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[Nirolak]

I think the big part the industry in Japan was missing is that there is no single hardcore audience, they have to (re)build them every gen there.

I think the Valkyria interview that just happened is one of my favorite examples of that.

In 2008, Valkyria Chronicles 1 released. Between the base game and the budget re-release, it sold 141,589 + 95,667 = 237,256 copies.

In 2011, Valkyria Chronicles 3 released, and sold 152,659 copies, which was at least still up from the initial release of Valkyria Chronicles 1.

Now, in 2016: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1270939

GAMER: Speaking of which, the Valkyria series is ridiculously popular overseas, isn't it?

Ozawa: A surprising thing about that... when we revealed the first YouTube trailer for Azure Revolution in November last year, all of the comments on the video were in English! (Laughs) We had each line translated for us, one by one.

It's not surprising to me that there were English comments on the Japanese trailer, because it's a popular series overseas. However, what's really striking here is that there were zero comments in Japanese.

Valkyria Chronicles released in 2008 and then had a re-release on PC in 2014 that was clearly driven by everyone remembering positive word of mouth about the PS3 game. Since the PSP was a non-entity by the time of Valkyria Chronicles 2, this is a series that largely started and stopped in 2008 overseas. However, its Western popularity was enduring since the people playing games in 2008 are still playing games like this today. In Japan, it feels like they're basically having to launch a new IP only five years later, which makes the amount of changes they're making make a lot more sense in context.

 

[MacTag]

True. I think NX is going to be at a significant disadvantage compared to 3DS because of hardware capability.

3DS games could be developed quicker and cheaper than NX will be and it was a lot easier then for someone like Koei to make an exclusive Musou or Dead or Alive. Whatever NX gets early in its life is likely mostly dependent on what's already in production on other systems and can afford to work on another Sku. That's essentially the issue Wii U and PS4 had.

I'm not sure what teams are actually in a good space to have been developing for NX exclusives(if they exist). It would have to be developers who haven't shipped a product in the last year or two and I'm not sure who that would be off the top of my head.

I think Wii U's issue was more a lack of confidence. We got some launch window ports from some of the big Japanese publishers and basically no follow up when those games underperformed. Similarly bombing efforts on PS4 didn't yield the same results though since there's some interest in healthy overseas markets and Sony pushed an ecosystem approach to development with PS3/Vita to help cushion domestic risk. PS4's nearing the point where it really needs to start proving itself though as the ecosystem shifts from PS3/4/Vita to PS4/Neo/VR.

If NX can grab more crossgen multiplatform support, be it upgraded 3DS ports or downgraded PS4 ports, it should be fine early on. 1st party can drive userbase enough to hopefully arrive at a different outcome than we saw with PS4 or Wii U. Provided Nintendo really does have a compelling and consistent year one lineup themselves at least, if they pull another Wii U or even 3DS they're done for. They really need a Wii like lineup with around a game a month.

 

[Datschge]

This is the only thing that remains at the forefront for me in this current discussion.

I say just make almost everything multiplat and call it a day.

One would think they could do that with an eye on increasing the domestic console market size (considering there are plenty IPs that repeatedly sell best on home consoles). Instead after not doing multiplat at all for so long, it's now either Vita + PS4 for the local market or PS4 + Steam for the international one (in both cases a dead end, Vita is lol, and Steam support essentially non-existent in Japan itself).

It's not surprising to me that there were English comments on the Japanese trailer, because it's a popular series overseas. However, what's really striking here is that there were zero comments in Japanese. (...) In Japan, it feels like they're basically having to launch a new IP only five years later, which makes the amount of changes they're making make a lot more sense in context.

The most interesting part about their responses is that they claim to be surprised about it. My impression of Japanese game fandom is that series have to either target Otaku or have timeless quality, both coupled with at least semi regular releases to not be forgotten. Now the issue is that traditionally Japanese game developers still nearly always target the Shonen audience. Valkyria Chronicles is an excellent example where the first entry wasn't blatant with it (which tremendously helped its international appeal), but it became more focused in the subsequent entries. The series essentially proceeded in a way that more or less specifically excluded older players as target audience. So at the time of VC3 the audience was no longer a varied mainstream one as found on a mainstream system but a specific niche one that needs to be specifically nurtured to not lose it. Naturally that audience dissipated into nothingness after 5 years of no further development.

 

[barybll]

Is there any home console franchise that is in a growth trend in japan?

All these declining numbers make me depressed, I see my favorite game market having a slow burn death due to mobile (and yes, I really mean that mobile games, as they are now, arent a substitute for what was lost)

 

[Nirolak]

I think I forgot to ever post this information here: http://www.serkantoto.com/2016/08/17/japans-mobile-game-market-size/

Japan's smartphone market is currently the largest in the world. It's growing slower, but:

2012: US$2.5 billion
2013: US$5.5 billion
2014: US$8.9 billion
2015: US$9.5 billion

The breakdown between iOS/Android is also 50.3% iOS and 49.7% Android in terms of revenue, though keep in mind that's not necessarily true for individual games. As an example of that, 30.5% of game revenue on iOS is from RPGs, but it's up at 37.3% on Android.

By comparison, the US is rated at $8.6 billion and China at $3.7 billion.

On a similar note, Pokemon Go debuted at #4 in the top grossing chart for July despite launching on the 21st: https://www.appannie.com/indexes/all-stores/rank/overall/?month=2016-07-01&country=JP

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Is there any home console franchise that is in a growth trend in japan?

All these declining numbers make me depressed, I see my favorite game market having a slow burn death due to mobile (and yes, I really mean that mobile games, as they are now, arent a substitute for what was lost)

Persona 5

 

[casiopao]

I really disagree with the idea that third parties were late to cross-gen PS3/PS4 games. Sony seemed to deliberately make sure that was a thing ASAP. Compare that transition to PSP -> Vita, where the former was getting notable exclusive content well after the latter had launched. What was the last notable PS3-only game in Japan? Zestiria?

Did not PSP to Vita is totally different beast problem especially when we know that Sony themselves is killing Vita by themselves to make sure that PS4 will get many of those Vita game.(Gravity Rush 2)

 

[Oregano]

Been at work so got a few things to reply to:

QUOTE=DriftingSpirit;215334318]This is the only thing that remains at the forefront for me in this current discussion.

I say just make almost everything multiplat and call it a day.[/QUOTE]

The best thing for the domestic market would probably be for all the biggest franchises to be on one platform. The problem with that is that half of those franchises are Nintendo's and a bunch of the others are western focused and focused on Sony platforms.

The difficulties today are a result of the Wii and DS dominating the market without needing those traditional big franchises.

If rumours are true NX will do a lot to bridge that gap(on paper anyway) but there's obviously still going to be irreconcilable differences.

I really disagree with the idea that third parties were late to cross-gen PS3/PS4 games. Sony seemed to deliberately make sure that was a thing ASAP. Compare that transition to PSP -> Vita, where the former was getting notable exclusive content well after the latter had launched. What was the last notable PS3-only game in Japan? Zestiria?

You have a point but I think the issue is that third parties in general have fuck all to offer nowadays. Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil and Final Fantasy are the three biggest console franchises and the latter two are only releasing on PS4 in the next few months.

I think the Valkyria interview that just happened is one of my favorite examples of that.

In 2008, Valkyria Chronicles 1 released. Between the base game and the budget re-release, it sold 141,589 + 95,667 = 237,256 copies.

In 2011, Valkyria Chronicles 3 released, and sold 152,659 copies, which was at least still up from the initial release of Valkyria Chronicles 1.

Now, in 2016: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1270939



It's not surprising to me that there were English comments on the Japanese trailer, because it's a popular series overseas. However, what's really striking here is that there were zero comments in Japanese.

Valkyria Chronicles released in 2008 and then had a re-release on PC in 2014 that was clearly driven by everyone remembering positive word of mouth about the PS3 game. Since the PSP was a non-entity by the time of Valkyria Chronicles 2, this is a series that largely started and stopped in 2008 overseas. However, its Western popularity was enduring since the people playing games in 2008 are still playing games like this today. In Japan, it feels like they're basically having to launch a new IP only five years later, which makes the amount of changes they're making make a lot more sense in context.

I wonder if VC fans in Japan had their itch scratched by stuff like Chain Chronicle in the intervening years and thus don't have a particular attachment.

Although thinking about that has there ever been a series that has just picked up where it left off after a few year hiatus? How did Pikmin 3 do compared to the first two?

I think Wii U's issue was more a lack of confidence. We got some launch window ports from some of the big Japanese publishers and basically no follow up when those games underperformed. Similarly bombing efforts on PS4 didn't yield the same results though since there's some interest in healthy overseas markets and Sony pushed an ecosystem approach to development with PS3/Vita to help cushion domestic risk. PS4's nearing the point where it really needs to start proving itself though as the ecosystem shifts from PS3/4/Vita to PS4/Neo/VR.

If NX can grab more crossgen multiplatform support, be it upgraded 3DS ports or downgraded PS4 ports, it should be fine early on. 1st party can drive userbase enough to hopefully arrive at a different outcome than we saw with PS4 or Wii U. Provided Nintendo really does have a compelling and consistent year one lineup themselves at least, if they pull another Wii U or even 3DS they're done for. They really need a Wii like lineup with around a game a month.

Yes, the big factor NX has in its favour over the past few systems should be a truly killer first party lineup. It remains to be seen if Nintendo will actually deliver though.

...and of course Nintendo first party success if always a double edged sword if third parties don't feel they can compete.

 

[Vena]

The point isn't exclusivity rather where the audience is. FFXV may be on XB1 but the majority of the audience are on PS4 hence the latter being a priority. Same with KH3.

The 3DS has the biggest jRPG audience the world over, audience isn't a problem. We're not talking about WRPGs or western shooters and other AAA-titles. You don't even need to count Pokemon (and if you do, the comparison is laughably lopsided). There are multitudes of million(s)+ sellers for the genre or similar genres.

This is the audience the NX will be looking to carry over, not the hilariously small sample size of what is on the WiiU (and even then, its still comparable to the PS4 in the west because the market for jRPGs has pretty much bottomed out if its not a big name brand).

The best thing for the domestic market would probably be for all the biggest franchises to be on one platform. The problem with that is that half of those franchises are Nintendo's and a bunch of the others are western focused and focused on Sony platforms.

I mean, this is basically identifying one of the biggest problems with the domestic market. No healthy market in motion would have one company that controls almost the entirety of strong domestic products/IP, and this is within a scenario where said company didn't just buy up everything healthy (to form a monopoly) they just didn't destroy their own properties and cultivated new ones over time.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

The 3DS has the biggest jRPG audience the world over,audience isn't a problem. We're not talking about WRPGs or western shooters and other AAA-titles. You don't even need to count Pokemon (and if you do, the comparison is laughably lopsided). There are multitudes of million(s)+ sellers for the genre or similar genres.

This is the audience the NX will be looking to carry over, not the hilariously small sample size of what is on the WiiU (and even then, its still comparable to the PS4 in the west because the market for jRPGs has pretty much bottomed out if its not a big name brand).

No it does not.

 

[Vena]

No it does not.

Would you like to provide examples of this? Because it most certainly appears to me that it does with or without including Pokemon, it really doesn't matter.

 

[Oregano]

The 3DS has the biggest jRPG audience the world over, audience isn't a problem. We're not talking about WRPGs or western shooters and other AAA-titles. You don't even need to count Pokemon (and if you do, the comparison is laughably lopsided). There are multitudes of million(s)+ sellers for the genre or similar genres.

This is the audience the NX will be looking to carry over, not the hilariously small sample size of what is on the WiiU (and even then, its still comparable to the PS4 in the west because the market for jRPGs has pretty much bottomed out if its not a big name brand).



I mean, this is basically identifying one of the biggest problems with the domestic market. No healthy market in motion would have one company that controls almost the entirety of strong domestic products/IP, and this is within a scenario where said company didn't just buy up everything healthy (to form a monopoly) they just didn't destroy their own properties and cultivated new ones over time.

Yup, it's a shocking indictment of the industry that nobody else(other than Level 5) seems to be able to come up with even a single million selling franchise either.

No it does not.

I think you'd have a difficult time objectively arguing otherwise. EDIT: Unless you mean mobile.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

The best thing for the domestic market would probably be for all the biggest franchises to be on one platform. The problem with that is that half of those franchises are Nintendo's and a bunch of the others are western focused and focused on Sony platforms.

The difficulties today are a result of the Wii and DS dominating the market without needing those traditional big franchises.

If rumours are true NX will do a lot to bridge that gap(on paper anyway) but there's obviously still going to be irreconcilable differences.

Yeah, probably so but neither Nintendo nor Sony can create a platform capable of sustaining all those franchises. Both are needed to make the best of an awful market.

 

[Vena]

Yeah, probably so but neither Nintendo nor Sony can create a platform capable of sustaining all those franchises. Both are needed to make the best of an awful market.

I have a solution! Buy an NX, buy a PS4 or Vita, tape them together!

I have saved Japan!

 

[Oregano]

Yeah, probably so but neither Nintendo nor Sony can create a platform capable of sustaining all those franchises. Both are needed to make the best of an awful market.

By it's very nature though having disparate platforms for them is part of what's causing such a heavy decline. It's an untenable situation.

EDIT: Nintendo is only a Top 10 publisher in the west but is undisputed No.1 in Japan. That's why it's such a big difference compared to the west.

 

[Kresnik258]

Did not PSP to Vita is totally different beast problem especially when we know that Sony themselves is killing Vita by themselves to make sure that PS4 will get many of those Vita game.(Gravity Rush 2)

I don't really see how that goes against what Takao is saying. Although I feel Sony have never really put that much effort into Vita, they were trying to actively kill it (like they are now) for a number of years.

It was still getting SCEJ exclusive games in 2014 (Oreshika/Freedom Wars).

And I sorta agree with what Takao says. PSP was still getting notable exclusive games in 2013 (7th Dragon; Fate/Extra etc.), comparatively PS3 seems to have had it much easier in terms of cross gen stuff.

 

[Nyoro SF]

I think the Valkyria interview that just happened is one of my favorite examples of that.

In 2008, Valkyria Chronicles 1 released. Between the base game and the budget re-release, it sold 141,589 + 95,667 = 237,256 copies.

In 2011, Valkyria Chronicles 3 released, and sold 152,659 copies, which was at least still up from the initial release of Valkyria Chronicles 1.

Now, in 2016: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1270939

It's not surprising to me that there were English comments on the Japanese trailer, because it's a popular series overseas. However, what's really striking here is that there were zero comments in Japanese.

Valkyria Chronicles released in 2008 and then had a re-release on PC in 2014 that was clearly driven by everyone remembering positive word of mouth about the PS3 game. Since the PSP was a non-entity by the time of Valkyria Chronicles 2, this is a series that largely started and stopped in 2008 overseas. However, its Western popularity was enduring since the people playing games in 2008 are still playing games like this today. In Japan, it feels like they're basically having to launch a new IP only five years later, which makes the amount of changes they're making make a lot more sense in context.

Exactly. People overseas are still using VC1 as a frame of reference for continuation. That just shows how bad of a decision it was internationally to double down on budget PSP releases. When people see the new ARPG spinoff they think that Sega is disrespecting an 8-year old timeless game, but the reality is that Sega is acting off of their domestic release history of the series.

As we see now Sega no longer has confidence that the PS4 version is enough for domestic success so we're starting to sort of see a repeat of history.

I wonder if VC fans in Japan had their itch scratched by stuff like Chain Chronicle in the intervening years and thus don't have a particular attachment.

Although thinking about that has there ever been a series that has just picked up where it left off after a few year hiatus? How did Pikmin 3 do compared to the first two?

Chain Chronicle and VC don't play at all alike. The VC characters were just there for promotion/guest characters (works since the premise is just 'battling'). If an itch got scratched it was probably the gacha itch.

 

[Oregano]

Chain Chronicle and VC don't play at all alike. The VC characters were just there for promotion/guest characters (works since the premise is just 'battling'). If an itch got scratched it was probably the gacha itch.

Well that assumes that people bought it mainly for the specific gameplay and if that was the case Azure Revolution is probably an even worse idea.

Spoiler

I'm admittedly not very familiar with Chain Chronicle

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I have a solution! Buy an NX, buy a PS4 or Vita, tape them together!

I have saved Japan!

Hey, at least ideas are flowing!

By it's very nature though having disparate platforms for them is part of what's causing such a heavy decline. It's an untenable situation.

EDIT: Nintendo is only a Top 10 publisher in the west but is undisputed No.1 in Japan. That's why it's such a big difference compared to the west.

Hmm, I don't think things would change much even if they weren't disparate. That is why I also think my notion of putting the games on every possible platform isn't going to cause notable change either. It would just be making the most of the inevitable.

 

[Oregano]

Hey, at least ideas are flowing!

Hmm, I don't think things would change much even if they weren't disparate. That is why I also think my notion of putting the games on every possible platform isn't going to cause notable change either. It would just be making the most of the inevitable.

You might be right(and I'm not trying to suggest we should only have one platform or no exclusives) but if you compare it to the west I think the console industry benefits tremendously from the fact that if you buy a PS4(or an Xbox One) you can play 90% of the biggest games.

 

[Datschge]

Hmm, I don't think things would change much even if they weren't disparate. That is why I also think my notion of putting the games on every possible platform isn't going to cause notable change either. It would just be making the most of the inevitable.

Japanese publishers need to be capable to react quickly whenever a social phenomenon makes a console a mainstream success, ideally perpetuating the console's success and building a new "hardcore" audience willing to try new games. As is the already tiny market is further fractured into different audiences that are ridiculously typecasted, essentially withholding whole genres based on what often seem personal preferences by producers.

...and of course Nintendo first party success if always a double edged sword if third parties don't feel they can compete.

The inane part of that feeling is that somewhere after the SNES third parties got the idea having to compete with Nintendo by releasing similar games. But the market is never being broadened by copycats (only deepened at best) but by offering products that nobody else offers on the system. Those tend to go exclusively to Sony systems nowadays though even with multiplat being more common, even on handheld once Sony entered that market.

 

[Oregano]

Japanese publishers need to be capable to react quickly whenever a social phenomenon makes a console a mainstream success, ideally perpetuating the console's success and building a new "hardcore" audience willing to try new games. As is the already tiny market is further fractured into different audiences that are ridiculously typecasted, essentially withholding whole genres based on what often seem personal preferences by producers.


The inane part of that feeling is that somewhere after the SNES third parties got the idea having to compete with Nintendo by releasing similar games. But the market is never being broadened by copycats (only deepened at best) but by offering products that nobody else offers on the system. Those tend to go exclusively to Sony systems nowadays though even with multiplat being more common, even on handheld once Sony entered that market.

The most egregious recent example is the fact that the majority of hunting action games went to the Vita whilst Monster Hunter went to the 3DS and Koei Tecmo at least said it was because they wouldn't be competing with Monster Hunter on the Sony platforms. I think the fact that God Eater and Monster Hunter are healthy now shows it probably didn't work out and who knows what direction God Eater 3 will go in.

 

[Celine]

EDIT: Nintendo is only a Top 10 publisher in the west but is undisputed No.1 in Japan. That's why it's such a big difference compared to the west.

Unrelated but you just made me remember what the Top 10 publishers in Japan and USA were in 1999:

Times have changed.

 

[Nirolak]

That Midway, Acclaim, THQ triple threat.

 

[Oregano]

That Midway, Acclaim, THQ triple threat.

The Japanese side is funny because you have Sega, Enix, Bandai in a row(And Square and Namco both appear too)... not to mention Konami being no.2!

 

[Celine]

That Midway, Acclaim, THQ triple threat.

The Japanese side is funny because you have Sega, Enix, Bandai in a row(And Square and Namco both appear too)... not to mention Konami being no.2!

Eh eh the 3 american publishers that went bankrupt in a span of a decade and the japanese publishers merging between them is the first thing that one notice.

The other strange fact is ASCII being in the japanese Top 10 due to the huge success of the Derby Stallion series had in the '90s.
The company was absorbed by Kadokawa and is now known as ASCII Media Works (a niche publisher).

 

[Vena]

That Midway, Acclaim, THQ triple threat.

THQ is rising from the grave. Should we ready the chainsaws for Acclaim and Midway zombifying?

 

[DriftingSpirit]

You might be right(and I'm not trying to suggest we should only have one platform or no exclusives) but if you compare it to the west I think the console industry benefits tremendously from the fact that if you buy a PS4(or an Xbox One) you can play 90% of the biggest games.

Japanese publishers need to be capable to react quickly whenever a social phenomenon makes a console a mainstream success, ideally perpetuating the console's success and building a new "hardcore" audience willing to try new games. As is the already tiny market is further fractured into different audiences that are ridiculously typecasted, essentially withholding whole genres based on what often seem personal preferences by producers..

I see where you're both coming from.

 

[crinale]

Yesterday I checked Yodobashi of Akihabara on the way back from work and I can confirm all PS4 SKU are gone (seems like it was like that for a few days already though).

 

[Mario007]

The 3DS has the biggest jRPG audience the world over, audience isn't a problem. We're not talking about WRPGs or western shooters and other AAA-titles. You don't even need to count Pokemon (and if you do, the comparison is laughably lopsided). There are multitudes of million(s)+ sellers for the genre or similar genres.

This is the audience the NX will be looking to carry over, not the hilariously small sample size of what is on the WiiU (and even then, its still comparable to the PS4 in the west because the market for jRPGs has pretty much bottomed out if its not a big name brand).



I mean, this is basically identifying one of the biggest problems with the domestic market. No healthy market in motion would have one company that controls almost the entirety of strong domestic products/IP, and this is within a scenario where said company didn't just buy up everything healthy (to form a monopoly) they just didn't destroy their own properties and cultivated new ones over time.

OK, I'll bite. What JRPGs outside of pokemon did 2 million or above on the 3ds?

 

[Sammy Samusu]

OK, I'll bite. What JRPGs outside of pokemon did 2 million or above on the 3ds?

Yo-kai Watch.

 

[Mario007]

Yo-kai Watch.

Yokai Watch 2, to be precise.

And that doesn't really add to Venas international jrpg audience point.

But ok we're one for one with ps4 then and bloodborne. What's the next game?

 

[horuhe]

Yesterday I checked Yodobashi of Akihabara on the way back from work and I can confirm all PS4 SKU are gone (seems like it was like that for a few days already though).

For now, I would say only dedicated game stores handle the last PS4 units.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Yokai Watch 2, to be precise.

And that doesn't really add to Venas international jrpg audience point.

But ok we're one for one with ps4 then and bloodborne. What's the next game?

Well if Bloodborne is a JRPG then so is Monster Hunter 3U, 4, 4U and Generations. (all 2M+ sellers)



If we talk million sellers the list is even bigger (Fire Emblem, Bravely Default, Fantasy Life etc).

 

[Sterok]

OK, I'll bite. What JRPGs outside of pokemon did 2 million or above on the 3ds?

Yokai Watch (international sales should have pushed it above 2 million), Yokai 2, Yokai 2 Sinuchi, Mario & Luigi Dream Team off the top of my head. Fire Emblem Fates will hit it.

 

[MacTag]

OK, I'll bite. What JRPGs outside of pokemon did 2 million or above on the 3ds?

Yokai Watch, Fire Emblem and Mario & Luigi. YW Busters too technically, and Dragon Quest will.

For other million sellers there's Bravely Default, Kingdom Hearts, Fantasy Life, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Puzzle & Dragons and Monster Strike. Also Denpa Men if you count f2p games.

 

[Mario007]

Well if Bloodborne is a JRPG then so is Monster Hunter 3U, 4, 4U and Generations. (all 2M+ sellers)



If we talk million sellers the list is even bigger (Fire Emblem, Bravely Default, Fantasy Life etc).

I would definitely say Bloodborne is much more of a JRPG then Monster Hunter (as monster hunter itself tries to define itself as action hunting game and in fact soon will have an RPG spin off).
To have a list of million sellers is nice but if that's the "biggest international jrpg userbase" that can be offered then I fear for the genre.

Yokai Watch (international sales should have pushed it above 2 million), Yokai 2, Yokai 2 Sinuchi, Mario & Luigi Dream Team off the top of my head. Fire Emblem Fates will hit it.

Fire Emblem is definitely not a jrpg in the same way that ff tactics isnt a jrpg. As for YW i doubt international sales were around 800k.

 

[MacTag]

So Bloodborne's a JRPG but Fire Emblem and FF Tactics aren't?

 

[Sterok]

Fire Emblem is definitely not a jrpg in the same way that ff tactics isnt a jrpg. As for YW i doubt international sales were around 800k.

If you pick and choose what is and isn't a JRPG, then of course the 3DS won't be able to meet the criteria. In any event, Yokai Watch sold 400K in NA, and it's selling well in Europe so it'll likely hit that number soon if it hasn't already, though of course until we get confirmation that's just speculation.

 

[Sandfox]

How many JRPGs in general are selling 2 million?

 

[MacTag]

How many JRPGs in general are selling 2 million?

On consoles? None yet but WRPGs are doing great.

 

[Vena]

To have a list of million sellers is nice but if that's the "biggest international jrpg userbase" that can be offered then I fear for the genre.

The fact that market has effectively shriveled up, has nothing much do with what I said or do much to counter it. The 3DS's jRPG audience isn't some awe-inspiring number but it is still the largest (unless you count Pokemon, then it is actually quite large), that doesn't mean its great or that the rest of the market for the genre isn't in complete shambles.

In the west, we're talking about a market that has the two top sellers as Xenoblade Chronicles X and Final Fantasy Type-0HD. We'll add P5 and FFXV to that list, but when your sharing "the top" with a game on the WiiU of all things, you know you don't have much of a market.

Matters in the west are at such a level that #FE is right in line with most other products to market, including Tales.

 

[Mario007]

So Bloodborne's a JRPG but Fire Emblem and FF Tactics aren't?

Both FE and FF are SRPGs. I thought that was pretty well established.

If you pick and choose what is and isn't a JRPG, then of course the 3DS won't be able to meet the criteria. In any event, Yokai Watch sold 400K in NA, and it's selling well in Europe so it'll likely hit that number soon if it hasn't already, though of course until we get confirmation that's just speculation.

I'm not pick and chosing. If it makes you feel better I'll remove bloodborne top if its too controversial.

Again "selling well in Europe" is totally unquantifiable given the PAL charts and YW doing well only in Spain and Italy.

So ok then, we've reached the concensus that for a console to be a global leader in JRPGs it needs around 3 two million sellers and around four one million sellers. That's really poor for the genre.

 

[Vena]

So ok then, we've reached the concensus that for a console to be a global leader in JRPGs it needs around 3 two million sellers and around four one million sellers. That's really poor for the genre.

That is the state of the genre if you wish to exclude Pokemon.

Also 3DS would still probably have ~7 or so million seller in the genre even with your stipulations.

 

[Mario007]

The fact that market has effectively shriveled up, has nothing much do with what I said or do much to counter it. The 3DS's jRPG audience isn't some awe-inspiring number but it is still the largest (unless you count Pokemon, then it is actually quite large), that doesn't mean its great or that the rest of the market for the genre isn't in complete shambles.

In the west, we're talking about a market that has the two top sellers as Xenoblade Chronicles X and Final Fantasy Type-0HD. We'll add P5 and FFXV to that list, but when your sharing "the top" with a game on the WiiU of all things, you know you don't have much of a market.

Matters in the west are at such a level that #FE is right in line with most other products to market, including Tales.

To be fair how many jrpgs were actually released in retail in the west for the ps4? You had tales, type 0 and if you want to count them bloodborne and ds3. Last 3ds jrpg success story from the west was bravely default and that managed to sell one million.

I just don't see the point in arguing over which of the two dead jrpg platforms is deader in the west.

 

[Sandfox]

On consoles? None yet but WRPGs are doing great.

Will DQ hit 2 million on the PS4?

 

[Vena]

To be fair how many jrpgs were actually released in retail in the west for the ps4? You had tales, type 0 and if you want to count them bloodborne and ds3. Last 3ds jrpg success story from the west was bravely default and that managed to sell one million.

I just don't see the point in arguing over which of the two dead jrpg platforms is deader in the west.

There's been a number of retail releases... the fact that you probably don't even remember them, says a lot about the state of those releases in their relevance.

But that's all beside the point because I think you misunderstood. I wasn't arguing the point. My initial post was about the audience being or not being present for games of the ilk for Nintendo's platforms... that audience most certainly exists.

Will DQ hit 2 million on the PS4?

Unless it launches in 2018... no?

 

[MacTag]

Both FE and FF are SRPGs. I thought that was pretty well established.

And Bloodborne's an action RPG. All 3 are in RPG subgenres and were made in Japan. I wonder what we could call that?

I'm not pick and chosing. If it makes you feel better I'll remove bloodborne top if its too controversial.

Again "selling well in Europe" is totally unquantifiable given the PAL charts and YW doing well only in Spain and Italy.

So ok then, we've reached the concensus that for a console to be a global leader in JRPGs it needs around 3 two million sellers and around four one million sellers. That's really poor for the genre.

Well, technically YW2 is already over 3 million. The west will probably push it over 4 million.

Also, Pokemon does exist and is sitting around 15m for XY and 12m for ORAS iirc. And there are quite few more between 1-2m on 3DS than four games.

 

[casiopao]

OK, I'll bite. What JRPGs outside of pokemon did 2 million or above on the 3ds?

Counting Bloodborne on PS4, then Mon Hun 3U and 4U should also count on 3DS there.

If u are counting 1 million, 3DS will had even more advantage. Bravely, Fire Emblem, Kingdom Hearts DDD, Fantasy Life, etc.

Unless u wanted to say all those don't count lol.

To be fair how many jrpgs were actually released in retail in the west for the ps4? You had tales, type 0 and if you want to count them bloodborne and ds3. Last 3ds jrpg success story from the west was bravely default and that managed to sell one million.

I just don't see the point in arguing over which of the two dead jrpg platforms is deader in the west.

Falcom title?Gust title? Compile Heart title? Natural Doctrine(lol) There are quite a number of jrpg that did released retail on PS4 there. The fact is many is only niche title or simply bomb. 3DS is simply by fact a more friendly platform for Jrpg which probably also helped a lot buy the cheaper price for the game.

 

[Jon Carter]

Again "selling well in Europe" is totally unquantifiable given the PAL charts and YW doing well only in Spain and Italy.

It charted last week in both France (#5) and the U.K. (#40). The game will sell two million copies for sure, if it's not there already.