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Media Create Sales: Week 48, 2015 (Nov 23 - Nov 29)

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Sep 2, 2011
18,552
20
0
Well, cross-platform is much more common nowadays than in 2011, and Nintendo was pretty clear in pursuing the ecosystem approach Sony had been implementing since a few years. Also, on which platform MH3G should have been appeared on top of 3DS?

The Wii, probably? It had the original Tri, that sold more than one million, and even if it was already dead, Nintendo was still releasing a certain Zelda on the same november.

I don't know, I'm just saying that it already happened to see an expansion as exclusive release on a new "leading" platform. Of course it's more interesting for the platform older to see big releases for the new platform, but I also think that for major games there is a shared interest in pushing a new hardware.
We are seeing this from SE on PS4, for example, and in the portable segment (if NX will be portable), I'd say that it would be interest for third parties owners of very big portable Japanese experiences to push the NX, if it will really be the only dedicated console device in that segment.

I'd also say that it would be interesting to see Pokemon Z in the very same situation, even more if we think that, apparently, Nintendo's part in Pokemon should be slighlty bigger than in Monster Hunter.

But please note, I agree that it probably would not happen and both games will be 3DS/NX cross platform at best.
 
Mar 31, 2013
1,893
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France
I just don't think SQEX would have bothered for a sub-100k game across two platforms, one being the reference platform for jRPGs by the same company. Perhaps Steam and mobile will save the game if it will bomb on PSV & PS4

Yup ! Exactly like Steam is saving the western performance of Dragon Quest Heroes right now, by the way, with 12,341 owners on first week. Makes me think that maybe the PS4 audience wasn't the problem after all.
 
Mar 31, 2013
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*perhaps*

Also, mobile is the most popular market for video games in Japan and some jRPGs sold quite well on Steam.

You rarely see Square Enix putting a 5000 yen RPG on mobile though, so I think Setsuna will stay on PlayStation, but yeah mobile is big in Japan, I've heard.

Anyway, what's your impression about the Dragon Quest Heroes reception on Steam ? On the last NPD thread, you were quick to point out that the game and the PlayStation audience didn't match, if I remember correctly. In light of the PC reception, do you feel like maybe the problem didn't come from the PS audience and maybe more from the lack of awareness of the IP here ?
 
Mar 31, 2013
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Double post sorry, but a cool news on a completely different topic, Life is Strange is coming to Japan on PS4, PS3 and PC on March 3, with japanese dub. Only the PS4 version will have a retail release.
 

Pennywise83

Banned
Oct 10, 2007
4,117
0
0
www.wiitalia.it
You rarely see Square Enix putting a 5000 yen RPG on mobile though, so I think Setsuna will stay on PlayStation, but yeah mobile is big in Japan, I've heard.

Anyway, what's your impression about the Dragon Quest Heroes reception on Steam ? On the last NPD thread, you were quick to point out that the game and the PlayStation audience didn't match, if I remember correctly. In light of the PC reception, do you feel like maybe the problem didn't come from the PS audience and maybe more from the lack of awareness of the IP here ?

The fact that is developed using the Unity framework seems to point out the company's intention of porting the game somewhere else - but perhaps am I wrong? Maybe it's just a cheap and easy tool to develop games.

As for DQ Heroes, SQEX might regret soon of taking the worldwide approach for the DQ IP.
 

sörine

Banned
Sep 1, 2013
7,582
0
0
Yup ! Exactly like Steam is saving the western performance of Dragon Quest Heroes right now, by the way, with 12,341 owners on first week. Makes me think that maybe the PS4 audience wasn't the problem after all.
Steamspy isn't perfect and accuracy isn't great until about a month out. The site admits that and explains why if you read up on it.

Heroes PS4 tanked so hard that any sales for the localized version will probably help. Still the release could've been handled better than launching a late full priced port right between big holiday sales. Hopefully SE do better with Builders which has HUGE western potential on Steam.

It'll sell 100k once it hit $9.99
Well, more like 500k+. When you slash price that far sales really balloon for anything moderately high profile on Steam. Look at Valkyria.

Maybe they should have released it on Wii U too. Didn't Hyrule Warriors sell more than 400k in the US? 🐷
Just an aside but it's super weird that Koei never followed up on HW crazy success with anything at all. Like, why not take a chance and port something to Wii U after you've introduced over a million Nintendo fans to Musou? Maybe divert resources from those 360/One ports that don't sell anyway?

And they're not trying with old games either. They didn't even discount Orochi 3 or FOTNS2 on the eShop, both have always been full price. Crazy.
 

cheesekao

Member
Apr 26, 2014
4,161
0
0
sörine;188531489 said:
Steamspy isn't perfect and accuracy isn't great until about a month out. The site admits that and explains why if you read up on it.

Heroes PS4 tanked so hard that any sales for the localized version will probably help. Still the release could've been handled better than launching a late full priced port right between big holiday sales. Hopefully SE do better with Builders which has HUGE western potential on Steam.
I don't get this. DQH sold 31k FM in the US alone. If steam sales after 1 month are around that number would you consider it a tank too? Do we even know what SE's expectations of the title is?
 
Mar 31, 2013
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sörine;188531489 said:
Steamspy isn't perfect and accuracy isn't great until about a month out. The site admits that and explains why if you read up on it.

Heroes PS4 tanked so hard that any sales for the localized version will probably help. Still the release could've been handled better than launching a late full priced port right between big holiday sales. Hopefully SE do better with Builders which has HUGE western potential on Steam.

No problemo, we'll give it a new look after one month. Funny to call this a late port with less than two months difference, though.
 

sörine

Banned
Sep 1, 2013
7,582
0
0
I don't get this. DQH sold 31k FM in the US alone. If steam sales after 1 month are around that number would you consider it a tank too? Do we even know what SE's expectations of the title is?
I'd imagine expectations were higher than doing worse than the DS remakes which were what convinced SE to drop franchise localization last time. Maybe that's an unfair expectation given what Heroes actually is but the game really didn't do well by any metric, on either PS4 or Steam so far. It'll be interesting to see how Builders and the 3DS remakes do.

No problemo, we'll give it a new look after one month. Funny to call this a late port with less than two months difference, though.
Well, two months late, stealth announced, full priced and launching between the Black Friday and Winter sales. The release timing and context probably couldn't have been worse. Being an Omega Force game too didn't exactly inspire confidence with the PC crowd given their track record on the platform. Heroes is actually their first release that isn't inferior to the PS4 version.
 

cheesekao

Member
Apr 26, 2014
4,161
0
0
sörine;188532209 said:
I'd imagine expectations were higher than doing worse than the DS remakes which were what convinced SE to drop franchise localization last time. Maybe that's an unfair expectation given what Heroes actually is but the game really didn't do well by any metric, on either PS4 or Steam so far. It'll be interesting to see how Builders and the 3DS remakes do.
I would imagine that it did in line what what the dynasty warriors series normally do. Do you have any non-steam numbers for that?
 

lherre

Accurate
Feb 6, 2007
1,741
1
0
www.beta-zero.com
sörine;188531489 said:
Just an aside but it's super weird that Koei never followed up on HW crazy success with anything at all. Like, why not take a chance and port something to Wii U after you've introduced over a million Nintendo fans to Musou? Maybe divert resources from those 360/One ports that don't sell anyway?

And they're not trying with old games either. They didn't even discount Orochi 3 or FOTNS2 on the eShop, both have always been full price. Crazy.

Maybe because the popularity of HW comes from Zelda franchise and not the musou genre (I mean in western territories).
 

sörine

Banned
Sep 1, 2013
7,582
0
0
I would imagine that it did in line what what the dynasty warriors series normally do. Do you have any non-steam numbers for that?
We don't sadly. Only spinoffs like Zelda and One Piece.

Maybe because the popularity of HW comes from Zelda franchise and not the musou genre (I mean in western territories).
Yes, that's why it sold big. But now you've got a large potential audience familiar with your core game design and you do... nothing?
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,612
2
1,130
Maybe because the popularity of HW comes from Zelda franchise and not the musou genre (I mean in western territories).
I think so too. I cant see that the million people who bought HW was first introduced to musou through HW.
 

Bazry

Member
Nov 12, 2014
775
0
0
Manchester
Hyrule Warriors was my first musou game, I was certainly interested at getting another on Wii U but the others available at the time seemed to be poorer ports of older games from what I read, so I never bothered
 

lherre

Accurate
Feb 6, 2007
1,741
1
0
www.beta-zero.com
sörine;188533079 said:
We don't sadly. Only spinoffs like Zelda and One Piece.


Yes, that's why it sold big. But now you've got a large potential audience familiar with your core game design and you do... nothing?

Yes, but I don't think the potential HW customers will buy another musou if it doesn't feature Zelda or other Nintendo franchises as we could see with regular musous here or anime musou games since they saw a "zelda" game not a musou game.
 

sörine

Banned
Sep 1, 2013
7,582
0
0
Yes, but I don't think the potential HW customers will buy another musou if it doesn't feature Zelda or other Nintendo franchises as we could see with regular musous here or anime musou games since they saw a "zelda" game not a musou game.
Well, I doubt it'd do a million like HW did. No other Musou will be doing that on any platform again unless Koei sells themselves to EA and gets that Star Wars license.

I do think there was an opportunity there, if not for a targeted port or two then at least a spruced up budget rerelease of WO3 of something. Too bad we'll never know since Koei elected to do literally nothing. Wii U isn't even getting a Legends rerelease to go with the 3DS HW port for some reason.
 

Alrus

Member
Apr 4, 2010
9,783
0
595
Belgium
I think so too. I cant see that the million people who bought HW was first introduced to musou through HW.

Yes, but I don't think the potential HW customers will buy another musou if it doesn't feature Zelda or other Nintendo franchises as we could see with regular musous here or anime musou games since they saw a "zelda" game not a musou game.

I wouldn't really have hurt Koei to try though.
 

L~A

Member
Jan 19, 2013
12,188
0
610
Media Create:

New3DS LL 76,779
PS4 35,782
Wii U 32,604
Vita 21,860
New3DS 17,202
3DS 7,915
PS3 1,916
3DS LL 1,113
Vita TV 646
Xbox One 289


MHX: 332k
Mario & Luigi: 49k
Yo-kai Watch Dance: Just Bomba Edition: 7k
 

Ryng_tolu

Banned
Jul 7, 2015
5,237
0
0
Italy
twitter.com
DAT 3DS. 20 million by end of year at this point is a given.
And great Wii U and PS4 sales. :D

Media Create:

New3DS LL 76,779
PS4 35,782
Wii U 32,604
Vita 21,860
New3DS 17,202
3DS 7,915
PS3 1,916
3DS LL 1,113
Vita TV 646
Xbox One 289


MHX: 332k
Mario & Luigi: 49k
Yo-kai Watch Dance: Just Bomba Edition: 7k

Bloodborne 15k too.
 

DarkLordMalik

Member
Aug 15, 2010
12,060
3
0
twitter.com
Of course SQEX had a say on localizations - or do you think Nintendo stole the code and did everything without asking the company who developed those games? lol

BS localization reminds a lot BD's - SQEX involvement was minimal.
The point is that BS was localized rather quickly compared to BD. So it is pretty clear to me they realized the importance of localization by that time and what do you think happened that made SE allow Nintendo to localize the game? The new CEO was definitely more lenient in letting Nintendo localize it hence DQVII, VIII were localized as well.

Indeed: SQEX didn't bother in bringing BD in Western markets and this clearly shows how the company didn't care about the project - therefore, expectations were in check. Project Setsuna seems to have a different scope in SQEX plans: a symbol of old-school jRPGs with a worldwide market appeal (hence the presentation during E3 - if SQEX hadn't cared, why wouldn't have bothered, after all?). Actually, I feel like SQEX sales expectations should be even higher than BD given how the latter was well-received worldwide (1m units and counting) and how much this changed the company plans onwards (the CEO talkes about how he was surprised to see such a wide success for an old-school jRPG). After all, Setsuna is launching on "the most popular Western platform (PS4)".
Oh please, stop bringing in the E3 presentation stuff. It is hilarious how you keep going back to E3 which in reality was the announcement of their Tokyo RPG Factory studio instead of Setsuna. They even sent a press release the same day and it was related to their studio, not Setsuna. So seriously, stop bringing the E3 point again and again, it is only going nowhere.


Right - I'm curious to see how those will perform and whether SQEX is ready for a cold shower in terms of sales numbers.
Considering they did zero work on Star Ocean 2 (1:1 port of PSP version), and stealthily released it for download, I doubt they had any big expecatations.

Aggressive means that expectations should be high enough, otherwise why even bother to create a development team for a string of sub-100k games? It'd be completely weird and against SQEX current strategy of investing where profits are.
Dude, come on. You keep saying this like you know the future. They are betting on creating games hoping that they sell well with each iteration and judging from the comments made by Matsuda, the third entry in the series will be the one that will determine the fate of the series, if there is no growth by then. Project Setsuna is just one of the game and since it is a new IP and a low-cost project, it is clear they don't have much expectations either.

You're confusing how the demo was received, and how the demo works as a marketing tool. The demo was received well (actually, Japan got a few demos), and this is true - it helped word-of-mouth and increase general awareness. It is also true that demos are typically marketed towards that already know the game existence, and perhaps are on the fence when considering the purchase. Demos can also be incredibly damaging - the fact that BD is a quality game of course helped, but this only shows how the development worked opposite to how SQEX invested in promoting the game itself (close to nil).

Also, I dont' understand what you're referring with "the demo also focused on a completely new area that was not in the final game" - the demo was set in Ancheim, and in the desert surrounding the town, which is totally a part of the final game.
So you basically agreed that the demo helped in selling more copies for Bravely Default. Case closed.

Well, demo should help in consumers' purchasing decision, especially when games are not in a popular genre already present on the platform - otherwise the demo only aims at communicating how much the game is different from competition. BD was released on a popular hardware with almost zero traditional turn-based jRPGs before it (DQM, SH, EOIV) exactly how Setsuna will be released on popular platforms with some jRPG on them.

I just don't think SQEX would have bothered for a sub-100k game across two platforms, one being the reference platform for jRPGs by the same company. Perhaps Steam and mobile will save the game if it will bomb on PSV & PS4.
Dragon Quest series is not turn-based JRPG? 3DS had no turn-based games in 2012?

sörine;188532209 said:
Well, two months late, stealth announced, full priced and launching between the Black Friday and Winter sales. The release timing and context probably couldn't have been worse. Being an Omega Force game too didn't exactly inspire confidence with the PC crowd given their track record on the platform. Heroes is actually their first release that isn't inferior to the PS4 version.
It is hilarious to see you defending the low sales of Steam and then throwing various factor while you conveniently ignored that DQH launched in a busy month on PS4 with the release of ToZ and Disgaea 3.

Then you point towards Omega Force track record but hilarious forget that the game was already confirmed to be a DX11 release and the PS4 port. They even gave a launch discount on PC and yet the game flopped hard. There is absolutely no excuse here and it is time you admit you were just trying to dig dirt on PS4 when repeating the debut month numbers of DQH.
 

Pennywise83

Banned
Oct 10, 2007
4,117
0
0
www.wiitalia.it
The point is that BS was localized rather quickly compared to BD. So it is pretty clear to me they realized the importance of localization by that time and what do you think happened that made SE allow Nintendo to localize the game? The new CEO was definitely more lenient in letting Nintendo localize it hence DQVII, VIII were localized as well.

BD sold 1m units worldwide - it sold extremely well in Western markets, and got a good reputation as well, which of course propelled the localization. We're still talking about a 10+ months delay from the Japanese release to the European one, though (April 2015 - February / March 2016). Causality of SQEX involvement on a faster localization cannot be adequately assessed because of plenty of confounding reasons.

Oh please, stop bringing in the E3 presentation stuff. It is hilarious how you keep going back to E3 which in reality was the announcement of their Tokyo RPG Factory studio instead of Setsuna. They even sent a press release the same day and it was related to their studio, not Setsuna. So seriously, stop bringing the E3 point again and again, it is only going nowhere.

During the E3 conference, SQEX announced the creation of a new development team, and its new project - this signals even more SQEX intention of having high expectations about the output of such team - otherwise, why even bother announcing its existence during the event? I have never seen SQEX promoting one of his teams during a press conference aimed at a worldwide audience. People were comparing Setsuna to Child of Light - but Child of Light was announcing during Digital Days, a conference focused on small projects. The mere fact that Setsuna was announced along its development team during the biggest conference of the year says it all - do you really see SQEX focusing on announcing a sub-100k game (sub-250k worldwide, going by your expectations) during E3? I don't.

Considering they did zero work on Star Ocean 2 (1:1 port of PSP version), and stealthily released it for download, I doubt they had any big expecatations.

Dude, come on. You keep saying this like you know the future. They are betting on creating games hoping that they sell well with each iteration and judging from the comments made by Matsuda, the third entry in the series will be the one that will determine the fate of the series, if there is no growth by then. Project Setsuna is just one of the game and since it is a new IP and a low-cost project, it is clear they don't have much expectations either.

There's a thin line between "low expectations" and "utter failure". I can totally expect a sub-100k game across two platforms from Gust or Nippon Ichi (which, by the way, sometimes canned IPs based on those sales), not from SQEX, which created a development team solely with the purpose of creating old-school jRPGs on the platform(s) where the company itself think jRPG gamers will be in the future.

So you basically agreed that the demo helped in selling more copies for Bravely Default. Case closed.

The point wasn't related to how the demo sold the game - we cannot establish a causation in this case (or, if you could, please let us know). the point was that SQEX marketing push for BD was minimal, and there were people from Japan telling us that, and also people discussing how all the marketing was left to the development team. The announcement of Setsuna during E3 already tells you how SQEX shifted the marketing push from the development team - if the push has been slowed down after the announcement, then it's another matter. I saw Famitsu previews for the game, so there's that. And again, I'm not expecting BD numbers (marketing push seems smaller) but expectations should be around that.

Dragon Quest series is not turn-based JRPG? 3DS had no turn-based games in 2012?

The only turn-based DQ game 3DS got before BD was Terry's Wonderland, which is a monster-collecting game aimed at a young audience. In terms of old-school jRPGs, the only game 3DS got before BD were Soul Hackers, Tales of the Abyss porting and Medabots 7 - not really games that build an audience reactive to new IPs.
 

sörine

Banned
Sep 1, 2013
7,582
0
0
It is hilarious to see you defending the low sales of Steam and then throwing various factor while you conveniently ignored that DQH launched in a busy month on PS4 with the release of ToZ and Disgaea 3.

Then you point towards Omega Force track record but hilarious forget that the game was already confirmed to be a DX11 release and the PS4 port. They even gave a launch discount on PC and yet the game flopped hard. There is absolutely no excuse here and it is time you admit you were just trying to dig dirt on PS4 when repeating the debut month numbers of DQH.
I'm sorry? Who's defending and ignoring what? I already said the Steam port tanked too and explained why that is. There's good reasons why the PS4 version bombed as well and I've always maintained Heroes as a product (fanservice action/strategy game) was a poor choice for SE to relaunch the brand in the west with anyway. It'd have been better to hold off and lead with Builders I think, or let Nintendo stick their necks out instead with the 3DS remakes.

Heroes launching alongside Disgaea 5 and Zestiria was absolutely a big mistake, and virtually everyone pointed that out beforehand. That in itself doesn't mean Heroes didn't bomb when it very clearly did though. That all 3 games combined likely didn't crack 100k on PS4 isn't exactly an encouraging sign for the platform to sell these sorts of games either, despite the general narrative the past year that PS4's western dominance would somehow trickle down and "save" Japanese game makers. In fact the system tends to be selling these games even worse than PS3 did initially. It seems like Sony's big win with courting the fps loving Xbox base has, well, actually brought the fps loving Xbox base complete with their buying habits.

And you're wrong on the particulars of the Steam launch too. It was confirmed DX11 a whole week or so before release and never confirmed to be a PS4 port. We literally didn't know until it was available and people were playing it that it wasn't a PS3 port, and Omega Force is a developer notorious even for using PS4 media to officially represent PS3 Steam ports in the past. What version Heroes would be based on was a very legitimate question until people could confirm for themselves. Even the press didn't know.

Add to that the game didn't have a launch discount but a pre-order only discount. Which meant people would only get it if they took the plunge blind and bought it before confirming if it was the PS3 or PS4 version. And on top of that the discount was only $6, which meant it was still more expensive than the PS4 version which can already be had for under $50 retail.
 
Mar 31, 2013
1,893
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I don't get why Square Enix should have cut the price of DQ Heroes on PC with a 6 weeks launch difference, but the PC has a natural advantage over the console on this front anyway : Dragon Quest Heroes is 49,99€ on Steam, when the game is 59,99€ on PS4.

As for the potential concern about the quality of the port, indeed KT games on PC have been quite bad and Steam users know that because they are clever. And because they are clever, they can just look at the Steam reviews and see that everything is okay, from the day the game was released.

So yeah, let's stop spinning around. The Steam reception of DQ Heroes shows that the previous results of the game was not due to the premature idea that a JRPG have to underperform on PS4, but came from the game itself, which is a spinoff, and/or from the lack of awareness of the IP.

And the best way to address that, I would say, is to educate the western audience by releasing more Dragon Quest games here, including DQ Heroes II and DQ 11. I don't know about DQ Builders.
 

sörine

Banned
Sep 1, 2013
7,582
0
0
I don't get why Square Enix should have cut the price of DQ Heroes on PC with a 6 weeks launch difference, but the PC has a natural advantage over the console on this front anyway : Dragon Quest Heroes is 49,99€ on Steam, when the game is 59,99€ on PS4.

As for the potential concern about the quality of the port, indeed KT games on PC have been quite bad and Steam users know that because they are clever. And because they are clever, they can just look at the Steam reviews and see that everything is okay, from the day the game was released.

So yeah, let's stop spinning around. The Steam reception of DQ Heroes shows that the previous results of the game was not due to the premature idea that a JRPG have to underperform on PS4, but came from the game itself, which is a spinoff, and/or from the lack of awareness of the IP.

And the best way to address that, I would say, is to educate the western audience by releasing more Dragon Quest games here, including DQ Heroes II and DQ 11. I don't know about DQ Builders.
It's different in America, here DQ Heroes is $59.99 on Steam and on PS4 you can find it at retail for under $50 pretty much everywhere. Gamestop had it for $39.99 over Black Friday weekend too.

I'd argue Builders has much more potential than Heroes ever did and would be a better franchise relaunch product with a wider audience reach. Minecraft clones are a much easier sell in the west than Musou games, and the genre is huge among kids especially. On Steam in particular there's a big opportunity given Minecraft's absence on the store. I can see Valve wanting to push it too due to that, they've given Terraria preferential visibility and promotion for much the same reason and it's ended up selling millions on Steam.

As always though, it all depends on how well SE handles the rollout. And their track record with DQ doesn't really inspire confidence.