and the publishers reaction will be instructive of where we are headed. In the case of the game underperforming the publisher's first order of business may well be to port it over to the 360, but they will also make new announcements about their next projects and it is unlikely they'll make the same kinds of mistakes again. If Wii is dominant globally the platform stands to see a lot of content it would otherwise not see. The 360 will also see new games as a means of spreading the cost of new PS3 titles --(after the hypothetical underperformance of a major 3rd party title)

At this point though many third parties are still hoping for a turnaround and they've invested too much to turn back anyways. It's one thing Sony has in their favour. They have a lock on several high profile games whose publishers are financially invested to see succeed and it is a good thing for the PS3. Like any market though, once expectations aren't met, the market will form new expectations and it is during this period where the most dramatic shift generally occurs.

Here's a recent example. The first big underperformer so far has been the Gundam Franchise on the PS3 and it's gone multiplatform for its NA release and NamBan has announced several new Gundam titles on Wii instead.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Mmm-hmm. Console manufacturers shouldn't bully the third parties (except on the issue of game stability). If Capcom doesn't want to leap on the Wii gravy train that's their own responsibility.

Even with stuff like SE and FFXIII... I'm more worried about the future of SE than about bolstering the Wii's lineup. I don't want to see their most expensive project ever flop.

It probably won't 'flop' ala Spirits Within but making considerably less profits for the effort and time put in is a definite possibility. It could also signal the decline of SE's significance in terms of JRPG brand power, especially if another enterprising company satisfies Wii owners(and 360 owners to some extent) overwhelmingly.

 

[Square2005]

Hey whatever happened to Gran Turismo 4 Mobile...?
Canceled?

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

Hey whatever happened to Gran Turismo 4 Mobile...?
Canceled?

DMC PSP doublepack.

 

[Wiitard]

I don't subscribe to instant success of the PS3 in 2009 or whenever the next oracle predicts it will be but I think sales of the PS3 will improve. And the Japanese 3rd parties in question have a far stronger international orientation these days so they can look past week domestic installed base and target a game for the global markets cumulatively. Lost Remnant is a good example of what SE is trying to do to reach out.

But as I've said before insofar as FFXIII is concered, the bulk of the discussion has be on 'when it will go multiplatform' which I think is looking at the wrong thing. This is also true for pretty much all major PS3 titles. MGS4 et al. It is more instructive to observe and speculate on the aftermath of these games coming out and their actual sales performance. How the games perform and the publishers reaction will be instructive of where we are headed. In the case of the game underperforming the publisher's first order of business may well be to port it over to the 360, but they will also make new announcements about their next projects and it is unlikely they'll make the same kinds of mistakes again. If Wii is dominant globally the platform stands to see a lot of content it would otherwise not see. The 360 will also see new games as a means of spreading the cost of new PS3 titles --(after the hypothetical underperformance of a major 3rd party title)

At this point though many third parties are still hoping for a turnaround and they've invested too much to turn back anyways. It's one thing Sony has in their favour. They have a lock on several high profile games whose publishers are financially invested to see succeed and it is a good thing for the PS3. Like any market though, once expectations aren't met, the market will form new expectations and it is during this period where the most dramatic shift generally occurs.

Here's a recent example. The first big underperformer so far has been the Gundam Franchise on the PS3 and it's gone multiplatform for its NA release and NamBan has announced several new Gundam titles on Wii instead.

I actually think both of you guys are wrong. For the purposes of this discussion it does not make sense to me separate consoles and handhelds. If you look at the control of gaming market as a whole it is pretty clear that Nintendo right now is close to becoming as powerful as Sony at the PS2 heyday and will probably get much more powerful in the next couple of years.

 

[Deku]

Nintendo has an advantage. If they lead Japan, they'll have control of both portables and console markets, with the mobile market outpacing the console market in terms of profitability and growth. This is something Sony obviously desired and planned for the PS3 with the PSP being the lead platform but its obviously been a huge disaster for them so far.

Nintendo will be able to achieve 80+ % share easily in terms of combined sales of Mobile/Console hardware in Japan, it's doing it right now. But globally, I think PS3 stands a good chance of carving out a nice slice and the 360 is obviously very entranced in North America. I don't think that will change. A 40-45% share for Wii globally would be tremendous, that would translate to a majority share in terms of combined hardware sales of mobile/consoles.

 

[Innotech]

I actually think both of you guys are wrong. For the purposes of this discussion it does not make sense to me separate consoles and handhelds. If you look at the control of gaming market as a whole it is pretty clear that Nintendo right now is close to becoming as powerful as Sony at the PS2 heyday and will probably get much more powerful in the next couple of years.

you also have to keep in mind nintendo is still patching up a decade of bad relations with developers. the wii certainly helps this repair in very great ways the way its selling, but they have to keep this up to gain developer trust again. I honestly dont see a ton of developers going exclusively HD if they really dont have to.

 

[Brofist]

Hey whatever happened to Gran Turismo 4 Mobile...?
Canceled?

Hopefully. They need to just concentrate on making sure the next PS3 version blows every other racing game away.

 

[Innotech]

Hopefully. They need to just concentrate on making sure the next PS3 version blows every other racing game away.

I highly doubt it. IMO Forza was a better game than GT4 for several reasons. damage being one. The cars not feeling like gokarts being the other. Its hard to explain, but Forza definitely felt more authentic to me.

 

[Vinnk]

you also have to keep in mind nintendo is still patching up a decade of bad relations with developers. the wii certainly helps this repair in very great ways the way its selling, but they have to keep this up to gain developer trust again. I honestly dont see a ton of developers going exclusively HD if they really dont have to.

I don't know how much "trust building" is required or if it is lasting in any way. Sony build tons of trust with the PS1 and PS2 and it gained them some initial great exclusives, but I don't know if trust will pull them through. They will put trust in the market.

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

I highly doubt it. IMO Forza was a better game than GT4 for several reasons. damage being one. The cars not feeling like gokarts being the other. Its hard to explain, but Forza definitely felt more authentic to me.

Don't the cars in GT follow predetermined paths? That might have something to do with it. It was either Forza 2 or PGR4 that was making a big stink a month or so back with this whole procedural AI thing.

 

[Wiitard]

Nintendo has an advantage. If they lead Japan, they'll have control of both portables and console markets, with the mobile market outpacing the console market in terms of profitability and growth. This is something Sony obviously desired and planned for the PS3 with the PSP being the lead platform but its obviously been a huge disaster for them so far.

Nintendo will be able to achieve 80+ % share easily in terms of combined sales of Mobile/Console hardware in Japan, it's doing it right now. But globally, I think PS3 stands a good chance of carving out a nice slice and the 360 is obviously very entranced in North America. I don't think that will change. A 40-45% share for Wii globally would be tremendous, that would translate to a majority share in terms of combined hardware sales of mobile/consoles.

OK, let's see what your scenario would mean. 40-45% for Wii globally means something like 30% outside Japan which is incredibly low, but let's stick with it.

On the portable front things are not looking up for PSP - now that sony is not longer king, the support is drying up even further (certainly in relative terms) and the relative position of the platfor will continue to deteriorate. So 80% of portable market seems a pretty reasonable estimate. If the portable market is 1/2 of console market we get Nintendo controlling some 60%. That of course with the incredibly low estimate of Wii share outside Japan. In fact in your scenario, Wii pretty much looses US and Europe (or is tied for the first place) or actually has a share in Japan significantly lower then 80%. If we look at a situation where Wii dominates Japan and win comfortably, but not overwhelmingly elsewhere, we would be looking at something like 55% of worldwide share which translates, together with portable to over 70% of the total market.

It's true that there are other platform - PC and phones and, more importantly, PS2 is still alive. But even taking that into account, it looks like overwhelming Nintendo dominance is pretty much inavoidable.

you also have to keep in mind nintendo is still patching up a decade of bad relations with developers. the wii certainly helps this repair in very great ways the way its selling, but they have to keep this up to gain developer trust again. I honestly dont see a ton of developers going exclusively HD if they really dont have to.

I see the situation in exactly the opposite light. THE DEVELOPERS now have to work to patch a decade of bad relations with Nintendo. As I pointed out, even fairly moderate success of Wii outside Japan makes then undisputed king.

 

[KINGMOKU]

It's not so much Nintendo policy as it is how frightening some of these posts that call for third party "obedience."

I assume this is directed at me, and you may have mis-understood me.

Looking at it from a pure business stand-point(I know, wait untll E3) if third-party devs just refuse to release the "big guns" on the Wii, Nintendo could hold the DS card over thier heads, in an attempt to sway business moves. That's why I said it could hurt them~pre-gamecube days.


As sp0rsk pointed out(Correctly I might add) already, Iwata will not run the company like the grand master of fear.


It was just pointing out an option of third-parties need to be nudged a little in the right direction.

In the end though, if the market keeps going at this pace, Nintendo wont need to nudge, as the market will force hold-outs to hop on board. I predicted months ago that this generation you could see some big third-parties go under, or lose immense stature becuase of short-sightedness, while other, samller third-parties could explode.

I still stand by that seeing the way things are going currently.

 

[cvxfreak]

I assume this is directed at me, and you may have mis-understood me.

Looking at it from a pure business stand-point(I know, wait untll E3) if third-party devs just refuse to release the "big guns" on the Wii, Nintendo could hold the DS card over thier heads, in an attempt to sway business moves. That's why I said it could hurt them~pre-gamecube days.


As sp0rsk pointed out(Correctly I might add) already, Iwata will not run the company like the grand master of fear.


It was just pointing out an option of third-parties need to be nudged a little in the right direction.

In the end though, if the market keeps going at this pace, Nintendo wont need to nudge, as the market will force hold-outs to hop on board. I predicted months ago that this generation you could see some big third-parties go under, or lose immense stature becuase of short-sightedness, while other, samller third-parties could explode.

I still stand by that seeing the way things are going currently.

I really don't have a problem with that and agree most with what you said. It's just the concept of obedience that I find kind of frightening.

Third parties don't need to be nudged by Nintendo. It's the market and their bottom line that'll do it. If the Wii were really all that, Nintendo won't need to use the DS against any publisher. Thankfully Iwata won't let that happen.

 

[apotema]

I highly doubt it. IMO Forza was a better game than GT4 for several reasons. damage being one. The cars not feeling like gokarts being the other. Its hard to explain, but Forza definitely felt more authentic to me.

I think GT4 had the best physics, and this time GTHD looks way better than Forza, I don't like the damaged models

 

[Wiitard]

I predicted months ago that this generation you could see some big third-parties go under, or lose immense stature becuase of short-sightedness, while other, samller third-parties could explode.

I still stand by that seeing the way things are going currently.

Western developers, as a group will suffer a lot unless the market grow so much that their fall will be cautioned. But as a whole, I feel the Japanese developers have a significant advantage in the new market despite significant individual blunders. Western devs are, on average, more about production values and polishing versions of virtually the same game till it shines. This is not that much in demand any more. Maybe by the end of the generation...

 

[TJ Spyke]

But third parties should be bullied. And hard. By shareholders. I really think Sega need a takeover bid to focus their minds. They are waisting so many opportunities it's not even funny.

This already happened, when Sammy purchased Sega a few years ago.

 

[Deku]

I really don't have a problem with that and agree most with what you said. It's just the concept of obedience that I find kind of frightening.

Third parties don't need to be nudged by Nintendo. It's the market and their bottom line that'll do it. If the Wii were really all that, Nintendo won't need to use the DS against any publisher. Thankfully Iwata won't let that happen.

Yeah I agree.

I don't see Iwata using the DS as a stick either. It is already giving them massive leverage in terms of public/developer mindshare and goodwill. It will be used as a carrot, if anything.

Naturally though it could lead to another attempt at connectivity, which (ironically) is something that Nintendo doesn't seem too keen on yet but the public actually wants. I guess not having to lug around a cable and the DSL's nice screens aren't so bad compared to the cables and the non back like GBA 1.0 models.

 

[Wiitard]

This already happened, when Sammy purchased Sega a few years ago.

I know. But seems that it needs a new pimp to beat some sense into it. And whoever made the decision of porting VT3 to PSP but not Wii need to be checked for brain tumor. If brain tumor is not found, time to face the squad.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Yeah I agree.

I don't see Iwata using the DS as a stick either. It is already giving them massive leverage in terms of public/developer mindshare and goodwill. It will be used as a carrot, if anything.

Naturally though it could lead to another attempt at connectivity, which (ironically) is something that Nintendo doesn't seem too keen on yet but the public actually wants. I guess not having to lug around a cable and the DSL's nice screens aren't so bad compared to the cables and the non back like GBA 1.0 models.

Know what? I would be ALL FOR DS/Wii connection now. It just was before its time with the GBA/GCN becuase the tech was junk. The wire wasnt even the worst part, it was the "cant see shit sir" screens. Wirseless, bright creens=worth a shit, and could be used in a really cool way becuase of the touch screen abilities. You could(Example here) be playing a first-person shooter, or exploration game, and you come to a door. To unlock it, you need the DS, and use the touch screen to pick the lock, put down your DS, then use the wii-mote to open the door.


Or perhaps to hotwire a car in GTA, or it could be used as your own video-phone in a GTA style of game while you play on your Wii. Or how about this?

During an online game on the Wii, the DS could be used as a quick item usage device. The ideas are endless. Hell, you could use it to play a Wii game in certain instances.


Now that the tech is there, some REALLY cool things could be utilized.

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

I really don't have a problem with that and agree most with what you said. It's just the concept of obedience that I find kind of frightening.

A desire for obedience is silly, but one for equal treatment is not. A lot of people use the "It's too soon! Give them a few more months!" excuse, and maybe it is, but if we're sitting here having the same discussion at the end of the year after E3 and TGS, with the only Wii offerings from major third-parties being neutered versions of other games, the outcry is going to get louder and more feverish.

 

[cvxfreak]

I think Pokemon Battle Revolution does connectivity nicely. It's a painless process and logically used.

 

[Wiitard]

Yeah I agree.

I don't see Iwata using the DS as a stick either. It is already giving them massive leverage in terms of public/developer mindshare and goodwill. It will be used as a carrot, if anything.

But what is the real difference in this case between using it as a carrot or a stick? Leveraging DS is leveraging DS it seems to me.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

When all the CAPCOM RE4-to-PS2 shite went down, I thought that it was basically over between Nintendo & CAPCOM. I thought CAPCOM would only throw a few bones our way, but I'm quite happy with what's been show so far: RE4, RE:UC, Treasure Island Z & Devil King's...and recently they've expressed that there's even more in store for Wii from them. So, considering the hi's & lo's of their GCN support, I'm happy and slightly surprized by what they've done so far.

Namco/Bandai has ton of support on the way that we don't even know about yet. Yeah, I'm sure this will be skipped over in alot of people's minds, but that Gundam Wii game looks bad-ass to me.

Sega/Sammy, hrmmm, NiGHTS was a surprize and certainly a treat...I'm sure there's more...and Sammy is actually not ignoring Nintendo this generation...when's the last time they've supported Nintendo, back in the Sammy USA NES days?

Konami has impressed me with Elebits and now with Dewey...I'd like more of that plus maybe something more serious, but I'm happy with what's coming so far.

Tecmo surprized the hell outta me by being one of the first 3RD parties to commit to Wii, then there was the Rygar announcement...and now Itagaki has expressed interest...such a turn around from the GCN era.

Square/Enix, we all know the story.

On the Japanese end I think Nintendo's got things covered and while I want more, I know it'll come with time as long as Wii continue's to sell well. I am not dissappointed by any means, and no other Wii/Nintendo fan should be either!

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Damn...forgot Koei, they say they've got stuff in store...hopefully a new WinBack?

 

[Wiitard]

On the Japanese end I think Nintendo's got things covered and while I want more, I know it'll come with time as long as Wii continue's to sell well. I am not dissappointed by any means, and no other Wii/Nintendo fan should be either!

The fact that it is possible that by the end of 07 there may not be a single third party boxing or tennis games released in the US blows my mind and is driving me nuts. But overall level of support is not bad.

 

[SouthernDragon]

This whole "3rd parties better deliver" doesn't bother me at the moment. Before Christmas '07 I'll be looking to own around 9 Wii games. For me, that's a lot, considering I only had enough money to get around 9 or 10 for the Gamecube during its lifespan.
Thing is, after '07 is when I expect 3rd party games to hit, and good ones to boot. A fighter, an adventurer, a platformer, a JRPG, an SRPG, and more. If there's nothing...

Well, I can certainly use and abuse those multiplayers and fully complete the 1 player games, but I'll be disappointed that nothing's on the horizon.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

But what is the real difference in this case between using it as a carrot or a stick? Leveraging DS is leveraging DS it seems to me.

As a stick: "You can't release DS games unless you release Wii games."
As a carrot: "Isn't releasing DS games with us friendly and profitable? So would it be on Wii."

 

[Haunted]

Oh, I like that one.

 

[Wiitard]

As a stick: "You can't release DS games unless you release Wii games."
As a carrot: "Isn't releasing DS games with us friendly and profitable? So would it be on Wii."

This is not a carrot. This is cheap talk/patronizing/persuasion/whatever. It does not add any incentives.

 

[Zoe]

yeah i guess its bad but its just a gps add on which is completely useless, cant see anyone buying it

I could see younger golfers buying it, but if Japanese courses are anything like American ones, the good courses will have in-cart GPS anyway.

And because there is only a limited number of courses available, I would imagine that it's more likely the courses will buy copies of the game and rent them out to the players.

 

[Stumpokapow]

As a stick: "You can't release DS games unless you release Wii games."
As a carrot: "Isn't releasing DS games with us friendly and profitable? So would it be on Wii."

No, that's not right.

As a stick: "You can't release DS games unless you release Wii games."
As a carrot: "We'll waive 50% of your DS publication fees if you release Wii games."

 

[Deku]

I mentioned connectively specifically when I noted the stick/carrot analogy.
But I also noted Nintendo has to do very little other than be welcoming and offer good terms to third parties. The success of the DS AND Wii is doing a lot of the work for them in attracting the attention of developers and publishers.

 

[Vinnk]

And I suppose being in good graces with Nintendo could put them on the list of first companies to get dev kits for whatever follows the DS and Wii. That is worth it's weight in gold.

Unless or course Nintendo screws it up buy releasing a Wii2 with a $600 price tag.

 

[Chris Michael]

Namco/Bandai has ton of support on the way that we don't even know about yet. Yeah, I'm sure this will be skipped over in alot of people's minds, but that Gundam Wii game looks bad-ass to me.

Please. Namco as shunned Nintendo. SHUNNED. I expect the PSP whoring to continue.

Literally, the ONLY big Namco game over the horizon for ANY Nintendo system is SCLegends... AND IT'S A BLOODY SPINOFF.

Konami has impressed me with Elebits and now with Dewey...I'd like more of that plus maybe something more serious, but I'm happy with what's coming so far.

I expect Konami to continue with the Super Happy Game for Babies trend on Nintendo systems, while PS3 and PSP get games like Castlevania (WITHOUT shitty animu artz), MGS, and Silent Hill.

Not quite sure third parties aren't supporting the DS more than they are (with the exception of SE, of course). In a strange turn of events, PSP has been getting a crazy amount of big game announcements, even from SE. I guess Sony wins either way.

 

[mj1108]

I expect Konami to continue with the Super Happy Game for Babies trend on Nintendo systems, while PS3 and PSP get games like Castlevania (WITHOUT shitty animu artz), MGS, and Silent Hill.

You've never played Elebits, have you? You're one of the ignorant asses who sits there and judges games based on either how dark/gritty it is or the letter rating on the box. Ignorant asshole.

Troll much?

"Super Happy Game for Babies". Grow the **** up.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I expect Konami to continue with the Super Happy Game for Babies trend on Nintendo systems, while PS3 and PSP get games like Castlevania (WITHOUT shitty animu artz), MGS, and Silent Hill.

Androgenous Pretty Boys > Crappy Anime Art

According to your opinion.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

You've never played Elebits, have you? You're one of the ignorant asses who sits there and judges games based on either how dark/gritty it is or the letter rating on the box. Ignorant asshole.

Troll much?

"Super Happy Game for Babies". Grow the **** up.

You think those Elebits cutscenes are targeted at a demographic other than young children?

 

[Terrell]

You think those Elebits cutscenes are targeted at a demographic other than young children?

No, I think his point was that people need to stop being image-obsessed and just stuff the "baby" and "kiddie" bull**** already, unless you all want the whole gaming industry to be Bomberman: Act Zero'd.

 

[Innotech]

No, I think his point was that people need to stop being image-obsessed and just stuff the "baby" and "kiddie" bull**** already, unless you all want the whole gaming industry to be Bomberman: Act Zero'd.

Good lord no. I enjoyed elebits cutscenes. Well as much as I enjoy cutscenes, which is only long enough to see the artwork before I skip past it.

 

[Chris Michael]

No, I think his point was that people need to stop being image-obsessed and just stuff the "baby" and "kiddie" bull**** already, unless you all want the whole gaming industry to be Bomberman: Act Zero'd.

I just want less of this

and more of this

 

[JavyOO7]

Elebits was ****ing awesome.

Yeah, a tad bit too cutesy, but who cares. Game needs a sequel!