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[MagiusNecros]

I have to disagree. Saying "Top Tier" and "High Tier" implies that "Top Tier" is better than "High Tier", for a particular conception of better. This is not, for the most part, how Smogon's tiers work. They aren't based on a conception of goodness or badness, but instead just based on usage. A Pokemon is Over-used if you would expect it to be seen in at least one in twenty battles. Once all Over-used Pokemon have been removed, a Pokemon is Under-used if you would expect it to be seen in at least one in twenty battles in the new environment that results from Over-used Pokemon being removed. Once all Over-used and Under-used Pokemon have been removed, a Pokemon is Rarely-used if you would expect to be seen in at least one in twenty battles in this new environment, and so on. In the extremely unlikely event that every player started using a Magikarp on their team, then Magikarp would become Over-used. That doesn't make Magikarp "Top Tier", as your system would describe.

I suppose you could rename the tiers as "Ban-List 1", "Frequency 1", Ban-List 2", "Frequency 2", "Ban-List 3", "Frequency 3", and so on, but OU/UU/RU/NU are, if somewhat clunky, rather traditional, and actually predate Smogon by some time. They go back to Azure Heights, which was the original competitive Pokemon community before Smogon reached the scene, and the terms thus date back to around 1998 when Pokemon Battle Simulator, the earliest PC Pokemon simulator, was released.

So essentially there is no real tier list attributing how good or bad Pokemon are but is entirely based on how much it is used. Seems strange to me.

 

[Shengar]

Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites.

No, I can't win a game if I use Beedrill.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

So essentially there is no real tier list attributing how good or bad Pokemon are but is entirely based on how much it is used. Seems strange to me.

It's because there's no quantifiable metric of what "good" is. How good does a Pokemon have to be before we can put it in a given tier? How do we even measure what good is anyway? Sure, Bisharp is good? But is it better than Scizor good? Is that a meaningful comparison to even make? If tiers were based on goodness or badness, then it would just lead to an awful lot of arguing about whether a Pokemon should be in a given tier or not

Spoiler

kind of like the shitstorms over Suspect Tests now

. Under this system, there's a relatively neutral way of determining where something belongs

Spoiler

fuck Suspect Tests

.

 

[Amazeballs]

No, I can't win a game if I use Beedrill.

You can if you try.

 

[JoeM86]

Tell that to Shedinja.

Haha please. I could wall a team with Shedinja

 

[Exterminieren]

Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites.

Don't be absurd. If my favourites are Sunkern and Luvdisc, I'm shit out of luck, skill be damned.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Haha please. I could wall a team with Shedinja

Only if the person you are playing against is so diabolically shit they constructed their team without reference to Sandstorm, Hail, Spikes, Stealth Rocks, Toxic Spikes, any Ghost-type attacks, any Fire-type attacks, any Dark-type attacks, Perish Song, etc, etc.

 

[Kiraly]

What the fuck is that Pikachu dress-up? :lol

 

[JoeM86]

Only if the person you are playing against is so diabolically shit they constructed their team without reference to Sandstorm, Hail, Spikes, Stealth Rocks, Toxic Spikes, any Ghost-type attacks, any Fire-type attacks, any Dark-type attacks, Perish Song, etc, etc.

Perish Song yes. The rest? Please.

Care to reveal which tournaments?

I wish every Pokemon was competitively viable, but that's just not the reality. There's a reason so many people are running Kangaskhan, Talonflame and Aegislash at VGC this year. It's because you are almost always disadvantaged without those Pokemon. Sure, you might be able to beat the odd person here and there with a team full of 'generic strong Pokemon', but...in those cases I'd just say the person you were battling was a bad player. It's like when you come across someone with a team full of legendaries online...I always tear them apart. Using the stronger Pokemon isn't an instant win, but if two people are evenly matched in terms of knowledge and battling skill, the better team will win out every time (unless there is crazy luck involved).

Another thing you should consider is that you have the leg up in that scenario. If you have an unorthodox team, whoever you are battling is obviously going to be unsure of what your strategy is...unlike you who has a pretty good idea of what his Pokemon are capable of. So yeah, you might beat the first guy, but once your strategy is common knowledge it's very likely you're not going to have much more success.

Just side tournaments. I chose to not participate in Nationals. However, I have played against and defeated multiple trainers who have ranked high at Nationals.

However, what you're pointing out is the issue. Everyone's using the same team so everyone knows what to do. That's why using unique Pokémon/strategies is the way forward and shows the true balance of the game. If a person is just going to know counters to obvious threats, then they're not a good player.

 

[Mr-Joker]

Spoiler

Nah gamefreak wouldn't be that cruel.

I don't know, Game Freak were cruel to Flareon since gen 1.

Still though I do wish that Game Freak would fix some the Pokémon ability like why does Rotom air has Levitate or why does Stunfisk has Limber? It was pointless in gen 5 and even more useless in gen 6.

Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites.

Everyone sure loves that quote, not that there's anything wrong with it since I use Charizard in all my team despite his glaring 4x weakness to rock.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

It was only a matter of time. Castform next pls

Stunfisk pls.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Everyone sure loves that quote, not that there's anything wrong with it since I use Charizard in all my team despite his glaring 4x weakness to rock.

Not if you upgrade him to Megazard X!

Anyway, I never really minded much that some Pokemon are stronger than others. Things like Dunsparce really shouldn't be as strong as things like Gyarados, which only makes it better when people find out that a seemingly-useless Pokemon actually has a really strong strategy.

 

[Mr-Joker]

Not if you upgrade him to Megazard X!

Yeeeah, that isn't happing in a million years beside I threw away the Charizardite X, along with other Mega stone barring one which I traded away to another gaffer.

Also that would require finding a save spot to send Charizard out and mega form him, since well Mega aren't real Pokémon.

Anyway, I never really minded much that some Pokemon are stronger than others. Things like Dunsparce really shouldn't be as strong as things like Gyarados, which only makes it better when people find out that a seemingly-useless Pokemon actually has a really strong strategy.

Same, if all Pokémon had the same equal strength the game would get boring quick.

 

[JoeM86]

In essence, Mega Evolutions are a method of improving balance. There has been a noticeable power creep as generations past and Mega Evolutions help take old favourites up to be completely viable Pokémon in the new metagame, rather than viable if you know exactly what you're doing.

Many classic Pokémon also received a boost in stats this generation.

 

[DaBoss]

I love how if you have Mega Kangaskhan (who I think is broken as fuck), Aegislash, and/or Talonflame the rest of your Pokemon don't matter. That sort of logic is silly.

There are different ways of using those Pokemon, and the other Pokemon on the team.

And all this talk about 6v6 singles even though it isn't an officially supported format lol.

 

[Not75Drops]

So mega scoop next month.

Spoiler

Megas for every Hoenn Pokemon

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

So mega scoop next month.

Spoiler

Megas for every Hoenn Pokemon

My prophecy was true, we are getting Mega Luvdisc!

 

[Mr-Joker]

I bet you that next month Mega form scoop will be about Mega Latios/Latias, since they still haven't be revealed.

Not that I will know or care since I will be hiding in my bunker when this news drop.

My prophecy was true, we are getting Mega Luvdisc!

Ah I kid I kid, ah.

 

[SuperSah]

So all it does is float, but looks the same?

It's alright.

 

[Qurupeke]

So mega scoop next month.

Spoiler

Megas for every Hoenn Pokemon

Milotic, Camerupt, Sharpedo and Salamence.

 

[-Horizon-]

Ah I kid I kid, ah.

Haha

 

[Loco4Coco]

I guess people haven't seen that one vid of a dude sweeping a team of basically legendaries with a Caterpie.

 

[Not75Drops]

I guess people haven't seen that one vid of a dude sweeping a team of basically legendaries with a Caterpie.

Is that the guy who people think fakes a lot of his sweeps?

 

[Avixph]

I guess people haven't seen that one vid of a dude sweeping a team of basically legendaries with a Caterpie.

Link please.

 

[Toxi]

I guess people haven't seen that one vid of a dude sweeping a team of basically legendaries with a Caterpie.

When your opponent lacks a brain and you have baton pass, anything is possible.

Link please.

Not a team of legendaries, but it's the sort of strategy one would use.

 

[Loco4Coco]

Link please.

Gen5 Sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PYoUWTx1Ak

Gen6 Sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S11HdTgR4gM

Edit: I remember more legendaries though. And for the authenticity of these sweeps I am not sure but it's impressive.

 

[RagnarokX]

Gen5 Sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PYoUWTx1Ak

Gen6 Sweep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S11HdTgR4gM

Edit: I remember more legendaries though. And for the authenticity of these sweeps I am not sure but it's impressive.

Of course you can do it. But setting it up is unfeasible. In those battles the opponent purposefully let them set up. In a real battle his setup pokemon would have been lucky to last 2 turns.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

When your opponent lacks a brain and you have baton pass, anything is possible.

Yea. That's why I don't buy some of the arguments of some super unique strategy happening because any skilled player wouldn't let you get away with them unless its viable in some situations, then you are done for (like BP teams vs stall).

There are some Pokemon that do have a niche strategy, but are really, really solid. Like, Destiny Bond Mega Banette can help with taking down set up sweepers or huge threats to your team and is really good in ubers.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites.

You still fucking disgust me whenever you use that quote.

Seriously that's some vile shit. Diabetes in text form.

 

[Macka]

Not a team of legendaries, but it's the sort of strategy one would use.[/URL]

I'm going to call bullshit on the video. The Carbink uses Reflect twice at the end there when it could have used Dazzling Gleam and murdered the Caterpie. It also sets up a Light Screen when Caterpie was clearly only using Bug Bite. It's either a fake video, or the person he was battling sucks at the game.

 

[RagnarokX]

I'm going to call bullshit on the video. The Carbink uses Reflect twice at the end there when it could have used Dazzling Gleam and murdered the Caterpie. It also sets up a Light Screen when Caterpie was clearly only using Bug Bite. It's either a fake video, or the person he was battling sucks at the game.

To be fair, the uploader makes no assertion that the video represents a real battle.

The video description:

Uploaded on Jun 11, 2011

Lmfao this is a novelty battle for your entertainment!
Want to see your fav pokemon sweep? Leave a comment!

Please note that these take multiple attempts and are gimmick sets in nature. They can be only pulled of against inexperienced people.This is no way Insulting them but just a JOKE to see a very underused or never used pokemon. Alot of the sets you see will not suffice In a real battle situation and are merely to play the role to accomplish the sweep. Baton passing can be very easily beaten by many different methods. Some of these include taunt, torment, roar, whirlwind,any kind of entry hazard such as toxic spikes, spikes, stealth rock. Priority moves such as bullet punch, mach punch, shadow sneak, ice shard, aqua jet and quick attack. Also having a sp def/def wall and a bit of common sense not to let your opponent set up!
Lastly they are for the sole purpose of entertainment and a few laughs and you may pick up a set / strategy you may like.

Things to consider / Tips If you want to try this:
Bug bite beats arcues, It must be the end of the world.

 

[dakkumauji]

Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites.

I like your style. You understand what's important. Go on — — the Champion is waiting.

 

[Toxi]

Yea. That's why I don't buy some of the arguments of some super unique strategy happening because any skilled player wouldn't let you get away with them unless its viable in some situations, then you are done for (like BP teams vs stall).

There are some Pokemon that do have a niche strategy, but are really, really solid. Like, Destiny Bond Mega Banette can help with taking down set up sweepers or huge threats to your team and is really good in ubers.

You basically explained why Baton Pass teams usually don't work. They're gimmicky strategies based on your opponent not realizing what you're doing. "Oh look a Smeargle/Scolipede, I wonder if I should bring out my Taunt user." The ones that do work have ways to win outside of Baton Pass.

There's nothing more annoying than Baton Pass teams fishing on Pokemon Online and immediately rage quitting when you don't let them play out because you have a brain larger than a peanut.

 

[MegaMelon]

Whilst not directly related, I started a #BringJirachiOver ta and image on Twitter to hopefully get the Shiny Jirachi Event in different countries and regions. Learning about Tanabata would be great for all the kids who play pokemon so it's got a chance of working. Speaking of Jirachi, could we see a mega jirachi in the scoop next month? We have a mega diancie so it's not like they're against giving megas to event pokemon.

 

[RagnarokX]

You basically explained why Baton Pass teams usually don't work. They're gimmicky strategies based on your opponent not realizing what you're doing. "Oh look a Smeargle/Scolipede, I wonder if I should bring out my Taunt user." The ones that do work have ways to win outside of Baton Pass.

There's nothing more annoying than Baton Pass teams fishing on Pokemon Online and immediately rage quitting when you don't let them play out because you have a brain larger than a peanut.

Smogon actually just recently decided that baton pass is too OP and limited its use to one pokemon per team: https://www.facebook.com/SmogonU/posts/10152532681937390

 

[Regiruler]

The internet has proven that if you say something enough times, it will eventually happen.

Mega Regigigas with Clear Body.
And buff Clear Body to prevent stat reduction from status ailments and self-infliction.

 

[Toxi]

Smogon actually just recently decided that baton pass is too OP and limited its use to one pokemon per team: https://www.facebook.com/SmogonU/posts/10152532681937390

I was one of the people that disagreed with that decision.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I also disagreed. Toxi, who is your alt?

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Smogon actually just recently decided that baton pass is too OP and limited its use to one pokemon per team: https://www.facebook.com/SmogonU/posts/10152532681937390

I remember the huge thread on it before they made the vote. The people for the ban said that it forced them to run certain Pokemon to stop BP teams like Thunders or Unaware Pokes. If you didn't run some counter, you would have a bad time or will just sit there getting set up on. The people who defended it put up terrible arguments, though.

I have mixed opinions on it, though. They bothered me when I tried to do different teams I am new to, but they were easy wins with any team I am comfortable with.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I still struggle to understand the problem with it. The process for dealing with it was so simple, you just used a fast Taunter. The only troublesome part of it was Espeons.

 

[JoeM86]

I still struggle to understand the problem with it. The process for dealing with it was so simple, you just used a fast Taunter. The only troublesome part of it was Espeons.

Or you just kick the crap out of whatever it passes to when it passes. That's what I do. Simple

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Or you just kick the crap out of whatever it passes to when it passes. That's what I do. Simple

That's because you're not playing anyone good, the consistent hypothesis I draw from all your posts.

 

[JoeM86]

That's because you're not playing anyone good, the consistent hypothesis I draw from all your posts.

Haha, please.

 

[Bulbasaur]

Haha please. I could wall a team with Shedinja

Maybe. My Zoroark shedinja combo has won me more battles than if use generic uber teams. And it's a hell of a lot more fun too.

 

[JoeM86]

Maybe. My Zoroark shedinja combo has won me more battles than if use generic uber teams. And it's a hell of a lot more fun too.

Exactly. It all depends on how you use it. You can do amazing things with the most bizarre Pokémon.

 

[Zubz]

I bet you that next month Mega form scoop will be about Mega Latios/Latias, since they still haven't be revealed.

Not that I will know or care since I will be hiding in my bunker when this news drop.

Ah I kid I kid, ah.

Still bitter about Alomomola and Emolga not being evolutions for Luvdisc and Pachirisu; they look the same but with a slight twist, and the latter two could really have used evolutions. I was simultaneously shocked and disappointed when I looked up how the supposed evolution occurred, only to find that it wasn't a thing at all.

And cripes. Forgot Mega Lati(a/o)s were never made official. I was hoping for, like, Mega Flygon and a few other Megas that'd look cool and play cool competitively, but we're totally getting them, aren't we? The designs found in X/Y better be placeholders, because they look terrible.

EDIT: And don't they have the same ability a normal Lati(a/o)s, too? They're gonna have to have a game changing move to sell them to me. At least the Primal Devolutions are still cool!