SenorArdilla
Member
Is this whole costume thing going to be Pikachu-exclusive? Just like him having the anime voice.
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Mega Metagross Confirmed In Corocoro (Pokemon)
- Thread starter StreetsAhead
- Start date
ArchedThunder
Banned
As far as we know, probably. It would be nice for it to extend to a few other Pokemon, at least Raichu.
Pokeblocks and contests were important for Milotic but they didn't keep them. They could easily find another way to evolve Sylveon. Customisation is something many people asked for years. And I'm not referring only to things like clothes or accessories but characteristics like the skin tone and the hair colour. On the other hand, Ami is a feature nobody asked for. It really surprised me they're keeping it.
ArchedThunder
Banned
No it isn't, tons of people wanted a way to interact with their Pokemon in a Tamagatchi like way, it was also very well received.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Someone missed out on Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Luke reigning on OU last year.
I won't argue about that but the problem isn't why they're keeping Amie but why they probably won't keep customisation.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
WTF? It wasn't at all, it was very divisive. Probably the most divisive element in the entire series. People either love it or hate it (I fall in the latter camp, because it was just so dull and underdeveloped).
AnkiRendan
Member
Except that Smogon's rules and tiers mean nothing except for those who abide by them. Mega Kang is pretty strong in both singles and doubles, but you can't say the same for Mega Lucario.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Mega Kangaskhan is strong, but in VGC she can still be taken out easy.
Not really, all I hear is people liking it or just wanting it to have more to it, I've not seen anyone say they actually hate it.
Beelzebufo
Banned
It was pretty well received overall I'm pretty sure, especially in more casual fan groups.
I guess. Just thought it would be cool.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
But there was a reason for that. Just because you don't follow their standards doesn't make it any less of a tremendous force. Mega Lucario was serious threat if anyone ran one because if you guessed Nasty Plot and he SDs, you just lost a couple of Pokemon to powerful Adaptability+STAB priority. There were so many viable offensive moves to choose from, you couldn't honestly guess what he was running. The unpredictability alone makes him a threat in every case.
Mega Gengar is an even worst case, and he proves GF were not careful with balancing Mega Pokemon. I honestly don't understand how you can think they are balanced.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Again, pay attention to VGC. GameFreak could give less than a single fuck about competitive singles, the official tournaments are all Doubles.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
Amie has good character animations, but other than that there's barely anything there except some uninspired minigames that grow old in 5 minutes and cupcake feeding which grows old even faster. Even the original Tamagotchi was more engaging and had more to it. Like I said, it was overall very underdeveloped and of unusually poor quality for this series, apart from the visual standpoint.
The upside of this is that GF has nowhere to go but up with it as they expand on it in future games like ORAS and beyond (though I was personally hoping it would be a one-off for XY and never come back after). Evolving Eevee into Sylveon was pretty torturous, I hope they limit it to just that one evo and don't make it mandatory for anything else. The dressed-up Pikachus look lovely, though.
The upside of this is that GF has nowhere to go but up with it as they expand on it in future games like ORAS and beyond (though I was personally hoping it would be a one-off for XY and never come back after). Evolving Eevee into Sylveon was pretty torturous, I hope they limit it to just that one evo and don't make it mandatory for anything else. The dressed-up Pikachus look lovely, though.
ArchedThunder
Banned
You can do it in like 5 minutes...
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
You know that's not true, and even if it was it would still be 5 minutes too many. I did not enjoy a single second of it and only did it to complete my dex.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
So? He's still broken when it comes to singles. GF still does balancing for the singles side. This doesn't justifies it.
ArchedThunder
Banned
It is true, you only need 2 hearts. The first heart usually comes right away and to get the second you just pet them for a bit, feed them then play with them for a game or two then feed them and pet them again. It literally takes very little time.
PreyingShark
Member
Yeah, they balance for Battle Spot Singles. Mega Lucario is nowhere to be found in the Top 12 usage there in any season which implies that in that format he's not considered broken. If he was truly broken in the official singles format then he would be used over the other mega evos seen in the Top 12.
Of course, he could easily be broken in 6v6 since I doubt Game Freak cares too much about that format.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Was there even a MegaLucario in Nationals?
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Usage doesn't equal versatility.
ArchedThunder
Banned
There was one on the stream and if I remember correctly he got OHKOd.
I have seen teams with the powerful Pokémon fail while teams with relative unknowns succeed. Balance is not just in stats, but in use.
I always go away from the generic powerful Pokémon that dominate the metagame, and yet I still win the vast majority of my battles. These battles aren't against beginning trainers, either. Explain that.
Come back when you've placed in a Tournament without using any of the 'generic powerful Pokemon'.
Edit: and not one of the battle spot tournaments either, a proper tournament event using VGC rules.
I have, and have messed many of the hardcore competitive players up with my strategies. Don't presume you know my standings.
ArchedThunder
Banned
When you can actually use an Audino in a high level team I think it's pretty balanced.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Stupid cuffs, colored sleeves, stupid ultra tight trousers, exposed and pumped up scarf, purple shoes, totally different eyes design.
Ask for super thick glasses next time you to the hospital
And again i don't think you know what identical means.
You're complaining more about the artstyle than the design (which is relatively the same).
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I have to agree with this. The design is basically the same, but the new art-style makes it so much worse.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Guess no game is balanced anymore
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It's probably quite fair to say that 6vs6 singles, the mode into which the majority of the fan-base is invested in, is not particularly well-balanced.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
It's probably quite fair to say that it is well-balanced.
Amazeballs
Member
Bullet Punch + Tough Claws, but no attack boosting moves. Basically a janky Scizor. I guess Metagross will be that much better at setting up screens.
Hyperactivity
Banned
That's highly circumstansial
I would say gen UU and 2 particular time periods in Gen 5 RU were the closest to perfectly balanced Pokemon has gotten, and post Latias/Salamence ban Gen 4 OU, Gen 5 UU, and Gen 3 OU were all close themselves
You're from the future, you don't count. :O
Winterfang
Banned
Does Metagross lose his Psychic type when he evolves?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
You notice the moment you start saying UU/OU, etc, you're using Smogon's tiers, indicating that the fan-base is the ones who have been attempting to do this, yes?
Amazeballs
Member
It trades off secondary Psychic typing for Rock.
Nah gamefreak wouldn't be that cruel.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I hope they introduce an ability eventually they makes said Pokemon immune to the trap attacks just to be a jerk.
I think Pokemon is more or less balanced it just requires strategizing and reassessing what team you should use for a situation. It's part of the fun I would think.
Of course if you have a Speedboosting substituting protecting Ninjask where it's difficult to kill the damn thing and only having a few avenues to counter it really irritates me sometimes. But there are ways around it.
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Smogon tier names are dumb. It will always be Banned,Top,High,Mid,Low,Bottom tier for me. Smogon tier names sound amazingly childish IMO.
I think Pokemon is more or less balanced it just requires strategizing and reassessing what team you should use for a situation. It's part of the fun I would think.
Of course if you have a Speedboosting substituting protecting Ninjask where it's difficult to kill the damn thing and only having a few avenues to counter it really irritates me sometimes. But there are ways around it.
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Smogon tier names are dumb. It will always be Banned,Top,High,Mid,Low,Bottom tier for me. Smogon tier names sound amazingly childish IMO.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Winterfang
Banned
Someone Pokemon like Delibird are just bad, and have no place in any team sadly. And that's coming from someone who's Gen 3 had Banette and soul dew in the same team.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Tell that to Shedinja.
Amazeballs
Member
On the subject of balancing, Pokemon is one of those games where the mechanics are self correcting like the DOTA clones and the original Guild Wars. In short, everything has a counter a la rock paper scissors, If the rock strategy becomes stronger or more frequently used players will be inclined to think up stronger paper strategies to counter rock. This is a simple illustration of a much deeper metagame.
Like Dota and Guild Wars, the variety of moves and pokemon create overlaps in similar strategies. If you've been following the scene since the RBY generation up till now you'll notice that tiers have been less about usability and more about how well pokemon perform compared to others within the same niche. In the current metagame Foretress is generally more useful than Claydoll as a spinner and since tiers are based in part off of usage Foretress will be naturally be of a higher tier. However that doesn't mean that Claydoll isn't usable within the same tier or that it doesn't have unique merits of its own (it's valuable ground typing for example).
People often base their perception of a healthy metagame off of disparity of perceived power between pokemon, but I think what matters is that there are variety of niches, and by extension playstyles, and variety within those niches (the variety of spinners for example). In a pure strategy game like Pokemon winning is only a small part of the fun, the majority of it is experimentation and that can only happen it the game provides players with a satisfying number of options. The current metagame does just that.
Like Dota and Guild Wars, the variety of moves and pokemon create overlaps in similar strategies. If you've been following the scene since the RBY generation up till now you'll notice that tiers have been less about usability and more about how well pokemon perform compared to others within the same niche. In the current metagame Foretress is generally more useful than Claydoll as a spinner and since tiers are based in part off of usage Foretress will be naturally be of a higher tier. However that doesn't mean that Claydoll isn't usable within the same tier or that it doesn't have unique merits of its own (it's valuable ground typing for example).
People often base their perception of a healthy metagame off of disparity of perceived power between pokemon, but I think what matters is that there are variety of niches, and by extension playstyles, and variety within those niches (the variety of spinners for example). In a pure strategy game like Pokemon winning is only a small part of the fun, the majority of it is experimentation and that can only happen it the game provides players with a satisfying number of options. The current metagame does just that.
HypnoDarkrai
Member
Care to reveal which tournaments?
I wish every Pokemon was competitively viable, but that's just not the reality. There's a reason so many people are running Kangaskhan, Talonflame and Aegislash at VGC this year. It's because you are almost always disadvantaged without those Pokemon. Sure, you might be able to beat the odd person here and there with a team full of 'generic strong Pokemon', but...in those cases I'd just say the person you were battling was a bad player. It's like when you come across someone with a team full of legendaries online...I always tear them apart. Using the stronger Pokemon isn't an instant win, but if two people are evenly matched in terms of knowledge and battling skill, the better team will win out every time (unless there is crazy luck involved).
Another thing you should consider is that you have the leg up in that scenario. If you have an unorthodox team, whoever you are battling is obviously going to be unsure of what your strategy is...unlike you who has a pretty good idea of what his Pokemon are capable of. So yeah, you might beat the first guy, but once your strategy is common knowledge it's very likely you're not going to have much more success.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
This is often true, but you'll find companies who rely on fan-bases to provide their competitive rulesets usually interact heavily with said fan-base; it's a joint work. When do you think was the last time Game Freak seriously consulted the fan-base about balancing issues relative to 6 vs. 6 singles?
Beelzebufo
Banned
That's why I loved contests so much. You could actually do something with your delibird or delkatty
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I have to disagree. Saying "Top Tier" and "High Tier" implies that "Top Tier" is better than "High Tier", for a particular conception of better. This is not, for the most part, how Smogon's tiers work. They aren't based on a conception of goodness or badness, but instead just based on usage. A Pokemon is Over-used if you would expect it to be seen in at least one in twenty battles. Once all Over-used Pokemon have been removed, a Pokemon is Under-used if you would expect it to be seen in at least one in twenty battles in the new environment that results from Over-used Pokemon being removed. Once all Over-used and Under-used Pokemon have been removed, a Pokemon is Rarely-used if you would expect to be seen in at least one in twenty battles in this new environment, and so on. In the extremely unlikely event that every player started using a Magikarp on their team, then Magikarp would become Over-used. That doesn't make Magikarp "Top Tier", as your system would describe.
I suppose you could rename the tiers as "Ban-List 1", "Frequency 1", Ban-List 2", "Frequency 2", "Ban-List 3", "Frequency 3", and so on, but OU/UU/RU/NU are, if somewhat clunky, rather traditional, and actually predate Smogon by some time. They go back to Azure Heights, which was the original competitive Pokemon community before Smogon reached the scene, and the terms thus date back to around 1998 when Pokemon Battle Simulator, the earliest PC Pokemon simulator, was released.
EDIT: Amazingly Azure Heights is actually still around. http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/ It's not been touched since 2004, though.