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[Shogmaster]

I'd like to respond to 400 posts at once: BUT IT DOESN'T PLAY GAMES.

It's not the Sega CD. It's the Game Gear or Turbo Express TV Tuner. A non-game luxury add-on for the few people who will want it. What's interesting is the haters have to be duplicitious to troll this. Anyone who thought about this honestly for 20 seconds would have come to the same conclusion. The Sega CD played Sega CD games, a half step attempt at upgrading a video game system. This is not a gaming upgrade. There will not be games for the HD-DVD add-on, or in the slim chance there are, they will not be games exclusive to the HD-DVD upgrade. Sega CD, 32X, 32XCD, JAG CD all played games exclusive to their add-on platform, and all are incorrect analogies here.

QF the muthafucking T.

But shame on me for pissing into the wind. I know 98% of the people doing the bashing here don't give a shit anyway where the truth lies. It's going to be just like E3 all over again when everyone was yelling "ZOMG CLUSTERFUCK!!!" at the two sku thing... and it ended up not mattering at all.

You know what? I think I'm all out of piss. This is going no where fast with these guys. I think I'm done playing broken record.

 

[kaching]

Bigger HDD. I expect there will be demand for that simply on the basis of the content they are offering already via the marketplace(half to full gig game demos and 300 Meg Audioslave concert excerpts say 'hi'). And somewhere in the Managed Copy spec, I'm assuming there's allowance for something like streaming as well.

 

[Geoff9920]

I love how GAF always blows things way out of proportion. :lol Makes for an entertaining read during work.

 

[jarrod]

Wait, it's external?! Why not just release another 360 branded "premium" machine with HD-DVD standard alongside Xbox 360, al la the Matsushitsa Q? Add-on media formats never make sense, the most successful ones only managed around 6 million units (Famicom Disc System, Mega/Sega CD) and that's on the backs of a 30-60 million installed base.

 

[Vieo]

Maybe Xbox360 will be the new iPod in the sense that it'll have a megaton of accessories.

 

[Redbeard]

I wish great success for this add-on drive, just to see how some in this thread will squirm.

 

[Shogmaster]

Because if you would have only stated: "DOES NOT MATTER TO THE X360'S FUTURE [gaming] PROSPECTS" he couldn't have responded as he did. Called debating; from my experience with you, you're not very good, but next time try harder to limit the scope of what you say.

Come the fuck on dude. There was absoluetly no need for me to spell that out for the hundredth time. It was obvious to everyone what I was talking about including you.

specifically stated it was a PR win, why must you be an asshole?

Did I just get called an asshole by Vince? That must be worth an acheivement point or two. Come on Vince. Those who know you, know you. Don't try to cheese this up with some innocence routine. It doesn't fit you.

Obviously any PR person would try to maximize the prioce difference and use the very existence of the Core|Premium (another MS shitty decision) division to their advantage. Any way you cut it, you can make the PlayStation3 come out on top: one of the perks of being a CE company.

A PR guys can make the fucking Gizmondo come out on top. Why it matters so much to you, I have no idea.

No, but these differences get pushed into the mainstream and become truth; just as they do any product. Before they were just ignoring the BD|HD-DVD debate and it worked for them as a consumer could be tempted to say they just don't need it. Now it become much more of a factor as MS has, obstensively, admitted it's useful and that it'll cost extra.

Useful only to MS for muddying the next gen DVD waters. Whether the consumers will care or not is entirely a different matter.

Oh, right, you're of the mentality that it's going to be a fall '06 release... heh.

And you think it's gonna be May huh? We shall see soon enough.

 

[bill0527]

I still don't think this is a bad idea.

My HDTV is component only so I have no use for BRD or HD-DVD right now and probably won't for a few years until I get my next TV that will have HDMI. The only advantage either format would be for me is the increased storage capacity. I'll get up and change discs if it saves me a couple hundred bucks on the price of the console.

GAF is hilarious right now. Everyone is in full-blown bash-the-fuck-outta Microsoft mode. After reading most of this thread, its pretty clear that we have a shitload of Microsoft haters on this board. I knew there were a bunch of them here but I obviously underestimated their numbers.

There is nothing Microsoft could have done to make everyone happy. Even you Sony fans should be able to understand that Microsoft needed to launch first and launch at an attractive price point. Most of you also know that being profitable is number 1 on Microsoft's list right now, whereas with Sony, their number 1 priority right now is to launch their new disc format with PS3, and then worry about profit later. That much is obvious after seeing the entry level BRD players at $1000.

 

[Pug]

Jarrod Peter Moore and the other MS guys probably would have done that but realised thought that the External HD DVD tread on GAF would be smaller and less hostile than a brand new machine just after launch! In other words the External is all GAF fault.

 

[fortified_concept]

What the hell are you talking about? Do you guys realise that this add-on is NOT the only way X360 can play HD movie content? You can buy a HD-DVD ROM (and maybe even BR-ROM) for your Media Center PC and have that stream into the X360. This add-on is pretty much for those that don't have or want MCE PCs and want a simple device to acheive that end.

WOW THAT'S NOT STUPID. Media Center PCs are a new trend iirc. So the PCs are already powerful enough to play HD movies. So why the hell should I stream it to 360 and not connect my graphics card to my TV directly? And btw how much more does MCE costs?

I just don't see how it lookes "desperate". The announcement wasn't even a big deal in the Moore presentation! It was just another thing he was announcing about the X360 being a HD content provider. If the announcement was made a huge deal in the presentation, I could see the argument.

With Sony's BR launch being months away, and the prices for the players being high as they are, I really doubt MS cares to the degree you guys all semm to think.

Well since "us" guys are the voice of the hardcore gamers, I guess they have to care since Xbox iirc was directed towards "hardcore gamers". That was MS's PR and what xbox fans are claiming anyway. And since PS3 is for "casual gamers" like I've heard thousands of times, I wonder from which kind of gamers 360's fanbase will be consisted of in the future.

 

[Borys]

Wow I mean WOW.

Shogmaster is the epitome, the embodiment of damage controlling fanboy of clusterfuck proportions.

Outdoes Dopey, m0dus and the rest of the band.

Keep up the "BR doesn't matter! MS can do no wrong!" dream, Shog.

 

[PS2 KID]

Likely vastly higher? I wouldn't bet the farm on that. And you do know that a USB multicard reader is like $15 at Frys, right? :lol Also why are you adding wireless controller to that list? Why not just replace the core package with Premium, get the wireless controller, headset, AND HDD for $100 additional bucks. Oh that's right. Then you have to add the HDD to the PS3 side. Not convinient for your little argument.

You forgot about the wifi adapter which comes standard in the PS3 and is a $100 premium for the XBOX 360. Let's not forget *again* that card reader also makes saving games to a card (should you choose to do so) a better bang for the buck than the 360's proprietary memory card solution ($40 for 64mb). IF Sony were to sell a HDD optionally, I doubt it would be a total ripoff like the 360's 20gb HD for $100.

As for those saying, "It doesn't play games. It's a non-gaming peripheral." Where do you suppose they are going to display this item? It's not going to be next to Toshiba's $500 and $700 HD-DVD stand-alone players. No it's going to be in the videogame department right next to the 360. When people ask if it plays games, I suppose they will be disappointed knowing an add-on to their $300 or $400 game console doesn't do anything else but play movies and make it look bulkier and uglier. Plus(I'll be generous here, say 50% off the price of Toshiba's $500 stand-alone player.), it'll cost almost as much as the console itself. Then there's the small matter of movies that won't be released on HD-DVD, due to studios that are exclusive to BR.

I think we're also underestimating the intelligence of Joe and Josephina Six Pack. Considering how the Premium pack easily outsold the Core Pack, they seem to more informed nowadays about their videogaming purchases. They will surely turn those back on this peripheral. IMO, I believe this peripheral is as good as dead.

 

[Jerkface]

Let's not forget *again* that card reader also makes savings games to a card (should you choose to do so) a better bang for the buck than the 360's proprietary memory card solution ($40 for 64mb).

I would hold out for an OFFICIAL announcement on that one buddy, I don't expect Sony to forfeit memory card sales or royalties so I think we'll be stuck with Memory Sticks only for game saves.

 

[kaching]

Useful only to MS for muddying the next gen DVD waters.

I know risk-free rewards are a popular notion in this day and age, but it doesn't really work that way. If you're going to acknowledge that MS is aiming to achieve something, you have to acknowledge that there's a chance for failure and the negative ramifications inherent with that.

 

[Vince]

A PR guys can make the fucking Gizmondo come out on top. Why it matters so much to you, I have no idea.

It doesn't matter to me personally, but I can see how it's going to effect sales and market perception; which I commented on. It's a net loss for Microsoft, they aren't muddying the waters at all with this; this is a joke. (Vista is another issue).

It's only helping Sony; it's effect on X360 is a negative and it's positive effect on HD-DVD is minimal. But, say what you like, what's going to happen will happen.

And you think it's gonna be May huh? We shall see soon enough.

I never said 'may' explicitly, but we'll see...

PS. You don't know me, nor does anyone on this secluse, sheltered internet; don't pretend you do just becase I've responded to some of the shit you've spewed on some random internet forum.

 

[Shogmaster]

WOW THAT'S NOT STUPID. Media Center PCs are a new trend iirc. So the PCs are already powerful enough to play HD movies. So why the hell should I stream it to 360 and not connect my graphics card to my TV directly?

You might have your powerful PC far away from the HDTV like me. Or you might have multiple HDTVs. X360 can be a nice simple conduit.

And btw how much more does MCE costs?

The OS is cheaper than XP Pro right now. Usually around $120. OEM of course. The full MCE boxes are anywhere from $500 to $4000, but the concentration is near the $500 with more and more OEMs taking the small Pentium/Celeron M mini ITX box approach.

Well since "us" guys are the voice of the hardcore gamers, I guess they have to care since Xbox iirc was directed towards "hardcore gamers". That was MS's PR and what xbox fans are claiming anyway. And since PS3 is for "casual gamers" like I've heard thousands of times, I wonder from which kind of gamers 360's fanbase will be consisted of in the future.

No console conisists of pure casual gamers in the first year of it's life due to price. OK, maybe Rev will be the exception.

 

[biggreenmachine]

Why complain? What Microsoft has done is give you a choice. I could care less about HD-DVD or blue ray right now. My Local video stores just finally trashed all of their vhs and now only stocks DVDs. I cant see them stocking Either HD_DVDS or BR anytime soon. I am a gamer. So why do I want an Expensive add on to play movies that you cant even buy/rent yet? Not to mention we don't even know which tech will win the race, I'm sure we can agree they both can't co-exist. So why early adopt?
Sony is forcing you to buy their blu ray tech, atleat microsoft kept the cost of the base X360 down by making it an add-on instead of something included in the machine that not only drives up the cost of the machine but also the games (just like how anyting printed on UMD seems to cost more).

 

[truffleshuffle83]

who fuckin cares???? it offers a viable alternative to buying a standalone player and if its cheaper then im all for it. until you BRD has every major studio on board, the war isnt over. last i checked LOTR is HDDVD

 

[Vennt]

I would hold out for an OFFICIAL announcement on that one buddy, I don't expect Sony to forfeit memory card sales or royalties so I think we'll be stuck with Memory Sticks only for game saves.

I expect Sony to only allow gamesaves to a Memory Stick as well, but that still leaves the rather pitiful comparison of a $40 for 64Mb on X360 compared to $30 for 512Mb on PS3.

 

[Shogmaster]

PS. You don't know me, nor does anyone on this secluse, sheltered internet; don't pretend you do just becase I've responded to some of the shit you've spewed on some random internet forum.

I think I know as much as I WANT to know you after reading up on your famous tirades at B3D. Some even have custom sigs featuring your name/quotes. :lol

 

[truffleshuffle83]

Why complain? .

its GAF we dont play games, we come to internet message board to bitch about them

 

[kaching]

I think we'll be stuck with Memory Sticks only for game saves.

Check memory stick prices. You'll find they currently offer better bang for buck than the 360's memory cards do.

 

[PS2 KID]

I would hold out for an OFFICIAL announcement on that one buddy, I don't expect Sony to forfeit memory card sales or royalties so I think we'll be stuck with Memory Sticks only for game saves.

The OFFICIAL announcement was at E3 when they unveiled the PS3. It does include a CF and a SD slot in addition to a Memory Stick slot. If there is an OFFICIAL announcement about their omission in the retail PS3, then I will concede this point.

 

[bill0527]

I think we're also underestimating the intelligence of Joe and Josephina Six Pack. Considering how the Premium pack easily outsold the Core Pack, they seem to more informed nowadays about their videogaming purchases.

I really don't know how you can make that statement considering that Microsoft has pretty much sold every console they've shipped of both Premium and retard packs. The Premium has sold more because it was about a 70/30 allotment according to who you want to believe. Most of the parents I stood in line on launch night with at Target and in line with at the Best Buy relaunch wanted a Premium pack because that's what their kids told them to get, but ended up settling for a Core if they couldn't get Premium.

I don't agree with your statement about Joe six pack's intelligence when it comes to consumer electronics. Did you see all the articles recently about all the HDTV owners who think they're getting Hi-Def on regular cable?

 

[fortified_concept]

You might have your powerful PC far away from the HDTV like me. Or you might have multiple HDTVs. X360 can be a nice simple conduit.

Niiiiiiiiiiiice. So instead of buying a bigger cable I buy a 360. Spare me with your aggressive damage control plz.

No console conisists of pure casual gamers in the first year of it's life due to price. OK, maybe Rev will be the exception.

So you agree that 360 looks bad for hardcore gamers now, and that with Microsoft's strategy they're losing their hardcore fanbase?

 

[Jerkface]

Check memory stick prices. You'll find they currently offer better bang for buck than the 360's memory cards do.

Yeah I wasn't debating that, it was the use of CF and SD cards for game saves rather than just media stuff.

 

[Vince]

You might have your powerful PC far away from the HDTV like me. Or you might have multiple HDTVs. X360 can be a nice simple conduit.

How does an X360 help in the case of multiple HDTV's? Namely, why have a PC and dumb terminals where you should have a localized home-server type device?

And just to clearify:

Some even have custom sigs featuring your name/quotes. :lol

I'm hardly alone in that... but, right, Quincy. Yeah, is it my fault if he's decided that my comment should be quoted? No. He took a comment on the greater impact of Okamoto's World Simulation to gaming than graphics in this generation and cut it so it looks like I'm saying there won't be a difference between PS3 and X360. I think most would agree with my position articulated 2-3 odd years ago before most were even commenting on physics and AI.

 

[kaching]

Why complain? What Microsoft has done is give you a choice.

I don't think most here are complaining - being critical of a decision doesn't automatically qualify as complaining. Most here just don't see this move as the best way to offer the consumer that choice and it doesn't seem to be a particularly sound strategic direction for MS either.

 

[bill0527]

Niiiiiiiiiiiice. So instead of buying a bigger cable I buy a 360. Spare me with your aggressive damage control plz.

Spare me your hardcore PC bravado. Nobody and I mean NOBODY hooks their PC up to their TV unless they're a hardcore PC gamer. I'm not buying 100' of cable and running down a flight of stairs or drilling holes in the ceiling and walls to plug my video card into my TV. My PC entertainment room is completely seperate from my home theater entertainment room as it is in most households.

 

[biggreenmachine]

:lol

its GAF we dont play games, we come to internet message board to bitch about them

:lol :lol :lol

 

[DenogginizerOS]

So you agree that 360 looks bad for hardcore gamers now, and that with Microsoft's strategy they're losing their hardcore fanbase?

At present, my friends list is full of people from this board with who I have had many GREAT gaming experiences with already in the young life of the X360. I would say most of them are hardcore and it clearly has NOT affected them.

If I want to watch an HD-DVD in the future, I have that option. And for that reason, I am glad MS did this. At this stage, I, along with many others, have NO WAY of knowing how this ugly format war will play out and I will reserve my decision for which format to adopt (for MOVIE viewing) down the road. Having said that, I look at what games are coming for X360, PS3, and Revolution and I don't give a flying fuck what format any of these discs will be on. All I care about is that the games continue to entertain me, I have the hardware to play them on, and I can continue to build great friendships over services like XBOX Live.

 

[fortified_concept]

Spare me your hardcore PC bravado. Nobody and I mean NOBODY hooks their PC up to their TV unless they're a hardcore PC gamer. I'm not buying 100' of cable and running down a flight of stairs or drilling holes in the ceiling and walls to plug my video card into my TV. My PC entertainment room is completely seperate from my home theater entertainment room as it is in most households.

And what's your non-hardcore solution? Buying MCE and connecting it to 360 (via Wi-Fi if I understand well) and then connecting it to TV? Now that sounds easy. All I need is an Xbox360 premium pack a wi-fi card and oh yeah Media Center XPs.

Kill me.

 

[Gek54]

who fuckin cares???? it offers a viable alternative to buying a standalone player and if its cheaper then im all for it. until you BRD has every major studio on board, the war isnt over. last i checked LOTR is HDDVD

True, but even if I only get the 360, gettting a stand alone BR seems more attractive than wasting any money on a format that is only supported by a minority.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

And what's your non-hardcore solution? Buying MCE and connecting it to 360 (via Wi-Fi if I understand well) and then connecting it to TV? Now that sounds easy. All I need is an Xbox360 premium pack a wi-fi card and oh yeah Media Center XPs.

Kill me.

All I needed was to download Media Connect 2.0 (1minute)

Install it (10 seconds)

Find my X360 via my wireless router (5 seconds)

And start streaming my music to my X360 and listen to it over my glorious surround sound system (priceless)

 

[FiRez]

If MS keeps its word, the worst case scenario will be HD-DVD releases of games that you can also buy on DVD (even that would be very stupid).

I agree that it would be nice to have a bundled HD-DVD drive, even if the format failed the games would benefit of the extra space, DVD-9 - 1GB is simply not enough. but it would be much worse to split the user base launching games on HD-DVD only for the people that bought the add-on,

and for the zillion time: THIS IS NOT A GAMING ADD-ON.

You can have a tard pack + memory card and you're going to be able to play all the X360 library

 

[truffleshuffle83]

i plan on ps3 being my primary BR player, but if the pricepoint of this is good im all for it just for those few movies the BR doesnt have

 

[Pug]

fortified_concept , I have a decent PC at home with a TV out option. But to be honest I can ony really do the basics on the PC and have never ever considered conecting the PC to the TV. They are in different rooms anyway. When I got my 360 a Friend raved about the connectivity between the PC and the 360. This lead to me having a go, got myself a router, managed to get it setup and then connected the 360. I can now play all my music through my Home Cinema AV equipment which is fantastic, look at all the photo's without fafffing. The wife also is very impressed with that it made a dam sight easier to explain the £400 hole in our account. I think you are underplaying the connectivity of the 360 somewhat.

 

[PS2 KID]

I really don't know how you can make that statement considering that Microsoft has pretty much sold every console they've shipped of both Premium and retard packs. The Premium has sold more because it was about a 70/30 allotment according to who you want to believe. Most of the parents I stood in line on launch night with at Target and in line with at the Best Buy relaunch wanted a Premium pack because that's what their kids told them to get, but ended up settling for a Core if they couldn't get Premium.

I don't agree with your statement about Joe six pack's intelligence when it comes to consumer electronics. Did you see all the articles recently about all the HDTV owners who think they're getting Hi-Def on regular cable?

I seriously doubt every Premium pack was sold to families whose kids told them to get that version of the 360. If someone is going to spend $400 on a console they most likely did some of their own HW or have a hardcore gamer (unless they are that hardcore gamer) advise them. They could have easily read a review or preview of the 360 (probably poorly written) in their local newspaper that said, "Get the premium pack". There's always going to be people who walk into the store and say, "just give me what what you got". Though, IMO I don't think they make up the majority of early adopters.

 

[fortified_concept]

All I needed was to download Media Connect 2.0 (1minute)

Install it (10 seconds)

Find my X360 via my wireless router (5 seconds)

And start streaming my music to my X360 and listen to it over my glorious surround sound system (priceless)

All I need to do is connect the two edges of a cable. And it's not that simple btw. Wi-Fi can be a bitch. The whole deal is not for non-hardcore PC users like bill0527 wants to make it look like.

 

[bill0527]

And what's your non-hardcore solution? Buying MCE and connecting it to 360 (via Wi-Fi if I understand well) and then connecting it to TV? Now that sounds easy. All I need is an Xbox360 premium pack a wi-fi card and oh yeah Media Center XPs.

Kill me.

That's the exact solution I use. I've had a media center PC for 2 years now. I'm not sure if you realize this, but Media Center is not JUST for media. Its also a pretty powerful PC that gets used for other things. The OS is the exact same as XP Pro minus a few of the domain functions and has media functions built into it. Anybody buying a new PC that wants a Windows OS, would be a fool not to look at and consider buying a Media Center because you get more out of the OS than you do with XP Home and its not that much more expensive.

As for wi-fi, do you think wi-fi is some kind of technology that only 3 people own or care about? Wi-fi is everywhere and its cheap and easy to set up a home network so that you can use the internet in several different places in your house on all kinds of different devices.

 

[Geoff9920]

All I need to do is connect the two edges of a cable. And it's not that simple btw. Wi-Fi can be a bitch. The whole deal is not for non-hardcore PC users like bill0527 wants to make it look like.

Actually, the wi-fi on the 360 was so easy to setup(for me) I'd swear it was designed by apple. This was using the 1st party adapter btw.

 

[Shogmaster]

How does an X360 help in the case of multiple HDTV's? Namely, why have a PC and dumb terminals where you should have a localized home-server type device?

Actually, I was talking about having a HDTV hooked up to your MCE PC in one room and the X360 streaming in HD videos from that MCE PC (managed copy on the HDD or something) via X360 to the second HDTV in another room. Not too far fetched.

And just to clearify:



I'm hardly alone in that... but, right, Quincy. Yeah, is it my fault if he's decided that my comment should be quoted? No. He took a comment on the greater impact of Okamoto's World Simulation to gaming than graphics in this generation and cut it so it looks like I'm saying there won't be a difference between PS3 and X360. I think most would agree with my position articulated 2-3 odd years ago before most were even commenting on physics and AI.

It's not really what you say that amuses me, but how you say it. :lol

 

[bigNman]

they are running scared and its only going to get worse lol

 

[fortified_concept]

So what are we arguing about now guys? It started with Shogmaster's claim that 360 can play HD-DVD and you turned into the Wi-Fi capabilities 360?

My point is this: It's easier to connect a simple cable, than connect via wi-fi your PC with 360 then again with your TV. In the very low possibility that you have Xbox360 Premium pack, a Wifi card, Xp Media Center and separate rooms for PC and your home theater (and the knowledge to connect all of them), then -well- do it.

 

[Fafalada]

It's lovely that you are sharing your wisdom on this, but I can't see how it's relevant to the discussion.

Well you were the one bringing HDD into discussion first Anyway the debate has already gone completely diluted so noone knows why they argue anymore.

Just one thing

And there are people who can't tell the difference between PS2 and XBox, calling everything "Playstation" and "Nintendo".

I was referring to people that know these differences very well - like I said actual informed geeks, not soccer moms. My point was that MS marketting campaigns somehow managed to dillute the hell out of the 360 functionality, whether that was their intention or not.

I hope for your sake that you don't invest too much into these standards if they turn out to be LD part 2.

With PS3 (and already owning HDTV) there's not that much to invest for foreseable future. 1080P will likely be top format for another decade, so if the movies really are mastered in it, I don't see an issue whether these formats live or die.

 

[truffleshuffle83]

they are running scared and its only going to get worse lol

running scared you wait 6+ months for ps3 nad blu ray, ill play fight night 3 today next gen is already here

 

[TTP]

Sorry if this has been asked before (it's difficult to keep track of all these CES related threads) but do we know how the Xbox 360 is supposed to communicate with the announced HD-DVD player add-on? Since it doesn't have a dedicated "expansion port", will it use the Ethernet one? If so, why should't you be able to connect any HD-DVD player since all seem to have the Ethernet socket? *confused*

 

[Gek54]

Will other stand alones output ethernet?

 

[Pug]

TTP no one knows where the connection is to be made, rumours have surfaced that it will sandwiched between the Hard drive.

 

[borghe]

more than likely USB is my guess. the external drive is only a transport. it just has to read all the 1's and 0's and send them back to the 360 which will use a software player.