But what good did his campaign do to his business and brand but damages now?
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Michael Moore: Trump never wanted to win. Purposefully sabotaging his campaign
- Thread starter Smellycat
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But what good did his campaign do to his business and brand but damages now?
Ozymandias
Clint Beastwood
Banned
Trump probably had no intention of winning because he knows he shouldn't have even made it this far. Now that he's this close? I don't think he's sabotaging it, he's just an idiot and has nothing other than build a wall and get Muslims out, but he doesn't even have a plan for how to do that.
It's way too late to play catch up in terms of being an actual politician. He still has the racists to support him though, and if he made it this far we shouldn't underestimate how many racist shitheads there are in this country.
It's way too late to play catch up in terms of being an actual politician. He still has the racists to support him though, and if he made it this far we shouldn't underestimate how many racist shitheads there are in this country.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
When was the last time Moore was really relevant? MAYBE with Sicko, and even then, that wasn't nearly as much of a splash as his previous works.
Between his silly "5 reasons Donald Trump will win" article, and now this, it's pretty clear the guy is mostly interested in getting hits, and not in actually contributing substantively to political discourse. Not that his films necessarily did that, either, but at least they were immaculately crafted and entertaining, whereas his writing is dull and flat.
The Moores and Mahers of the world - smug 40- and 50-something liberal white guys - simply do not have the clout and respect they once did.
Clockwork5
Member
He is not wrong.
Trump wants an HRC presidency just as much as GAF does.
Trump wants an HRC presidency just as much as GAF does.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Maher is 60.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Moore is 62. Was referencing when they made their splashes, not their current ages, but my phrasing was off.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I'm sorry but this just makes too much sense. I don't really have an opinion either way on Moore, but I really feel Trump went into this thinking he was never going to make it out of the primaries. That inflammatory Mexican comment was meant to disqualify him outright. Little did he realize that the Republicans are now the party of the racist fearmonger and it went over gangbusters, so he doubled down, thinking his bare bones primary victory would work in the general.
Trump's entire campaign smacks of someone who didn't give actually winning the least bit of thought. Comparatively speaking he put next to zero money into his primary campaign, is putting next to zero into his election campaign, and puts his foot into his mouth on almost a DAILY basis. Trump is a guy trying to disqualify himself so he doesn't have to lose.
I mean, when that report came out that his son went to Kasich and told him that he wanted him to do all the work while Trump was just the figurehead, that sealed it for me.
Trump's entire campaign smacks of someone who didn't give actually winning the least bit of thought. Comparatively speaking he put next to zero money into his primary campaign, is putting next to zero into his election campaign, and puts his foot into his mouth on almost a DAILY basis. Trump is a guy trying to disqualify himself so he doesn't have to lose.
I mean, when that report came out that his son went to Kasich and told him that he wanted him to do all the work while Trump was just the figurehead, that sealed it for me.
BlastProcessing
Member
The fatal flaw with this theory is that Trump has been the exact same person saying the exact same shit since 2008. He absolutely realizes that the GOP is the party of racist fearmongers! He has been their high priest for the entire Obama Administration.
Warm Machine
Member
You can believe that Trump has a legitimate shot at being president while also believing he doesn't want the job. The public can make him president.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
How is that fatal? Even if he did know (which admittedly is just as likely) him espousing that was no guarantee to victory.
The real convincing points (to me) are the absolute lack of spending in both the primaries and the general. Trump recently laid his finger down on the RNC, telling them they better not cheap out trying to get him elected, yet still has laid down very little of his own cash. I know the overall opinion of Trump is low on this board, but even he knows that you can't win an election without a huge financial backing.
Well there is the possibility that Trump is trying to sabotage his own campaign but could end up winning because there are people who want to "shake things up".
Exactly.
BlastProcessing
Member
Trump has a tight feedback loop. He only looks at Breitbart and other Alt-Right Media and his rally crowds for validation. He absolutely thinks that he is a special snowflake who is changing American politics.
I think assuming Trump's massive ego is in charge is more plausible than assuming he has been playing 4th-dimensional chess this whole time.
This whole narrative and every other one like it grossly underestimates the American people.
His nomination was absurd and nobody thought it was going to happen, but it was still only accomplished by him getting one third of one half of the potential primary voters on his side. The majority isn't going to elect a dangerous, bigoted, rambling lunatic to "change things up" and that's why he's getting absolutely hammered in the polls.
That's why Hilary Clinton - the least popular democrat nominee in forever - is a 9:1 favorite to be the next President.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Who said anything about 4th dimensional chess? I don't see how this theory paints Trump as anything but an oaf who is in way over his head.
As I said earlier - Trumps son went to Kasich before Pence was picked and basically asked him if he wanted to be president in everything but name:
One day this past May, Donald Trumps eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., reached out to a senior adviser to Gov. John Kasich of Ohio, who left the presidential race just a few weeks before. As a candidate, Kasich declared in March that Trump was really not prepared to be president of the United States, and the following month he took the highly unusual step of coordinating with his rival Senator Ted Cruz in an effort to deny Trump the nomination. But according to the Kasich adviser (who spoke only under the condition that he not be named), Donald Jr. wanted to make him an offer nonetheless: Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?
When Kasichs adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his fathers vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.
Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?
Making America great again was the casual reply.
chrisPjelly
Member
"Says who?"
Bounceounce
Member
Not a Michael Moore fan but this is a pretty shitty comment.
Everyone needs a voice.
Edit
lus I'm not really sure what it meansNoctisVsStar
Member
Batzi
7DollarHagane
Banned
This is a dumb article. It may be true but unless other people corroborated it I always assume this guy is as full of hot creamy shit as trump is.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Not a Michael Moore fan but this is a pretty shitty comment.
Everyone needs a voice.
Edit
I wasn't passing moral judgment on the shift one way or another. I actually do not care for the direction liberalism is going in, in most respects. My comment was meant to be descriptive - Moore is not relevant anymore, because liberalism is drifting toward an intersectionalism that leaves little room for dudes like him, so he is grasping at straws and putting out clickbaity things to try to get attention back on him.
Allforce
Member
If we're just theorizing a bit it really makes more sense for Trump the businessman to lose here than it does to win. He's got Ailes and the Breitbart guy on his team now, it's all shaping up for him to start some sort of ultra right-wing news network after this is all said and done. Despite the idiocy the guy just draws attention and investors don't give two fucks which side you're on as long as people are watching.
Despite cable cutter doom and gloom owning a goddamn CABLE CHANNEL is one of the most lucrative positions to be in. There's a big reason why Oprah started one, the numbers are staggering at what the cable providers pay these channels on a per-viewer basis. Even at the low end you're talking about massive profits for cheap-to-produce programming for a news network, something like 92% of US homes still have cable despite the decline.
Despite cable cutter doom and gloom owning a goddamn CABLE CHANNEL is one of the most lucrative positions to be in. There's a big reason why Oprah started one, the numbers are staggering at what the cable providers pay these channels on a per-viewer basis. Even at the low end you're talking about massive profits for cheap-to-produce programming for a news network, something like 92% of US homes still have cable despite the decline.
BlastProcessing
Member
I know the Kasich story and it fits with Trump's MO. He is a leader, not a doer. That's what he has always been. That's how he runs his companies and nobody is claiming that he was intentionally sabotaging those.
For Moore's story to work we should be able to see Trump act differently in different stages of his campaign. We don't see that at all. Donald Trump is 100% trying to win. This is what he is.
Dirtyshubb
Member
https://youtu.be/8qIQbydyHwc
Cracked did a pretty great video on this idea.
Cracked did a pretty great video on this idea.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Not really. We saw similar vs Cruz at the end. Now though there is an even bigger spotlight on him and he is trailing badly to Hillary.
I wasn't annoyed by your comment about Moore. He's a fool. But I'm not sure minorities and women own progressivism.
Muppet of a Man
Member
This has always been the case. People think I'm crazy for holding this position from the beginning. But it's the truth. I don't really think people know who Donald Trump is. Most have just really heard about him recently or have known him as a tv personality: the "you're fired" guy. We've had to deal with this jerk-off for decades in the NYC metro area. What he is is a sleazy wheeling-and-dealing opportunist. More of a con artist than a business man. But at the end of the day, he is a New Yorker. Historically, there's been no indication that he's been politically aligned with any of the crazy far right positions that's been coming out of his mouth this election. The established corporate and political machines there are his wheel house and life support. What's good for NYC is good for him. And who represented the interests of NYC for many years? You guessed it!
SuperBanana
Banned
Michael Moore said Donald Trump will probably win and now he's saying he never had any intention of winning. So which is it?
CecilRousso
Member
Does those two statements really contradict each other?
he's a cheapass and he probably doesn't have that much money to spend. thats why he's begging the GOP for support (financially) and his campaign manager had those back door cash payments from russia.
remember a few days ago he said in a speech "man i spent like 75 million on this campaign, if i don't win i'll never forgive you guys"
Time allows people to change their opinions. Back then, it looked like Trump had a vague chance of winning, but with how his campaign has tanked since obtaining the Republican nomination, it has become obvious that Trump realises he will be thoroughly humiliated if he reaches voting day.
It's good when people change their minds, it shows that they're listening and observing. Think what you want about Moore, but don't be offended when someone changes their opinions for the better.
In the 90's he wanted to kill five black children. He's made countless remarks that came off as racist besides that, far before the election. He's just a dick.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Totally agree. The democratic party is moving leftward, especially on social issues, and in doing so it's becoming difficult for a middle-aged white guy to be the voice of the party. I watch Maher pretty often and can't help but feel that he's falling out of step with the pulse of the present day democratic party, especially when it comes to issues regarding muslims and the middle east. In this transition, it's hard for your Maher's and Moore's to stay relevant. Jon Stewart was maybe the only exception, but he was smart about having a team of correspondents that was diverse and young. Especially if you look at his lineup post-2006ish. The lineup went from guys like Colbert, Carrell, Rob Coordry and Ed Helms to the current lineup with Trevor Noah which has a total of one white person, and he usually plays the role of a guy who is oblivious to others' problems, which is kinda indicative of why the left in the US isn't keen to listen to the Michael Moore's of the world any more.
Heh. I chuckled quitely at this.
It's not impossible for it to be both, just insanely unlikely.
Paracelsus
Member
I don't know what were you doing at the time, but iirc "Trump is a Clinton double agent" is one of the oldest tinfoils of the whole entire presidential race.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Lol Michael Moore, dude is way too leftist that even IF he said something I agree with he takes it too far and I end up disagreeing
Discotheque
Banned
Sometimes I'm inclined to believe this because he says the most outrageous things. It really does feel like intentional self sabotage.
But eh it's a bit too tinfoily a theory as well
But eh it's a bit too tinfoily a theory as well
ZackieChan
Member
Me too. I love Moore. Not sure why he is so hated on this forum. Haven't seen his last couple movies, but the heel turn from liberals here is confusing me.
Already Torn
Banned
It's not just inherently ridiculous to claim something this elaborate based on absolutely no evidence, but this also contradicts the claims we've heard from staff members about Trump's sullen behavior and confusion about his poll numbers. Unless he's so good of an actor that all of that was a convincing ruse, in which case he should be going to Hollywood to make money instead of Washington.
However, I could see Trump claiming this as well in a few months regardless of how true it is. "I knew the system was rigged by Crooked Hillary, I just wanted to give REAL AMERICANS a voice" or whatever.
However, I could see Trump claiming this as well in a few months regardless of how true it is. "I knew the system was rigged by Crooked Hillary, I just wanted to give REAL AMERICANS a voice" or whatever.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I personally don't mind Moore, but I can see why he's being left behind for new voices.
BrassDragon
Member
Nah, still way too much credit for a vapid blowhard coasting on his family's money.
Just listen to the way Trump speaks or look at his rambling writing. I don't believe for a second he's able to formulate a long-term objective and follow through on it. All his thinking is geared towards being awesome and dominant in the now. There's no grand strategy, no failed master plan. 'Winning' is the extent of his planning.
Just listen to the way Trump speaks or look at his rambling writing. I don't believe for a second he's able to formulate a long-term objective and follow through on it. All his thinking is geared towards being awesome and dominant in the now. There's no grand strategy, no failed master plan. 'Winning' is the extent of his planning.
Yes. Maybe he's trying to save face after overreacting before? Either way it's pretty hilarious.
You really think his films are "immaculately crafted"? Which ones?
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