Support NeoGAF

[Heckler456]

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

As a black person that deals with racism every fucking day, you need to sit down and shut up.

They're just words. I can't believe how dim some people are.

I feel like I'd be banned on the spot if I tried to argue you on this.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Can't we just be honest with each other? You would honestly say that, for games like Bloodborne and Persona 5, there were more people audible wishing it came to xbox than there were people wishing they "just release it on PC, I don't get why don't just do it, what's the point of console exclusives."

I think that you're exaggerating the presence of both of those groups of whiners here on GAF. But yeah. I would, in fact, say that much, honestly speaking. Especially regarding Bloodborne. We were both on GAF when that game came out, right? lol.

That's another form it takes, the frequent lamenting of console exclusives as a whole. Or mentioning in a thread "man, can you imagine if x amazing first party developer released their game on PC! They'd look so good!" I see those things happen far more often than I see PC exclusive threads being overwhelmed by these types of comment by console gamers.

I definitely think you're exaggerating this. I dunno, I wouldn't have used the bolded as a support for what you're saying because who the hell actually says that here? I've seen that sentiment in maybe one or two posts tops since becoming a GAF member, that's some Gamefaqs-level discourse.

 

[LordRaptor]

Except he didn't equate the two as a whole. He compared one aspect of the two to illustrate a separate point (zealotry). Said differently:

An apple is red.
A Nazi flag is red.

If somebody says he likes apples, is he also an antisemite?

I will try and explain this in incredibly simple terms in the hope that you understand it.

Someone who has never experienced racism describing being slightly annoyed by something as "like racism" is trivialising a serious issue.

Racism is a thing that is real. People have lost their jobs over it. People have lost their lives over it. It is not trivial.

It has no bearing - literally none - on "reasons group x does not want a PS4Pro".

If he wanted to use the word "zealotry", well, why didn't he fucking use that word? Or elitism? Or arrogance? Or prejudice? Or closed minded? Or the dozens of words that can be used as a pejorative adjective to buffer what is essentially a rather weak point?

e:
I'm not going to go all "check your privilege", but someone who has never encountered racism really fucking shouldn't equate it to minor annoyances

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I think Pachter is like a racist; he has no discernible benefit to society as a whole.

 

[MoonFrog]

I'm tempted by the PS4 as a platform, because it has Persona 5 and Bloodborne on it.

The PS4 Pro specifically does nothing for me, but not because I'm some kind of analogue for racists.

If P5 was not on PS3, FFXV looked super exciting and there weren't murmurings of a PC port, Shenmue 3 was PS4 exclusive, DQXI was PS4 exclusive (which it perhaps will be in the west), TLG turns out, etc. I'd buy a PS4 for those games and Bloodborne. I'm always open to being lured, but I'd probably just buy the new slim rather than the PS4 Pro.

Idk. Maybe I'd buy a Pro this holiday if I suddenly thought FFXV was the second coming as it seems like it gets a nice bump with that hardware. Thing is, I highly doubt I'll come around to seeing it that way.

 

[BKK]

Does playing on consoles and PC together make me some kind of freak outcast by both sides?

There's a term for that, it's called a "gamer". I think that we might even be in the majority.

 

[Corpekata]

Using Bloodborne on Xbox as an example is sure a good faith argument. Should stick to your Persona example, at least there it doesn't have obvious technical and legal barriers involved.

 

[mr teaspoon]

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

As a black person that deals with racism every fucking day, you need to sit down and shut up.

They're just words. I can't believe how dim some people are.

It's like you think I'm saying racism doesn't exist. Talk about dim.

Of course it does, and it's obscene and horrific.

But (and I'm sorry to keep referring back to George Carlin, but he just did it so well), it's the racist asshole that you need to worry about, not the word racism. That racists are out there doing racist shit doesn't mean the rest of us can't use the word as a descriptor or in an analogy.

edit:

I will try and explain this in incredibly simple terms in the hope that you understand it.

Someone who has never experienced racism describing being slightly annoyed by something as "like racism" is trivialising a serious issue.

Racism is a thing that is real. People have lost their jobs over it. People have lost their lives over it. It is not trivial.

It has no bearing - literally none - on "reasons group x does not want a PS4Pro".

Stop with this "never experienced racism" shit. Whether Michael Pachter has ever been the victim of racism is completely meaningless to the topic at hand. He's not brushing off racism, he's not addressing victims of racism, nothing like that. Essentially your argument is that because racism exists and is a grotesque thing, other people can't use the word with anything less than 100% seriousness and gravity. Fuck that.

Racism is not trivial, and I'd think much less of Pachter had he trivialized it; he didn't.

 

[Mass Effect]

What is the point, then? That racism is bad, so we shouldn't ever, ever, EVER be anything less than 100% serious about it?

Fuck that. Context is king, not words themselves. And I wonder how many of these moral crusaders have ever made a Hitler or _____ nazi joke.

Sounds like a whole bunch of you would be well served to watch this.

They're only words.

For instance, you take the word “Nigger.” There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word “Nigger” in and of itself. It’s the racist asshole who’s using it that you ought to be concerned about.

Hooo boy...

 

[Heckler456]

I think that you're exaggerating the presence of both of those groups of whiners here on GAF. But yeah. I would, in fact, say that much, honestly speaking.



I definitely think you're exaggerating this. I dunno, I wouldn't have used the bolded as a support for what you're saying because who the hell actually says that here? I've seen that sentiment in maybe one or two posts tops since becoming a GAF member, that's some Gamefaqs-level discourse.

Were you in the project beast leak thread? I feel like you would be agreeing with me if you were.

 

[RK9039]

Does playing on consoles and PC together make me some kind of freak outcast by both sides?

You should be ashamed of yourself. I think you should be deported from the PC community.

Fuck it, we should build a wall around console gamers until we can figure out what the hell is going on.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

That's obviously not true. You will always see much more PC users port begging than any other platform user there's no denying that.

This is actually not true. There are dozens and dozens of threads about PC games with portbegging posts.

 

[King Gilga]

For instance, you take the word “Nigger.” There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word “Nigger” in and of itself. It’s the racist asshole who’s using it that you ought to be concerned about.

We don’t care when Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphy say it. Why? Because we know they’re not racist.

They’re Niggers! Context. Context.

We don’t mind their context because we know they’re black.
Hey, I know I’m whitey, the blue-eyed devil, paddy, o-fay, gray boy, honkey mother-fucker myself. Don’t bother my ass.

Jesus fuck man shut the fuck up.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Were you in the project beast leak thread? I feel like you would be agreeing with me if you were.

Yeah, I remember that thread. Still can't find myself agreeing with that

 

[CO_Andy]

and here i thought PC gaming was about preservation

 

[Corpekata]

and here i thought PC gaming was about preservation

Preservation of the pure PC codeline.

 

[goldenpp72]

Not the best word, but they certainly can be snobbish about it which is pretty hilarious.

 

[mr teaspoon]

Jesus fuck man shut the fuck up.

No. I suggest you save your energy if that's all you're going to throw at me.

 

[MoonFrog]

It's like you think I'm saying racism doesn't exist. Talk about dim.

Of course it does, and it's obscene and horrific.

But (and I'm sorry to keep referring back to George Carlin, but he just did it so well), it's the racist asshole that you need to worry about, not the word racism. That racists are out there doing racist shit doesn't mean the rest of us can't use the word as a descriptor or in an analogy.

What work is it doing in the analogy? Not still on that zealotry stuff, right? You can just say over-zealous, which has a much different meaning than a zealous racist.

What about racism in particular makes the comparison apt instead of just ridiculous mislabeling that plays around with a delicate subject for no value added?

 

[Heckler456]

I will try and explain this in incredibly simple terms in the hope that you understand it.

Someone who has never experienced racism describing being slightly annoyed by something as "like racism" is trivialising a serious issue.

Racism is a thing that is real. People have lost their jobs over it. People have lost their lives over it. It is not trivial.

It has no bearing - literally none - on "reasons group x does not want a PS4Pro".

If he wanted to use the word "zealotry", well, why didn't he fucking use that word? Or elitism? Or arrogance? Or prejudice? Or closed minded? Or the dozens of words that can be used as a pejorative adjective to buffer what is essentially a rather weak point?

e:
I'm not going to go all "check your privilege", but someone who has never encountered racism really fucking shouldn't equate it to minor annoyances

Why aren't people more fervent in trying to get rid of this "master race" meme here on neogaf then? Even the mere mention in a joking manner should be shunned. Antisemitism is equally real, and a group of at least 600k PC gamers appropriating antisemitic/Nazi terminology is very troubling when you really think about it. It's like baby's first let's-look-at-this-group-of-people-as-inferior-based-on-some-facet-we-deem-undesirable.

 

[Corpekata]

Why aren't people more fervent in trying to get rid of this "master race" meme here on neogaf then? Even the mere mention in a joking manner should be shunned. Antisemitism is equally real, and a group of at least 600k PC gamers appropriating antisemitic/Nazi terminology is very troubling when you really think about it. It's like baby's first let's-look-at-this-group-of-people-as-inferior-in-some-way-or-another.

What threads do you see the PCMR in on Neogaf?

It's quite literally a bannable offense.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Why aren't people more fervent in trying to get rid of this "master race" meme here on neogaf then? Even the mere mention in a joking manner should be shunned. Antisemitism is equally real, and a group of at least 600k PC gamers appropriating antisemitic/Nazi terminology is very troubling when you really think about it. It's like baby's first let's-look-at-this-group-of-people-as-inferior-in-some-way-or-another.

Dude are you kidding me?

Nobody here laughs when someone unironically uses 'PC Master Race' on GAF. Everyone shits on that person. Including PC gamers. Every time. I myself just shat on someone last week for using the phrase, and I wasn't the only one. And then that person gets banned.

 

[Simbabbad]

Comparing the sharing of some genetic traits you can't do anything about with the ownership of entertainment electronics is beyond idiotic. This isn't even worth discussing.

 

[GhostTrick]

Why aren't people more fervent in trying to get rid of this "master race" meme here on neogaf then? Even the mere mention in a joking manner should be shunned. Antisemitism is equally real, and a group of at least 600k PC gamers appropriating antisemitic/Nazi terminology is very troubling when you really think about it. It's like baby's first let's-look-at-this-group-of-people-as-inferior-based-on-some-facet-we-deem-undesirable.

Here on Neogaf ? It's a bannable offense. The only way it is used in here is to call out people by calling them mustard race or whatever.

 

[Spirited]

Why aren't people more fervent in trying to get rid of this "master race" meme here on neogaf then? Even the mere mention in a joking manner should be shunned. Antisemitism is equally real, and a group of at least 600k PC gamers appropriating antisemitic/Nazi terminology is very troubling when you really think about it. It's like baby's first let's-look-at-this-group-of-people-as-inferior-based-on-some-facet-we-deem-undesirable.

It's a bannable offense for someone to say seriously and people making fun of pc gamers doesn't get banned for using somehow.

 

[Heckler456]

What threads do you see the PCMR in on Neogaf?

It's quite literally a bannable offense.

Plenty of people in this very thread mentioned it, or posted those pictures.

Dude are you kidding me?

No, are you kidding me? If the word "racism" can't be used in the manner that was mentioned, then the word "master race" shouldn't really be up for debate either. I mean, come on.

 

[LordRaptor]

Racism is not trivial, and I'd think much less of Pachter had he trivialized it; he didn't.

I would love to hear how comparing not being interested in buying a PS4Pro to being racist is not trivialising what racism is.
That's not saying its impossible to make jokes about racism.
It's saying how he used it here is fucking inappropriate.

And yes, sorry, someone who has never experienced racism doesn't get to declare for themselves how appropriate their use of the term is.
Like someone who's never been raped doesn't get to declare when using rape as an adjective for a minor inconvenience is acceptable.

It's called empathy. But feel free to link some more George Carlin and completely miss his fucking point about context

e:

Why aren't people more fervent in trying to get rid of this "master race" meme here on neogaf then?

I would be thrilled if it was banned.

 

[The Cartographer]

and here i thought PC gaming was about preservation

Videogame eugenics!

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Why aren't people more fervent in trying to get rid of this "master race" meme here on neogaf then? Even the mere mention in a joking manner should be shunned. Antisemitism is equally real, and a group of at least 600k PC gamers appropriating antisemitic/Nazi terminology is very troubling when you really think about it. It's like baby's first let's-look-at-this-group-of-people-as-inferior-based-on-some-facet-we-deem-undesirable.

Wow... PCMR is a joke...

 

[Corpekata]

Plenty of people in this very thread mentioned it, or posted those pictures.



No, are you kidding me? If the word "racism" can't be used in the manner that was mentioned, then the word "master race" shouldn't really be up for debate either. I mean, come on.

Because it's the topic of the damned conversation, holy shit. Of course it will get discussed here.

 

[BKK]

I imagine that some who consider themselves as "PC gamers" are more concerned about themselves being compared to racists than any implied trivialisation of rasicm issues.

 

[derExperte]

Were you in the project beast leak thread? I feel like you would be agreeing with me if you were.

Were you? Were you in any of the already mentioned PC threads?

Why aren't people more fervent in trying to get rid of this "master race" meme here on neogaf then? Even the mere mention in a joking manner should be shunned. Antisemitism is equally real, and a group of at least 600k PC gamers appropriating antisemitic/Nazi terminology is very troubling when you really think about it. It's like baby's first let's-look-at-this-group-of-people-as-inferior-in-some-way-or-another.

It's getting brought up by console folks in a ratio of about 20:1 with 1 being one somewhat serious cringy dude who'll probably catch a ban. Meanwhile literally every thread about for example a PC version having problems has at least one 'ahaha PCMR my ass' post or comparable nonsense. Haven't seen you complain about those.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

No, are you kidding me? If the word "racism" can't be used in the manner that was mentioned, then the word "master race" shouldn't really be up for debate either. I mean, come on.

No. What I meant was:

Nobody here laughs when someone unironically uses 'PC Master Race' on GAF. Everyone shits on that person. Including PC gamers. Every time. I myself just shat on someone last week for using the phrase, and I wasn't the only one. And then that person gets banned.

Using the meme non-ironically, or not as a reference to its use, is a bannable offense around here, one that gets shit on all the time INCLUDING BY PC GAMERS. That's what I was responding to - your insinuation that PC gamers here on NeoGAF are somehow cool with PCMR or don't call that shit out when people use the phrase. That's, like, objectively false. Objectively.

 

[mr teaspoon]

What work is it doing in the analogy? Not still on that zealotry stuff, right? You can just say over-zealous, which has a much different meaning than a zealous racist.

No, in this context Pach was using the zealotry of some PC users in the same way that racists are zealots. Yeah, you *could* have said over-zealous. You can also say crimson when you mean red, and gross when you mean disgusting, and frigid when you mean cold; so what? There's nothing wrong with the way he used the word.

What about racism in particular makes the comparison apt instead of just ridiculous mislabeling that plays around with a delicate subject for no value added?

The bar for whether something is or isn't appropriate is not whether the word *in particular* makes the comparison apt. The comparison is apt is the words one uses make sense. In this context, they do.

Racists are bull-headed nitwits; Pach is saying that some PC users are also bull-headed nitwits. The English language is enormous and there are a ton of other words he could have used. That fact has zero bearing on whether what he said was inappropriate or not.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

I imagine that some who consider themselves as "PC gamers" are more concerned about themselves being compared to racists than any implied trivialisation of rasicm issues.

"I imagine some PC gamers are actual selfish racists". I mean, statistics tells you that a any group big enough may have them.

 

[Gattsu25]

I actually don't fault Pachter at all for saying this as so many PC gamers are appropriating nazi terminology in an attempt at lame edgy humor.

I say this as a gamer that almost exclusively games on PC.

 

[BKK]

"I imagine some PC gamers are actual selfish racists". I mean, statistics tells you that a any group big enough may have them.

Of course, I'm just commenting on the replies that I've read through in this thread,

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

 

[mr teaspoon]

I would love to hear how comparing not being interested in buying a PS4Pro to being racist is not trivialising what racism is.

Uh, I think the onus is on you to make a case for how it does.

And yes, sorry, someone who has never experienced racism doesn't get to declare for themselves how appropriate their use of the term is. Like someone who's never been raped doesn't get to declare when using rape as an adjective for a minor inconvenience is acceptable.

And someone who has experienced those things don't get to dictate to the rest of us how we should and shouldn't talk. I'm worried about actual racists, not Michael Pachter or anyone else making light-hearted analogies.

It's called empathy. But feel free to link some more George Carlin and completely miss his fucking point about context.

Oh, dude, GTFO. I was raised on Carlin, dude is the closest thing to going to church that I have. You can agree or disagree with me but don't for a second try to claim that I'm misrepresenting him when you're illustrating exactly the kind of BS he's talking about.

The problem is that you're trying to equivocate two things that aren't equivalent. Any moral person has empathy for victims in the world, it's a joke that I ever need to explain that to you. What Michael Pachter said doesn't make a joke out of any victim of racism. It all boils down to you wanting to be the language police and tell people whether they're qualified to use certain words or not; you aren't and they can.

 

[Heckler456]

No. What I meant was:


Using the meme non-ironically, or not as a reference to its use, is a bannable offense around here, one that gets shit on all the time INCLUDING BY PC GAMERS. That's what I was responding to - your insinuation that PC gamers here on NeoGAF are somehow cool with PCMR or don't call that shit out when people use the phrase. That's, like, objectively false. Objectively.

You specifying "non-ironically" inherently implies that the term is still used ironically, which really is equally bad if you believe that the word "racism" shouldn't be allowed to be used by way of analogy.

 

[MoonFrog]

No, in this context Pach was using the zealotry of some PC users in the same way that racists are zealots. Yeah, you *could* have said over-zealous. You can also say crimson when you mean red, and gross when you mean disgusting, and frigid when you mean cold; so what? There's nothing wrong with the way he used the word.



The bar for whether something is or isn't appropriate is not whether the word *in particular* makes the comparison apt. The comparison is apt is the words one uses make sense. In this context, they do.

Racists are bull-headed nitwits; Pach is saying that some PC users are also bull-headed nitwits. The English language is enormous and there are a ton of other words he could have used. That fact has zero bearing on whether what he said was inappropriate or not.

No. Racism is not about zealotry or about being a bull-headed nitwit. You can be a racist without being either of those things.

Racism is about hating people because of their perceived inherited race and thinking they are inferior.

The comparison is not apt, and I have no idea why you are trying so hard to make the shoe fit.

 

[LordRaptor]

It all boils down to you wanting to be the language police and tell people whether they're qualified to use certain words or not; you aren't and they can.

No dude, its me pointing out equating serious issues that you will never experience as being equivalent to minor annoyances that you might isn't cool.
You sure as shit are no George Carlin.

Shit, you're not even Dennis Leary.

 

[Spirited]

You specifying "non-ironically" inherently implies that the term is still used ironically, which really is equally bad if you believe that the word "racism" shouldn't be allowed to be used by way of analogy.

I don't think any pc gamers on this forum wants it allowed on this forum at all.
Absolutely not when the current situation is that it's only used to shit on pc gamers with.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

You specifying "non-ironically" inherently implies that the term is still used ironically, which really is equally bad if you believe that the word "racism" shouldn't be allowed to be used by way of analogy.

"or not as a reference to its use" should have probably been in parentheses to make it more clear that I was trying to preclude that exact response of yours by including it lol

 

[mr teaspoon]

No. Racism is not about zealotry or about being a bull-headed nitwit. You can be a racist without being either of those things.

Yes, but those qualities are often there and that's *so ball-achingly clearly how he meant it.*

No dude, its me pointing out equating serious issues that you will never experience as being equivalent to minor annoyances that you might isn't cool.
You sure as shit are no George Carlin.

No, I certainly am not. Didn't say anything even close to suggesting that I am. Just a fan. You, though, are illustrating that you disagree with him on many things.

But I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say at this point. Nobody is equivocating actual, real life racism with anything else. Not me, not Pach.

 

[Tagyhag]

I actually don't fault Pachter at all for saying this as so many PC gamers are appropriating nazi terminology in an attempt at lame edgy humor.

I say this as a gamer that almost exclusively games on PC.

How many is many? 5%? 10%? Over 50%?

How many times do you see it used on GAF? Because every time I do, it's a non-PC gamer using it.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

You specifying "non-ironically" inherently implies that the term is still used ironically, which really is equally bad if you believe that the word "racism" shouldn't be allowed to be used by way of analogy.

Using the PC Master Race meme here can absolutely result in a ban here. This has been true for years.

 

[LordRaptor]

Nobody is equivocating actual, real life racism with anything else. Not me, not Pach.

"Pc gamers are like racists"

 

[Corpekata]

You specifying "non-ironically" inherently implies that the term is still used ironically, which really is equally bad if you believe that the word "racism" shouldn't be allowed to be used by way of analogy.

Maybe you can find the goalposts you keep moving along with all the examples of PCMR usage that's apparently approved on this forum.

 

[BKK]

No. Racism is not about zealotry or about being a bull-headed nitwit. You can be a racist without being either of those things.

Racism is about hating people because of their perceived inherited race and thinking they are inferior.

Whilst I agree with your first point, the second isn't necessarily true. People can be racist against other races without any inherent feelings of inferiority or superiority, human nature isn't always as nice as we'd like it to be.