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[Bel Marduk]

I bought a gun today. I don't have any concrete plans yet, but it feels oddly calming knowing that I have a quick and easy method for when the time comes.

I found one in the house. The lady who lived here before died and I was looking through an old chest of drawers. It was apparently from the 60s and had since been made illegal.. who knows if it even still works. Haven't tried firing it with a bullet actually in it.

I've got pretty extreme fluctuations in moods, too. Probably should throw it away.

You should, too.

 

[Piano]

I still don't know what to do, what will help me, and no one seems to understand what I'm asking.

I need to figure out what I need before I can begin looking for it in the area.

It sounds as though you could benefit from either a therapist, a psychiatrist, or both. I'm not sure how to spell it out any clearer than that. If you need help finding those that's a different question. Luckily there are many resources for finding them.

No, in the context of therapy.

What did therapy do to you that it helped?

Much of what I said applies to therapy generally, too. It helps me understand myself, process my life and develop methods of pain relief.

Through therapy I've learned that traveling gives me panic attacks because it means I have to let go of my seemingly fragile grip on the things that keep me going and keep me from giving up, leaving me feeling alone, abandoned and disconnected. Through therapy I've learned about how my family dynamic growing up led me to suppress my feelings and how miserable that makes me. Through therapy I've realized how much anger I have and how I work so hard to contain that anger that I end up just pointing it all at myself, hating myself and losing my will to live. And with all of these things, now that I'm aware of them, where they came from and how they work I've begun to unwind them and remedy them. I've gotten much better at coping with travel and change. I've developed better ways of letting out my emotions. I've learned how to feel my anger rather than shove it down. Et cetera.

I've also learned good methods of pain relief for the nights when the emptiness of the universe is crushing my soul.

That is just a small sampling of the things I've learned in therapy. Most of that is from the past nine months.

How will you know if the person you're seeing is good or bad?

Maybe someone else can add more, but to me there are two halves to a therapist being good for me.

Do you get along? A therapist needs to make you feel comfortable and not judged, able to talk about anything and everything. That being said there will need to be effort on your part to open up because there are some things that will never be comfortable to talk about.

Does the therapist help you learn things you don't already know? I had a therapist for a while that didn't really tell me anything (except some very useful stuff about my relationship with my sibling) but I sat tight because it was easy enough to just lie to her and gloss over things. Again, you're going to have to put in some effort to open up and be honest. I've found that I also need to resist overblowing things and being hyperbolic. The therapist only knows what you tell him/her, so it's in your best interest to be clear and honest.

With a psychiatrist it's a little different since they're just medication, but you still need to feel like they're taking the time to listen and understand instead of mindlessly writing prescriptions.

How are you even getting into relationships in the first place with your issues? You're not allowed to date until you've worked on yourself or whatever first so it's weird that you're doing things out of order. Weirder that it worked out. That's another discussion though.

I'm not allowed to? What? By whose judgment?

Through therapy I've found ways to be more open and upfront about my issues so potential friends / girlfriends know what they're getting into. I've also gotten much better with being clear and specific about what I need instead of dumping my problems on people thoughtlessly.

So yeah, it doesn't work for everyone but I've figured out how to make it work okay.

I hate to come off as potentially rude, especially because you've been sooo patient and well-meaning, but it wasn't. I have all the same questions as before plus more now. I can't keep asking a stranger to dedicate this much time to me for nothing either so I think it's best if you just ignored me from now on. Like, don't feel obligated to answer any of the questions in this post- consider them me thinking out loud.

You're not forcing me to do anything. I am answering out of my own free will because I care and I want to see you (and everyone else in this thread) get good treatment and (hopefully) get better.

I wouldn't worry about being rude, but I appreciate you being direct so I'll be direct as well: I do feel that you are being almost purposefully obtuse with some of the things you claim not to understand after I (and others) have spelled out very clearly. It can come across like you're in denial of there being a next step rather than not understanding what it is.

But I could just be misunderstanding, and either way I'm here to be a support as much as my upcoming finals will permit.

<3

 

[Piano]

I hate how draining this shit is. In my mid-twenties I'm supposed to be at the prime of my life, yet instead I always have little to no energy and I tire easily. Physically I feel as weak as a fucking twelve year old, and mentally everything just seems like a haze. That's not to say I absolutely always feel like that 24/7; I am able to faux-motivate myself at times, but the problem is that feeling usually doesn't last long. I just wish there was a way to harness that feeling and allow it to be somewhat permanent. Sometimes I think maybe I'm just testosterone deficient and just need a shot of it to help reinvigorate me enough to break the whole cycle.

Have you consulted a doctor about your low energy? There are a bevy of reasons why one could have abnormally low energy and motivation. I'm not familiar with most of them as I'm a lowly art student.

Most of you would laugh at me or look down at me for what is making me depressed right now.

It sounds as though you're projecting onto others judgment of yourself and then torturing yourself about it. I know it's very tempting but you have to understand its conjectural - I have no intention of looking down on you for suffering, no matter the cause, and I think a lot of us here could attest that we've been brought down by some really trivial stuff.

i can barEly make it through work on an easy day. I feel so useless, I need someone, and I don't want just anyone. The only thing I want to do is die, I tried everything else that I could do. There isn't any help, I'd just live longer with some fucking stronger imagination that I could repair as I grow older. I'm twenty-five soon, and I can't endure the daily shame. My short, worthless body that doesn't attract, and my intelligence that is retarded is retarded.
I can't keep cutting myself to try and endure, part of me loves myself, and so I want to be inanimate like the teddy bear I hugged.
how do you continue to be tough when your body fails and you don't enjoy anything and everything starts a hope that only ends reminding you of your inadequacy?
every human being looks at me like an idiot or an enemy, and I'm supposed to think I have a choice?
how do I network here in this place?
I want to hurt myself and make everyone look even though I love them that is the end result.
How much longer can I keep living.
no one should care, it's my failing.

I am sorry that you are suffering. Have you considered seeing a therapist?
Please let me or others in the thread know if there's anything we can do, even just reading or listening.

I'm the same way, in a way, I hurt myself because, other than my younger brother, it's the only thing I enjoy. I hate myself, I'm a handsome guy, girls look at me, I know this. However, I just hate myself too much to even have any confidence to approach anybody and talk to them. I was at a club tonight and I couldn't bring myself to approach anybody. It's mainly due to the fact that I feel absolutely worthless and I hate how stupid I feel I am. I thought my depression was due to school earlier last year but I'm now realizing, or at least admitting now, that I just hate myself. All I want is someone to love me intimately but I can't get anybody. Why should I like myself if other people don't like me?

I'm a little drunk so pardon any grammar mistakes I may have made in this post.

Hating yourself is something you can slowly, but surely, work through with the right resources. Are you seeing a therapist?

Also, have you been isolated recently? Isolation can make me feel a lot of things, none of them good, and one of them is magnifying how much I hate myself. Without any feedback from the outside world I feel totally worthless.

I still hate myself on some level but not as much as I used to, thankfully...

My therapy is slowly progressing, but I have hit some bumps last week.

Being indoors for 10 days straight, without being able to watch TV or computer screen, or go out for a walk, managed to brought unpleasant memories back. But I try to stick to the procedure as much as I can. Some days are much better than others. At least eyesight is almost back to normal, light is still very distractive

for guys, that have trouble to go to sleep and are not taking other medications - did you try Valerian (Baldrian) herb? My sister managed to get her insomnia (caused by too much stress) in check with this.

10 days straight indoors sounds extremely tough. I admire that you've been able to keep your head on your shoulders through such a long period of isolation. I'm sorry I'm not familiar with what's going on - will you be able to go outside more soon?

Also, I've never tried Valerian root but I've heard it works. Chamomille tea (like the brand SleepyTime) works very well for me.

I bought a gun today. I don't have any concrete plans yet, but it feels oddly calming knowing that I have a quick and easy method for when the time comes.

Please tell someone you have the gun and take steps to get rid of it.
If you are currently feeling suicidal, please go to a local ER or call the national suicide hotline (1-800-SUICIDE) immediately.

<3

 

[DrM]

10 days straight indoors sounds extremely tough. I admire that you've been able to keep your head on your shoulders through such a long period of isolation. I'm sorry I'm not familiar with what's going on - will you be able to go outside more soon?

Also, I've never tried Valerian root but I've heard it works. Chamomille tea (like the brand SleepyTime) works very well for me.

I had my right eye operated, but now it is better and yesterday I started with short (3 km) walks every evening, when sun sets down,just because my eye is still sensitive to bright light.

It was hard as hell to endure 10 days indoors in the nicest weather so far this year around here. Audiobooks and radio really helped me. And one call from my therapist day after surgery, when I was in great pain.

 

[grap3fruitman]

It sounds as though you could benefit from either a therapist, a psychiatrist, or both. I'm not sure how to spell it out any clearer than that.

I fail to understand how either would fix my situation. One just talks and the other picks up a dart and throws it at a target board made up of prescriptions. How does that help? I want actual help, not to just "cope with things."

I'm not allowed to? What? By whose judgment?

Every time I've tried asking questions in the GAF dating threads I get told I can't date until I "work on myself." That's another one that people keep repeating but won't explain. I just gave up on that thread... after like 6/7 years of going nowhere.

I do feel that you are being almost purposefully obtuse with some of the things you claim not to understand after I (and others) have spelled out very clearly. It can come across like you're in denial of there being a next step rather than not understanding what it is.

I'm not being "purposefully obtuse," I just don't know this well enough to ask the right questions. Like, I asked you how therapy helped but instead you told me what happened after therapy. How should I worded that to be clearer?

 

[Vaudeville Villain]

Hating yourself is something you can slowly, but surely, work through with the right resources. Are you seeing a therapist?

Also, have you been isolated recently? Isolation can make me feel a lot of things, none of them good, and one of them is magnifying how much I hate myself. Without any feedback from the outside world I feel totally worthless.

I still hate myself on some level but not as much as I used to, thankfully...

I am not seeing a therapist, I never thought I needed it, but I'm thinking now that I may need one. I cannot get over how much I hate myself, I see nothing good.

And yes, I have been sort of isolated recently, outside of school and a weekly get together with my younger brother (only good thing in my life is my younger brother, i swear), I stay at home studying and playing games. I tried going out last night with my friends (I don't even know where to begin with them) and the night made a terrible turn due to my self loathing. Couldn't talk to girls or dance with them because of all of the above. When I tried, I was shot down, which just reinforced everything.

Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm trying to keep my post focused on the topic.

 

[Necromanti]

I fail to understand how either would fix my situation. One just talks and the other picks up a dart and throws it at a target board made up of prescriptions. How does that help? I want actual help, not to just "cope with things.

Well, the first monumental obstacle to getting the help you say you want that you first need to overcome is your stubbornness. You haven't made an attempt to see either kind of therapist and you're already dismissing it. Humor it. Give it a chance. How else would you expect things to change otherwise?

 

[Piano]

I fail to understand how either would fix my situation. One just talks and the other picks up a dart and throws it at a target board made up of prescriptions. How does that help? I want actual help, not to just "cope with things."

You're missing the forest for the trees here. Most problems and struggles between and within human beings are solved by "just" talking at some point or another. Talking is the only way we have of communicating our feelings and then, perhaps, also communicating knowledge and understanding relating to them. It's tremendously important. I feel like a similar argument would be "what's the point of posting of using a computer, it's just pixels of light in various arrangements." Yes, that is literally true, but that completely ignores the meaning, function, impact, etc of what those pixels can communicate to us. I've read one or two books that have had a deep impact on me, even though they're "just" ink on paper.

To reduce the entire profession of psychiatry to throwing darts is to sell it excessively short. I have no reservations in asserting that medication has saved my life. Full stop. I would have killed myself, absolutely, at two specific points in my life, had it not been for my medication.

So one of them (therapy) is understanding why you feel the way you feel so you can (hopefully) change it and the other (psychiatry) is medication that lessens your symptoms and, therefore, your suffering. How can help be any more direct than that, short of someone reaching in and rewiring your brain?

Though that's almost what psychiatric medication is. It is literally pills that make you feel differently. You feel bad, the pills are there to change that. It is almost as direct as treatment can get.

Every time I've tried asking questions in the GAF dating threads I get told I can't date until I "work on myself." That's another one that people keep repeating but won't explain. I just gave up on that thread... after like 6/7 years of going nowhere.

Personally, I stopped asking GAF for specific dating advice after they dogpiled me in a thread about how my girlfriend was cheating on me etc etc (she wasn't). It's people on a message board, not relationship experts.

That being said, there is some validity in the general sentiment they were getting at, which is that:
(a) Manic pixie dream girls don't exist, so you can't date around hoping to find someone that will fix all of your problems. Yes, a girlfriend can balance you out and help you and be a close confidant, just as a friend can, but they cannot be your only source of stability. I spent years looking for a manic pixie dream girl (without realizing it) and didn't find her.
(b) Few potential partners are going to be into dating someone who is suffering horribly and is not working to try to change that, as in, nobody can withstand being a dumping ground for all of another person's problems.
I have found both of these to be (painfully) true, but again, that's just my experience, I'm not an expert. Everyone is different.

My longest girlfriend, whom I dated for 2.5 years, actually broke things off with me a few months in because I was a total mess. I was suffering horribly from debilitating anxiety and took it out on her by being hyper critical and outright nasty sometimes. She only took the chance of getting back with me once I was in treatment and on anti-anxiety medication and she could see that my outlook had changed. Since then I've had a few decently successful dating ventures (I guess) that have worked because I've been upfront about my problems and able, with the skills I learned in therapy, to not let them all pile onto the girl I was dating. The difference between, when I'm super anxious, projecting that anxiety onto the other person and vilifying them for it and being able to calmly tell them "I'm very anxious, here are some of the things I'm irrationally worrying about." Again, this is a skill I learned in therapy.

We all wish (at least I do) that someone could just traipse along to have the magical answers to fix all of our problems and we'd be happy forever together but I've (painfully) found that that isn't the case. We're all people. I couldn't be someone's sole dumping ground for all of their problems - especially if they took them out on me with anger - for very long so I shouldn't expect someone else to be able to.

I'm not being "purposefully obtuse," I just don't know this well enough to ask the right questions. Like, I asked you how therapy helped but instead you told me what happened after therapy. How should I worded that to be clearer?

I very specifically spoke about what happened in therapy in this post. Yes, it was tied in with the context of my bad breakup six years ago but there are at least 200 words there about what, specifically, the therapist did to help. Every appointment with my therapist is spent talking, during which time I am soothed by having someone nonjudgmentally listen to be ramble about my stupid garbage problems and tell me they're not stupid garbage. Then that person, over time, also talks, showing me new ways of thinking about my problems, drawing connections between things I hadn't considered related, noting patterns in the things I talk about, offering specific pointers on how to alleviate my suffering and nightly existential anxiety, and so on. Sometimes, if I feel I'm not getting enough feedback from my therapist I'll specifically ask him questions.

When it comes down to it, I'm just some guy on a message board. I don't know what therapy would be like for you. But you've got nothing to lose in trying it so I really do hope you give it a shot.

Humor it. Give it a chance. How else would you expect things to change otherwise?

Bingo!

<3

 

[Piano]

I had my right eye operated, but now it is better and yesterday I started with short (3 km) walks every evening, when sun sets down,just because my eye is still sensitive to bright light.

It was hard as hell to endure 10 days indoors in the nicest weather so far this year around here. Audiobooks and radio really helped me. And one call from my therapist day after surgery, when I was in great pain.

I'm so sorry for your suffering but I'm glad (it sounds as though) things went (relatively) smoothly with the operation. I hope things continue to look up as you reintegrate with a more connected lifestyle in the next days and weeks

I am not seeing a therapist, I never thought I needed it, but I'm thinking now that I may need one. I cannot get over how much I hate myself, I see nothing good.

And yes, I have been sort of isolated recently, outside of school and a weekly get together with my younger brother (only good thing in my life is my younger brother, i swear), I stay at home studying and playing games. I tried going out last night with my friends (I don't even know where to begin with them) and the night made a terrible turn due to my self loathing. Couldn't talk to girls or dance with them because of all of the above. When I tried, I was shot down, which just reinforced everything.

Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm trying to keep my post focused on the topic.

You're not rambling, no worries.

As I said, isolation, for me, made me hate myself a lot more, and it was also a difficult situation to climb out of once I was in it. It's inevitable that the social experiences that slowly lead out of isolation are a bit uncomfortable and unpleasant until you're able to rebuild a sense of connection to those around you and find a way to feel comfortable in social situations again. At the worst of my isolated period - during which I had literally no friends in town - I had sincerely lost the ability to stay open to group situations. I shut myself off reflexively as a defense mechanism and then, as a consequence, felt horribly disconnected. The only option left was to force it and that ... just doesn't work.

I think going to see a therapist would be a wonderful help, both with climbing out of your isolation and unpacking why you hate yourself so much. I strongly encourage you to look into it!

It sounds as though you're not enthused with the friends you spent time with. Do you have any friends or family, even far away, that you do feel connected to and comfortable around?

<3

 

[jb1234]

Piano's a good dude.

 

[Bagels]

I bought a gun today. I don't have any concrete plans yet, but it feels oddly calming knowing that I have a quick and easy method for when the time comes.

Please get rid of it. Now.

 

[trab pu kcip]

ok, here it goes... I don't know if someone can help me with this issue but if you have any experience with treating alcoholism/ helping people with alcoholism it would be really helpful if you had any advice because I don't know where else to turn.
I have someone close to me who I think has a serious drinking problem. I have adressed it on several occasions now, but immediately got a very defensive response in any case.
like: "I don't have a problem!" "This is annoying me, I drink whenever I want!" "nobody else thinks I have a problem" "I got it under control!"..etc.
They really do drink regularly though...every weekend is a given, doesn't matter if home alone or when going out. somedays even on normal weekdays. there's always at least one new empty bottle of wine in the room when I visit them, if not a new full one to be ready for next friday. I've never experienced one full week without the person drinking/being drunk at least one day. these were signs for me that something wasn't quite right and correct me if I'm wrong but in my opinion I was spot-on.
I know some of this shit from some of my family members and it's really stressful for me to see someone I care about undergoing this same process. even more so since all my worries were dismissed completely. I feel like talking against a brick wall. And I don't know what to do. it has gotten to the point where I can't take being around the person in a totally trashed state every time we do something anymore. it's so frustrating, like telling someone who is wearing a blue shirt "you're wearing a blue shirt" and against all better judgement and reason they just decide to say "no. I'm not"

any suggestions how I could get through?
is there anything I could do to support the person?
or should I just let it go? :/

 

[kamineko]

ok, here it goes... I don't know if someone can help me with this issue but if you have any experience with treating alcoholism/ helping people with alcoholism it would be really helpful if you had any advice because I don't know where else to turn.
I have someone close to me who I think has a serious drinking problem. I have adressed it on several occasions now, but immediately got a very defensive response in any case.
like: "I don't have a problem!" "This is annoying me, I drink whenever I want!" "nobody else thinks I have a problem"...etc.
They really do drink regularly though...every weekend is a given, doesn't matter if home alone or when going out. somedays even on normal weekdays. there's always at least one new empty bottle of wine in the room when I visit them, if not a new full one to be ready for next friday. I've never experienced one full week without the person drinking/being drunk at least one day. these were signs for me that something wasn't quite right and correct me if I'm wrong but in my opinion I was spot-on.
I know some of this shit from some of my family members and it's really stressful for me to see someone I care about undergoing this same process. even more so since all my worries were dismissed completely. I feel like talking against a brick wall. And I don't know what to do. it has gotten to the point where I can't take being around the person in a totally trashed state every time we do something anymore. it's so frustrating, like telling someone who is wearing a blue shirt "you're wearing a blue shirt" and against all better judgement and reason they just decide to say "no. I'm not"

any suggestions how I could get through?
is there anything I could do to support the person?
or should I just let it go? :/

Well. I wouldn't stop drinking for a woman I loved more than anything. I kept meaning to, I kept being about to, but in the end I wouldn't do it. I still miss her, sometimes, even after three years.

I don't believe there is anything a person can say to a real alcoholic that would bring about change. What must eventually happen is that the alcoholic life must become too painful to continue. You would be amazed at just how much pain it takes for most. It's a hard way to live, and alcoholics can absorb a lot of misery.

The best thing anyone can do is refuse to accept behavior that is unacceptable. Friends and family of alcoholics often try to adjust to the alcoholic's warped version of "normal," many becoming sick themselves during the process.

If things have truly come to a decision point for you (sounds like maybe this has not yet happened), stress that you would do anything to help him, but that it is becoming too painful to watch him deteriorate. Focus on the things you absolutely would do. Check up on him from time to time to re-extend the offer of assistance.

Most important, though, is to take care of yourself and your feelings. Active alcoholics and drug addicts can really suck the life out of you. Don't put yourself through that.

 

[trab pu kcip]

Well. I wouldn't stop drinking for a woman I loved more than anything. I kept meaning to, I kept being about to, but in the end I wouldn't do it. I still miss her, sometimes, even after three years.

I don't believe there is anything a person can say to a real alcoholic that would bring about change. What must eventually happen is that the alcoholic life must become too painful to continue. You would be amazed at just how much pain it takes for most. It's a hard way to live, and alcoholics can absorb a lot of misery.

The best thing anyone can do is refuse to accept behavior that is unacceptable. Friends and family of alcoholics often try to adjust to the alcoholic's warped version of "normal," many becoming sick themselves during the process.

If things have truly come to a decision point for you (sounds like maybe this has not yet happened), stress that you would do anything to help him, but that it is becoming too painful to watch him deteriorate. Focus on the things you absolutely would do. Check up on him from time to time to re-extend the offer of assistance.

Most important, though, is to take care of yourself and your feelings. Active alcoholics and drug addicts can really suck the life out of you. Don't put yourself through that.

thanks for your honesty. not quite what I wanted to hear but I was somehow expecting that. but do you think it may be a little different since they don't seem to have realized their problem yet? maybe if they would just accept it, there is some hope left? I mean I defnitely know it's a serious problem but I'm not quite sure in what "stage" they're in right now, or in other terms: how progressed it is and if it still can be stopped from growing maybe. but that could just be what I want to believe.

but yeah I will defnitely take care of my own feelings, I'm already struggling so that's important advice, thank you!

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Piano's a good dude.

You're just saying that because you love to play one~

 

[jb1234]

You're just saying that because you love to play one~

Are you suggesting that I'm hitting on him? Because I would never do that. NEVER, EVER.

 

[kamineko]

thanks for your honesty. not quite what I wanted to hear but I was somehow expecting that. but do you think it may be a little different since they don't seem to have realized their problem yet? maybe if they would just accept it, there is some hope left? I mean I defnitely know it's a serious problem but I'm not quite sure in what "stage" they're in right now, or in other terms: how progressed it is and if it still can be stopped from growing maybe. but that could just be what I want to believe.

but yeah I will defnitely take care of my own feelings, I'm already struggling so that's important advice, thank you!

I still believe pain is the primary agent of change. Perhaps, if he is not yet too sick, something relatively minor might get his attention. A DUI, for instance (no innocents harmed, of course). Everybody has their breaking point(s), and they vary from person to person. In AA, it was fairly common to see new people come in the door with hair-raising problems, all caused by alcohol. It would seem clear that, given the circumstances, they would have "learned their lesson" and never drink again. Within a week, some would be drunk. Others seemed ready to change over far less significant consequences. Perhaps your friend will be one of those fortunates.

That would be my wish for you and your friend, in any case.

 

[trab pu kcip]

I still believe pain is the primary agent of change. Perhaps, if he is not yet too sick, something relatively minor might get his attention. A DUI, for instance (no innocents harmed, of course). Everybody has their breaking point(s), and they vary from person to person. In AA, it was fairly common to see new people come in the door with hair-raising problems, all caused by alcohol. It would seem clear that, given the circumstances, they would have "learned their lesson" and never drink again. Within a week, some would be drunk. Others seemed ready to change over far less significant consequences. Perhaps your friend will be one of those fortunates.

That would be my wish for you and your friend, in any case.

I see, that makes sense. I always assumed that me being shaken and affected by their condition would maybe be "enough pain" to make them realize but I guess that's not how it works or maybe they decided to simply ignore/suppress that fact as well.

anyway, thank you very much, I wish you all the strength in the world to endure your own struggle with this damn issue. :/

 

[Vaudeville Villain]

You're not rambling, no worries.

As I said, isolation, for me, made me hate myself a lot more, and it was also a difficult situation to climb out of once I was in it. It's inevitable that the social experiences that slowly lead out of isolation are a bit uncomfortable and unpleasant until you're able to rebuild a sense of connection to those around you and find a way to feel comfortable in social situations again. At the worst of my isolated period - during which I had literally no friends in town - I had sincerely lost the ability to stay open to group situations. I shut myself off reflexively as a defense mechanism and then, as a consequence, felt horribly disconnected. The only option left was to force it and that ... just doesn't work.

I think going to see a therapist would be a wonderful help, both with climbing out of your isolation and unpacking why you hate yourself so much. I strongly encourage you to look into it!

It sounds as though you're not enthused with the friends you spent time with. Do you have any friends or family, even far away, that you do feel connected to and comfortable around?

<3

That disconnection is exactly what I am feeling, to the T. I'm almost at 0 friends in town, I have 2 friends in town, but there is no connection b/c nothing really formed I guess, idk. Like you said, it is now very difficult for me to form any connections at this point.

I take it that therapy helped you get out of the isolation? as long as it doesn't cost me $ out of pocket I will see one, hopefully they take insurance can't really afford a therapist on my college funds

Now, my other friends (different 2 from above), I am not enthused with them anymore. I knew them since high school, but at some point we started to grow apart and now there is no connection between us. I got upset with them recently about ignoring me and how I need to get out of my house with somebody. They told me to, "man the fuck up," that it's, "life problems." There is a little more to it, but that's the gist.

Luckily I have my younger brother, whom I absolutely cherish and a childhood friend who lives in another country that I keep in contact with every so often, she's like a sister to me. These 2 are my strong connections, my only ones left really.

Thank you for talking to me btw, it means a lot, seriously. Just to get this shit off my chest. You're a good person.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I don't like the aa method, so maybe see a therapist. Behavioral therapy is science based.

Remember they are sick as well. Alcoholism is no joke. I know that as one.

http://youtu.be/7ZVWIELHQQY

 

[kamineko]

I don't like the aa method, so maybe see a therapist. Behavioral therapy is science based.

I get it, but a therapist won't introduce you to other alcoholics to hang out with. It's cool to know people that have the same problems. At least I like it.

Seems like folks in this thread like talking to people who also have mental illness, for instance.

 

[AwesomePossum]

ok, here it goes... I don't know if someone can help me with this issue but if you have any experience with treating alcoholism/ helping people with alcoholism it would be really helpful if you had any advice because I don't know where else to turn.
I have someone close to me who I think has a serious drinking problem. I have adressed it on several occasions now, but immediately got a very defensive response in any case.
like: "I don't have a problem!" "This is annoying me, I drink whenever I want!" "nobody else thinks I have a problem" "I got it under control!"..etc.
They really do drink regularly though...every weekend is a given, doesn't matter if home alone or when going out. somedays even on normal weekdays. there's always at least one new empty bottle of wine in the room when I visit them, if not a new full one to be ready for next friday. I've never experienced one full week without the person drinking/being drunk at least one day. these were signs for me that something wasn't quite right and correct me if I'm wrong but in my opinion I was spot-on.
I know some of this shit from some of my family members and it's really stressful for me to see someone I care about undergoing this same process. even more so since all my worries were dismissed completely. I feel like talking against a brick wall. And I don't know what to do. it has gotten to the point where I can't take being around the person in a totally trashed state every time we do something anymore. it's so frustrating, like telling someone who is wearing a blue shirt "you're wearing a blue shirt" and against all better judgement and reason they just decide to say "no. I'm not"

any suggestions how I could get through?
is there anything I could do to support the person?
or should I just let it go? :/

as an alcoholic who still drinks despite it having given me necrotic pancreatitis and diabetes... let it go man. that person's gonna' have to figure it out by hitting bottom, and realizing for themselves that they have a problem that they can't control. at that point hopefully the person picks rehab, therapy, maybe AA (though i disagree with their methods) or medication like naltrexone or atabuse.

but don't let yourself fall into that pit with them, it's miserable.

 

[Kipp]

ok, here it goes... I don't know if someone can help me with this issue but if you have any experience with treating alcoholism/ helping people with alcoholism it would be really helpful if you had any advice because I don't know where else to turn.
I have someone close to me who I think has a serious drinking problem. I have adressed it on several occasions now, but immediately got a very defensive response in any case.
like: "I don't have a problem!" "This is annoying me, I drink whenever I want!" "nobody else thinks I have a problem" "I got it under control!"..etc.
They really do drink regularly though...every weekend is a given, doesn't matter if home alone or when going out. somedays even on normal weekdays. there's always at least one new empty bottle of wine in the room when I visit them, if not a new full one to be ready for next friday. I've never experienced one full week without the person drinking/being drunk at least one day. these were signs for me that something wasn't quite right and correct me if I'm wrong but in my opinion I was spot-on.
I know some of this shit from some of my family members and it's really stressful for me to see someone I care about undergoing this same process. even more so since all my worries were dismissed completely. I feel like talking against a brick wall. And I don't know what to do. it has gotten to the point where I can't take being around the person in a totally trashed state every time we do something anymore. it's so frustrating, like telling someone who is wearing a blue shirt "you're wearing a blue shirt" and against all better judgement and reason they just decide to say "no. I'm not"

any suggestions how I could get through?
is there anything I could do to support the person?
or should I just let it go? :/

Edit: Decided to PM you instead. I'm probably out of my depth and don't really want to put my thoughts on blast to the whole thread in case I'm giving bad advice.

 

[trab pu kcip]

as an alcoholic who still drinks despite it having given me necrotic pancreatitis and diabetes... let it go man. that person's gonna' have to figure it out by hitting bottom, and realizing for themselves that they have a problem that they can't control. at that point hopefully the person picks rehab, therapy, maybe AA (though i disagree with their methods) or medication like naltrexone or atabuse.

but don't let yourself fall into that pit with them, it's miserable.

it's just that it's a person I really don't want to lose so what you say might be true but sounds really harsh for me right now :/ we'll see I guess




edit: pm'd you back Kipp.

 

[Piano]

Piano's a good dude.

You're just saying that because you love to play one~

Are you suggesting that I'm hitting on him? Because I would never do that. NEVER, EVER.

*blush*
Guys, guys ... you're embarrassing me!

Spoiler

I wanted my username to be yogurt but it was taken

That disconnection is exactly what I am feeling, to the T. I'm almost at 0 friends in town, I have 2 friends in town, but there is no connection b/c nothing really formed I guess, idk. Like you said, it is now very difficult for me to form any connections at this point.

I take it that therapy helped you get out of the isolation? as long as it doesn't cost me $ out of pocket I will see one, hopefully they take insurance can't really afford a therapist on my college funds

Now, my other friends (different 2 from above), I am not enthused with them anymore. I knew them since high school, but at some point we started to grow apart and now there is no connection between us. I got upset with them recently about ignoring me and how I need to get out of my house with somebody. They told me to, "man the fuck up," that it's, "life problems." There is a little more to it, but that's the gist.

Luckily I have my younger brother, whom I absolutely cherish and a childhood friend who lives in another country that I keep in contact with every so often, she's like a sister to me. These 2 are my strong connections, my only ones left really.

Thank you for talking to me btw, it means a lot, seriously. Just to get this shit off my chest. You're a good person.

A therapist didn't really fix the isolation since, well, it was ultimately up to me to go out and start putting my skin on the line to connect (and reconnect) to people and go through all of the uncomfortable and scary experiences that are on the road to making friendships. But seeing a therapist helped me work through the more difficult parts of isolation and lent me a lot of insight into what I was so afraid of in meeting new people. It also helped to have someone I was seeing regularly that I was "accountable" to, in a way, you know?

One thing that did help somewhat was making sure I was in regular contact with my closest friends who weren't around. I told them about the isolation so they'd understand if I needed to talk slightly more often than usual. At the height of it, when I had zero friends in town, I tried to keep a regular schedule of talking to a friend on the phone at least every other day. I did see my family in this time but, due to the nature of my relationship with them at that time, it didn't "fill me up" the way a good social connection can.

Is your younger brother nearby? It's wonderful that you have him. Does he have any friends he can introduce you to?

And while you may feel no sense of connection to those high school friends at this point, they may come back around some day, so be open to that if and when it happens. My current best friend is someone who I was friends with in high school but never close to and we went around two years without talking during college. But then one day she was back in town and she needed friends and I needed friends ... and it took a few months of warming back up to each other ... but eventually we became very close. Even though we don't have a whole lot in common.

Or perhaps you can reestablish a sense of connection to them by taking the (uncomfortable, scary) initiative to gently, compassionately open up about your life and see if they can relate. If they can, great! You've got a new bon

Ultimately you're going to have to get out there to meet new people. You never know who you'll end up sticking to. Be open to everyone and know that most of them will fade away. But a few will stick. My second closest friend in town right now is my old prom date, followed by a guy I met a few months ago because he is a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend (not exaggerating!). Involvement in activities helps immensely - I made zero (literally) new friends until I went back to school and started doing stuff again. I found that a big part of friendship is shared experience. Even just going on a walk and talking with someone is an experience that can help a budding friendship.

In the mean time, know that isolated you is not the real you. Seriously! In my opinion, human beings and our relationships with them are the magic glue that makes life more than the sum of its parts. When they're no longer in the equation all of the bits of life lose that glue and start to disconnect into this mess of disparate parts.

Just stay focused on trying to reestablish that glue. You make it sound as though you've done it before so I'm sure you can do it again. And it sounds like you have some of it right now, just not enough.

Sorry if anything I've said is wrong, out of line or otherwise unhelpful. Ultimately I'm just some guy on a message board. I think seeing a therapist would be a positive thing.

If you're on health insurance you should be able to go on your insurer's website (or contact them) and get a list of mental health providers in your area who are covered by insurance. Probably a mix of psychiatrists and therapists. There may be a co-pay but it varies from insurer to insurer.

<3

 

[User 479360]

I should be happy, I really should. My closest family member is on the mend after beating cancer twice, and is doing better every day. I just entered my first relationship. We had a great date on Friday.

However, my depression is still dragging me down. It doesn't help that I still live at home, because I think that's one of my major issues. It's just that mentally, financially and independence-wise, I'm not ready to move out. I'll be going on a subsidized housing list once I get on disability, but it's going to take time.

I've been procrastinating on getting tested for lupus, and have had some fatigue and joint pain as of late. The last couple of days have been full of me sleeping. I'll get up after quite a bit of sleep, be up/tired for a bit and then go back to sleep for a few hours. Then it's late at night, around 9-10pm.

My Old Man has a lot on his plate, and I try to help when I can, because he's looking after 3 other people who can't look after themselves. I do what I can when I'm able to -- be it helping to get them in/out of bed, changing, helping PSWs, making sure things are okay while he goes out, doing dishes, doing my laundry (though I sneak things of mine in with their sometimes), driving people to appointments and looking after the cats. However, no matter what I do, the negatives are always focused on. Without me, he wouldn't be able to go out at all, but I make that possible. Yet, I apparently hardly help and am a waste.

I didn't choose to be like this. I didn't choose to have had only fleeting happiness over the course of the last four years. Nor did I choose to have extreme chronic fatigue that comes and goes. I never chose to develop OCD as a young child, or to be quiet. I act lazy, yes, but I'm not well inside.

We had to have a "talk" tonight, because I left a plate and fork in the sink after rinsing it and forgetting about it. Little things like that set the Old Man -- who can be a really good guy, but has treated me like a 12 year old delinquent for most of my life and can be very emotionally abusive, likely unintentionally -- off, and I guess it built up while I was sleeping. Anyways, I now apparently work for him, four hours a day from 9am-1pm, doing whatever he wants.

So, in addition to feeling like shit and trying to push past near constant suicidal ideation and fatigue, I've gotta' hate my life even more thanks to daily yard work. I'm unable to work outside of the house and seem lazy, so he's going to make me his slave? That's fucking helpful.

"Every day, for four hours from 9-1, you work for me. I'll show you how to do things, and if you do it wrong then you'll have to redo it. You're mine for four hours. No cellphone, no playing on the computer." (I write using the computer as a gig to keep me sane.)

I wish I was dead.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

I don't really know what I'll gain from doing this, I am calling behavioral health services tomorrow but I just need to talk. I can't hold it in anymore which is even more apparent because I've had several breakdowns and my mother has urged me to seek help or at least get it documented because I'm a trainwreck right now. I can't work and I have no desire to work in this world, I can't stand the pettiness of people in the workplace and I find interacting with others to be a sort of enigma puzzle.

I have Major Depressive Disorder, Bipolar disorder, and I suffer PTSD from an accident as well as from being the victim of several home invasions, and physical assaults through out my childhood.

I've always had some form of Aspergers, which is a type of autism. I understand the world and the way things are, the way people work but I don't get it. It's like staring at rocket science, and as much as I try... none of it make sense, why can't people just put things aside. But it's not just that... it's everything.

On top of that my family has been in dire financial straights for years on end, creating tons of stress on me as I felt that i had to figure out something and fast otherwise we would inevitably be on the street. I've done what I can and it's never enough, my parents want to force me to work 9-5 in a job I can't stand, let alone getting a job anywhere and being paid peanuts. Then, my parents take almost all of what little there is and I'm left with barely anything after busting my ass.

It wouldn't be so bad except my father is one of those bootstrap assholes, and has been an asshole much of my life. The few times I remember him being my father are fewer than all of the memories I have of him being an asshole that yells a lot, stubborn as a mule, and refuses to listen to reason or admit that he is wrong. The one lesson I've taken from him is that I want to be nothing like him. He used to be my hero and I defended him and loved him through so much shit, and I know it could've been worse; he could've beat me or worse everyday of my life but that's not the point. I love my parents but the environment I live in is toxic most of the time for me and has been for years. My mother, whom I love dearly, is somewhat manipulative and has a tendency to guilt trip me over small things, large things, it doesn't matter. They've never taken an interest in my hobbies and they seem to care more about the television than me, most of the time. I

It's so hard to cipher the bad moments and the good anymore, as much as I love them... half the time I get the impression I'm just a weird burden to them. They love me, sure, but then go on and on about me getting another job, giving up on my novel or any of my other interests and find a job in the factory or working at another goddamn retail store... when they know and can see I am in no shape to do so.

To be clear I haven't been doing well for a long time, the last seven or eight years has been some of the worst of my life which really isn't saying much when it hasn't been terribly great for me to begin with. I don't know where to begin really, it's not any one single event but the weight of them all and the most recent break in sanity I had while under the influence of some very bad quality weed which unfortunately caused me to have a psychotic break in which caused a sort of OCD like loop where I had an intrusive thought say something that I would never ever do. Which is worshiping the devil, this is something that terrifies me since I am a semi-religious person and since that day I've been fighting myself, my own inadequacy and unhappiness and lack of success in my own life and more or less failing to save my family from the same exact situation we are in that I myself, predicted with great accuracy

As for smoking weed, I only ever smoked really good medical stuff and then when I no longer had access to the good stuff I chose to deal with what I could get, partially because I had gone blue in the face explaining the difference between quality meds and bad mold and chemical infested weed that most dispensaries sell to my parents. Hell, even my doctor explained to them that what they were pressuring me to do was bad. Never the less, something is better than nothing right? Well, I learned my lesson there ever since that psychotic break in early 2012. That said, I do still partake when I can get good weed, and I notice that it clears up all my problems whereas the bad stuff exacerbates things.

Before you tell me I was an idiot for becoming a MMJ patient, I have Systemic RA and Fibromyalgia which after going through every single pill, injectible, and experiencing the wonderful side effects of nearly having a heart attack from those medications; I had run out of options back in 2009-2010, and my Doctor suggested to try Medical Marijuana. I got several opinions, watched a lot of documentaries and did a lot of research, Eventually as the pain became too much I began to come around to the idea. MMJ was like a cure for my ailments, mind and body. I was able to finally exercise without pain and lose a lot of weight, nearly 200 lbs down from 400.

On top of that I have had some very real, unexplained encounters with things I cannot explain. I speak of ghosts and demons, real ones. I don't expect you to believe and know most people would sooner write me off as mad then believe, but nonetheless I cannot explain what I've seen or what the others that were there at the time saw as well. Science cannot explain it, which terrifies me since I am somewhat apt to believe more in science instead of madness and odd beliefs. Some nights it bothers me, and sometimes when I sleep I relive those experiences. The immaterial, and the God that watches over us and the fiery hell that awaits those below plague my thoughts more now than they ever did before. I've always been one to question things, as an inquisitive mind does but religion and all that it implies terrifies me. The idea of a God that would throw someone to the fire due to mental illness or their sexual preference because they didn't even have a choice is something that is completely at odds with the message of love and acceptance that he is supposed to invoke, that Christianity is supposed to provide. If my creator made me, then surely he knows of my plights? If we are as we are made, then surely he would not simply toss that person to the fire seemingly in spite? It creates an endless loop for me.

Which doesn't help considering I have terrifying nightmares to begin with, things on the same level as Lovecraft. In fact, in high school I had to do a college level presentation and report on HPL and the similarities between myself and him are astounding. Right down to the terrible night terrors, poor health, etc.

When I was 12 I was almost raped by neighborhood teenager who also apparently had been molesting other children and taking them to his neighbor who was also molesting his own children. Basically, he was using them to recruit more victims. I was playing minigolf in the front yard of our apartment complex when he got frustrated because I wouldn't let him molest me and he started choking me to death, I had a chipping wedge in my hand that was my fathers and before I lost consciousness I beat him in the head with it. He hit the pavement, bled out and shook and my parents called the police. They almost put me away, but my parents pleaded with them and I couldn't tell them then what happened. I told my mother in hysterics about a week ago while recovering from major shoulder surgery what really happened all those years ago, and some other things, and for the second time what I've been facing in my head and nightmares.

From that moment all those years ago I had a severe phobia of children and teenagers, to the point that it still effects me today. I don't want to ever have children, I can't see bringing children up in an impoverished world filled with terrible fucking people.


Within the last five or six years several things happened I'll list them below as I feel I've gotten a bit to long and well, everything is not really making sense and is out of order so forgive me. I'm not of sound mind.

Around the end of 2010 my family could no longer afford to live in the apartments we were living in and my father rushed us into an agreement with one of his truck driving buddies who was buying a house. They made an agreement for us to move in, live in the basement and pay him a small portion of our income as rent, far smaller than anything before. Sounds great, then a week before move in day comes and we find out his nephew is moving in... Okay, well as much of a red flag that was at least we were still going to have our own space, Right? Well it gets closer to move in day and we find out it's not only his nephew but his girlfriend too and we would have to live upstairs. At this point the klaxon sirens are going off inside my head and I tell my parents and they pretty much do what they always do when I have anything to worry about and brush it all under the table and besides we didn't really have any other options.

So we move in, everything seems to be fine. Then we find out that the nephew and his girlfriend have been kicked out of every single place they've lived in, parents, friends, family, or otherwise because they drink and then the have terrible fights. Well, worst comes to worst and after months of some of the worst nonsense I've ever put up with in my life, trying to help them(and giving up). Late one night the whole house starts fucking shaking because they were drinking all night(despite swearing off alcohol, which the nephews uncle made him do) and he was beating the shit out of her, punching holes in walls and breaking shit. I run down there, run into his friends who were trying to just leave quietly and they drunkenly told me to go back upstairs and leave it alone. At this point I'd called and left frantic messages on his Uncle's cell phone but he wouldn't respond, my father was in fucking Chicago waiting on a load and could do nothing.

I didn't, I told them that his Uncle said they couldn't do this shit anymore and that if they didn't calm down I would call the cops. So I yelled at them and he came running out and leaping punched me in the right shoulder where I was weak from a bicycle accident. He drunkenly kept threatening me alongside his GF, grabbed a beer bottle and some words were exchanged, at this point I start backing up because there are potentially four drunken combatant people in the room. The BF leaps forward I knock the bottle out with some trick fighting disarms my dad taught me because when I was younger people would beat the shit out of me on the playground, I've always been a scappy fighter but I hate fighting and it makes me physically ill.

And I keep backing up his friends are just looking at each other and trying to hold the BF back, and I get about halfway up the stairs before his GF rushes me and drunkenly grabs onto my shirt and refuses to let go while trying to tell me, "what kind of man I am". At that point I say Let go of me you psycho bitch! And I am twisting her wrist, because she refuses to let go and starts trying to punch me, I am twisting her wrist so fucking hard that it should be broken. Luckily, she gasps and falls back from my harsh words and I bolt up the stairs screaming MOM GET THE .45 AND CALL THE COPS.

My mom didn't hear me and all I can hear is a bunch of loud, drunk assholes tearing ass after me through the house saying they were gonna kill me and my dog, and my mother for disrespecting their friend.

At this point I had to barricade my mother, myself, and my dog and the uncle's dogs in my parents bedroom as they are literally trying to kick in the door, while screaming their bloody heads off. I open up the lockbox with my dad's 1911 in it and I chamber it, rack the slide and assume a weaver shooting stance. I tell them if they do not back off, I will put rounds through the door as I believe they are threat to the safety of myself and others, if they proceed after I fire the warning shots into the door frame, I will put them through the door and into them. They don't believe I have a gun and keep pounding, at this point I really don't want to shoot anyone so I rack it again close to the door. They go silent, his friends plead to leave, and they leave the cops arrive. They can't do anything because of the living arrangement, and shit pretty much is a no win situation. Nothing is done.

It was around this time that I also managed to finally get my first job after many years of applying and searching, not to mention the hours spent filling out applications for college grants and the like, while also being denied again and again despite also working with a state run agency that was designed to help you get a leg up in life(School to Work Alliance Program) and finally get some shit done. They were completely useless, and after I got a 30K grant my case manager would constantly call me each week telling me that it shrank to X amount. Which didn't make any sense to me, and when I asked why, and pried and pushed eventually I was let go from the program. So much for silver linings. On top of that I was laid off after only working for 3 months at fedex, I wasn't the only person laid off that day but it hurt.

In the end, his uncle pays us $5500 dollars to leave acknowledging it wasn't our fault that he believes my story but still takes his Nephews side because he's family and we aren't. My parents decide, with very little thought to move us to Greeley where another one of his truck driving buddies lives and we move into a trailer home. Which again, hoping that maybe these people weren't scum and were good people.

They aren't, but my parents despite how much shit their family has done to us now are still friends with these people since they figure some friends are better than none. I could go into why these back country redneck assholes are terrible people, and their worthless shit of a son and his now ex-wife and kids whom we rescued and lost a vehicle to because they are worthless scumbags. I don't want to talk about these people. I don't have it in me.


Over the last few years(2010-2015) I've been in a terrible car accident(which made it so I couldn't walk for almost a year, this was in 2013 and lasted till the around summer 2014), gained and lost employment in retail, and continued watching my families financial status and health decline. Sure, there's always a small bright patch here and there and I do have some nice things by sheer circumstance but my life is falling apart and everything. I pray and I try to do things the right way and nothing gets better. I don't get better, or when I start getting better something stupid happens and I try to weather the storm but the storm becomes a maelstrom.

I'm alive, but what purpose do I even serve? I should be thankful but I want more out of life than this for myself, for my family. I've tried so hard, and failed almost every time. And now my novel sits unfinished as I try to recuperate from surgery and madness, and try to conquer my fear that my book won't sell or worse I'll be a laughing stock, a loser. Just like everyone ever told me I was, except for a small few who told me to be a writer. Writing is all I really have left to offer to a world that has burned me and so many others.

My father has diabetes and hasn't taken well to dealing with it since it first was diagnosed, now it's to the point where he has to change. Every time we've had a scare he changes for about a week to a month and just goes back to stress eating and doing whatever the fuck he wants because, as he puts it, he's the man of the household and in charge and everything rests upon his shoulders. Which is true, if he becomes insulin dependent or his A1Cs go over too many more times they will pull his CDL and he will be fired and barred from the trucking industry and then everything goes down in flames. On top of that he's going through some sort of midlife crisis thing and is being an incredibly insensitive asshole who yells all the time, gets incredibly mad over stupid things(like spilling a glass of water), and takes everything I say as an affront to his manhood and stance in the house. My mother takes my side after every battle but when I need her the most she sticks to his side and backs him up in his tirades against me. Then an hour later he'll come apologize and expect everything to be hunky fucking dory and I have to fucking smile and say its okay, because if I don't it's another goddamn screaming match.

My mother is on oxygen 24/7 and has a myriad of health issues, and because of a certain school organization we can't get government disability for her because when she worked for the school district as a paraeducator, they had her pay into their form of social security instead of the governments. So, she basically is sick but not sick enough for disability from either organization. that in of itself is another tawdry tale of sadness and woe that I don't want to go into.

The more I look at this jumbled procession of fevered typing, the more I start to regret it. It all seems unbelievable that person such as me went through so much, and I haven't even told everything.

I mean last year around valentines day, I found out my ex killed herself on our favorite day(halloween) 2010. Not one single person contacted me in the nearly four years she was dead, she was the only woman I ever loved and I didn't care that she was asexual. She made me feel brave in a world of uncertainty, and at same time she was also kind of bad for me. We had a rocky relationship at times, and she couldn't decide where we stood on some things and it hurt when she'd hit on other guys to get me to leave her because she wanted me to find someone I could be physical with. Eventually, we broke up and parted ways amicably. I never saw her again, and it was hard for me because my Best Friend of nine years had been acting like a fucking asshole and having huge parties at his house in which all manner of deviant behavior would occur, often times with underage people amongst them. Eventually, he stabbed me in the back over something trivial and we parted ways.

My mother trivialized her death, and didn't even apologize for it.
My father was the only one that gave me any sympathy.

At the end of the day when I lay in my bed and look at my life as it stares back at me relentless like a great abyss. I wonder if I made the right choices, said the right things.

I wonder if I will burn, and I pray for mercy to a God that watches silently. I still believe because there are times when the chips were down we somehow made it out miraculously and against all odds. I think he's there you know.

But I think the lives we have, the miserable hell we put ourselves through is all our own fault. We make the world as it is, not any God or demon.

I can't take it anymore, and I need peace in my life before I lose my fucking mind completely.

I've tried to live a life of peace and intellectualism, I've studied so many different cultures and religions, entire civilizations that no longer exist, read so many books and written so many short stories.

None of it gives me peace, and in an effort to reach out and touch the world and connect I now find myself an outcast even moreso than before. I live in an area where most of the people are about as smart as a rock, and most of them are racist assholes or gang members, or college kids looking to party.

I don't know what to do anymore, and I look over these thoughts and writings and wonder how childish I am.

I'm sick. I'm tired. I don't want to suffer anymore.

And I wish I could get these fucking stomach ulcers taken care of so I can go back to eating real food.

 

[DrM]

any suggestions how I could get through?
is there anything I could do to support the person?
or should I just let it go? :/

Denial is the first defense of a person with drinking problem. But if they are really as stubborn as you posted, you won't move them a bit. kamineko wrote it down perfectly, person that is prisoner of alcohol, need something to 'move' that switch in their head and if it is not too late, they can break the habit. Or even that won't move them and downwards spiral will continue.

You can help your friend with regular check on him. Confronting him will probably yield a opposite result.

We had a lot of problems in our greater family due to alcohol. Well, the current score is - four persons, only one is alive. Aunt and two relatives died, only my dad is still alive.

He was a heavy drinker and it really took a mark to my childhood / teen years - everybody knew him and they knew about his problems with alcohol. He couldn't function without alcohol - he had a beer for breakfast or some schnapps...

But every time we wanted to help him, he defended himself with such insane force, like building a diamond wall around himself. Mom tried to fill divorce papers numerous times, but he declined to sign them, so she gave up... Me and my sister begged him to stop drinking, but he never gave any attention to us.. basically, he declined every help with words "I am ok, mind for yourself". Same story with other three relatives. They declined any help, living in their alcohol warped reality, sucking a lot of energy from their loved ones..two died due to alcohol caused diseases and one perished in a car crash (DUI crash into a tree)

My dad started to change his mind only when his liver started to cause him problems, but it was too late to save them. So he got another chance with new organ and now he is sorry for his previous alcohol induced actions... yeah, it is easy to speak now, where were you for 25 years of my life?

We have a saying here, that will sound a bit brutal, but sadly, it is too true "Drunk will only turn when he will be falling into his grave"

 

[Takashi]

Have you consulted a doctor about your low energy? There are a bevy of reasons why one could have abnormally low energy and motivation. I'm not familiar with most of them as I'm a lowly art student.

Not yet, though I've been wanting to go get a check up for a while now. I just have a horrible procrastination problem, and I'm also a bit afraid of that tiny off chance they find something seriously wrong with me.

 

[Bel Marduk]

the fucking intrusive thoughts i've always had them but not like this they're blocking out everything else i can't fucking live like this why can't i be normal? don't know if i'll make it this time fuck fuck fuck someone please help how can anybody make it through life when your own brain is your worst enemy

 

[Piano]

I wish I was dead.

Chewie, I really don't know what to say other than I'm sincerely sorry that you're suffering. Please keep posting and keeping us updated. Hang in there, to the best of your ability.

I like your avatar, by the way. I'm a sucker for really contrast-y colors.

I'm sick. I'm tired. I don't want to suffer anymore.

And I wish I could get these fucking stomach ulcers taken care of so I can go back to eating real food.

Also here, RoyaleDuke, I wish I knew the perfect thing to say. Hopefully it brings you some semblance of peace knowing that there are others out there who are reading your posts and wishing you relief from your suffering and difficulties.

I find your thoughts on religion really interesting, actually. You've clearly contemplated some very big things (the abyss of the universe itself!), things that many people go through an entire lifetime without considering (or they avoid considering them).

I hope you're able to continue work on your novel soon, and I hope you keep posting here to let us know if there's anything GAF can do.

Not yet, though I've been wanting to go get a check up for a while now. I just have a horrible procrastination problem, and I'm also a bit afraid of that tiny off chance they find something seriously wrong with me.

I know this is so obvious you've already thought of this, but on the chance that there is a health issue going on, it's better to catch it sooner rather than later.

Everyone has their own ways of motivating themselves to finally do the things they've been avoiding. Do you have any tricks you can apply to this one?

the fucking intrusive thoughts i've always had them but not like this they're blocking out everything else i can't fucking live like this why can't i be normal? don't know if i'll make it this time fuck fuck fuck someone please help how can anybody make it through life when your own brain is your worst enemy

If your intrusive thoughts are destroying your ability to function or are imploring you to hurt yourself (or others) please go to an emergency room immediately.

 

[Saiyan-Rox]

starting to fall deeper into the pit and cant see my life getting any better my self hate is getting worse as is my anxiety and i keep thinking people are laughing at me behind my back. not that they are as no one cares enough about me to even do that....im just unimportant and useless and no one wants anything to do with me.

cant get a date to save my life hell people cant stand to be around me more than a few hours at most. im constantly alone with no one to talk too and am just a sack of crap a boring sack ><

 

[Shinobes]

.

 

[kamineko]

Do psychologists/psychiatrists/healthcare providers have any legal ramifications if one of their clients commits suicide? Outside of lawsuits from family or what have you, if there is such a thing. What negative consequences could happen to them? If anyone knows

I believe they have a legal obligation to alert the authorities if they believe there is a credible threat to a patient's physical safety, but I'm not sure what, specifically, would happen if they didn't. A criminal charge of some kind.

 

[Shinobes]

.

 

[Vaudeville Villain]

A therapist didn't really fix the isolation since, well, it was ultimately up to me to go out and start putting my skin on the line to connect (and reconnect) to people and go through all of the uncomfortable and scary experiences that are on the road to making friendships. But seeing a therapist helped me work through the more difficult parts of isolation and lent me a lot of insight into what I was so afraid of in meeting new people. It also helped to have someone I was seeing regularly that I was "accountable" to, in a way, you know?

One thing that did help somewhat was making sure I was in regular contact with my closest friends who weren't around. I told them about the isolation so they'd understand if I needed to talk slightly more often than usual. At the height of it, when I had zero friends in town, I tried to keep a regular schedule of talking to a friend on the phone at least every other day. I did see my family in this time but, due to the nature of my relationship with them at that time, it didn't "fill me up" the way a good social connection can.

Is your younger brother nearby? It's wonderful that you have him. Does he have any friends he can introduce you to?

And while you may feel no sense of connection to those high school friends at this point, they may come back around some day, so be open to that if and when it happens. My current best friend is someone who I was friends with in high school but never close to and we went around two years without talking during college. But then one day she was back in town and she needed friends and I needed friends ... and it took a few months of warming back up to each other ... but eventually we became very close. Even though we don't have a whole lot in common.

Or perhaps you can reestablish a sense of connection to them by taking the (uncomfortable, scary) initiative to gently, compassionately open up about your life and see if they can relate. If they can, great! You've got a new bon

Ultimately you're going to have to get out there to meet new people. You never know who you'll end up sticking to. Be open to everyone and know that most of them will fade away. But a few will stick. My second closest friend in town right now is my old prom date, followed by a guy I met a few months ago because he is a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend (not exaggerating!). Involvement in activities helps immensely - I made zero (literally) new friends until I went back to school and started doing stuff again. I found that a big part of friendship is shared experience. Even just going on a walk and talking with someone is an experience that can help a budding friendship.

In the mean time, know that isolated you is not the real you. Seriously! In my opinion, human beings and our relationships with them are the magic glue that makes life more than the sum of its parts. When they're no longer in the equation all of the bits of life lose that glue and start to disconnect into this mess of disparate parts.

Just stay focused on trying to reestablish that glue. You make it sound as though you've done it before so I'm sure you can do it again. And it sounds like you have some of it right now, just not enough.

Sorry if anything I've said is wrong, out of line or otherwise unhelpful. Ultimately I'm just some guy on a message board. I think seeing a therapist would be a positive thing.

If you're on health insurance you should be able to go on your insurer's website (or contact them) and get a list of mental health providers in your area who are covered by insurance. Probably a mix of psychiatrists and therapists. There may be a co-pay but it varies from insurer to insurer.

<3

Those are all great points you've made, I will try my best to get out there. I think my first step is getting a therapist (If I can) and to get over hating myself, because at this point it's just really bad. Opening up to anybody at this point seems terrifying, lol.

I have had connections before, I'm actually very approachable, at least I used to be. I just started to hate myself more and more. It honestly used to not be like this, I use to deal with my issues with self harm, no longer works, now I'm at this point, I feel so damn pitiful.

I am in close proximity w/my younger brother, we live together we're very busy though so we see each other very little, which is why we do our weekly, "Get together." He has introduced his friends to me, in fact, I text 2 of them sometimes, I just don't feel comfortable making friends with my brothers friends. Seems a bit odd and, tbh, makes me feel a little worse since I feel as if I should be making my own group of friends, not relying on his. Is that normal? Should I not be thinking like that?

And you know, you are just some guy on a message board, but you've taken the time to listen, which is more than I can say for people in my life. I'm still in pretty bad shape but talking to you helped me gain some focus on what needs to be done, so for that, I thank you. Seriously, this was a big deal to me.

You deserve a <3 this time around, so <3.

 

[Mr. F]

Anyone have opinions on disclosing mental illness to employers and whether or not to do so? I just started at a company today and I don't see it being an issue as the HR and upper management are all very accommodating, but was left wondering after reading arguments for and against online.

I kind of want to just own it and not let the stigma discourage me.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I get it, but a therapist won't introduce you to other alcoholics to hang out with. It's cool to know people that have the same problems. At least I like it.

Seems like folks in this thread like talking to people who also have mental illness, for instance.

oh, ok that makes sense.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Well, the first monumental obstacle to getting the help you say you want that you first need to overcome is your stubbornness. You haven't made an attempt to see either kind of therapist and you're already dismissing it. Humor it. Give it a chance. How else would you expect things to change otherwise?

What? I'm "dismissing" it because you guys told me these things didn't do anything - that one type isn't even a doctor and can't offer anything besides talking - and the other is just a prescription pad and can't offer real assistance. You guys told me that in this thread not a few pages back.

So one of them (therapy) is understanding why you feel the way you feel so you can (hopefully) change it and the other (psychiatry) is medication that lessens your symptoms and, therefore, your suffering. How can help be any more direct than that, short of someone reaching in and rewiring your brain?

I feel the way I feel because I have a number of mental illnesses - there is something physically wrong with my brain, they're not just "feelings" that will pass after a pow-wow with someone, they're permanent unless I find a fix.

Everything I've seen about medication has said that it's just a guessing game and that results are mostly negative. That was my experience with Zoloft like seven years ago: I felt just as bad, felt worse coming down at the end of the day, went from a 32 waist to a 38, and a ton of other terrible effects that did more to knock me off track. I'm finally just getting back to where I was before medication made things worse.

Isn't the rewiring what I need? I need the doctor that actually looks at the brain to figure out what's wrong with it. What's that doctor?

I very specifically spoke about what happened in therapy in this post. Yes, it was tied in with the context of my bad breakup six years ago but there are at least 200 words there about what, specifically, the therapist did to help. Every appointment with my therapist is spent talking, during which time I am soothed by having someone nonjudgmentally listen to be ramble about my stupid garbage problems and tell me they're not stupid garbage. Then that person, over time, also talks, showing me new ways of thinking about my problems, drawing connections between things I hadn't considered related, noting patterns in the things I talk about, offering specific pointers on how to alleviate my suffering and nightly existential anxiety, and so on. Sometimes, if I feel I'm not getting enough feedback from my therapist I'll specifically ask him questions.

You didn't talk about what happened in therapy, you vividly described the super powers you walked out of therapy with but glossed over how they were obtained. Are there magic words that the therapist says to make things better or something? I don't understand how you walk into a place, someone talks to you for an hour a few times and you walk out cured of illness. That sounds.... crazy.

 

[Woorloog]

Is it normal to feel weak (as in lacking strength) and tired after a panic attack?

(I had something i assume was a panic attack.)

 

[kamineko]

*snip*

I've been following this back and forth a bit, and I'll just say... do you believe in science and stuff? Like electricity, automobiles, the Internet, that kind of thing? The general consensus at this time is that "mechanical" problems in the brain are largely caused by chemical imbalance. These imbalances are what psychiatric medications attempt to correct. Because of individual variations, yes, it is a trial-and-error process to find the correct medication. What works for one person doesn't always work for another. Or, alternately, side effects may be unacceptable for some people. I just can't take Abilify. Can't stand it. I won't take Seroquel, because the weight gain is too much. It does take patience, sometimes, to find the right combination, but it's worth it if you are unhappy enough with your current symptoms.

Maybe the science could be better, I'm not really qualified to assess it as a scientist. That is definitely where the science is, though.

There are also problems that some have with the way they perceive and engage with the world. Those manifest themselves as behavioral problems. Since they are not rooted in neurochemistry, medication does nothing to treat them. The most extreme examples are familiar to many, and resistant to treatment of any kind: sociopathy, for instance. More benign behavioral problems are commonly treated through therapy, with the hope of helping the patient develop more productive methods of thinking about the world and people around them.

These methods, too, reflect our species' best understanding of human behavior.

The greatest challenge to all of this (besides the frustration of experimenting with various medications) lies in finding professionals that "click" with you. These are well-educated professionals, sure, but they may or may not "get" you as well as you would like. It has, over the years, hardly seemed worth trying at times, but at the end of the day everybody has to decide for themselves whether they wish to address these problems or not.

I'm not trying to sell you on anything. You need to do what's right for you. Everyone should. But, I mean, I didn't like Zoloft, either. That doesn't invalidate the science.

Whatever road you wind up on, I wish you luck.

 

[trab pu kcip]

Denial is the first defense of a person with drinking problem. But if they are really as stubborn as you posted, you won't move them a bit. kamineko wrote it down perfectly, person that is prisoner of alcohol, need something to 'move' that switch in their head and if it is not too late, they can break the habit. Or even that won't move them and downwards spiral will continue.

You can help your friend with regular check on him. Confronting him will probably yield a opposite result.

We had a lot of problems in our greater family due to alcohol. Well, the current score is - four persons, only one is alive. Aunt and two relatives died, only my dad is still alive.

He was a heavy drinker and it really took a mark to my childhood / teen years - everybody knew him and they knew about his problems with alcohol. He couldn't function without alcohol - he had a beer for breakfast or some schnapps...

But every time we wanted to help him, he defended himself with such insane force, like building a diamond wall around himself. Mom tried to fill divorce papers numerous times, but he declined to sign them, so she gave up... Me and my sister begged him to stop drinking, but he never gave any attention to us.. basically, he declined every help with words "I am ok, mind for yourself". Same story with other three relatives. They declined any help, living in their alcohol warped reality, sucking a lot of energy from their loved ones..two died due to alcohol caused diseases and one perished in a car crash (DUI crash into a tree)

My dad started to change his mind only when his liver started to cause him problems, but it was too late to save them. So he got another chance with new organ and now he is sorry for his previous alcohol induced actions... yeah, it is easy to speak now, where were you for 25 years of my life?

We have a saying here, that will sound a bit brutal, but sadly, it is too true "Drunk will only turn when he will be falling into his grave"

thanks for your response. I will still try to get through to them but if everything fails I will take your words to heart and just accept it as it is. as sad as it might be.
but right know I've not given up just yet.
it sounds horrible what happened in your family, like I said I made experiences with that as well so yeah... it's like a common plague in some ways.

all that aside: hope you're feeling better

 

[Woorloog]

Man, this fucking day fucking sucks.
First, a panic attack.
Then a tooth breaks. (And almost triggers another panic attack.)
Then i start checking web pages about getting to a doctor and to a dentist... but the fucking pages are such a fucking mess i can barely find what i'm looking for. Depressing. Not to mention, i'm not sure i have anything so acute i'd get there soon. I kinda do need to get there ASAP... EDIT Oh, right, i forgot to mention, i kind of fear visiting a dentist. Detest it. And the fucking dentists don't help any with their moralizing bullshit talk (especially when you can't talk back because, you know, they're doing stuff with your mouth).
And when cooking, i can barely do that right either. Which is quite depressing because cooking is one thing i can do well usually.

And this is after a weekend of being oddly sick: on Saturday, i woke up with immense vertigo (but oddly enough, no nausea), and i felt kind of light-headed and weak the whole day. Repeat for Sunday... and i barely could sleep the next night, waking up early, and once i finally got to sleep again, i wake up an hour later to pretty bad nightmare. No vertigo though.
I say "oddly", because i didn't have fever, no cough, so it wasn't a flu.

I wonder what's next... i probably can't get any sleep tonight because of all this shit. And i have important stuff to do tomorrow.

Fuck.

EDIT Now i'm biting my teeth together so that it hurts. Kind of annoying to keep such reflex in check.
Fucking miserable day.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I've been following this back and forth a bit, and I'll just say... do you believe in science and stuff? Like electricity, automobiles, the Internet, that kind of thing?

Yes and that's why a doctor guessing what medication I should be taking doesn't seem scientific at all. Same for therapy. What magic words could you say to cure a person of their cancer? Everything I've read suggests that this stuff is just as useless and pseudo-science as those cleanse things, herbal medicine and prayer. When I question how these various things helped a few times and in every instance, instead of answering, I was given a list of results. At least suicide brings the pain and suffering to an end. The problem is I'd be leaving my brothers for dead.

 

[kamineko]

Yes and that's why a doctor guessing what medication I should be taking doesn't seem scientific at all. Same for therapy. What magic words could you say to cure a person of their cancer? Everything I've read suggests that this stuff is just as useless and pseudo-science as those cleanse things, herbal medicine and prayer. When I question how these various things helped a few times and in every instance, instead of answering, I was given a list of results. At least suicide brings the pain and suffering to an end. The problem is I'd be leaving my brothers for dead.

Well, obviously one can't go to an accredited university to study herbal remedies, or the healing power of prayer. Unless there is a far-reaching conspiracy across the globe, the many things you mention have nothing in common with psychiatric medicine.

How, specifically, psychiatric medicine works, I cannot say, any more than I could explain current treatments for cancer.

I mean, I won't lie, it is a pain in the ass. So much so that few would bother if they didn't feel like they really needed it. Some that need it are discouraged as well, unfortunately. I have started and stopped many times before reaching a point where it was no longer optional for me.

Therapy doesn't rely on magic words. It tends, at least in my experience, to assist in developing different ways of looking at and thinking about both people and the world, as well as one's own understanding of his/her personal history. I never had a sense of magical transformation in therapy. I was eventually able to shrug off some pretty damned counterproductive thought-habits--a lot of the things we think, it turned out, are rooted in habit.

I don't think any of it is a quick fix. It's work.

I understand what you are saying regarding suicide. Whatever else it is, suicide is most definitely an ending. I have a cousin that committed suicide eight years ago. I have thought, many times, that he "ruined" or "stole" my suicide. After seeing the aftermath, and the horrible pain the survivors felt (and will always feel, it never goes away), I couldn't do that to my family members. Sometimes, I wanted to be dead so badly that I actually resented him for this.

But in truth, he has saved my life. More than once. I probably could have done it, had I not known what the effects would be.

 

[Piano]

Those are all great points you've made, I will try my best to get out there. I think my first step is getting a therapist (If I can) and to get over hating myself, because at this point it's just really bad. Opening up to anybody at this point seems terrifying, lol.

I have had connections before, I'm actually very approachable, at least I used to be. I just started to hate myself more and more. It honestly used to not be like this, I use to deal with my issues with self harm, no longer works, now I'm at this point, I feel so damn pitiful.

I am in close proximity w/my younger brother, we live together we're very busy though so we see each other very little, which is why we do our weekly, "Get together." He has introduced his friends to me, in fact, I text 2 of them sometimes, I just don't feel comfortable making friends with my brothers friends. Seems a bit odd and, tbh, makes me feel a little worse since I feel as if I should be making my own group of friends, not relying on his. Is that normal? Should I not be thinking like that?

And you know, you are just some guy on a message board, but you've taken the time to listen, which is more than I can say for people in my life. I'm still in pretty bad shape but talking to you helped me gain some focus on what needs to be done, so for that, I thank you. Seriously, this was a big deal to me.

You deserve a <3 this time around, so <3.

I think it makes sense that you're hesitant to rely on your brother's friends, maybe it feels like in doing so you're losing some small sense of independence. That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with "relying" on his friends for the time being until you're able to connect with others especially since if you're able to develop a friendship it won't be "relying" at all - it'll just be you and other people who enjoy spending time with one another.

They will likely understand that you're in the middle of a social transition and not think much of it.

Yes, hating yourself can get in the way. Even if you're not able to get over hating yourself quickly (I haven't been able to, completely) understanding the nature of why you hate yourself and the sorts of things you judge yourself for can help you get a lot more comfortable in social situations.

Hope you're able to relieve some of that sense of isolation soon, at least enough to carry you through finding a therapist and making some new connections

Anyone have opinions on disclosing mental illness to employers and whether or not to do so? I just started at a company today and I don't see it being an issue as the HR and upper management are all very accommodating, but was left wondering after reading arguments for and against online.

I kind of want to just own it and not let the stigma discourage me.

If you feel HR / management is supportive then I say go for it. I both have and have not disclosed before depending on my read of the higher ups, but I felt more comfortable at my job where I did open up and got their support.

Is it normal to feel weak (as in lacking strength) and tired after a panic attack?

(I had something i assume was a panic attack.)

YES! Panic attacks are exhausting - it's like all of the stress, worry and anxiety of an entire day jammed into less than an hour. I used to just wrap myself in a sheet and lay there after panic, I was so drained.

Man, this fucking day fucking sucks.
First, a panic attack.
Then a tooth breaks. (And almost triggers another panic attack.)
Then i start checking web pages about getting to a doctor and to a dentist... but the fucking pages are such a fucking mess i can barely find what i'm looking for. Depressing. Not to mention, i'm not sure i have anything so acute i'd get there soon. I kinda do need to get there ASAP... EDIT Oh, right, i forgot to mention, i kind of fear visiting a dentist. Detest it. And the fucking dentists don't help any with their moralizing bullshit talk (especially when you can't talk back because, you know, they're doing stuff with your mouth).
And when cooking, i can barely do that right either. Which is quite depressing because cooking is one thing i can do well usually.

And this is after a weekend of being oddly sick: on Saturday, i woke up with immense vertigo (but oddly enough, no nausea), and i felt kind of light-headed and weak the whole day. Repeat for Sunday... and i barely could sleep the next night, waking up early, and once i finally got to sleep again, i wake up an hour later to pretty bad nightmare. No vertigo though.
I say "oddly", because i didn't have fever, no cough, so it wasn't a flu.

I wonder what's next... i probably can't get any sleep tonight because of all this shit. And i have important stuff to do tomorrow.

Fuck.

EDIT Now i'm biting my teeth together so that it hurts. Kind of annoying to keep such reflex in check.
Fucking miserable day.

I'm sorry to hear this, woorloog.
All I can really say is: one day at a time. Nothing is a certainty but the present moment. As tempting as it may be to write an epitaph of failure for tomorrow or next week they haven't come to pass yet and none of us know how circumstances may change between now and then.

Do you have any tactics you use to force yourself to do things that are unpleasant or uncomfortable? (like visiting the dentist, or even making a dental appointment)

<3

 

[Woorloog]

YES! Panic attacks are exhausting - it's like all of the stress, worry and anxiety of an entire day jammed into less than an hour. I used to just wrap myself in a sheet and lay there after panic, I was so drained.

Good, good. In a sense that it is safe to assume it was a panic attack and nothing worse (not impossible, with all the other crap).

I'm sorry to hear this, woorloog.
All I can really say is: one day at a time. Nothing is a certainty but the present moment. As tempting as it may be to write an epitaph of failure for tomorrow or next week they haven't come to pass yet and none of us know how circumstances may change between now and then.

One day at a time doesn't really cut it, not after years of crap. Haven't had any future plans for a long time, not much fucking point when individual days are what they are.

Do you have any tactics you use to force yourself to do things that are unpleasant or uncomfortable? (like visiting the dentist, or even making a dental appointment)

<3

Yeah: don't do a thing.
Only, it doesn't work. Because it eventually gets to the point when there's no longer a choice. Or there is but the choices are "be miserable for a long, long time" or "be badly miserable for a short time".

 

[Piano]

But in truth, he has saved my life. More than once. I probably could have done it, had I not known what the effects would be.

Thank you kamineko for sharing your experiences with and thoughts on psychiatry and therapy. You covered a lot of what I was planning on saying so I'll just fill in a few gaps with my thoughts

What? I'm "dismissing" it because you guys told me these things didn't do anything - that one type isn't even a doctor and can't offer anything besides talking - and the other is just a prescription pad and can't offer real assistance. You guys told me that in this thread not a few pages back.

First of all, I never said that. Please show me where if you feel I did so I can clarify.

Therapists can have one of several qualifications (MD, PhD in Psych, LCSW, PsyD) all of which offer slightly different paths to therapy. Not just any quack can become a therapist. All four of those are intensive training programs on behavior and treatment methods. The different paths give them slightly different styles.

My current therapist is an MD, as was one of my past therapists. The one before that was PhD. Are those not real doctors?

Psychiatrists can offer lots of real assistance. More on that below.

I feel the way I feel because I have a number of mental illnesses - there is something physically wrong with my brain, they're not just "feelings" that will pass after a pow-wow with someone, they're permanent unless I find a fix.

This is only sort of true. There is a physiological component to mental illness - your brain signals certain senses and feelings to you. There is also a behavioral component - you receive these stimuli and based on your behavioral patterns and prior conditioning you respond in some way. This balance is slightly different for everyone. But both are always a factor. You are not an exception to this.

For instance, for me, perception of others social judgments of me (behavioral) trigger an anxiety response in me (physiological) whose energy I often route into harshly criticizing myself (behavioral). I am on medication to lessen the strength of that anxiety response. I am in therapy in order to unlearn those behavioral triggers.

Does that make more sense?

Therapy treats the behavioral component of mental illness. Psychiatry treats the physiological component.

Everything I've seen about medication has said that it's just a guessing game and that results are mostly negative. That was my experience with Zoloft like seven years ago: I felt just as bad, felt worse coming down at the end of the day, went from a 32 waist to a 38, and a ton of other terrible effects that did more to knock me off track. I'm finally just getting back to where I was before medication made things worse.

Isn't the rewiring what I need? I need the doctor that actually looks at the brain to figure out what's wrong with it. What's that doctor?

First of all, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Zoloft.

Our understanding of the brain and its wiring is too basic for you to just hop on an imaging machine, a doctor to take a look and say "there! that's the problem spot!" and just poke it with forceps or something.

Even if we did understand it that well, that would not fix the behavioral aspects of mental illness, which, as I said, are present in everyone.

In the mean time, what we have is the psychiatric field, which, while far from perfect, is not the totally arbitrary guessing game you've reduced it to. Psychiatrists are trained medical professionals with an understanding of the things we do know about the brain that they use in order to make educated attempts to treat patients. The guessing component of it, to be clear, is the patient's body's reaction to the medication. Any medication that is on the market in the US has been demonstrated in testing to be significantly more effective than a placebo at treating the condition it targets. This is true of all medications for all conditions. That being said, your body may or may not react in the same way as anyone else's, and this is especially true when it comes to something as complex as the brain.

This is similar to the procedure used for many illnesses. Doctor makes educated guess at best treatment. Patient reports back that treatment either worked (yay!) or didn't work. If treatment didn't work, doctor uses additional information gained from first attempt at treatment to inform second treatment. A few years ago I had a mysterious very serious illness come on suddenly - very high fever, stiff neck (!!), aches and pains, serious heartburn. I went to the doctor. They tested for the most serious illness (meningitis), it came back negative, so they took a guess at what medicine would relieve my symptoms and sent me home with it. Told me if it didn't work to come back. It didn't, my body did not respond well to it, so I got different medication. That medication worked. Boom, science.

In my experience, roughly 1 in 3 of the psychiatric medications I've tried in my lifetime have worked well or very well at alleviating my symptoms. If things continue at that rate - which they shouldn't, they've actually been getting much better as I learn more about how I react to things and what I need to treat - but for the sake of argument let's say that if things continue at that rate, and it takes me roughly 3 months to demo a medication - which it doesn't, it takes maybe 2 at most, but let's say 3 - at the rate of every third medication helping me and it taking three months to demo a medication I am likely to find something that works within a year.

I've been told by nearly every doctor I've seen that my body reacts abnormally to medication and I've had an above-average number of complications from medication. In other words, it is more difficult than average for me to find a medication that works for me.

Is that not a chance worth taking?

The medications that are commonly prescribed these days usually have mild side effects. They are not the first generation MAOIs or anti psychotics of the 50s and 60s. I know you said you had a bad experience with Zoloft, and I'm sorry, but that's information you could take to a doctor and it would help him or her in choosing a next step. "Oh, that didn't work for you and a, b, c happened when you took it? Well that means we shouldn't try x or y but we can try z."

Yes, there are some doctors out there who won't take the time and care to think about it like that, but you're looking for one who clicks with you enough that they will. I think kamineko said it perfectly:

The greatest challenge to all of this (besides the frustration of experimenting with various medications) lies in finding professionals that "click" with you. These are well-educated professionals, sure, but they may or may not "get" you as well as you would like. It has, over the years, hardly seemed worth trying at times, but at the end of the day everybody has to decide for themselves whether they wish to address these problems or not.

The biggest challenge is finding someone who you feel comfortable with.

You didn't talk about what happened in therapy, you vividly described the super powers you walked out of therapy with but glossed over how they were obtained. Are there magic words that the therapist says to make things better or something? I don't understand how you walk into a place, someone talks to you for an hour a few times and you walk out cured of illness. That sounds.... crazy.

Is relearning behavior a super power? If so yes, yes I am slowly learning super powers.
And no, I am far from cured. My anxiety and my despair are part of who I am. Without them I wouldn't have my thoughtfulness, my attention to detail, my compassion. I'd rather not cure those.

Yes and that's why a doctor guessing what medication I should be taking doesn't seem scientific at all. Same for therapy. What magic words could you say to cure a person of their cancer? Everything I've read suggests that this stuff is just as useless and pseudo-science as those cleanse things, herbal medicine and prayer. When I question how these various things helped a few times and in every instance, instead of answering, I was given a list of results.

First of all, what are you reading? Can you link me to it? Because many methods of talk therapy have been repeatedly scientifically proven to be effective in lessening symptoms of a whole wide variety of mental health issues.

Second of all, it's not magic. What magic pixels show up on your computer screen that make you happy? What magic noise do we hear that makes us cry at a dramatic play or movie? The point isn't the words, it's the meaning they confer.

And, as kamineko said, it's about learning about your behavioral patterns and, with the guidance and instruction of a therapist, learning to change them. I didn't gain superpowers from therapy, I just learned a bunch of new ways to react to and interface with the feelings I have.

Medication (psychiatry) has lessened my awful emotions enough that I can reasonably develop behavioral methods (therapy) for dealing with them. Does that make sense?

And the only way I could be more specific about what happens in therapy is to describe an appointment of mine, but that would be of no use to anyone but me. My experience in therapy is completely personalized to my needs. A therapist doesn't just quack out the same quips of life advice to every patient, he or she takes the time to get to know his patient and gives specific instructions on how to relearn the behavioral patterns that contribute to your feeling the way you feel.

Surely you cannot deny understanding how relearning behavior works unless you refuse the entire premise of behavioral patterns being an aspect of mental illness?

I hope this was illuminating for you. Let me know if you have any questions.

<3

 

[redlegs87]

Ok so I am 27 and been pretty much a hermit since HS ended. I live at home with family and rely on them for transport and all other kinds of stuff. I am very overweight and struggled with depression since my teen years. I was probably at my lowest near the end of last year smoking and eating myself to an early death. One day I woke up and had enough.

Stopped smoking regular cigarettes in December and am now going to the gym to lose weight. I've made doctors appointments even though I am gravely afraid of going to doctors and just receiving bad news. I am going to be making appointments for my mental health as well very soon. Going to try and get my drivers license again so I don't have to rely on others anymore. Change is difficult and scary I've had to make super small goals that feel achievable and not out of reach.

It's amazing what you can do when you put your mind to it. I have gone from trying to eat and smoke myself to death to well not do that and become more. I still have my bad days I wish I didn't exist but I power through and once I go to my appointments those will get easier as well. I guess what I am getting at is don't give up seek help from anywhere possible.

/streamofconsciousnessramblings

 

[Woorloog]

One day I woke up and had enough.

Did anything special (or just something unusual) happen or what?

My panic attack kind of finally shocked me to look at getting an appointment for a doctor (and a dentist), though i'm not sure how long i can keep up this "promise" (i have excellent promise-ignoring skills).
Because i've had stuff happen before.
I did visit a therapist once (that is, a few times). Unfortunately it didn't help any, the therapist never gave any instructions or anything, i just kind of talked.. except that doesn't help me at all. Got kind of annoyed after the final session and stopped visiting.


(Still looking through the goddamn sites for doctors/dentists, such a fucking mess. Perhaps i should become a web-designer and somehow get to design something useful for them...)

Oh, look, fuck My important stuff tomorrow requires waking up early (mostly because traveling takes an hour). Fucking great (I'm the sort who prefers sleeping late and staying up late).