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[Sysgen]

Too much to read .

When are Bluray movies and players available?

Playing the HDDVD advocate ..

HDDVD FTW if ....

HDDVD is available on more platforms. Standalone players, PC's and X360.
HDDVD's will be cheaper.
HDDVD is first to market.
PS3 launches like almost a year from now (stretching it a bit). Bluray players will be available but Bluray just might not get that penetration until the PS3 launches.

I noticed that in the press release 50, 60 games by June? Holy Shit! The X360 userbase can get quite large by June, 4 5 months before the PS3 launches.

Call MS stupid if you will and say Sega add on or whatever.
The goals are staggered.
360 beats PS3 to market. Done.
Drown the system in games building a potentially large userbase to add to the media center HDDVD userbase. 50/60 games by June. Done.
Make HDDVD as visible as possible. Done.
Have HDDVD to market before Bluray and have HDDVD positioned so it sells. Puts pressure on Bluray only studios to release HDDVD content
Fuck SONY in the ass. In progress.

 

[TTP]

Will other stand alones output ethernet?

This is the back of the Toshiba one.

 

[HARRYTASKER]

I only skimmed the article but where does it say that the 360 is required to play HD-DVD movies? All it says is that they plan to release a external HD-DVD player...they could ship it free with Vista and then you could stream HD movies to you tv? could you not? I think Microsoft is taking this "Media Hub" thing very seriously...there are not just looking at the 360 as a stand alone product. They see the whole MS line-up working together.

Now is this to say that MS would not have liked to put a HD-DVD player in the 360? sure they would, but they made the decition that a year head start was a better idea and games are the number one for this system not HD movies.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

My point is this: It's easier to connect a simple cable, than connect via wi-fi your PC with 360 then again with your TV. In the very low possibility that you have Xbox360 Premium pack, a Wifi card, Xp Media Center and separate rooms for PC and your home theater (and the knowledge to connect all of them), then -well- do it.

Wireless = No cables = Wife Happy = Good times to be had in the sack.

It took me a little reading on XBOX.com and a little downloading to get it to work. I used my wireless adapter from my XBOX. It was a BREEZE.

 

[TTP]

TTP no one knows where the connection is to be made, rumours have surfaced that it will sandwiched between the Hard drive.

Oh wow. I cant even imagine that given the disc diameter alone :lol

 

[bigNman]

Their research shows 90% of Xbox 360 owners own or intend to purchase an HDTV in the six months, nine out of 10 of the people purchasing an HDTV cite Xbox 360 as the primary catalyst, and 10% of those with an HDTV also purchased an Xbox 360 simultaneously.

But the majority of those hardcore gamers will also buy a PS3!

 

[kaching]

Fuck SONY in the ass. Not Started.

Fixed.

 

[gofreak]

Too much to read .

When are Bluray movies and players available?

I think the first player in the US is coming in March. Same time as the first HD-DVD player. Launch movies will be available with the first hardware.

edit - first Blu-ray standalone player will be in the US in "early spring" (I thought I'd read March elsewhere..).

 

[damisa]

I don't see what the big deal is about an optional non-gaming deveice. Seriously the 360 bashing on this board is quite humorous.

 

[3rdman]

I don't see what the big deal is about an optional non-gaming deveice. Seriously the 360 bashing on this board is quite humorous.

Its GAF and somewhere along the way its gotten flooded with too many rooters of one company or another. An optional, non-gaming device...this thing is about as "dangerous" as claiming that the 360 will support iPods...oh wait!

OH NO! MS splintering their market again!

 

[Deg]

I don't see what the big deal is about an optional non-gaming device. Seriously the 360 bashing on this board is quite humorous.

:lol :lol :lol

The damage control is crazy in this topic.
Well done MS for announcing something that shouldn't have been an add on and even then the wrong format to boot. :lol

This just gives Sony even more leverage for justifying their higher price. The addons for 360 are ridiculous.

 

[bill0527]

Sorry if this has been asked before (it's difficult to keep track of all these CES related threads) but do we know how the Xbox 360 is supposed to communicate with the announced HD-DVD player add-on? Since it doesn't have a dedicated "expansion port", will it use the Ethernet one? If so, why should't you be able to connect any HD-DVD player since all seem to have the Ethernet socket? *confused*

It will probably work similar to way Microsoft's own USB wi-fi adapter works. You can only use Microsoft's wi-fi adapter because the 360 OS only reads drivers for that adapter.

 

[3rdman]

:lol :lol :lol

The damage control is crazy in this topic.
Well done MS for announcing something that shouldn't have been an add on and even then the wrong format to boot. :lol

This just gives Sony even more leverage for justifying their higher price. The addons for 360 are ridiculous.

Again...and for the zillionth time....this is not an add-on. Its an accessory. It is as necessary as an iPod...whats wrong with some of you?

 

[jett]

Some people are running MAD damage control in here. Jeezus.

 

[DrEvil]

Again...and for the zillionth time....this is not an add-on. Its an accessory. It is as necessary as an iPod...whats wrong with some of you?

Can you wear the HDDVD drive on your arm? around your neck? on your toy poodle?

This is an ATTACHMENT, ala 64DD or whateverthefuck else -- Accessories are small, accessories are a screencleaner for your DS..

 

[AirBrian]

Again...and for the zillionth time....this is not an add-on. Its an accessory. It is as necessary as an iPod...whats wrong with some of you?

:lol :lol :lol


Main Entry: 1 add-on
Function: noun
: something added on: as a : a sum or amount added on b : something (as an accessory or added feature) that enhances the thing it is added to

Main Entry: 1 ac·ces·so·ry
Variant(s): also ac·ces·sa·ry /ik-'se-s&-rE, ak-, ek-, -'ses-rE, also &-'se-/
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
2 a : a thing of secondary or subordinate importance : ADJUNCT b : an object or device not essential in itself but adding to the beauty, convenience, or effectiveness of something else <auto accessories> <clothing accessories>

I'm sorry, what were you saying?

 

[TTP]

Again...and for the zillionth time....this is not an add-on. Its an accessory. It is as necessary as an iPod...whats wrong with some of you?

You are 90% right IMO. The 10% part is that unlike the iPod the 360 HD-DVD add on can only be used in combo with the console and not as a stand alone device. But anyway, yeah, people are looking at this with the wrong angle. I was too at first when it was announced.

 

[Ghost]

You are 90% right IMO. The 10% part is that unlike the iPod the 360 HD-DVD add on can only be used in combo with the console and not as a stand alone device.

....maybe not just on the console.


If its USB

 

[borghe]

You are 90% right IMO. The 10% part is that unlike the iPod the 360 HD-DVD add on can only be used in combo with the console and not as a stand alone device. But anyway, yeah, people are looking at this with the wrong angle. I was too at first when it was announced.

QFT. really I can't see how people are bitching about this. It doesn't affect the console, doesn't change anything about it. It just gives owners of the system a cheaper alternative to a fullblown HD DVD player.

now if MS releases games on HD-DVD, SegaCD aweigh.. if it looks like and walks like a duck.... but at this point the MS and 360 bashing are silly.. it is nothing more than the VCD cards for the 3DO and Saturn which I never saw people bitching about.

 

[3rdman]

:lol :lol :lol


Main Entry: 1 add-on
Function: noun
: something added on: as a : a sum or amount added on b : something (as an accessory or added feature) that enhances the thing it is added to

Main Entry: 1 ac·ces·so·ry
Variant(s): also ac·ces·sa·ry /ik-'se-s&-rE, ak-, ek-, -'ses-rE, also &-'se-/
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
2 a : a thing of secondary or subordinate importance : ADJUNCT b : an object or device not essential in itself but adding to the beauty, convenience, or effectiveness of something else <auto accessories> <clothing accessories>

I'm sorry, what were you saying?

No...a traditional add-on in the console realm is more akin to the PS2's HDD or Genny's SegaCD. Its a pre-requisite to own in order to play a game. This is not the same thing at all. You never have to buy this thing in order to play a game...its strictly for movie playback. So go back to Webster and tell them I sent you.

 

[TTP]

....maybe not just on the console.


If its USB

Well, why announcing an "XBox 360 HD-DVD player" if it works with anything?

 

[Ghost]

Have any USB console devices not been PC compatible with a little driver fiddling?

 

[Amir0x]

this thread is gonna be archived.

 

[borghe]

Have any USB console devices not been PC compatible with a little driver fiddling?

the correct answer is no.

however getting the drive recognized is only the first step in this case.

 

[Flo_Evans]

oh Peter, you so crazy!

 

[Deg]

oh Peter, you so crazy!

Best gaming exec ever.

Ken should just stand down

 

[kaching]

QFT. really I can't see how people are bitching about this. It doesn't affect the console, doesn't change anything about it. It just gives owners of the system a cheaper alternative to a fullblown HD DVD player.

There's been some valid criticisms offered in this thread. I think JackFrost and Mike Works have raised the issue of value perception rather well in comparison to the PS3. Also the very fact that this will be limited to movie playback only is a shame - we've already seen multiple developers saying they're bumping up against the confines for DVD storage with their early next gen games. It would have been better to get HDDVD support out of the box with the 360 instead. If this is, as some have suggested, an attempt to muddy the next gen DVD waters, then there's a very real chance of that backfiring for negative effect to the 360.

 

[DECK'ARD]

So what are the odds for:

A) Special Edition versions of 360 games being released on HD-DVD

B) A version of the 360 hardware being released with an HD-DVD drive as standard

Both seem possible to me, and both serve to make the other more likely. It's a slippery slope to a fractured userbase. If PS3 gets too much attention for it's HD movie playback, I think it's quite likely the drive will become standard to fix the perceived-value problem in the mind of the consumer.

 

[Amir0x]

Well they didn't mention games in this process, Nash, so let's hope the odds are very, very low. Because doing what you suggested would start to be where this proposition becomes a disaster.

 

[TerryLee81]

MS should make the HDDVD drive standard as soon as possible, and the ones who bought an X360 with a normal DVD drive can exchange their unit for free.

In this case Games on HDDVD would be possible.

 

[AirBrian]

No...a traditional add-on in the console realm is more akin to the PS2's HDD or Genny's SegaCD. Its a pre-requisite to own in order to play a game. This is not the same thing at all. You never have to buy this thing in order to play a game...its strictly for movie playback. So go back to Webster and tell them I sent you.

So then would you consider 360’s HDD an add-on or accessory? What about the bongos for GC? What about dance-pads? Eye-Toy? Aren’t those things considered accessories? But you need them to play certain games, right? Frankly, I don’t give a shit if the HD-DVD drive is considered an add-on or accessory. Are consumers going to walk-in to Best Buy and not buy it because it’s an accessory rather than an add-on? It’s just semantics, and will not make one ounce of difference in the market.

The "traditional" definitions are thrown out the door as consoles become more than just game players and as the companies making the consoles market them that way.

 

[Vennt]

Well they didn't mention games in this process, Nash, so let's hope the odds are very, very low. Because doing what you suggested would start to be where this proposition becomes a disaster.

What if there was publisher/developer pressure towards HD-DVD game utilization due to DVD's storage constraints, would MS buckle on this?

I think the "no games" statement is really a "no games, yet..." statement personally.

 

[Sunski]

Why couldn't ms have waited 4 months and released the 360 with more polished games and this "add on" as the standard drive? They haven't exactly gotten much of a headstart anyway due to their low production rate...

 

[Gio_CoD]

At this point I think it's pretty much a certainty that they'll eventually release an Xbox 360 with the HD drive built in. Much like how Sony eventually admitted it's mistake and manufactured the new PSTwo with the network adapter already attached (and admitted a second mistake and left the hard drive unattachable).

I think MS will stay strong in regards to the stance that games will only release on DVD-9.

I can see both sides of the argument on this one. On one hand, how does the option of purchasing an additional accessory hurt early adopters? It doesn't. If you don't want to buy it, don't. It's that simple.

Then the other hand is that this will be seen as a value situation by consumers. When the PS3 comes out and Blu-Ray is already in the machine, and then they see they'll have to purchase an addon for the 360 to play HD-DVD, people will think the PS3 is a better buy. And hell, it would be most likely. Unless this add on retails for a dirt cheap price.

Then there's the third point, why in God's name would people buy an add on for the 360 when they could just purchase a standalone player? Unless the price is significantly less for the add on than standalone players.

I'm wondering if there is a possibility of this thing retailing for ~50 bucks. If all they have to include is a plastic shell and a new laser, with the 360 doing the real decoding work, why does it need to cost a lot?

Basically, that's the only way I can see this thing being anything other than a complete failure. If MS can get it out there around 50 bucks (somebody explain to me why that would be or wouldn't be possible), then they may have a chance at success.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

If I have to pay over $100 for the add on, I'll be going the Blu Ray route for my movie collection. I'll just take the PS3 that comes with the drive BUILT-IN instead of getting screwed later.

'Tard packs all around it seems...

 

[PS2 KID]

MS should make the HDDVD drive standard as soon as possible, and the ones who bought an X360 with a normal DVD drive can exchange their unit for free.

In this case Games on HDDVD would be possible.

That makes a lot of sense and in a perfect world that would be the best solution.

However, Microsoft accountants will be dropping by your house soon and you will never be heard from again.

 

[Deg]

What if there was publisher/developer pressure towards HD-DVD game utilization due to DVD's storage constraints, would MS buckle on this?

I think the "no games" statement is really a "no games, yet..." statement personally.

They never said a word about games. So it seems pretty open.

Why couldn't ms have waited 4 months and released the 360 with more polished games and this "add on" as the standard drive? They haven't exactly gotten much of a headstart anyway due to their low production rate...

Not to mention so many faulty xbox 360.

MS should make the HDDVD drive standard as soon as possible, and the ones who bought an X360 with a normal DVD drive can exchange their unit for free. In this case Games on HDDVD would be possible.

Yeah MS might do something about this since they announced this addon just after a month of launch.

 

[3rdman]

So then would you consider 360’s HDD an add-on or accessory? What about the bongos for GC? What about dance-pads? Eye-Toy? Aren’t those things considered accessories? But you need them to play certain games, right? Frankly, I don’t give a shit if the HD-DVD drive is considered an add-on or accessory. Are consumers going to walk-in to Best Buy and not buy it because it’s an accessory rather than an add-on? It’s just semantics, and will not make one ounce of difference in the market.

The "traditional" definitions are thrown out the door as consoles become more than just game players and as the companies making the consoles market them that way.

The HDD is an accessory...you don't need it to play the game, hence your market is not split. Bongos, Dance Pads, Marracass, whatever are necessary to playing a paticular game...I guess I would consider them as game add-ons.

I can't comment on how the market will embrace/distance themselves to it. My problem with it being refered to as an add-on is the overture that somehow MS is splintering their userbase and they are clearly not. If the consumer asks, "do I need this to play Halo 3?" His answer will be no...and that is what is important.

 

[TerryLee81]

That makes a lot of sense and in a perfect world that would be the best solution.

However, Microsoft accountants will be dropping by your house soon and you will never be heard from again.

Yeah and probably it wouldn't be enough to exchange the drive only, 1080p via Component is not possible IIRC.

 

[borghe]

I agree MS should have launched with a hi-cap drive builtin. I think their desire to be first to market has hurt them in many ways, this just being one.

I also agree that providing HD-DVD special editions or HD-DVD exclusive games would be insanely bad. anyone who doesn't think so obviously wasn't around for the SegaCD debacle. Or even worse, the 32x/SegaCD combo debacle.

but as an add-on that simply plays movies, much like the VCD addons for the older systems, I think this is perfectly fine.

Had MS announced this at E3, I would be worried. But announcing it at CES gives it a very different feel. About the only thing I see this as is a competitor to the PS3's BRD video capabilities.

 

[Gio_CoD]

The HDD is an accessory...you don't need it to play the game, hence your market is not split. Bongos, Dance Pads, Marracass, whatever are necessary to playing a paticular game...I guess I would consider them as game add-ons.

You don't *need* the bongos or dance pads to play DKonga/DDR, but the game would sure suck without 'em.

 

[Amir0x]

What if there was publisher/developer pressure towards HD-DVD game utilization due to DVD's storage constraints, would MS buckle on this?

I think the "no games" statement is really a "no games, yet..." statement personally.

I don't think there will be because i think pubs/devs know at this point that doing it would be pretty suicidal for the userbase, because it'd be fractured all over the place then. They'd probably rather keep it uniform in this way.

I mean, it could happen... I just don't think the odds are very high. And I hope it remains that way, because then this would turn into a disaster instead of a very funny joke that is slightly overblown.

 

[3rdman]

So what are the odds for:

A) Special Edition versions of 360 games being released on HD-DVD

B) A version of the 360 hardware being released with an HD-DVD drive as standard

Both seem possible to me, and both serve to make the other more likely. It's a slippery slope to a fractured userbase. If PS3 gets too much attention for it's HD movie playback, I think it's quite likely the drive will become standard to fix the perceived-value problem in the mind of the consumer.

A. Slim to none.
B. I can see it happening later in its lifespan...perhaps once the HD "war" is decided. But even then, I doubt any games would produced on anything other than DVD's.

 

[3rdman]

You don't *need* the bongos or dance pads to play DKonga/DDR, but the game would sure suck without 'em.

Samba de Amigo without marracas??!!?!? Herasy!

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I was a pessimist going into the original XBox, and it turned out to be probably my most played console of the 3. That really surprised me. Microsoft surprised me (pleasantly). Now it just looks to me like they're aiming more at making back the dollars they've lost instead of increasing the consumer's benefit at the reward of a higher marketshare. And even though I've stated this in practically every post I've made in this thread, I'll do it once more;

I wholeheartedly understand that Microsoft is doing this as a company, and fiscally stuff like microtransactions and shorter generations makes sense. I'm just saying that the way they've approached their second generation in the console industry has the huge potential to be hurtful to the consumer in a very negative way.

No one really cares anymore, but this sums up a lot of how I feel. And I wasn't really all that pessimistic to begin with (bought the xbox first this gen!).

As someone who a year ago was a lock to buy their next system but then sold my day 1 pre-order (for not enough mind you!), I see how all these decisions Xbox has made to launch early might work from a fiscal perspective. On the other hand, the lack of an integrated large format medium, the drive away from a guaranteed hard drive (and how that effects development) really bummed me out from a technological perspective. Take away the last gen power margin and you kill a lot of the reasons I might have made an easy jump to the next generation showing. Especially when I still don't see a lot of killer support in comparison to their competitors (essentially only the PS3 for a traditional whammo system).

I'm really feeling MS decision to be more fiscally conservative this round, and as a gamer and not a partisan, it gives Sony a lot more mindspace right now. At least it makes waiting a whole lot easier for someone a little older who doesn't care to support every machine out there anymore.

 

[DopeyFish]

Hd-DVD will NOT be used for games even if at a later point in time it becomes part of the system (same applies with blu-ray if it becomes the standard)

It is strictly for movies, nothing more.

 

[Gio_CoD]

No one really cares anymore, but this sums up a lot of how I feel. And I wasn't really all that pessimistic to begin with (bought the xbox first this gen!).

As someone who a year ago was a lock to buy their next system but then sold my day 1 pre-order (for not enough mind you!), I see how all these decisions Xbox has made to launch early might work from a fiscal perspective. On the other hand, the lack of an integrated large format medium, the drive away from a guaranteed hard drive (and how that effects development) really bummed me out from a technological perspective. Take away the last gen power margin and you kill a lot of the reasons I might have made an easy jump to the next generation showing. Especially when I still don't see a lot of killer support in comparison to their competitors (essentially only the PS3 for a traditional whammo system).

I'm really feeling MS decision to be more fiscally conservative this round, and as a gamer and not a partisan, it gives Sony a lot more mindspace right now. At least it makes waiting a whole lot easier for someone a little older who doesn't care to support every machine out there anymore.

For what it's worth, you pretty much described me to a 'T'. I can actually feel the reprecussions of Microsoft's decision to make this go-round more fiscally responsible. And I can't blame them for that. They're in it to make money afterall, but I guess I just liked the way they went balls-to-the-wall with the original Xbox in order to get people to purchase it.

A couple of years ago I would have said that I'd buy every next gen console on day 1. I even bought an HDTV in preparation for the next generation consoles.

Now that I've seen 360, I can't bring myself to spend 400 bucks on it. The games aren't there to me. The graphics (so far) aren't up to par for me. The 10 dollar hike in games isn't going to work for me. I've gone from a hardcore to someone who can take the wait and see attitude.

Ironically, the only console I'm absolutely pumped about is the Revo. And that's gonna end up being the least technically impressive out of the three.

I won't be purchasing an X360 or a PS3 until:

1.) Both machines are out.
2.) I can see the difference in power and features.
3.) There is a game I can't live without. It's looking like MGS4 might do that for me.

 

[shibbs]

I red this news at work and thought: "GAF is gonna love this!"

*Looks at 17 pages*

I was right :lol

 

[Mrbob]

No one really cares anymore, but this sums up a lot of how I feel. And I wasn't really all that pessimistic to begin with (bought the xbox first this gen!).

As someone who a year ago was a lock to buy their next system but then sold my day 1 pre-order (for not enough mind you!), I see how all these decisions Xbox has made to launch early might work from a fiscal perspective. On the other hand, the lack of an integrated large format medium, the drive away from a guaranteed hard drive (and how that effects development) really bummed me out from a technological perspective. Take away the last gen power margin and you kill a lot of the reasons I might have made an easy jump to the next generation showing. Especially when I still don't see a lot of killer support in comparison to their competitors (essentially only the PS3 for a traditional whammo system).

I'm really feeling MS decision to be more fiscally conservative this round, and as a gamer and not a partisan, it gives Sony a lot more mindspace right now. At least it makes waiting a whole lot easier for someone a little older who doesn't care to support every machine out there anymore.

I think you're mad you can't find one.

The lack of a larger media format is a problem, I agree. However the HDD issue is not once you have a system. There are still developers are optimizing games with and without hdd. Heck DoA4 loads all the stages in about 3 seconds if you have a hdd. Oblivion will take advantage of the hdd too. Also, the HDD is infinitely more useful as an add on for 360 than it ever was integrated into every xbox. Downloadable game demos is huge. I mean I get to try out Fight Night Round 3 a month before the game is even out. The demo alone sold me on the game when I never would have rented it in the first place.

360 has had a bumpy start, which I hope gets better. The launch wasn't bad. Condemned is a brilliant game, and PD0 is great fun online. DoA4 is amazing too. With games like Oblvion, Mass Effect, Ninja Gaiden 2, Halo 3, Gears of War, etc. things are looking up. I also believe EA sports games coming out in 2006 will be significantly improved, and there will be minimal difference between the PS3 and 360 version, if at all. If high defintion movies is something you are interested in, I can understand waiting. PS3 will more than likely be a much more inclusive value packaged system. If it wasn't for Team Ninja supporting the 360 exclusively, I probably would have waited for PS3 as well. It is probably for the best MS irons out these problems while they are the only system on the market. IF this would have happened while the PS3 is already out it would have been more devestating.

 

[soepkip]

Hd-DVD will NOT be used for games even if at a later point in time it becomes part of the system (same applies with blu-ray if it becomes the standard)

It is strictly for movies, nothing more.

Then what's the use of releasing an external drive? What would be the benefit over just buying a 'real' HD-DVD player?