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Metro Last Light dev: 'Wii U has horrible, slow CPU' [Up: DICE dev comments]
- Thread starter PrivateRyan
- Start date
The Wii U version is the only version.
PigSpeakers
Member
It's okay guys! Graphics don't matter anyways! They didn't for the wii and they won't for the wii u!
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Honestly, whether the GPU has the minimum 80-160 shaders or 320, its still way way more than the 360's 48. I know thats kind of a dishonest way to look at it since the 360s were more primitive and less flexible but did more work, but either way even if its a freakin R710 it should stomp the Xbox360's gpu on paper. Might be choked by the RAM speed but the GPU itself, outside of the lackluster everything else, is just significantly more modern than the 360.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The Darksiders II developers fed us this same bullshit. And it's not just Wii U that people have told this sort of lie about. Remember how much Terminal Reality talked up the (as it turns out, pathetic) PS3 version of Ghostbusters?
Poimandres
Member
I know they're not the same! Exclusivity matters for sure.
I just bought up Bayo because it's a high profile Wii U title with similar sales. If they bag a few titles like Metro that look/run better on Wii U, or are exclusive, all of a sudden you ARE looking at system sellers.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
This is simply false, depending on where the issues are it could most certainly cripple even a powerful system (which I'm not claiming WiiU is, but still, moderately more powerful, if it is, is a lot better than barely on par or whatever people speculate or want to claim right now).
See Skyrim PC gaining a ~40% performance boost with just a few tweaks done by a fan. That took it from horrible but playable to quite smooth all things considered on my old rig (outside certain areas that still can cripple it, like that one city), but it most certainly helped better rigs as well (it was later incorporated as an official patch though according to the original mod programmer it could have yielded 100% (this might be wrong, but still it was a big number) performance gain if Bethesda had optimized it from the start and in depth.
We don't know if it's a similar case for these ports but it very well could be due to the differences, from the processor being able to do out of order processing to the WiiU having extra bits and pieces meant to be utilized for things like sound processing, the edram, and who knows what else. Most of this is not magically enabled by the system itself if the games are made to run on different architecture to begin with but it's also not necessarily a task that will require many resources every time one wants to do a port. Knowing what needs to be done during development could resolve issues as well, even if WiiU still isn't going to be a priority compared to established systems.
Ports are simply not a priority for the publishers this early in the system's life. Perhaps eventually it will be almost as simple as flipping a switch in the engine. Once they actually learn how to take advantage of it, it could well be a matter of repeating the same thing for every game, rather than trying to figure it out from scratch every time which of course wouldn't be ideal.
As for PS4/Nextbox ports, those could in fact be more (or as) viable as current gen ports since even if those systems are a lot more powerful they could perhaps utilize more similar architecture too, with all the same tech elements (as outlined earlier), which could mean they merely turn a few bells and whistles down/off and then downscale the content itself rather than rework the game and engine extensively like they had to do for the Wii COD ports and perhaps should but don't do for PS360 ports. We'll sadly have to wait and see.
As for people taking this guy's talk as fact, I don't think a studio that in the end didn't even attempt to port past their "early look" will know better than even those who did attempt to port and didn't do a very good job at it (ie the currently available botched ports). So, yeah, maybe it's slower when utilized with other crossplatform engines not optimized for WiiU, maybe it's slow universally, again, we'll see.
No, diffrent designs and implimentations of both hardware and software make it kind of apples and oranges until we know more.
This is exactly what I've been thinking.
Google should help you see the truth.Very funny.
I'm serious, here!
Weak compared to PS360? no, Blops2 proves that (rendering twice for the MP). Weak compared to Orbis and Durango? that's a given.
This is what I don't get with the wiiu. Is is for casuals, children, die hards or what?
Nintendo seems to be trying to get the core, with games like bayonetta 2, zombiu, etc, but at the same time releases a console weeker then 6 years old hardware. will not the core rather wait for a graphical jump with ps4 and x720? I really don ' t get this.
Nintendo seems to be trying to get the core, with games like bayonetta 2, zombiu, etc, but at the same time releases a console weeker then 6 years old hardware. will not the core rather wait for a graphical jump with ps4 and x720? I really don ' t get this.
Well, I'll be.
I see what you are saying somewhat but games like Metro are not the type to move many units of WiiU.
It seems suited to much different experiences.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Haha, this is so great.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It's for people who will like its library once and if it actually develops reasonably. So, not any time soon I guess. I'd say I'll give it a year but that depends on the other systems too, I think I'd wait a year after all three are out to decide which to get in addition to PC. The Wii was a great companion for it until it died (but still I was never starved since PC has so many varied releases), WiiU (or PS4/Nextbox) could be too.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
You´re living in denial and pathetic. What would a dev who made an extremely competent game graphically knows about graphics, huh? I´m glad that you fan logic is lost on most people here.
Raitosaito
Member
It's strange how anyone can blame 4A for seeing the WiiU for what it is.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Regardless of Metro's sales potential it is unfortunate for Nintendo that a developer is saying stuff like this out in the open.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
Very funny.
I'm serious, here!
It is the only version but Ubi has said they were able to implement
new graphics/lighting features other systems can't do.
clearly you don't find it that hard, which ever group you choose to believe that means that the other one must be telling "lies". In reality the "truth" is likely found somewhere in the middle.
A4 has done nothing wrong. They have been outspoken and clearly laid out the way they like to develop games. That is fine and a fresh take on PR. Not every dev needs to chase the same dream as everyone else. Let A4 do games like they want, and if Nintendo's principles are too alien to them, then that's that.
airmangataosenai
Member
I think it's obvious they're just another lazy dev who can't handle the sheer amazing power of the Wii U.
It's nice of them to be that honest and that open, but I think they may have burnt a bridge with that comment.
I think you're intellectualizing it too much.
Does it have the game you have already (or coming soon) -> go for it.
if not, don't.
Your issues for Nintendo strategies are interesting, and I'm curious too see how it will evolve. But I wouldn't link it with my purchase impulse.
Sentenza
Member
The funny thing is: I took for granted that it was going to be more powerful, and yet I would have found embarrassing even if the console was just marginally superior (let's say 2X-3X, in general terms).
Turned out that in many ways it's even inferior, which is somehow hilarious when you think that we are talking about 6-7 years old tech and even some smartphones and tablets are starting to match that level of hardware capabilities.
Didnt Nintendo try the cutting edge route with N64 and Gamecube? It didnt work back then and those were very much hardcore oriented.
Why would the result be any different if Nintendo suddenly threw itself full force againt Sony and MS this time? It would not result in any more success.
Why would the result be any different if Nintendo suddenly threw itself full force againt Sony and MS this time? It would not result in any more success.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
the only problem I have with using these as quotes is that you're referencing the gpu not the cpu. IIRC certain tasks are better handled by the cpu or the gpu. Physics for example.
While GPU's are making up ground quickly, and even surpassing the cpu in many cases, the programming is playing catch up to the potential and so many of the tasks that have been relegated to the cpu are still being programmed with it in mind.
If metroLL is heavy on cpu resources then it wont matter how much better the gpu is, there will still be descrepencies where the ps3/360 can out perform the wii-u. Something like speed is pretty crucial. A developer trying to push hardware will have a hard time rewriting their pipeline to deal with a slower cpu.
I think as the developers play with the console more, they're find creative ways to push the beast further, but until a couple more years there will be developer ocmplaints, and mis-matches in quality.
It's not about being cutting edge, it's about not being incredibly cheap and using bargain bin components.
It kept the cost of the console down.
Im fine with it.
Its cheap instead of ludicrously expensive.
Metro Last Light will be better optimized according to them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ND2hvLGVQY
Well, that was back in August 2011. Perhaps they added graphical stuff in the meantime.
pieatorium
Member
If their current game won't be making it over I doubt whatever their next project is will be on it's way either.
I would have paid that. A few buck more and Wii U would have had a much better initial showing.
Without touchscreen controller, 25GB drive, 32GB flash, USB extensible.
Does split screen on 360 drop framerate?
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
I haven't really been following the system closely. Do we have any idea what the CPU in this thing is based on? Wouldn't a tri-core version of the Wii CPU running at 1.5ghz or so handily outpace the Xenon in most aspects? It's hard to believe that they could have shot lower than reiterating on a 15 year old design...
I guess since Nintendo don't seem to base many gameplay designs on complex physics, AI etc they must have decided to give the GPU the bulk of their TDP budget. Which is hilarious considering the go to justification of the systems capabilities will probably be "but graphics don't matter!"
I guess since Nintendo don't seem to base many gameplay designs on complex physics, AI etc they must have decided to give the GPU the bulk of their TDP budget. Which is hilarious considering the go to justification of the systems capabilities will probably be "but graphics don't matter!"
And that's perfectly ok, because it's their responsibility and their mentality. And they must realise it as well. There are idealists in this industry, they are just spoken about/outspoken very seldomly.
I think it's still very much families, but they realise that families want HD now. The core games were always there on Wii to some degree, but also Nintendo is trying to pitch the machine as relatively easy to port to. I think that's true - although many of the ports are on par or slightly below 360/PS3, they were probably done with minimal budget, tight timescales and poor devkits/documentation as the platform matured.
So for families looking to buy a HD Wii or wanting Nintendo games, there is a decent chance that 'it also has these popular franchises' helps stop them from looking at the PS3/360 as alternatives. That's a good business call.
For the core gamer? I don't realistically think you're buying a wiiU for ACIII, you're buying it for Nintendo properties. You most likely already have a 360/PS3 with friends lists built up, and are looking forward to the next one. You might have been curious or hoped that wiiU would give you a nicer Multiplatform experience during 2013 while you are waiting, and might be disappointed on that front so far, but that wasn't your primary reason for buying it.
You generally don't just "turn a few bells and whistles off" to scale down to a much weaker CPU. That's easier for graphics.
But it isn't really. It's as expensive as 360 was 6 years ago.
Not a dumb move at all. One of the selling points of the Wii U for me (and I think a big one for Japan) is it's size and power efficiency.
Yeah but Nintendo can't sell hardware with a big loss. They need to turn it into profit much faster than M$ or Sony. And the gamepad is the thing that sells "value" to people if anything.
It's definitely aimed for the whole family just like all Nintendo platforms have been since the first "Nintendo Entertainment System". They aren't after the hardcore anymore.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
You don't think that if Nintendo went all powerful with WiiU the price will not go up? Of course it will.
Fixed.
They always fall for the hype.