• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Michelle Obama: Women who didn't vote for Clinton “voted against their own voice”

JCHandsom

Member
Not moderate in the slightest - in my eyes there is no voice for the true left in American politics. Clinton is too right wing for me.

Who speaks more for women, Clinton or Trump? Who would prove themselves the better advocate?

Because if the answer is Clinton, then yes, the women who voted for Trump voted against their best interest.
 
Internalized sexism is a hell of a drug. Some women believe, on a very deep subconscious level, that it's wrong for a woman to reach higher and demand more, to be as assertive and demanding as their male counterparts.

My wife is the exact opposite of that, it's why I love her. She's my peer and my partner, the idea of her being subservient to me is disgusting.
 

PixelatedBookake

Junior Member
Yep. They definitely voted against their own self-interests. Same as any black person who voted for the guy. Hell, I'd even go as far to say half the white males who voted for Trump voted against their own self-interests and didn't know it.
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Yep. They definitely voted against their own self-interests. Same as any black person who voted for the guy. Hell, I'd even go as far to say half the white males who voted for Trump voted against their own self-interests and didn't know it.

basically anyone that doesn't work at Boeing. give that a few days though and I'm sure they'll be on board too.
 
You can't discount that some or even a lot of these women are perhaps religious/christian. That's probably why they didn't care when Trump said all those nasty things, because they were only interested in having a "follower of christ/pro-life candidate" in the oval office, and not someone who just happened to have the same gender as them.

And yes, I realize the extreme irony that "devout Christ follower" yet "makes extremely violent/derogatory anti-women comments" is in the same sentence. But again, if they're die-hard religious, that's how far they're willing to go no matter the hypocrisy.
So they chose to vote for someone that isn’t even religious?

A bunch of contradictions these people are, I’d rather they just come out and be honest about how they really feel.
 

The Kree

Banned
This is absolutely true and doesn't get brought up enough. Only a small slice of white people actually benefit from a Trump administration.

Like how many different levels of sexist is it that we all expected the women to know better and expected the men not to? LOL
 

watershed

Banned
They definitely voted against their own best interest. Trump already revoked some equal pay regulations and isn't doing anything to improve society's views towards women.
 
Plenty of (most older) women out there that shit on their own gender in the the sorts of ways you would think only an ignorant man could do. The nonsense I heard this past election was mind-boggling.
 
This posits that all women are in the same boat, the same Borg-like entity that benefits or doesn't benefit from the same things. In reality there are a lot of women, specifically white women, who are doing quite fine with Trump as president, and likely stand to gain. A lot of white women know full and well that they benefit from the type of society Trump (and many/most republicans) envision, and that their children will benefit from it. A good deal of that 53% of white women who voted for Trump voted for their best interests. That's a fact.

I tend to find complaints about identity politics to be weak, but if there's a criticism it's this. It doesn't matter how many white men fill Trump's cabinet, or visit the White House, or do anything else. He could have had the most "diverse" cabinet ever, and the ideologies would be the exact same. The same greed, disdain for the poor, criminality, white supremacy - white women are more than capable of exhibiting all of those traits. As are some non-whites (Ben Carson comes to mind). And those are the type of people Trump surrounds himself with.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I mean, if she had said 'women who voted for Trump voted against their own voice", that would be the most obvious thing ever.

And as much as i am frustrated by it, i even find it reasonable if we're talking about pressuring swing state voters in the general specifically. Even Noam Chomsky admitted that holding your nose and voting for Clinton was really the only option against Trump, if you were in a swing state. Not in a swing state don't bother.

But if we're talking about the primaries and the election itself, that's significantly more problematic of a viewpoint to have and i dont agree period.

Between Trump and Clinton, if you had to vote for one of the two of them, like in the general, then yes, Clinton is the obvious choice. But if Michelle Obama is saying that the entire election, we were wrong to hold primaries and have people challenge Clinton on her weaknesses or even challenge her to be the nominee, then that IMO is wrong, and is not even worth consideration. What's scary about that is this is the view Clinton herself is arguing, that Sanders was wrong to get in the primary and 'harm her', as if she didn't have the same weaknesses that Trump could have exploited without Sanders help.

That is not a valid argument, everything else i'm cool with.
 
That's a criticism that can only come from within the community of women, and the same is true about any minority group.

Which also means I'm a little uncomfortable with all the likely male voices here chiming in to agree.
 
That's a criticism that can only come from within the community of women, and the same is true about any minority group.

Which also means I'm a little uncomfortable with all the likely male voices here chiming in to agree.

But not by those who disagree?

Considering the history of Republican attacks on women’s rights it doesn’t seem like esoteric knowledge
 
But not by those who disagree?

Considering the history of Republican attacks on women’s rights it doesn’t seem like esoteric knowledge

Seriously, some people in this thread are trying the hardest to appear as progressive and feminist as possible and completely forget that there's an actual sexual predator sitting in the White House right now.
 

Jeels

Member
This is absolutely true and doesn't get brought up enough. Only a small slice of white people actually benefit from a Trump administration.

It's because there is a segment of white people that think they are gonna be millionares one day and vote based on that (and this applies to some minorities too)

And then there's the white people who want to fuck minorities so bad they just forget overlook or don't care they are fucking themselves too.
 
I mean, if she had said 'women who voted for Trump voted against their own voice", that would be the most obvious thing ever.

And as much as i am frustrated by it, i even find it reasonable if we're talking about pressuring swing state voters in the general specifically. Even Noam Chomsky admitted that holding your nose and voting for Clinton was really the only option against Trump, if you were in a swing state. Not in a swing state don't bother.

But if we're talking about the primaries and the election itself, that's significantly more problematic of a viewpoint to have and i dont agree period.

Between Trump and Clinton, if you had to vote for one of the two of them, like in the general, then yes, Clinton is the obvious choice. But if Michelle Obama is saying that the entire election, we were wrong to hold primaries and have people challenge Clinton on her weaknesses or even challenge her to be the nominee, then that IMO is wrong, and is not even worth consideration. What's scary about that is this is the view Clinton herself is arguing, that Sanders was wrong to get in the primary and 'harm her', as if she didn't have the same weaknesses that Trump could have exploited without Sanders help.

That is not a valid argument, everything else i'm cool with.

It is in the context of Trump v Hillary; it has very little to do with Sanders.
 
It has absolutely nothing to do with Sanders, except for in the minds of those still obsessed with a primary he badly lost.
Lost?

Or stolen?

mwVPnEI.gif
 

ccbfan

Member
People in this topic really don't understand how a little a good percent of the women in the country (probably over 40 percent) give a shit about a women's right to abort. To many it's not about reproductive right it's about the right to murder.

Hell I'll go as far to say prolifers are probably more passionate about their stance than pro choice voter. For a pro life voter a pro choice candidate automatically loses the vote while a pro life candidate might still win the vote of pro choice voters.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
It is in the context of Trump v Hillary; it has very little to do with Sanders.

If she's talking about the general, then that's fine...

It has absolutely nothing to do with Sanders, except for in the minds of those still obsessed with a primary he badly lost.

22 states and 47 percent of the vote is not "badly lost". Especially against the democratic establishment and Clinton family. It just says more about Sanders message resonating and the weakness of the establishment democrats argument during the primaries IMO. He only badly lost in the minds of those who want it to be a sweeping win for the one who lost to Trump, the guy with the lowest approval(or highest disapproval?) ratings ever.

I think we can all tell that the battle for the primaries is still going on because the dem party was split into two with that election and their viewpoints are fundamentally different about politics, let's be honest about that.
 

Kimawolf

Member
They did lol, they absolutely did.

there is NO WAY Trump would be more aligned in your views as a woman unless you REALLY REALLY hate abortion, or REALLY just hate minorities. Even if you don't agree with Hilary, and think she's a POS, even as a POS she is still more aligned to a woman's views than Donald Trump for christ's sake.
 
People in this topic really don't understand how a little a good percent of the women in the country (probably over 40 percent) give a shit about a women's right to abort. To many it's not about reproductive right it's about the right to murder.

Hell I'll go as far to say prolifers are probably more passionate about their stance than pro choice voter. For a pro life voter a pro choice candidate automatically loses the vote while a pro life candidate might still win the vote of pro choice voters.

It’s not about not understanding it, it’s about not normalizing that stupidity
 

Darknight

Member
There is a woman at work who cares more about animals than humans. I don't hate her personally but how can you think this way.

And yes she is a Trumper...
 

Jeels

Member
If she's talking about the general, then that's fine...



22 states and 47 percent of the vote is not "badly lost". Especially against the democratic establishment and Clinton family. It just says more about Sanders message resonating and the weakness of the establishment democrats argument during the primaries IMO. He only badly lost in the minds of those who want it to be a sweeping win for the one who lost to Trump, the guy with the lowest approval(or highest disapproval?) ratings ever.

I think we can all tell that the battle for the primaries is still going on because the dem party was split into two with that election and their viewpoints are fundamentally different about politics, let's be honest about that.

We can debate whether Sanders was successful or not but the latter half is a load of crap. Clinton and Sanders agreed on 95%+. There is no split.
 

Gin-Shiio

Member
If you are a minority, woman and/or homosexual and vote Republican (not just Trump), then you are voting against your own self-interests. Well, unless you really like guns and despise medicare.
 

KDC720

Member
I recall during the election, my Mother (who decided not to vote) claimed that while she would like nothing more than to see a woman in the White House, she DID NOT want it to be Hillary Clinton, she told me she would have voted for Michelle Obama 100% if she decided to run.

Michelle is correct here, but I think we all thought Trump would lose a great chunk of woman voters after pussygate, turns out we were wrong and it's incredibly discouraging that they chose to either vote for a man who openly admitted he treats woman as sex objects or to just not vote at all.
 

royalan

Member
Yep. They definitely voted against their own self-interests. Same as any black person who voted for the guy. Hell, I'd even go as far to say half the white males who voted for Trump voted against their own self-interests and didn't know it.

YEP

Hillary is 100% right. And not just women, any minority going into the election voting for a man who campaigned on negatively targeting them voted against their own voice.

It's not just politicians. This country could use some self-reflection.
 

Kenai

Member
I'm amazed at how many people, especially on this forum, forget or have failed to realize the amount of women that are single issue voters on the abortion issue, and in this case, pro-life. It is not a negligible amount. Polling shows near 40% of women think abortion should be illegal in most all cases. Men and women have shown they will go to staggering lengths to vote on this issue.

^^^^

I was amazed during summer last year at my old job listening to some of the lady technicians I worked with (Indianapolis) tell each other completely serious stories about how Hillary was going to make baby murder legal and whatnot. it's not talked about near as much as anti-immigration single issue voters but I'd say it's almost as big of a problem in Rust Belt states. And I have no real idea what to do about it, because they clearly aren't going to listen to reason, and it's too far fetched imo to think that said people will both personally suffer from it *and* learn their lesson.

Man, if the me from 8 months ago saw me posting this, I'd be dumbfounded, but it's the reality of things - People wanted more from a broken political system, and it will not fix itself if people just sit on the sidelines and play along in fairness.

I can sort of understand people being apathetic if their ideal candidate (hypothetical or not) isn't represented, but it's quite frustrating to me and a lot of others who are trying desperately to hammer home the fact that you do not win this game by not playing. A lot of unnecessary suffering has happened/is happening under the Trump admin, and yet they are incredibly stupid/incompetent, so it could have been much, much worse than it has been so far. It reeks of the privileged that no matter how bad it gets those protest voters/non-voters aren't in any real danger of their specific rights being removed by legislation put up by this admin (or are genuinely ignorant of what's at stake for them). For example, losing the vacant Supreme Court seat alone is a huge blow to our generation. Imagine if we lose another under this admin? Some of them are quite old and could die as suddenly as Scalia did. And that's just one of many, many things.
 

Swarlee

Member
Mostly because the white keeps trying to kill the black


Actually the reverse is true, more whites were killed by blacks in 2016.

But both Black and White people killed a significant amount more of their own people. Proving people mostly stick with their own kind even when choosing to kill somebody.



https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers


But wtf does this have to do with Michelle Obama?

OT: This oversimplification of people based on (insert a/s/r here) is silly. As others have mentioned anti abortion is probably the main reason Trump is in office. Wether you agree with that stance or not you have to understand that people consider it murder. So Hillary to them might as well have walked up to the podium with a bloody axe dripping baby parts strapped to her back.

Not all women think alike. Not all share the same values. I also bet there are some women out there who even have grabbed a man's dick without expressly asking for permission 😮

People need to stop acting like just because they are X it means can they speak for all Xs.


That said... Yeah it's prob true


Edit: not gonna reply to the off topic to avoid derailing. But Battersea Power Station, I said kill not hunt
 
I wish Michelle had a desire to run for office. Nothing would be more satisfying than watching Trump get one-termed by another Obama, and I do think she's one of the safest bets we have in keeping him from a 2nd term.

How about we cool it with political dynasties instead and stop fetishizing the Obamas and Clintons
 
Actually the reverse is true, more whites were killed by blacks in 2016.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
Does that bear out proportionally? i.e. murderers of any race have a wider choice of white targets since whites make up most of the country.

Entertaining the idea that Trump would he better for women in way is offensive to any intelligent being
The point is that none of us (men) should be passing judgement on what "better" even means for a woman.
 
Does that bear out proportionally? i.e. murderers of any race have a wider choice of white targets since whites make up most of the country.


The point is that none of us (men) should be passing judgement on what "better" even means for a woman.

Recognizing the fact that Republicans are obsessed with undermining women’s health and their autonomy with regard to it is not passing judgement on what’s best for them.
 

Gin-Shiio

Member
The point is that none of us (men) should be passing judgement on what "better" even means for a woman.

If you argue like that, that implies there are opposing political paths that are equally beneficial to the social progress of our society. I'd argue that women that are in favor of pro-life are indirectly advocating against the social progress of their sex. Ergo, women that vote Republican to uphold for instance the abortion ban do not only not strive for the social progress of women, they hinder it through the power of their vote.
 
Top Bottom