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[CyberPanda]

I'm just going to leave this here:

 

[DanielsM]

I'm just going to leave this here:

Well, technically it is... so is downloading a game on an iOS device from the Apple Store. Just because there are 7 billion people on the planet doesn't mean 7 billion people are going to buy your product. Of course, he could say, we need to sell more consoles.

Let me show you how Microsoft doesn't even believe what they are saying here.

Gears of War 5 multi-player on Xbox as a Hardware is a niche market within the niche market.... Microsoft limits MP to people that pay for Gold. Cool, remove the Gold requirement to play GoW5. The problem is... the amount of funds they are generating via Gold subscriptions are much greater than if they open up games for free mp.

If Microsoft really believed all this... all of their video games would be on Steam and Epic Game stores, plus PS4/Switch/etc.... and they certainly wouldn't have Xbox Live Gold subscriptions. Its like saying Apple would make more money by not closing iOS, obviously Microsoft doesn't believe that as they have spent the last 20 years trying to mimic closed device systems.

Basically, the short summary here is...

We lost this device market, just like we lost the other device markets... instead of continuously losing and beating our heads against the wall... we're moving on. Can't beat them, join them. We wouldn't say Sony and Nintendo are good at what they do or competitors... they're just traditional video game companies, that's not what we want to do.

This is exactly what many of us said was going to happen, not that we're smart.... this is what they have done in all the consumer device markets. Of course, we'll never get an apology.

 

[dDoc]

first parry games

First parry games are best timed parry games

 

[iNvid02]

if youre going to quote me at least answer the question

This isnt 20 questions and you're not an interviewer, your loaded rhetoricals will go unanswered, maybe add more srs question suffixes next time

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I'm just going to leave this here:

sshh, let the armchair analysts have their fun

 

[DanielsM]

sshh, let the armchair analysts have their fun

But the armchair analysts appear to be right.

He is somewhere between steps 2 and 3.

5 Stages of Grief After Facing a Loss

Exploring these 5 stages of grief could help you understand and put into context your or your loved one's emotions after a significant loss.

psychcentral.com

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Why am I not surprised there are so many horrible takes in here misunderstanding or full fledged misrepresenting what Phil Spencer said or means? Oh well, doesn't really matter.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah, no. Cant agree there. The Xbox is a platform now - this includes console. Phil has said many times already that the console isnt going anywhere as its still the place to experience gaming at optimal.

And he's saying Google and Amazon are a much bigger threat than Sony and Nintendo when it comes to game streaming through Cloud. And he's right.

I cant see a reason to go third party when you can still tap into the fanbase of both companies through their mobile devices. You wont ever see GP on Sony's PS. Maybe (MAYBE) Switch. And Greenberg already aid they arent going to put anymore games on competing platforms.

So explain how Sony is making more money today from streaming games than both Google and Amazon combined.

Why am I not surprised there are so many horrible takes in here misunderstanding or full fledged misrepresenting what Phil Spencer said or means? Oh well, doesn't really matter.

So explain to us what you think he really means. It's pretty clear to me what he's saying and doing.

 

[DanielsM]

So explain how Sony is making more money today from streaming games than both Google and Amazon combined.

Wishful thinking, he wants Nintendo and Sony to be service customers. I could see Sony partnering with a cloud service provider for backend support but there is no reason for the thing called Xbox to be a middleman. The things Phil is rolling out has no use to Sony i.e. Xbox services. Sony and most of the large publishers already have their external and internal systems.

What (Xbox) Phil is trying to sell is almost unsellable to the large publishers, the basic and general services in Azure, possibly. The application layers are already built, as you are saying. Sony/Nintendo/EA/Ubisoft/Take Take/etc might have uses for basic cloud services (AWS,Azure,Google), but most of the application layers and services are generally in place, especially in the case of Sony or will have to be custom built.

Nobody (large publishers) wants to give Microsoft percentages of transactions, there is no reason to.... which is why Phil selling anything is going to be a tough road. The thing called Xbox has limited to no use outside of Xbox as a Hardware to large third parties.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

So explain how Sony is making more money today from streaming games than both Google and Amazon combined.

Google has Stadia which isn’t even three months old and Amazon hasn’t even launched their service yet? I don’t think you’d make a good executive at these corporations with that kind of shortsighted thinking. Did you miss the GAF armchair analyst class on that?

I mean imagine if Netflix in 2017 was thinking “hey we make more money than YouTube TV and Disney+ combined right now! We good”

Seems when Phil was speaking about Xbox and Ryan about PlayStation they were both talking with an eye towards the future, as people in their positions should.

 

[DanielsM]

Google has Stadia which isn’t even three months old and Amazon hasn’t even launched their service yet? I don’t think you’d make a good executive at these corporations with that kind of shortsighted thinking. Did you miss the GAF armchair analyst class on that?

I mean imagine if Netflix in 2017 was thinking “hey we make more money than YouTube TV and Disney+ combined right now! We good”

Seems when Phil was speaking about Xbox and Ryan about PlayStation they were both talking with an eye towards the future, as people in their positions should.

If you can't even identify your competition, or realize there are products/services that already exist... which you might in the future release(?) My guess is your chances are not very high for success.

Literally what Phil is pitching is in the list of "do not do". Although, he is not saying they don't have competition, he is clearly missing the competition that already exists today... there are literally cloud gaming providers than even I don't know about. Its an over-saturated market with almost no customer base which is years ahead of them... they are way late to the party.... not that its a good party.... its lame a party.

Never belittle or underestimate the competition. <-

Not only is he underestimating the competition... he doesn't even know they are competition. Even if they had an edge, the edge gets dull because he doesn't know what is going on.

Mistake #12: Stating That You Don’t Have Any Competition

Telling investors that you have no competition will likely result in the investors believing you are unrealistic or naive. Of course you have competition, whether direct or indirect (such as someone who provides a substitute solution). Investors can almost always find some credible competitors by doing a simple Google search.


Investors will expect you to know the competitive landscape, and how your product, technology, and marketing measures up to the competition. Never belittle or underestimate the competition.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/allbus...-with-their-investor-pitch-deck/#aa769ccf4fbf

 

[SNG32]

You think you smoove my guy. I see you though. Lol.

What you fail to realize is these are S U B S C R I B E R S . This means they pay a fee EVERY. SINGLE. MONTH! This is what we call...
R E S I D U A L I N C O M E.

If only there was a gaming service with the ability to play games on mobile devices while away from home. Lets just ignore the fact that Netflix only offers movies and tv shows.. They dont have DLC for their content and what have you, to add to their monthly fees. And they dont sell their exclusives.

Microsoft wont need to even reach 167 million subscribers to make the kind of revenue akin to Netflix with a gaming service like Gamepass playing over Xcloud. Movies arent games. In fact, Netflix wishes they had a gaming service like Gamepass.
But I'm glad you brought this up.

If you take the Netflix business model and put that into a service like Gamepass (over 250+ games and counting) can you see the potential and, how much money is left on the table if you dont have something like Xcloud to tap into all that money left on the table? This is exactly why Sony and Nintendo wont "be fine". And why Sony won't dominate next generation. Its not just Microsoft. Its Amazon and Google, too. Thats the whole point....

I'm done with this conversation. You'll see for yourselves soon enough.

Until something like Xcloud is on the level of local console gameplay I don't think Sony or Nintendo have to worry about anything at the moment. Remember Gamepass is only a limited reach with xbox and pc and netflix is on every platform out there.

 

[Gavon West]

Until something like Xcloud is on the level of local console gameplay I don't think Sony or Nintendo have to worry about anything at the moment. Remember Gamepass is only a limited reach with xbox and pc and netflix is on every platform out there.

Xcloud wont be on the level of local hardware. Phil has already stated that console will be the best place to play. Xcloud is the viable option to play while you're on the go. In my opinion, that's how it should be. Thats fine if you dont think Sony or Nintendo have nothing to worry about but, when Xcloud is joined with your Gamepass subscription, that may change things up a bit. We'll see..

 

[DanielsM]

Xcloud wont be on the level of local hardware. Phil has already stated that console will be the best place to play. Xcloud is the viable option to play while you're on the go. In my opinion, that's how it should be. Thats fine if you dont think Sony or Nintendo have nothing to worry about but, when Xcloud is joined with your Gamepass subscription, that may change things up a bit. We'll see..

Sony already has game rental tied to game streaming its called PS Now. Nobody freaks out about it. Its just a rental service.

The issue now is Microsoft is blowing up their Xbox as a Hardware, these Xbox services are generally useless to large third party outside of the close hardware.... which is why Games for Windows Live and MS Store are or were not used. If Microsoft wants to use Game Pass/xCloud as their own distribution like any other large publisher, I see nothing wrong with that... but as a middleman that ship sails with the hardware. Large third parties have no use for Xbox as a Service, they needed access to the close hardware, that's really it.

The issue with Phil's comments are many fold, he is basically turning them into a traditional publisher... but is still delusional that the large publishers will use their services... there simply is no reason for another middleman to be there and to use these services... most of them already have their own distribution channels and services, which are added.

 

[mckmas8808]

Google has Stadia which isn’t even three months old and Amazon hasn’t even launched their service yet? I don’t think you’d make a good executive at these corporations with that kind of shortsighted thinking. Did you miss the GAF armchair analyst class on that?

I mean imagine if Netflix in 2017 was thinking “hey we make more money than YouTube TV and Disney+ combined right now! We good”

Seems when Phil was speaking about Xbox and Ryan about PlayStation they were both talking with an eye towards the future, as people in their positions should.

Dude.....think about what you are typing here. In what world is the Playstation brand not a competitor the Xbox brand? Who cares about Azure when we are talking about video games? It's just the delivery mechanism. It's not the main thing we are gamers should be thinking about when it comes to competition in the video game's space. In the same way, the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD thing wasn't going to dictate who would do better in the PS3\360 generation.

Xcloud wont be on the level of local hardware. Phil has already stated that console will be the best place to play. Xcloud is the viable option to play while you're on the go. In my opinion, that's how it should be. Thats fine if you dont think Sony or Nintendo have nothing to worry about but, when Xcloud is joined with your Gamepass subscription, that may change things up a bit. We'll see..

Why do you guys speak as if PS NOW doesn't exist?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

If you can't even identify your competition, or realize there are products/services that already exist... which you might in the future release(?) My guess is your chances are not very high for success.

Literally what Phil is pitching is in the list of "do not do". Although, he is not saying they don't have competition, he is clearly missing the competition that already exists today... there are literally cloud gaming providers than even I don't know about. Its an over-saturated market with almost no customer base which is years ahead of them... they are way late to the party.... not that its a good party.... its lame a party.

Never belittle or underestimate the competition. <-

Not only is he underestimating the competition... he doesn't even know they are competition. Even if they had an edge, the edge gets dull because he doesn't know what is going on.




https://www.forbes.com/sites/allbus...-with-their-investor-pitch-deck/#aa769ccf4fbf

Why do you say “even I don’t know about” as if you’re some sort of expert on it or something. If you were an expert, you’d know about them. Also of course cloud gaming already exists. I just have missed the part where they said or implied they created it or something

Also your link completely changed my mind. Microsoft clearly needs lessons on what startup companies should and should not do from random GAF user. Can you tweet this to Phil? Otherwise I think Microsoft’s days are numbered.

 

[DanielsM]

Why do you say “even I don’t know about” as if you’re some sort of expert on it or something. If you were an expert, you’d know about them. Also of course cloud gaming already exists. I just have missed the part where they said or implied they created it or something

Also your link completely changed my mind. Microsoft clearly needs lessons on what startup companies should and should not do from random GAF user. Can you tweet this to Phil? Otherwise I think Microsoft’s days are numbered.

Nobody is an expert, nobody gives a crap about cloud gaming.

Microsoft clearly needs lessons on what startup companies should and should not do from

Now there is something we can agree on, I would limit it to the consumer market though.... basically ran out of things to cut. Parts of their business are okay to good, the consumer side of the house was a train wreck and has been for 20 years... not much else left though.

Microsoft consumer products/services are basically an example of what not to do to your customers, which is why they lost in all these markets... phones, digital watches, voice assistant, gaming, software distribution, etc. Its not a big conspiracy.. they suck at it.

 

[StormCell]

I've come here to make one retort to MS:

The only thing that was out of position here was Microsoft considering themselves, and Sony, as competitors of Nintendo. They march to their own drum beat to such an extent that I even begin to wonder if Sony and Nintendo still view each other as bitter rivals.

The rest of the market could go to the cloud, and Nintendo will just keep on selling hardware. Bank on it.

 

[Bryank75]

I'd be worried if Amazon, Google or Xbox / MS had any games worth buying or playing.... fact is they are not gaming companies, they don't really understand gaming. They don't understand that consoles are central to the way we game....

If I drive a car and someone offers me a bicycle instead because it can get in smaller streets and is more eco-friendly as well as healthier.... I'm going to pick up its light frame and throw it right in their face!

I like driving cars and I go to the gym to exercise, nothing can replace a car for me.... same as a console.

7 BILLION? MS love their big numbers till someone elses numbers are higher.... they can have a billion customers... but none of them will pay money for games!

Nintendo and Sony have the gamers that pay.... the real hardcore. You see it every time a game launches.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'd be worried if Amazon, Google or Xbox / MS had any games worth buying or playing.... fact is they are not gaming companies, they don't really understand gaming. They don't understand that consoles are central to the way we game....

If I drive a car and someone offers me a bicycle instead because it can get in smaller streets and is more eco-friendly as well as healthier.... I'm going to pick up its light frame and throw it right in their face!

I like driving cars and I go to the gym to exercise, nothing can replace a car for me.... same as a console.

BINGO!!!

 

[DanielsM]

They're not game companies, they want to provide cycles and move/process data.... its meaningless what they are processing to them.

 

[Gavon West]

Dude.....think about what you are typing here. In what world is the Playstation brand not a competitor the Xbox brand? Who cares about Azure when we are talking about video games? It's just the delivery mechanism. It's not the main thing we are gamers should be thinking about when it comes to competition in the video game's space. In the same way, the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD thing wasn't going to dictate who would do better in the PS3\360 generation.



Why do you guys speak as if PS NOW doesn't exist?

PS Now pales in comparison. Thats why.

 

[DanielsM]

PS Now pales in comparison. Thats why.

Its basically the same service, the difference is... Sony offer many more games, does not normally rotate the games, online is included in the games, game streaming is available.... what Game Pass has I believe is discount purchases and Crackdown 3 on day one.

They are both simply rental services. Microsoft actually doesn't even have a streaming service yet, not that I think highly of those.

I'm not really interested in either one but too me if they were equal price, I would probably have to go with PS Now... but I kind of don't get what the purpose of these services really are, most people can only play a few games a year.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Begun the streaming wars have.

If you think the most ardent fanatics are annoying with raw native hotness over the past several decades... they take it to a whole new level with jumping on the streaming tripe as ammo!

 

[DanielsM]

Begun the streaming wars have.

If you think the most ardent fanatics are annoying with raw native hotness over the past several decades... they take it to a whole new level with jumping on the streaming tripe as ammo!

There seems to be only one corporation that seems to be included in the war with their fans, why is it always the same corporation?

Guys could never subscript to a cloud gaming service before because it sucked, now all of sudden love it.

 

[Gavon West]

I'd be worried if Amazon, Google or Xbox / MS had any games worth buying or playing.... fact is they are not gaming companies, they don't really understand gaming. They don't understand that consoles are central to the way we game....

If I drive a car and someone offers me a bicycle instead because it can get in smaller streets and is more eco-friendly as well as healthier.... I'm going to pick up its light frame and throw it right in their face!

I like driving cars and I go to the gym to exercise, nothing can replace a car for me.... same as a console.

7 BILLION? MS love their big numbers till someone elses numbers are higher.... they can have a billion customers... but none of them will pay money for games!

Nintendo and Sony have the gamers that pay.... the real hardcore. You see it every time a game launches.

You guys sound scared AF. Cloud gaming isnt going to take over initially. But it is a part of next gen and it will be a big part of it. So are services like Gamepass. Nobody really cares if you dont find Xbox games appealing. Thats your business. But you dont speak for everyone. And you have no idea what's coming down the pike with the new studios or the ones being added to the roster this year. I said it before and I'll say it again; Sony wont be the only gaming company with banger 1st party games next gen. It really doesnt matter if you like cloud streaming for games or not. Doesn't matter how much you complain and bitch and moan. Nothing you say will stop it. The only one out of the big three prepped to handle it and had decades of gaming knowledge to join with it, is Microsoft. Not Sony. Not Nintendo. Period.

But hey, you guys keep pretending we're back in 2013. Seems to be second nature among most here.

 

[Bryank75]

PS Now pales in comparison. Thats why.

Sony know if they put new games on there it will severely cut sales of those games... just like Gears 5 and Outer Worlds.
Sony has a particular role for PS Now to play. It has a purpose... whereas Gamespass is just a spiteful way to undercut the competition for short term gains.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There seems to be only one corporation that seems to be included in the war with their fans, why is it always the same corporation?

Even Sony fans (on here) don't talk about PSNow, other than to remind the horse-blinders that it exists and has been existing for some time.

This whole streaming shit is so tiring, especially taking into consideration as an enthusiast board, it's the bottom of the list of preferences. The same board where people laugh at a TV if it has 21-30ms input latency.

You can see through the bullshit a mile away.

 

[DanielsM]

Even Sony fans (on here) don't talk about PSNow, other than to remind the horse-blinders that it exists and has been existing for some time.

This whole streaming shit is so tiring, especially taking into consideration as an enthusiast board, it's the bottom of the list of preferences. The same board where people laugh at a TV if it has 21-30ms input latency.

You can see through the bullshit a mile away.

I own a PS4, I don't see the big deal with PS Now, if people want to use it, cool I guess.... its just a rental service. Like getting excited over Blockbusters. Even the Windows Phone fantics weren't this delusional, and that is saying a lot.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I own a PS4, I don't see the big deal with PS Now, if people want to use it, cool I guess.... its just a rental service. Like getting excited over Blockbusters. Even the Windows Phone fantics weren't this delusional, and that is saying a lot.

Same. I messed around with it in the beta when that launched and never touched it again. I guess the ability to download PS4/PS2 games to play naively are good for those who want a cheaper alternative, but not for me. I personally buy all my games, and double dip from physical to digital when there is a nice flash sale if I really liked a certain game. For convenience not unlike Steam.

 

[Gavon West]

Sony know if they put new games on there it will severely cut sales of those games... just like Gears 5 and Outer Worlds.
Sony has a particular role for PS Now to play. It has a purpose... whereas Gamespass is just a spiteful way to undercut the competition for short term gains.

Let me get this right: Microsoft has invested billions into acquiring studios, 3rd party deals and Gamepass out of spite and short term gains???? LMAO!

I find it fascinating how Sony fanboys dont see things for how they are. They see what they wanna see, not the reality of things. I mean, like, the writing is literally on the wall. Sony and Nintendo have great first party Ip's. I'll give them that. But Microsoft basically has the biggest stable of developers in just two years time - these all have multiple teams working on multiple projects, withas much time as they need and virtually a blank check and they keep their independence. I mean, like, just look at Obsidian, Ninja Theory, Playground Games, InXile, TC, 343i, Double Fine, Rare etc. These are all heavy hitters!

Gamepass is a beast of a service. Xcloud is a literal thing, with a company who has decades of cloud infrastructure/ operation and gaming with the Xbox platform experience. You guys seriously dont see a pattern here????? I doubt that..

You see it. You just dont want to.

 

[DanielsM]

Gamepass is a beast of a service. Xcloud is a literal thing. You guys seriously dont see a pattern here????? I doubt that..

Oh, we see a pattern here. I think everyone does.

 

[Bryank75]

Oh, we see a pattern here. I think everyone does.

'It's BEAST' .... guess I must buy it so.... LOL

'Guys... did you hear? It's BEAST'

 

[Gavon West]

'It's BEAST' .... guess I must buy it so.... LOL

'Guys... did you hear? It's BEAST'

Thanks for proving my point. Lol. You guys are so transparent.

 

[Bryank75]

Thanks for proving my point. Lol. You guys are so transparent.

Just having a bit of fun... enjoy your streaming service. I guess you won't get the Series X then?

 

[Gavon West]

Just having a bit of fun... enjoy your streaming service. I guess you won't get the Series X then?

Thats a Day 0 purchase for me. Ill admit Im pretty excited about being able to play Halo Infinite on my tablet while traveling or away from my console though. Particularly when I go to renew my license next year. Thats a long fucking line.

 

[NickFire]

MS saying this is stupid stealth marketing mumbo jumbo, and arguing over it at the present time is simply absurd the more I think about it. If you want to divest the conversation completely free of video games and talk data centers or servers then ok. But to argue about Google or Amazon as a video game competitor at this stage is as pointless as it was 4 years ago. Here are the facts:

1) Google's offering has, as far as I can tell, been solidly rejected by the vast majority of consumers so far; and
2) There is no Amazon console or system that anyone takes seriously yet, even if some indie game browser streamer or whatever exists. (I honestly have no idea if Amazon even offers video games outside of digital codes for XBOX and PS and physical copies).

If Google starts trumpeting sales numbers that make Wii U blush, or if Amazon announces a console with a preorder page linked in the announcement, please wake me up. Until then we are arguing over hypothetical games that conglomerates could possibly make if they figure out how to trick us into accepting business models where ROI is more important than anything else.

 

[DanielsM]

'It's BEAST' .... guess I must buy it so.... LOL

'Guys... did you hear? It's BEAST'

I do feel bad for some of these guys, I mean they are apparently emotional invested, if not financially invested to a degree. At some point though, they can't just make up shit and expect everyone to listen to it because they made unwise choices.... its like a serial gambler that keeps doubling down.

Just like the Windows Phone, this one was over a long time ago, but everyone still has to go through the motions. I mean you had every Microsoft employee for years with iPhones and Android phones at BUILD every year walking around and you still had these nutbag Windows Phone guys that just didn't want to give up.

2015... Satya is wallking around with an iPhone and even doing demos


2016... Microsoft is "committed" to Windows Mobile

Microsoft claims it's ‘committed' to Windows 10 Mobile

Surface Phone rumored for April 2017

www.theverge.com

2017.... end of life notice

Windows Phone is DEAD - Microsoft signals end of its mobile phones

HUGE announcement means that Microsoft will wind down its smartphone production within the next few weeks, marking an end to its major mobile experiment.

www.express.co.uk

Even after the end of life notice and to this day, you still have these WP nuts.

Personnally, I probably have more MS products on this forum, or close to it.... some of them worked out... some not so much... I got my use out of them and than moved on though.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Why am I not surprised there are so many horrible takes in here misunderstanding or full fledged misrepresenting what Phil Spencer said or means? Oh well, doesn't really matter.

The sooner people remove their head from up his scheming asshole the better.

 

[wolywood]

One argument from the skeptics I don't buy is that game streaming will never take off because streaming (internet) latency can't match console (local) latency.

....So what? Music on Spotify doesn't sound as good as music on vinyl/CDs and 4K movies on Netflix don't look as good as 4K movies on Bluray. The vast majority of consumers do not give a shit. The vast majority of consumers prefer the convenience of accessing a huge catalogue of content on multiple devices, at a push of a button or tap of a screen, nearly anywhere they happen to be.

 

[DeepEnigma]

One argument from the skeptics I don't buy is that game streaming will never take off because streaming (internet) latency can't match console (local) latency.

....So what? Music on Spotify doesn't sound as good as music on vinyl/CDs and 4K movies on Netflix don't look as good as 4K movies on Bluray. The vast majority of consumers do not give a shit. The vast majority of consumers prefer the convenience of accessing a huge catalogue of content on multiple devices, at a push of a button or tap of a screen, nearly anywhere they happen to be.

This is a horrible analogy and you should feel bad.

None of those require actual input to "feel the latency". The vast majority are all playing Fortnite anyways, locally.

 

[wolywood]

This is a horrible analogy and you should feel bad.

None of those require actual input to "feel the latency". The vast majority are all playing Fortnite anyways, locally.

You're still looking at this from a hardcore gamer perspective. As long as the games are playable (which Stadia, xCloud and PS Now have absolutely proven) then John Q. Public isn't going to a) know or b) care about a few extra milliseconds of latency that could be eliminated by purchasing a $500 living room box. And that's the customer base that Microsoft, Amazon and Google are going after.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You're still looking at this from a hardcore gamer perspective. As long as the games are playable (which Stadia, xCloud and PS Now have absolutely proven) then John Q. Public isn't going to a) know or b) care about a few extra milliseconds of latency that could be eliminated by purchasing a $500 living room box. And that's the customer base that Microsoft, Amazon and Google are going after.

Cool. I will just stick with PC, Sony, and Nintendo then for the core gaming that unironically, are still the leading platforms for the "hardcore gamers" and casual gamers alike.

Stadia. What a dud.

P.S. People complain all the time when the UI in their Smart TVs and streaming platforms run laggy and have latency when trying to select things.

 

[DanielsM]

One argument from the skeptics I don't buy is that game streaming will never take off because streaming (internet) latency can't match console (local) latency.

....So what? Music on Spotify doesn't sound as good as music on vinyl/CDs and 4K movies on Netflix don't look as good as 4K movies on Bluray. The vast majority of consumers do not give a shit. The vast majority of consumers prefer the convenience of accessing a huge catalogue of content on multiple devices, at a push of a button or tap of a screen, nearly anywhere they happen to be.

I would say there are at least two hurdles and possibly three depending on the situation:

1. The quality of the game play will never match native playing
2. More expensive, generally (additional hardware, additional electricity, additional bandwidth)
3. Could diminish ownership, independence or lack of

There literally is limited to no upside for most gamers when it comes to cloud gaming. The question is why?

There are no real benefits for cloud gaming over native gaming, although game streaming can come in handy in a pinch.

 

[Humdinger]

I have two concerns about cloud/subscription gaming, which I haven't heard discussed much (maybe I missed it) in the thread:

1. Since the idea is to stream games to a wide variety of platforms, including and perhaps especially mobile devices, the gaming catalog being offered would be slowly shaped by that target. The games would move toward being mobile-friendly. There is an incentive to make them that way, if those are the devices they're being played on. I'm not saying all games will become mobile games, but there will be a drift in that direction.

Mobile games tend to be simple, easy, and accessible. They also tend to be heavy on microtransactions. I understand why companies want to exploit the mobile space -- there is a lot of money to be made. But think about what it does to the games. There will be an incentive to make games that are mobile-friendly, and less incentive to make games that are designed for consoles.

The game catalog will slowly move away from deep, complex, challenging and visually impressive games toward simple, easy, accessible, MT-friendly games. Of course, there will always be a market for the former, but it will become more boutique over time.

2. There is something disjointed and distracted about streamed gaming on a subscription service, where you have access to hundreds of titles on demand. We have limited attention spans as it is, and they're getting shorter by the year. As we move in the direction of streaming games from large catalogs, I think you'll see gamers have fewer of the deep, immersive experiences in single games. That will be replaced by people who jump from game to game like they jump from TV show to TV show, quickly bored, looking for the next dopamine hit.

I think that will reduce people's experience of gaming over time, just as the same sorts of things have produced a "shallowing" of our culture generally, a distractibility, impatience, and lack of depth. You won't see people diving deep into a game as much; instead, you'll see gaming experiences and discussions become more superficial, distracted, and fragmentary.

Both of those things concern me. People say "it's the future of gaming," but it's not a future I can get excited about.

 

[polybius80]

The software, the compression algorithm and the delivery pipeline. It's going to take more than server stacks to take game streaming to the next level.

with "the software" I assume you refer the server

when people mention a server rack they usually refer to the machine and the server application that runs on it as the same thing, is not correct but everyone understand it like when people say "PC games" instead of "windows games"

the compresion algorithm run in specialized hardware inside the same machine where the game run, otherwise you are generating unnecessary traffic and latency, I think it is a given that a data center try to have a fast connection based on its needs

the most important thing is the actual machine that run and compresses the game and stream video, for example I can stream my own games to a friend from my console using the internet connection of my house I can have a better or worse connection but without the system that stream the game I dont have a stream service at all

 

[thelastword]

Well, technically it is... so is downloading a game on an iOS device from the Apple Store. Just because there are 7 billion people on the planet doesn't mean 7 billion people are going to buy your product. Of course, he could say, we need to sell more consoles.

Let me show you how Microsoft doesn't even believe what they are saying here.

Gears of War 5 multi-player on Xbox as a Hardware is a niche market within the niche market.... Microsoft limits MP to people that pay for Gold. Cool, remove the Gold requirement to play GoW5. The problem is... the amount of funds they are generating via Gold subscriptions are much greater than if they open up games for free mp.

If Microsoft really believed all this... all of their video games would be on Steam and Epic Game stores, plus PS4/Switch/etc.... and they certainly wouldn't have Xbox Live Gold subscriptions. Its like saying Apple would make more money by not closing iOS, obviously Microsoft doesn't believe that as they have spent the last 20 years trying to mimic closed device systems.

Basically, the short summary here is...

We lost this device market, just like we lost the other device markets... instead of continuously losing and beating our heads against the wall... we're moving on. Can't beat them, join them. We wouldn't say Sony and Nintendo are good at what they do or competitors... they're just traditional video game companies, that's not what we want to do.

This is exactly what many of us said was going to happen, not that we're smart.... this is what they have done in all the consumer device markets. Of course, we'll never get an apology.

Been saying that for more than a minute too......Thing is when MS eventually fails in cloud gaming and can't get the penetration, it will be another excuse....Remember it was not just MS.....Prior to Stadia and even Xcloud "which has not launched", people said that Sony and PSNOW was done for, can you imagine, the only streaming console service in existence "which was profitable too" was done for. Why? because two huge companies they said, with more money than Saudi Princes, " would eat PSNOW's lunch"....In other words, how can Sony compete with those Juggernauts, Sony does not even have servers they said ..…..Now guess what, Stadia launched and it has fizzled like an "eno".....

You realize all the hype you heard before Stadia's launched have silenced MS Xcloud hypetrain as well.…..When was the last time you heard about Xcloud..? It's already fizzled even before launch....There is no confidence in such a future from MS, if MS was so confident in Xcloud, there would be no Series X and their minions would not be so enthused about promoting a 12TF box vs a 9TF PS5......Neither would MS be that hellbent on a Most powerful console mantra, because you don't need the most powerful console if streaming is the future and this is your vision......So MS still launching hardware in 2020 and also saying that their competition is Stadia an Amazon, Stadia (dead on arrival and Amazon inexistent in actual gaming content next to Ouya), just speaks of who MS is comparing themselves to.....It is because they know hardware wise and features wise they are not beating Sony next gen either. As the 12TF-9TF Fud-train has fizzled and people are inkling to the real truth....Xcloud is just another revived backup hypetrain which has already slowed down before it even started....

 

[DanielsM]

Been saying that for more than a minute too......Thing is when MS eventually fails in cloud gaming and can't get the penetration, it will be another excuse....Remember it was not just MS.....Prior to Stadia and even Xcloud "which has not launched", people said that Sony and PSNOW was done for, can you imagine, the only streaming console service in existence "which was profitable too" was done for. Why? because two huge companies they said, with more money than Saudi Princes, " would eat PSNOW's lunch"....In other words, how can Sony compete with those Juggernauts, Sony does not even have servers they said ..…..Now guess what, Stadia launched and it has fizzled like an "eno".....

You realize all the hype you heard before Stadia's launched have silenced MS Xcloud hypetrain as well.…..When was the last time you heard about Xcloud..? It's already fizzled even before launch....There is no confidence in such a future from MS, if MS was so confident in Xcloud, there would be no Series X and their minions would not be so enthused about promoting a 12TF box vs a 9TF PS5......Neither would MS be that hellbent on a Most powerful console mantra, because you don't need the most powerful console if streaming is the future and this is your vision......So MS still launching hardware in 2020 and also saying that their competition is Stadia an Amazon, Stadia (dead on arrival and Amazon inexistent in actual gaming content next to Ouya), just speaks of who MS is comparing themselves to.....It is because they know hardware wise and features wise they are not beating Sony next gen either. As the 12TF-9TF Fud-train has fizzled and people are inkling to the real truth....Xcloud is just another revived backup hypetrain which has already slowed down before it even started....

The Games for Windows Live users I felt bad for..... I mean who would have guess they couldn't make a working store on their own OS. However, since that time.... and their track record.... its hard to really fault Microsoft. You have a small group of people that go head first into things that have close to 0% chance of ever working and Microsoft just goes on like it never happened.

At least with some of these rental services, when the lights go out... nothing is really lost, but no way am I going to feel sorry for the people buying software from the MS Store or buying yet another console if things go south for them. Microsoft is giving adequate notice of how this is going to go.... not much different than the Windows Phone.....if one is listening.

I'm going to feel about as bad for these cats as I do the stadia guy from the other day..... zero empathy. The Games for Windows Live users were the first gullible bunch, so lots of empathy there.

What will happen is... things won't work out.... Microsoft will shut it down (like everything else).... those people will come back and blame Microsoft... the blame goes to them not Microsoft, imo.

Microsoft is the wrong tool for the wrong job i.e. gaming or consumer products/services.


(Here is an example of one of their consumer services just going lights out in a matter of a few months, Groove Music, one day they start a buy 1 month, get 6 months free sale.... they shut it down before everyone can use their free months... brutal. )

Thinking about subscribing to Groove Music? Buy 1 mo get 6 mo free with this Labor Day Deal - OnMSFT.com

Is $10 for seven months of Groove Music worth it to you?

www.onmsft.com

Microsoft retires Groove Music service, partners with Spotify

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.

www.theverge.com

 

[thelastword]

The Games for Windows Live users I felt bad for..... I mean who would have guess they couldn't make a working store on their own OS. However, since that time.... and their track record.... its hard to really fault Microsoft. You have a small group of people that go head first into things that have close to 0% chance of ever working and Microsoft just goes on like it never happened.

At least with some of these rental services, when the lights go out... nothing is really lost, but no way am I going to feel sorry for the people buying software from the MS Store or buying yet another console if things go south for them. Microsoft is giving adequate notice of how this is going to go.... not much different than the Windows Phone.....if one is listening.

I'm going to feel about as bad for these cats as I do the stadia guy from the other day..... zero empathy. The Games for Windows Live users were the first gullible bunch, so lots of empathy there.

What will happen is... things won't work out.... Microsoft will shut it down (like everything else).... those people will come back and blame Microsoft... the blame goes to them not Microsoft, imo.

Microsoft is the wrong tool for the wrong job i.e. gaming or consumer products/services.


(Here is an example of one of their consumer services just going lights out in a matter of a few months, Groove Music, one day they start a buy 1 month, get 6 months free sale.... they shut it down before everyone can use their free months... brutal. )

Thinking about subscribing to Groove Music? Buy 1 mo get 6 mo free with this Labor Day Deal - OnMSFT.com

Is $10 for seven months of Groove Music worth it to you?

www.onmsft.com

Microsoft retires Groove Music service, partners with Spotify

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.

www.theverge.com

The crazy thing about people going in blindly on MS hype, even after many pitfalls...and I mean literally, like a really bad Pitfall 1982 the Atari game Pitfall...…..They don't care how many times TV TV TV hype does not work, how many times Kinect with it's Star Wars and Milo killer apps don't work...They are still at another hype-train.....

The craziest thing I've seen is how everybody loved Mattrick all of the 360 gen, he gave them Gears, they boasted that, he gave them a cheap console with better multiplats, then came XBONE and everybody threw him under a bus blaming him for sloppy XBONE messaging and PR......They adopted an XBOX Messiah who would take away the sins of Mattrick and wipe it white as snow, yet 6 years later and he's still promising them the world, saying everything they launch is a gamechanger.....Saying Sony is not their competition.....It's the same way Phil who said "PRO is not a competitor to XBONEX, PRO is more a competitor to XBONES", Yet he loves framerates, so I guess he loved PRO over XBONEX....That Phil guy though, cant hate him, but he is as transparent as the Chinese Glass Bridge....

Now you heard it here first, Phil has been promising so much and never delivering, you ever saw the notification on your Amazon orders that.....Courier attempted to deliver but failed or your package is running late, they will reattempt.....Phil has been on "one day I'll get there' highway, but never got to "Delivery" road.....yet the kids at home love themselves some Uncle Phil.....

Now I'll tell you this, forget about all the hypetrain, it's just desperate hype with a Smirk like the guy on Leonidas's previous avatar...When Phil messes up again next gen, Phil will resign and go elsewhere. The same people saying Phil changed XBOX and is doing great things will be the first to throw him under the bus to praise the next "anointed savior of XBOX"...….

 

[DanielsM]

The crazy thing about people going in blindly on MS hype, even after many pitfalls...and I mean literally, like a really bad Pitfall 1982 the Atari game Pitfall...…..They don't care how many times TV TV TV hype does not work, how many times Kinect with it's Star Wars and Milo killer apps don't work...They are still at another hype-train.....

A portion of gamers look at "Head of Xbox" or whatever and think they are the final decision makers and usually they're being told to what to do from a top down strategy level.

I'm not that smart and even I told everyone what they were going to do, its not really hard to figure out.... just listen to Satya or read his book. Phil isn't in charge of jackshit, Satya told him services or else... I don't really blame Don or Phil, its definitely a culture within Microsoft on the consumer side of the house, its just not working... they're just not good at it... most of the cloud services strategy has limited application on the consumer side of the house.... so it will continue to fail, imo.

I actually like many of Microsoft business/enterprise tools, and there is a need for cloud services, which I am involved with. Visual Studio group, imo, knock it out of the park on a daily basis, literally one of the best tech groups in the world.... than you have something like the Skype group.... who basically destroyed it. It has become a very strange tale of two cities type of company.... some things work very well... why other things are a complete disaster..... consumer products/services come to mind.

LOL