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Media Create Sales: Week 50, 2011 (Dec 12 - Dec 18)

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Oct 16, 2007
13,883
2
1,205
Jinfash
lol We're all confused. I thought that was sell through, but that isn't. Those percentages are for the share of the 325k Vita sold between the 2 SKUs. If WiFi was undershipped (which it looks like it was), it would be below 3G.
Derrrp. You're right. I blame MLP90.
 

jcm

Member
Dec 8, 2008
5,102
0
0
When the digital sales start hitting impressive enough numbers to really make a difference, we wont need to speculate, trust me. Sony and the developer/publishers will make it known.
Except I didn't say lets assume they are zero.

I'm not even sure who you are talking to, your whole post hinged on something I never said.
You said they aren't large enough to make a difference, based on some dog that didn't bark logic. That's not exactly assuming they are zero, but it's effectively the same.
 

Cipherr

Member
Dec 15, 2007
28,083
0
1,025
Kansas City Missouri
You said they aren't large enough to make a difference, based on some dog that didn't bark logic. That's not exactly assuming they are zero, but it's effectively the same.
No its not. The context of that quote is that its not enough to turn a bomb into a hit, which it likely isn't, and thats a view echoed by MANY others in this very thread. That is NOT the same as saying its zero. Sorry but no. I never ever said they were zero. Folks are trying to put words into my mouth, knock it off. I dont recall anyone in this thread saying we should assume zero digital copies were sold.

And btw, I stand by that quote, when the DD sales start making up enough of the whole that its enough to turn a bomb into a hit, then Ill bet that the publishers, developers, and platform holders release those numbers more frequently.
 
It's early for an anniversary topic, and these are the prime ongoing sales threads, so here's something a little off-topic. With Iwata's 10th anniversary as president of Nintendo coming up, and DS/Wii being the company's biggest successes, I wondered how the hardware totals during the Yamauchi and Iwata years compared. This doesn't include pre-cartridge machines, Virtual Boy, or things like Pokémon Pikachu for whatever difference they'd make.

Through the end of the quarter Yamauchi stepped down, NES+GB/C+SNES+N64+GBA+GCN comes to 284.2 million. Through the end of September 2011, NES+GB/C+SNES+N64+GBA+GCN+DS+Wii+3DS comes to 610.84 million, for a gain of 326.64 million.

To be more Japan-specific, changing the above from worldwide to Japan, we get 81.92 million for the Yamauchi years and 142.45 million through September, for a gain of 60.53 million--so Yamauchi is still in the lead.
 

jcm

Member
Dec 8, 2008
5,102
0
0
No its not. The context of that quote is that its not enough to turn a bomb into a hit, which it likely isn't, and thats a view echoed by MANY others in this very thread. That is NOT the same as saying its zero. Sorry but no. I never ever said they were zero. Folks are trying to put words into my mouth, knock it off. I dont recall anyone in this thread saying we should assume zero digital copies were sold.

And btw, I stand by that quote, when the DD sales start making up enough of the whole that its enough to turn a bomb into a hit, then Ill bet that the publishers, developers, and platform holders release those numbers more frequently.
I'm not putting words into your mouth, I'm quoting your post. You may have meant to write DD isn't enough "to turn a bomb into a hit", but that isn't what you wrote, and the post you were replying to wasn't saying that either. You said that DD sales aren't enough to "really make a difference". You were replying to test_account. If you follow the chain all the way back, you find test_account replying to Nuclear Muffin's statement "They wouldn't even be a statistical blip at this point." Nobody was claiming that DD is enough to "to turn a bomb into a hit".

Don't get angry with me if your post didn't accurately represent your thoughts.
 

Cipherr

Member
Dec 15, 2007
28,083
0
1,025
Kansas City Missouri
I'm not putting words into your mouth, I'm quoting your post. You may have meant to write DD isn't enough "to turn a bomb into a hit", but that isn't what you wrote, and the post you were replying to wasn't saying that either. You said that DD sales aren't enough to "really make a difference". You were replying to test_account. If you follow the chain all the way back, you find test_account replying to Nuclear Muffin's statement "They wouldn't even be a statistical blip at this point." Nobody was claiming that DD is enough to "to turn a bomb into a hit".

Don't get angry with me if your post didn't accurately represent your thoughts.
You know what, forget the skirting around the edge of shit. I never said DD sales equaled zero. Even if you were to dense to wonder "The difference between what and what?" when you read that statement, you still made a leap of logic that is NOT implied by trying to construe the statement of "Enough to make a difference" and equate it to "Zero DD copies sold".

That connection cannot be made period, and thats where you went off the rails, and cross into putting words into my mouth. I find it ironic you try and argue the literal wording of what I typed, then in the next breath try and twist those very words into "Well maybe by saying that, you meant zero copies sold".

Your insistence on taking that statement literal, sort of craps on your whole: "but it's effectively the same." You either want to take it literally or you don't.
 

extralite

Member
Jun 27, 2011
1,843
0
485
electrolit.net
Based on... what, exactly? There was never any moment where the existence of FFIX was known to the public as anything but a real FF game, and I've never seen anything suggesting it was ever developed as anything but a full series entry.

EDIT: Again, the point here has to do with titles that are revealed to the public in one state and then change to another; there are tons of games that were reimagined during development.
Second, in a recent interview with Next Generation Online, Shinji Hashimoto, Square's Senior Vice President of Software Development and Character Licensing and lead producer for Final Fantasy VIII, said something interesting regarding Final Fantasy IX:

NGO: Speaking of part 9, is it in the works?

Hashimoto: Whether it will be called Final Fantasy 9 or not is not yet decided. At Squaresoft, we are always looking to come up with cutting edge storylines and systems. Whether that new storyline will be called FF9 has not been decided.
http://www.psy-q.ch/mirrors/thegia/sites/www.thegia.com/news/n990524a.html

As you can see it's not unprecedented.

In a way you could call FFIX the first Crystal Chronicles as FFII was the first SaGa game or as FFIII gave birth to the Mana series.

Anyway, there's a lot of hype for Versus. Kitase recently said action RPGs might be the way to go for the main series. It is quite likely that the rename of Versus to XV will happen, at least that's how I read Kitase's comment. And whether you agree if that's a good move, when it'll happen the sales will prove you wrong.
 

extralite

Member
Jun 27, 2011
1,843
0
485
electrolit.net
I'm pretty sure Versus cost a lot as well. In terms of scope they're both worthy to be FFs.

Edit 1: They just are special in terms of theme and degree: IX was back to the roots as Versus is further approaching reality, and both a bit extreme. Which is why they both weren't made mainline FFs outright but the creators kind of wanted to make them mainline from the start.

Edit2: And I always thought that the Versus referred to rivalries between creators inside Square. Nomura and Nojima took Toriyama's challenge to make the bigger FFXIII.
 

[Nintex]

Member
Jun 21, 2005
18,889
5
1,410
31
The Netherlands
www.n1ntendo.nl
It's early for an anniversary topic, and these are the prime ongoing sales threads, so here's something a little off-topic. With Iwata's 10th anniversary as president of Nintendo coming up, and DS/Wii being the company's biggest successes, I wondered how the hardware totals during the Yamauchi and Iwata years compared. This doesn't include pre-cartridge machines, Virtual Boy, or things like Pokémon Pikachu for whatever difference they'd make.

Through the end of the quarter Yamauchi stepped down, NES+GB/C+SNES+N64+GBA+GCN comes to 284.2 million. Through the end of September 2011, NES+GB/C+SNES+N64+GBA+GCN+DS+Wii+3DS comes to 610.84 million, for a gain of 326.64 million.

To be more Japan-specific, changing the above from worldwide to Japan, we get 81.92 million for the Yamauchi years and 142.45 million through September, for a gain of 60.53 million--so Yamauchi is still in the lead.
How would these stack up if you add GameCube/GBA LTD sales to Yamauchi instead of the numbers they were at when he stepped down? Since I consider those to be me more Yamauchi's systems than Iwata's. With that said Iwata did an amazing job, I recall someone on GAF posting in the early days saying that Iwata was a 'numbers man, a cruncher' and he certainly lived up that reputation.
 
Mar 3, 2010
17,373
0
0
I thought as much. Sony wanted to make large profit over 3G instead of getting more units sales. Sony must be making a lot of money from memory cards and accessories. Ship more Wifi Sony.
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
0
You said they aren't large enough to make a difference, based on some dog that didn't bark logic.
They never have been large enough to matter. On PSP (the only platform meaningfully affected by this sort of distinction previously), there has never been a title whose performance via PSN was great enough to receive a press release or a positive note in a company's financials; never been a title whose later-revealed total shipment was so inexplicably large that only significant DD sales could explain the discrepancy; never been a title which reached one notable milestone (like, say, 3.5 million) in retail sales, but then was reported to reach another such milestone (say, 4 million) in a way that only PSN sales could account for. There's also never been any significant downward trend on retail sales of titles with PSN releases compared to titles without, as one would expect if any significant audience were substituting their purchase. For the purposes of PSP, assuming that digital sales are extant, non-zero, but small enough to not meaningfully alter analysis has always been the correct choice.

It's possible that this will change with the Vita, and we'll have to start forming new models for analyzing Vita software sales to take this into account... but until we get more info, carrying over our working model for PSP is the correct decision.
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
0
As you can see it's not unprecedented.
It's not really equivalent to the Versus situation or within the bound of my question (games that were revealed one way and then upgraded to the main series later), but still interesting. Thanks for digging up the cite.

And whether you agree if that's a good move, when it'll happen the sales will prove you wrong.
That is a fascinatingly certain prediction. Give me numbers. How well does Versus do lifetime now? How well does it do lifetime if it's renamed to XV?
 

jcm

Member
Dec 8, 2008
5,102
0
0
They never have been large enough to matter. On PSP (the only platform meaningfully affected by this sort of distinction previously), there has never been a title whose performance via PSN was great enough to receive a press release or a positive note in a company's financials; never been a title whose later-revealed total shipment was so inexplicably large that only significant DD sales could explain the discrepancy; never been a title which reached one notable milestone (like, say, 3.5 million) in retail sales, but then was reported to reach another such milestone (say, 4 million) in a way that only PSN sales could account for. There's also never been any significant downward trend on retail sales of titles with PSN releases compared to titles without, as one would expect if any significant audience were substituting their purchase. For the purposes of PSP, assuming that digital sales are extant, non-zero, but small enough to not meaningfully alter analysis has always been the correct choice.

It's possible that this will change with the Vita, and we'll have to start forming new models for analyzing Vita software sales to take this into account... but until we get more info, carrying over our working model for PSP is the correct decision.
If it hadn't been specifically called out in the MC weekly release and the Sony PR I'd probably agree with you. Have MC and Sony Japan ever talked about digital sales before? The only previous time I can recall is Famitsu talking about P3P's sales.
 

TheNatural

My Member!
Jun 23, 2010
12,517
0
0
LOL so Sony made the cheaper one in shorter supplies? Shocker there, I kept saying this was exactly going to happen. It's going to be the same for the US launch. Prepare to pay $300 for a fucking handheld, lol. Oh, and no memory card, buy that too.
 

frankie_baby

Member
May 3, 2007
18,401
0
0
Just wait for the inevitable press release in a couple of months stating that customers preferred the 3g model by 2 to 1 and the WiFi model is gonna be discontinued as a result
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
0
If it hadn't been specifically called out in the MC weekly release and the Sony PR I'd probably agree with you. Have MC and Sony Japan ever talked about digital sales before?
No, I don't think they have, and that certainly is a tentative good sign.
 
Dec 18, 2004
1,611
1
1,295
a positive note in a company's financials;
I`m positive I:ve seen things like the *positive sales of download veirsons* in reports, I can go find them for you if you really want me to. Also We know that Ore No Shi sold more then 100,000(although that is an archive)

More Empirical evidence;
But really even though the psp go sold utterly horribly, do you think those 180,000 systems(which strangely enough goes back to 1% of psp total sales) never really brought that many games?
 

frankie_baby

Member
May 3, 2007
18,401
0
0
I`m positive I:ve seen things like the *positive sales of download veirsons* in reports, I can go find them for you if you really want me to. Also We know that Ore No Shi sold more then 100,000(although that is an archive)

More Empirical evidence;
But really even though the psp go sold utterly horribly, do you think those 180,000 systems(which strangely enough goes back to 10% of psp total sales) never really brought that many games?
1%
 
Dec 18, 2004
1,611
1
1,295
heh, woops,
Okay! I can:t do basic math! you win this round! I:ll come back for another topic at another time!

Might as well just throw out retailer reports;

they are all over the place! reports of psp Power pro baseball being sold out at wholesalers, yet some stores saying they haven:t sold a copy, Great sales of products at other places, only constant is Musou 2 doing about what was expected.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
22,885
0
865
29
theflyingthoughtsblog.wordpress.com
heh, woops,
Okay! I can:t do basic math! you win this round! I:ll come back for another topic at another time!

Might as well just throw out retailer reports;

they are all over the place! reports of psp Power pro baseball being sold out at wholesalers, yet some stores saying they haven:t sold a copy, Great sales of products at other places, only constant is Musou 2 doing about what was expected.
What about SD Gundam, Inazuma Strikers and the 3DS as a whole?
 

Kenka

Member
Feb 20, 2007
11,779
0
0
Switzerland
At this point, I should simply try to learn Japanese before next Wednesday :p

Of all the scenarii that have been thrown here, I think that PSP > Vita might be one of the most realistic one. I fomerly bet on 3DS = 3*Vita but since we "may laugh at it for years to come", a bummer is to be expected.


So, Vita could be around 100k-80k. Ouch if verified.
 

Cosmonaut X

Member
Jun 5, 2006
9,604
0
0
Scotland
In the case of 3DS software there are complaints for the sales of lower proflle titles since top 3 takes the air from everything else and the hopes now are that after dust goes down in January the increased userbase will start responding to these titles too.
Late to this one, but it would probably help if retailers actually displayed lower profile software - the reports on these threads seem to suggest that the "big three" are getting the lion's share of shelfspace.
 
[Nintex];33700474 said:
How would these stack up if you add GameCube/GBA LTD sales to Yamauchi instead of the numbers they were at when he stepped down? Since I consider those to be me more Yamauchi's systems than Iwata's. With that said Iwata did an amazing job, I recall someone on GAF posting in the early days saying that Iwata was a 'numbers man, a cruncher' and he certainly lived up that reputation.
Making it a clean generational split shoves a LOT of GBA and a little GCN over to Yamauchi. New split would be

WW: 365.8m Yamauchi, 245.04 Iwata
JP: 95.49m Yamauchi, 46.96 Iwata
NA: 176.62m Yamauchi, 100.76 Iwata
EU: 93.69m Yamauchi, 97.33m Iwata

It's interesting how people often look at Nintendo as making decisions based on Japan, but whatever they've been doing has led to more growth outside of Japan than within it.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Jun 7, 2004
23,295
25
1,660
www.dcharlie.com
It's possible that this will change with the Vita, and we'll have to start forming new models for analyzing Vita software sales to take this into account... but until we get more info, carrying over our working model for PSP is the correct decision.
yup - however, bear in mind we've just had a load of hoo haa about "Wait, UMD games don't work on PSV? I should have bought the download?!" coupled with a proper day and date release on EVERY game digitally and at prices that are designed to be lower than retail (if retailers don't price match with points).

This is the first machine where there -might- be a good number of downloads, but yes - until we get figures from publishers then all we are left to do is scream BOMBA at all the launch titles ;)

I'm personally upset about Power Smash - not in the top ten retail or download? Oh Japan, you Sega hating zealots! :D
 

[Nintex]

Member
Jun 21, 2005
18,889
5
1,410
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www.n1ntendo.nl
Making it a clean generational split shoves a LOT of GBA and a little GCN over to Yamauchi. New split would be

WW: 365.8m Yamauchi, 245.04 Iwata
JP: 95.49m Yamauchi, 46.96 Iwata
NA: 176.62m Yamauchi, 100.76 Iwata
EU: 93.69m Yamauchi, 97.33m Iwata

It's interesting how people often look at Nintendo as making decisions based on Japan, but whatever they've been doing has led to more growth outside of Japan than within it.
Interesting, I guess the growth in Europe had a lot to do with Iwata's early success. The gaming market really exploded with the PS2 and that continued rolling with the Wii and especially the DS. It seems to have stranded a bit these days however and it shows in the numbers.
 

Kazerei

Banned
Nov 25, 2010
12,123
1
0
Making it a clean generational split shoves a LOT of GBA and a little GCN over to Yamauchi. New split would be

WW: 365.8m Yamauchi, 245.04 Iwata
JP: 95.49m Yamauchi, 46.96 Iwata
NA: 176.62m Yamauchi, 100.76 Iwata
EU: 93.69m Yamauchi, 97.33m Iwata

It's interesting how people often look at Nintendo as making decisions based on Japan, but whatever they've been doing has led to more growth outside of Japan than within it.
What if you divide by the number of years in charge? For Iwata it's been close to 10 years, and Yamauchi ... well, the Famicom launched in 1983, but the NES didn't launch till 1985.
 

[Nintex]

Member
Jun 21, 2005
18,889
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If you just want a guess about something that would make us laugh for years to come, Wii & PS3 > Vita.

EDIT: Referring to the Kenka thing, rather than anything since my last post.
To be honest, I really can't tell what's going to sell anymore the gaming market is changing rapidly and all three markets(Europe, US and Japan) are heading in a different direction.