BishopLamont
Banned
Uh the PSP ain't going to catch up to the DS in LTD.Mithos Yggdrasill said:
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Media Create Sales: 7/21 - 7/27
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
JoshuaJSlone
Member
You quoted my lists earlier, but this seems to go against it. In the time since PSP hardware started doing much better, there's been one PSP million seller. DS has had three and DQ V is well on its way. That's two million sellers from Nintendo itself, and two from DQ IX's publisher/series that have done much better than anything they've released on PSP.Mithos Yggdrasill said:
Being a fairly big change from the original and released 1.5 years later, I wouldn't consider it a good pair to count as a single game. It's not a Diamond/Pearl situation, or a budget rerelease situation.Kaworu said:
Psychotext
Member
I just did a very quick calc and as far as I can tell the DS sold around 4.5m in the last year and the PSP sold around 4mFady K said:
I'm sure one of the high level stats geeks will be along shortly to tell me I'm utterly wrong though. :lol
JoshuaJSlone
Member
OK, I set up a DS/PSP comparison image. Using the same scale as the weekly top 30 bar chart, and the mid-2008 top 100 chart, I put together all DS and PSP releases since 2007-09-13, in order of release, with sales through the latest Famitsu week of 2008-07-14. DS games are gray, PSP games black.
http://garaph.info/static/barchartdspsppostcrisis.png
http://garaph.info/static/barchartdspsppostcrisis.png
In short PSP went from being behind DS, to being ahead a few weeks with Slim, to being way behind again for the holidays, to being at its present levels for most of this year. On the whole since Slim, DS has lost about 300K of its lead.Psychotext said:
Psychotext
Member
Based on that it looks like I had my numbers backwards. 
Psychotext said:
I think that might be right counting 1 calendar year back from today, in that the DS (and Wii's) sales boost during the holidays, which was in the magnitude of the hundreds of thousands, might have outstripped any gains PSP had made after the introduction of PSP slim. But since the beginning of the year the PSP has been consistently outselling the DS, though the order of magnitude (by about 10-30K per week?) isn't really anything to write home about. EDIT: nevermind, see above.
I thought the Square event announcements (Parasite Eve, AgitoXIII, etc. to PSP) were interesting and made good business sense, if the impressions that they're based on the FVII:CC engine are true. Smart way for Square to get more mileage out of FFVII:CC's development costs. It did seem to indicate that the PSP's popularity could potentially cannibalize development away from the PS3, though (in that there's yet another popular platform to put franchise games on), just as the PS2 has.
I am interested in where Nintendo is going to take the DS. If all Nintendo cared about was bragging rights for outselling the PSP, it seems it would have been easy enough to introduce some new colors and a price drop (just as PSP has been introducing new colors pretty consistently), but they seem to be foregoing that and looking ahead. All those speeches about increasing DS functionality in public spaces, etc. - guess it must be a longer term goal, and they're willing to let DS sales play themselves out for a bit before they make any moves.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Psychotext said:Based on that it looks like I had my numbers backwards.
Yeah, if we go back a full calendar year things flip, and it's about 300K in DS's advantage.jgwhiteus said:
Psychotext
Member
Ahh... ok, I'm not completely mad then. :lol
RpgN
Junior Member
BishopLamont said:
The psp is outselling the ds for months...
I said this before, but I'll say it again. This generation there is no clear console/handheld leader with all the best games. The gaming market has been cruel to some gaming developers thanks to the shift in software, but also a clear growth in hardware. The psp and ds are different enough with exclusive games they can count on. They are both profitable and can co-exist in the market.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
RpgN said:
and at the rate it's doing so, i'll have grandkids when it passes the DS.
Do you believe the shit you just wrote? DS has twice the userbase of the PSP. If you are implying the market leader has the best games, all of them, you're so deadly wrong. Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, Halo or Ninja Gaiden never hit the PS2, yet were some of the finest games of last generation. Are you doubting the PS2 was king or what?RpgN said:
RpgN said:
The 300K(?) lead the PSP has gained over the past few months isn't enough to erase the 10M+ lead the DS gained over the past three years in Japan. And while the PSP games that show up on the charts are getting consistently "better" sales, they're still pretty modest successes in the grand scheme of things (besides MHP2) - to say nothing of the number of titles that chart comparatively for both systems. Finally, while this topic is focused on Japan, software development takes place all over - and the DS's lead is widening pretty significantly in the US and Europe still - for example, the 400-500K(?) by which the DS outsold the PSP in the US last month is more than enough to make up for the 50K-ish or so the PSP outsells the DS per month in Japan - same for Europe, where it's supposed to be selling around 800K / month?
So in terms of a sales leader, I think the DS is still pretty much the king of this gen (of all systems, consoles included), and will remain so for a while. If you're talking about subjective quality of games, well, that's always debatable, but I do agree with you that both DS and PSP can co-exist in the market, and the platforms are different enough that they'll get different types of games and publishers can find success on both.
milanbaros
Member?
The PSP is doing really well in Japan but the DS is still selling very well.
Should Nintendo do something to counter act the turn around there? One option would be a DS remodel but when it comes down to it Japan just isn't that important anymore. In Q1 Japanese sales made up a total of 11.1% of Nintendo's total sales.
I think the DS hardware sales peaked in FY 2008 with 30m sales but they plan on shipping 28m this year. Even if sales dropped off quite a bit in FY 2010 it would still be a monster.
Should Nintendo do something to counter act the turn around there? One option would be a DS remodel but when it comes down to it Japan just isn't that important anymore. In Q1 Japanese sales made up a total of 11.1% of Nintendo's total sales.
I think the DS hardware sales peaked in FY 2008 with 30m sales but they plan on shipping 28m this year. Even if sales dropped off quite a bit in FY 2010 it would still be a monster.
ShockingAlberto
Member
This sounds more like wishing than analysis.RpgN said:
BishopLamont
Banned
Why does the LTD not matter yet the "PSP has been kicking the DS' ass" does?Fady K said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
milanbaros said:
Another option would be giving the DS a price drop to the price that it launched at in 2004.
Zoe
Member
BishopLamont said:
I'm not gonna claim LTD doesn't matter, but I do think current numbers hold more weight. How many of those DS's and PSP's sold years ago are still in active use? I would expect a person who is buying the hardware right now is more likely to buy the software right now.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Zoe said:
Yep!
I mean, if this wasn't true we would still be seeing the DS dominating the software charts instead of all those different PSP games taking all the spots...
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
schuelma said:
Why not? Right now the PSP is the Raffael Nadal of the handheld market. The DS is Roger Federer.
And even if DS has a giant lead, I don't se why a combination PSP + DS would not be explosive. Of course a PSP-only choice is a nonsense.
JoshuaJSlone said:
So, PSP's success is, numbers on hand, much more an impression due to hardware's numbers and some decent sales of PSP PSP and Gundam. Is this your point?
Zoe said:
opening post
PSP - 6
3. [PSP] Gundam Battle Universe (Namco Bandai Games) - 42,860 / 180,000
4. [PSP] Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki the 3rd (Falcom) - 38,805 / NEW
15. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2 G (Capcom)
22. [PSP] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu Portable 3 (Konami)
41. [PSP] Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus (Arc System Works)
46. [PSP] God of War: Chains of Olympus (Capcom)
NDS - 21
1. [NDS] Dragon Quest V (Square Enix) - 190,438 / 834,000
6. [NDS] Katekyoo Hitman Reborn! DS Flame Rumble Hyper - Moeyo Mirai (Takara Tomy) - 31,546 / NEW
11. [NDS] Daigasso! Band Brothers DX (Nintendo)
13. [NDS] Kirarin * Revolution: Minna de Odorou Furi Furi Debut! (Konami)
14. [NDS] Densetsu no Stafi: Taiketsu! Dire Kaizokudan (Nintendo)
16. [NDS] Beautiful Letter Training DS (Nintendo)
19. [NDS] Derby Stallion DS (Enterbrain)
24. [NDS] Taiko Drum Master 2 (Namco Bandai Games)
27. [NDS] Twilight Syndrome: Kinjiratera Toshi Densetsu (Forbidden Urban Legend) (Spike)
28. [NDS] Pokemon Diamond (Nintendo/Pokemon Co.)
30. [NDS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
31. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo)
35. [NDS] Pokemon Pearl (Nintendo/Pokemon Co.)
36. [NDS] Bokura wa Kaseki Holder (We are Fossil Diggers) (Nintendo)
39. [NDS] Hanayori Danshi: Koi Seyo Onago (Boys Over Flowers: A Girl in Love) (Konami)
40. [NDS] Tottadoo! Yoiko's Deserted Island Life (Namco Bandai Games)
42. [NDS] Pokemon Ranger: Batonnage (Nintendo/Pokemon Co.)
43. [NDS] Gegege no Kitarou: Youkai Daigekisen (Namco Bandai Games)
45. [NDS] Animal Crossing: Wild World (Nintendo)
48. [NDS] Pet Shop Monogatari DS (Taito)
50. [NDS] Custom Beat Battle: Draglade 2 (Namco Bandai Games)
RpgN
Junior Member
fresquito said:
Here we go again.
Do you remember the ps2 and GBA? Do you remember how much the ps2 sold vs the gamecube? = 22m vs 4m The gamecube sold only 1 week more than the ps2 and that's it. I have a gamecube and know how great these games are. And I also own an xbox. All the games you listed are first party or funded. I meant the system gets all the third party support. The ps2 was dominant in that field. Let's not even talk about the success of the gba.
Exist last gen and look at now. DS vs Psp with 23 vs 10 and there is still chance for growth with both of them. The psp has its own exclusive third party support worth the money. Can you see the difference now?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
My point is that though PSP has had one REALLY big game in MHP2G, it's not like its software in general has started to take off while other platforms have failed to keep up. In the 10 months since Slim's release, DS and Wii have each gained more million sellers than PSP has in the 43 months since it launched.Mithos Yggdrasill said:
Not that number of million sellers is the sole measure of success, but having one is the most notable thing about PSP's software performance in the last half year.
RpgN
Junior Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
Yes, it does look weird. If we look at the games released, the ds kind of have released its guns early. Now you can see a slow release in well known nintendo games. SE games with DQ games are able to keep the flow. It's a reverse situation with the psp, high budget games were too far and few. Now they are starting to get announced or released. Psp small budget games selling 200k is considered a success. Some people buy the psp for multimedia capabilities as well. Handheld games didn't have that before, so we can't compare the situation clearly.
charlequin
Banned
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
This meme is really, really unfounded. I'm going to break this down here so I have something to link every time people talk about this.
Why do games go multiplatform?
One simple word: sales. If the cost of porting a game is low and the added sales produced by the port are high, the company makes money.
What makes port costs low?
Being able to share assets between two versions. Similar hardware architectures. Working with a multiplatform engine and toolchain from early on so that porting work is minimized.
What makes port sales high?
Primarily, different sets of people owning the two systems: the ability to create a larger virtual userbase than either system has on its own.
How do 360 and PS3 fit into this equation?
Their hardware isn't that similar, but there are a lot of engines that are built to develop between them -- Capcom and Square-Enix both have them in-house, and most Western companies have or have access to one. Their power is very, very similar in practice, so you can use the exact same assets and only have to worry about storage space/loading time issues. They both have userbases with similar tastes but don't overlap too much, because many people realize that you can play most HD games on either system and don't necessarily need to buy both.
If you are developing an HD game, releasing it multiplatform can produce a very positive effect because you are essentially selling to the "HD" installed base, which overlaps very little between the two systems.
How do DS and PSP fit into this equation?
Very poorly. Both systems have capabilities that the other does not: the PSP has drastically superior graphics, the DS has a unique input method. Any game designed to be released on both and use the same assets will be the worst of both worlds, DS graphics (which PSP users are unlikely to accept) with no integral touchscreen controls. If instead you create separate assets for both, the cost benefits of porting disappear because you're basically making two different games.
Meanwhile, the virtual userbase effect is drastically muted. The DS is such a ludicrous success in Japan that pretty much every single person who games owns at least one. The PSP is now very popular in its own right, but there isn't a vast market of PSP-only owners who are holding out on buying DS software -- certainly there isn't such a market of Dragon Quest fans who only own a PSP, because even if they hadn't bought one for any of the system's other games, the four DQ games released to date probably would have driven them to do so. In other words, porting to PSP is a lot of cost for very little benefit.
The correct strategy for taking advantage of PSP's resurgence in Japan is to release exclusive titles for each system that take advantage of its unique qualities in order to compel the existing userbase to buy (and, in PSP's case, to carefully target the teen boy market that made MHP and FF7CC so successful.) And, unsurprisingly enough, this is exactly what Square-Enix is doing -- releasing a variety of exclusive titles for each handheld system that are built around that system's current userbase's desires and its unique hardware capabilities.
charlequin
Banned
Link316 said:
Oh, lordy. This thread isn't even about US sales, but... let's just say that the DS is going to go way the fuck past 40M before it's done in the US, and leave it at that.
JoshuaJSlone said:
Right. It's more like PSP software sales have moved towards being decent enough for certain titles from being poor. (I think there's still a lot of potential for games that hit the right market on the PSP, but it's definitely not a runaway success game-wise, just a potentially viable platform.)
AniHawk said:
I'm not saying this will happen, but I wouldn't disbelieve you if you came from three years in the future and said that it did.
RpgN
Junior Member
C.T. said:
Watch closely. Great games doesn't mean anything. High budget and with good marketing does. Nintendo released all the marios, zelda, brain training, animal crossing etc. and left the rest to third party with SE in the lead.
The psp had MH games, MGS PO, FFVIICC and GTA games. Others, while some really good, were small games compared to them in budget and brand. Though MH games were a big surprise, since they are port and all.
It's not a an attempt for turnaround from me, but just noticing what has happened. It doesn't mean the ds is suddenly dead. It has survived with the lack of nintendo support lately. However there is a shift from 2005-2006 and 2008.
I find it so annoying to see nintendo fans attacking every comment that isn't amazing about the ds.
Who said the PSP is not worth it? You said this genmeration has no clear winner, and sure it does. The PSP is the underdog, and just like any underdog before, it has its share of good titles and reasons why it's worth it. But saying this generation has no clear winner just yet is bullshit and denial.RpgN said:
RpgN
Junior Member
fresquito said:
I think you need to start and read better before giving any comments. It seems you're the one who is in denial. Compare the data from past consoles/handhels with each other. The ds has achieved amazing sales and the psp is selling great too. That's all I'll say.
I dont see the DS improving much on its hardware sales
The damn thing already sold comparable numbers to PS2, PSone, GBA or SNES
the only way to improve the sales would be a hefty price cut... not really necessary at this point..
Plus they have software sales supremacy... over 50% of the sales are happening on the DS and thats where the money is being made
The damn thing already sold comparable numbers to PS2, PSone, GBA or SNES
the only way to improve the sales would be a hefty price cut... not really necessary at this point..
Plus they have software sales supremacy... over 50% of the sales are happening on the DS and thats where the money is being made
RpgN said:
I own both systems. It just seems strange some are calling it "ass kicking" with merely 10-20k more units sold per week. Software really sells better, at least the gundams and known IPs and I hope we se more RPGs. But DQ going to PSP? I wouldn't mind a DQ for PSP, but all the games went to DS and with DS lead a DQ for PSP is highly unlikely.
Sage00 said:
The PSP is not primarily selling because of its UMD games.
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
See the previous response. PSP's LTD tie ratio has, at best, stayed constant since Slim's release but seems to have actually dropped a little.
Fady K said:
It's not a win-win for publishers who need to sell physical copies of their games in stores.
RpgN said:
There wasn't last generation (or any other generation), either.
Zoe said:
See the comment on PSP above. For a system sold primarily for store-bought games, you'd be correct.