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[fortified_concept]

There are no perfect consoles or video games. There are however people who will sit around with this "Prove it." attitude toward anything remotely positive, and a hyperactive "OMG DOOM3d I told you so!" attitude toward anything negative. Or not negative, just what they don't understand. And most seem to belong to one camp.

MrBob is like some sort of forum politician. Really, an unpopular or minority opinion can be right and reasonable.

I'm sorry but if you're implying that in this thread Sony fans were screaming OMG DOOMED you're sadly mistaken. They were making fun of Microsoft and how they've screwed some things up by launching too early, and very well they did, they were claiming that it'll have some repercussions on 360's image and I think they were right, and they did say it's a ridiculous move and again I agree.

On the other hand we have the usual xbox fans who will damage control anything and probably attack you personally in case you dare to critisize their precious console. And why? Because we just state the obvious: Microsoft's move was stupid.

 

[fortified_concept]

The problem I run into is that I don't pick a side. There are those who would say I picked PSP over DS, and I did for awhile, but DS proved itself to me so I bought it. If I would go all Xbox 360 or all PS3 I would be better off. Yet I can't like the Xbox platforms, also like Blu Ray and PS3, and point out flaws in the 360 at the same time. I could care less about the reputation system to be honest, as I have some of the most reasonable posts on GAF as a whole. The problem is two certain mods didn't like me ripping into DS. I've stopped that, yet the whole PSP/DS war still escalates anyway without my involvement. Nice to see since it seems like those two tried to pine the entire DS/PSP flame war on me.

You're a very confused person. You even confused me by reading your post.

 

[Mrbob]

You're a very confused person. You even confused me by reading your post.

Ok, I'll make it simple.

I'm one of the most unbiased system warriors at gaf.

I play PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360, DS, PSP, PC, and I did own a GC at one time. I'm getting a PS3 and DS proved to me that Nintendo can do something decent when they try something different, so I'm looking forward to Revolution. I just prefer Xbox and more than likely 360 to other platforms. I've been hard on Nintendo in the past, and this is where I've been knocked here by certain people. But I'm starting to come around to them again.

I hate how you have if you say something nice or something bad against a platform you get pigeon holed for or against a certain sector.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

:lol :lol :lol Thanks for this thread.

Anyone who thinks this thing will be cheap, or even remotely affordable, should look at the prices of every other first-party accessory for the 360. They're not going to sell you a $100 20GB hard drive and turn around and shovel off an HD-DVD drive for under $200.

 

[Borys]

I'm Dense? pathetic? funny, where did I ever say MS had 'no flaws'? Or am I pathetic because I'm not a halfwitted fucktard that's quick to judge based on my consumer level knowledge of a video-disc format war I currently don't give an honest damn about? Really, Borys, how many times HAVE I said I prefer Blu-ray? or have you been glossing over that the last few months? How about this: I'm amazed how blitheringly idiotic people can be to assume the largest software company in the world is stupid for not throwing away its money building an expensive disk format into a loss-leading videogame console. Seriously, get a goddamn clue before you throw your ridiculous generalizations at me because I'm not joining your little circle-jerk. Don't automatically assume I'm some hapless fanboy, because I don't drink the idiot koolaid with the other morons.

Tell you what: I don't want anything from you, considering your presumptousness to lump me in with people who apparently love a corporate entity. Be it Sony, Microsoft, or god help them, the Nintendo kids. that's fucking retarded. I don't 'love' microsoft one goddamn bit. I respect them, about as much as I was willing to give them my $400 for my 360. The same goes for my PSP. That's pretty much where it ends. My money speaks for my gaming preferences, and I'm confidant enough in my own tastes to feel no need to defend them at every juncture. I have two $50 deposits at two stores in two different states waiting for a price and date announcement from sony so they can be rolled over to PS3 reservations. Don't drag me into this corporate advocacy bullshit, I don't play that game. I also don't act like a whining pessemist either, because that's no better, in my opinion.

Alright. Noted, corrected and changed the engraving on my "enemies" list.

I hope it's not too late to be friends, eh m0dus?

 

[Legal Step]

This is funny, in so many ways.

 

[TheDuce22]

I'm sorry but if you're implying that in this thread Sony fans were screaming OMG DOOMED you're sadly mistaken. They were making fun of Microsoft and how they've screwed some things up by launching too early, and very well they did, they were claiming that it'll have some repercussions on 360's image and I think they were right, and they did say it's a ridiculous move and again I agree.

Thats the problem. Sony fans filled out the majoirty of this thread with trolls and a couple of valid points (mostly trolls), but anyone who dares post an opposing viewpoint is a stupid fanboy in damage controll mode. Posts pics of every gaming addon known to man and its fine. Point out that they have next to nothing in common with an addon that only plays HD-DVD movies and your an xbot.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Damn, I need to catch up on this whole thing. I had no idea there was an HD dvd upgrade coming for the 360. How did people think they would do it? Another SKU? MS is really needs to learn from Sega's past mistakes. I mean come on, this is a rookie mistake that MS should not be making.

 

[Borys]

I dunno. My buddy Micro$oft tends to get jealous! And Sony, she can be a mean drunk . . .

:lol

The $ony Mafia already rang me. I'm in deep shit right now.

But serioulsy: most of the times I'm a cool guy yet sometimes I'm acting like a pathetic fanboi loser :/ It's just a goddamn habit of mine.

 

[snatches]

SMARTEST. XBOX. FAN. EVER.

Reading posts like this helps me understand just how DENSE and PATHETIC Shogmaster, Dopey Fish, m0dus etc. are. They couldn't, they can't and they never will find a single flaw on the Xbox/ Xbox 360. For them it's a perfect console, for perfect price with perfect games and perfect features. It's very hard to take such people seriously.

When you've got lots of CURRENT Xbox 360 owners laughing at the stupidity of this move and the usual brigade blindly and furioulsy defending their beloved company you know who is in the sad fanboi camp.

Of course I must give them - at least m0dus and Dopey - that their love for everything Xbox doesn't mean equal hate for all things Sony, that's a big plus, they are better than me in that regard.

Man, if every poster would be like Mr Bob (not like Xbots, Nbots, not like me etc.) GAF would be a better place.

Yeah, as a 360 owner I can pretty much agree with all of Mr. Bob's post. However, I don't believe that the 360 not having an HD movie format is a real disadvantage. I'm not planning on investing a nickel in BR or HDDVD until a clear winner emerges and the price of content goes down....assuming the pricing is high to start with. I don't want to pay for something I don't need. I have an HDTV but lack HDMI, so I will not be in the market for a next gen movie format for a while. So in my opinion, I only want to pay for features in a game console that I will actually use.

That only leaves the possibility of higher capacity storage for GAMES via BR. It is undetermined right now how big a factor this will be. How many games will take advantage of the extra memory in a real tangible way? And if so, what would the cost comparison be between 1 BR and 2-3DVD's if the MS version requires multiple discs? Surely for the next 2-3 years DVD media will be much cheaper than BR.....

With all that said I must point out that this announcement is a really stupid move on MS part. The mass market will view this a playing catch up with PS3. Like MS is admitting a mistake by offering this item as an add-on after the fact. It also ruins any percieved price advantage that MS would have had at the PS3 launch, as casuals will just perceive that they need to add the cost of the HDDVD drive to the 360 price to fairly compare the two before making a purchase decision.

Don't even get me started on the PR spin Sony will be able to hit everyone with.

What an embarrassingly stupid move. In two years, that add on will be as useful as a betamax deck. The sega CD comparisons won't really hit home until the damn thing is obsolete and sitting in your gear rack......

 

[Baron Aloha]

The only thing I could even *possibly* see happening in the future are a couple of games that might require the hard drive. Maybe something like a MMORPG. I doubt even that will happen.

Actually, its already happening. Final Fantasy XI requires the HDD.

 

[DopeyFish]

SMARTEST. XBOX. FAN. EVER.

Reading posts like this helps me understand just how DENSE and PATHETIC Shogmaster, Dopey Fish, m0dus etc. are. They couldn't, they can't and they never will find a single flaw on the Xbox/ Xbox 360. For them it's a perfect console, for perfect price with perfect games and perfect features. It's very hard to take such people seriously.

When you've got lots of CURRENT Xbox 360 owners laughing at the stupidity of this move and the usual brigade blindly and furioulsy defending their beloved company you know who is in the sad fanboi camp.

Of course I must give them - at least m0dus and Dopey - that their love for everything Xbox doesn't mean equal hate for all things Sony, that's a big plus, they are better than me in that regard.

Man, if every poster would be like Mr Bob (not like Xbots, Nbots, not like me etc.) GAF would be a better place.

Dude wtf. When I read the announcement I didn't immediately start damage controlling... I was hounding people at MS going WTF to them. I don't usually post any MS negativity because the people at GAF easily over-compensate for that, and adding to any of it really doesn't help anything.

But I do get mad if people unfairly square MS into a corner making it seem like it's the end of the world and the huge effort the people at Microsoft put into the project is now wasted because the console war is over. MS is doomed. Bullshit like that.

After reading the uncontrollable amount of 360/MS bashing and the personal jabs that were thrown at me in this thread, I'm holding back.

 

[xsarien]

After reading the uncontrollable amount of 360/MS bashing and the personal jabs that were thrown at me in this thread, I'm holding back.

Well maybe if you didn't take criticism of the XBox so damned personally, you wouldn't bring that stuff on yourself.

 

[radioheadrule83]

An external add on might actually look just fine with that concave design... tethered to it might make it a bit odd, but if it sits on top or below when its horizontal, it could look pretty sweet. I havent got time to check the entire thread before I go to bed, were there any details released on the aesthetics?

 

[nitewulf]

isn't this a better option than a whole console redesign, i mean if it only plays movies...then who gives a shit? the game sector is staying the same. if they plan to actually release enhanced games on the other hand...that i could see as a problem.

 

[Yamaha98]

In just for the sake of GAF history

 

[monkeymagic]

isn't this a better option than a whole console redesign

The question is why is this even an option on a gaming machine.

Blu-Ray in PS3 will be used for games and yet many people were questioning its inclusion in PS3 as they were DVD in PS2.

This is akin to releasing an add-on for every potentially successful new format or fad just because they want to appeal to that particular non-gaming sector.

Hardly a strategy for success but then MS gained their monopolistic foothold in the OS market by initially hedging their bets and being a jack of all trades - master of none.

 

[IJoel]

Well... this seems to have calmed down now. Quite amusing last night.

Anyway, my thoughts on this:

1. Lack of foresight by MS to not have forecasted something like this, and modified the X360 design so that the actual drive is docked and could be exchanged, in the same way the faceplate is. This is done with the HDD already and there should be no difference in terms of the interface it uses (SATA.) Maybe not lack of foresight and poor decision making since I'm not sure they weren't aware of this (they've been mentioning that in the future there might be a new version or the box would be future proof and so and so.)

2. I doubt this will have any significant impact in sales at all. At the end of the day, the add-on will most likely fail, as it'll most probably be a pricey one. I don't expect this for under $150.

3. The timing to announce this was just extremely bad. It's way too soon for such announcements. This should've been announced at E3. MS should've, instead, demonstrated their camera peripheral for the 360 with gaming applications and whatever they are planning to do with it.

4. Personally, I'm buying one if it's at around $150, and has all the features of an HD-DVD player. It will give me the opportunity to own both formats (BluRay with the PS3,) and I won't have to miss any hi-def movies that might be exclusive to either of them. If any of them fail, I'll still have the other one, and it won't bother me because the console will remain being that, a games console. Sure, it'd end up being $150 down the drain, but that's the price of early adoption for all devices. For instance, my HDTV doesn't have HDMI inputs, so I'm simply out of luck for hi-def movies (not including cable.)

 

[Ponn]

Does this matter in the scheme of things? Not really. It doesn't play games, if it did then yes that would be bad and just splintering and pissing off their own market. For just movies it's a bit confusing but not a huge deal.

Does it continue to show how half assing they are doing just about everything with the Xbox 360? Pretty much. They had to rush it out the door because they felt the need to beat PS3 to the market. So the consumer ends up with half ass BC, half ass media streaming, half ass worldwide launch and now half ass HD movie support. Sorry if people get upset but it's really aggrivating to me the way they are handling this console and now trying to disrupt and bring a format war to next gen media.

 

[DCharlie]

"It's effect on X360 is a negative "

... is it though? I mean, either people will buy it or people won't care - how on earth is it a negative? - i assume you mean in comparison to the PS3 in terms of 'what you need to buy to be equivalent'.

Well, one thing that people all seem to be doing is saying the PS3 is going to be better value, whilst imagining what the $??? price of the HD-DVD drive is, guessing what the PS3 $??? is and GUESSING THE PRICE OF THE X360 WHEN THE PS3 LAUNCHES - which might be April (!) or it might be Autumn, or it could even be xmas.

People don't think MS will move to an attractive price point?!

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

People don't think MS will move to an attractive price point?!

People like to assume Microsoft is dumb. It has been said many times that the 360 was made to get price down fast. It's just for movies, that's it.

 

[monkeymagic]

... is it though? I mean, either people will buy it or people won't care - how on earth is it a negative? - i assume you mean in comparison to the PS3 in terms of 'what you need to buy to be equivalent'.

Well, one thing that people all seem to be doing is saying the PS3 is going to be better value, whilst imagining what the $??? price of the HD-DVD drive is, guessing what the PS3 $??? is and GUESSING THE PRICE OF THE X360 WHEN THE PS3 LAUNCHES - which might be April (!) or it might be Autumn, or it could even be xmas.

People don't think MS will move to an attractive price point?!

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that PS3 will come in between $299 and $399.

Equivalent X360 + HD-DVD + WiFi is going to be minimum $499 if they sell the HD-DVD add-on for $100 and that is not going to happen considering the high pricing of current X360 accessories and MS' desire to profit this generation.

The same reason they won't/can't drop the price on PS3 release either.

 

[snatches]

... is it though?

PS3 will not be more than $499 for a core unit. Sony can easily spin it that is a better value than 360 + a tacky add on drive.

Sooooo....YES.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Crazy theory time:

Do you think MS (since they don't really care too too much about the HD-DVD vs BR war) went this route in order to make Sony feel more comfy at pricing PS3 higher? I mean, doesn't this just sorta give Sony an excuse to price PS3 at $400 to $500 and justifying it by saying it has a HD format "built-in"?

 

[NWO]

if they plan to actually release enhanced games on the other hand...that i could see as a problem.

Or if you need it to play Halo 3. :lol

 

[DCharlie]

"MS' desire to profit this generation."

again though, you run the risk of less profit if you stay at a high price point if your machine is not selling or is getting battered by the competition.

So in this case it may make more sense in terms of long term profit to take a bigger loss on the hardware in order to turn in more profit later (rather than be left with a dog product that less people want)

... or am i totally missing something here?!?

 

[Shompola]

Crazy theory time:

Do you think MS (since they don't really care too too much about the HD-DVD vs BR war) went this route in order to make Sony feel more comfy at pricing PS3 higher? I mean, doesn't this just sorta give Sony an excuse to price PS3 at $400 to $500 and justifying it by saying it has a HD format "built-in"?

I personally dont think so. I think they did it because of the threat BD might and probably will be in the future for MS... What kind of threat I dont know. But it does seem that MS isnt very comfortable with BluRay... MS alongside Intel are supporting HD-DVD... and I think in the end it was Toshiba that proposed the idea to offer an HD-DVD addon for the Xbox 360. Toshiba is IMO the one gambling the most here with the HD-DVD addon announcement. I doubt it will affect SONY and MS in the long run. Hopefully Toshiba doesnt persuade MS to offer an Xbox 360 SKU 3 with HD-DVD... now that would potentially damage MS IMO.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

PS3 will not be more than $499 for a core unit. Sony can easily spin it that is a better value than 360 + a tacky add on drive.

Sooooo....YES.

I can agree with this, but you have to convince the general consumer that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is a better deal than DVD and that they just need to have it. That is what they haven't done to this point. That goes for both camps

 

[DrGAKMAN]

I can agree with this, but you have to convince the general consumer that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is a better deal than DVD and that they just need to have it. That is what they haven't done to this point. That goes for both camps

Again, I'm glad Nintendo is staying out of this "war". BR is just an attempt by Sony at having thier own forum where they get more control/royalties and HD-DVD is an attempt to confuse/keep consumers away from BR which also buys DVD (Toshiba's money-maker) more market time. Both formats are stop-gaps and neither truly offer what they both originally promiced (recordability) and both are basically hendered by price & HDTV penetration issues. In fact, I think 'cos of this war (and it will be an ugly one: it'll be some studios, some game creators, some hardware companies versus rivals, all with thier own priorities/agenda's) could lead to bad things for Sony & MS...especially since by the time one of them "wins" someone (Matsushita) will be seriously ready to launch a newer better format with more unified support!

Keep it simple, keep it cheap, keep it fun: Nintendo.

 

[snatches]

I can agree with this, but you have to convince the general consumer that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is a better deal than DVD and that they just need to have it. That is what they haven't done to this point. That goes for both camps

Yeah, this is the other side of a very complex issue. MS could have just ignored the issue as far as the 360 goes and when asked about the lack of a HD movie playback option just shrugged and said "it's a game machine and a home network device" or digital media amplifier or what have you. I think by releasing this add on they are admitting that this type of fuctionality is important to their target demographic, but it appears it wasn't important for them to consider it a must have feature of the console in the first place.

I won't buy it for reasons I stated a couple of pages ago in this thread, and I love my 360. But it is easy to argue that this is a big mistake.

 

[monkeymagic]

That is what they haven't done to this point.

Of course neither have - there are no movies or players available so what are they going to advertise to consumers?

Once they are out we'll see whether the 'why should I upgrade from DVD' crowd sticks around longer than the 'why should I upgrade from VHS' crowd did.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Of course neither have - there are no movies or players available so what are they going to advertise to consumers?

Once they are out we'll see whether the 'why should I upgrade from DVD' crowd sticks around longer than the 'why should I upgrade from VHS' crowd did.

I don't think so, it's the same reason my SACD hasn't really done anything at retail. Things seem to do well when the physical medium changes, but about resolution, no. From VHS to DVD, we moved from bulky tape to sexy disc. Now, this is just disc to another disc. The average consumer isn't going to feel like there was any step up. Now, if the FCC stayed on track and everything turned digital last year instead of 2007, then there would be a valid reason. Current Blu-Ray discs still have the MPEG-2 codec for movies. There isn't any H.264 video in these. You think Java menus is going to entice the general population? My personal belief is that Blu-Ray will have a slight edge in living rooms while HD-DVD wins big on PCs. However, neither will do enough to establish themselves as a clear cut winner.

 

[monkeymagic]

Current Blu-Ray discs still have the MPEG-2 codec for movies. There isn't any H.264 video in these.

MPEG2 or H.264 is neither here nor there to consumers.

More and more retail floorspace being given to HDTVs is though - as will the onslaught of HD advertising over the next 18 months.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

MPEG2 or H.264 is neither here nor there to consumers.

Uh, yeah it is, it better damn well matter if you want to make the consumer go, I need that.

 

[xsarien]

Uh, yeah it is, it better damn well matter if you want to make the consumer go, I need that.

Your average consumer couldn't tell you the difference between the two, assuming you can get them past "H.2...what? Is that the muffler bracket on a '79 Pinto?"

 

[gofreak]

Uh, yeah it is, it better damn well matter if you want to make the consumer go, I need that.

As I understand it, H.264 simply offers *up to* the same quality as mpeg2, but at lower bitrates (depending on the type of content you're encoding). So, if you can fit your mpeg2 transfer on a disc, so be it. Mpeg2 processes are also a lot more mature, still, and transfer quality has a big part to play in overall picture quality for a movie on these discs.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Your average consumer couldn't tell you the difference between the two, assuming you can get them past "H.2...what? Is that the muffler bracket on a '79 Pinto?"

The technical terms will be rendered meaningless. However, you will have to make them say WOW. That is the goal for both camps. All these movie companies lining up means nothing until Joe Blow bites

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

As I understand it, H.264 simply offers *up to* the same quality as mpeg2, but at lower bitrates (depending on the type of content you're encoding). So, if you can fit your mpeg2 transfer on a disc, so be it. Mpeg2 processes are also a lot more mature, still, and transfer quality has a big part to play in overall picture quality for a movie on these discs.

H.264 is derived from MPEG-4. You are right about the data compression, but you can achieve higher resolution from H.264

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Quick Google search found me this

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/h264/

QuickTime 7 features a state-of-the-art video codec called H.264, which delivers stunning quality at remarkably low data rates. Ratified as part of the MPEG-4 standard (MPEG-4 Part 10), this ultra-efficient technology gives you excellent results across a broad range of bandwidths, from 3G for mobile devices to iChat AV for video conferencing to HD for broadcast and DVD.
Pixar
Massive Quality, Minimal Files

H.264 uses the latest innovations in video compression technology to provide incredible video quality from the smallest amount of video data. This means you see crisp, clear video in
much smaller files, saving you bandwidth and storage costs over previous generations of video codecs. H.264 delivers the same quality as MPEG-2 at a third to half the data rate and up to four times the frame size of MPEG-4 Part 2 at the same data rate. H.264 is truly a sight to behold.
Scalable from 3G to HD and Beyond

H.264 achieves the best-ever compression efficiency for a broad range of applications, such as broadcast, DVD, video conferencing, video-on-demand, streaming and multimedia messaging. And true to its advanced design, H.264 delivers excellent quality across a wide operating range, from 3G to HD and everything in between. Whether you need high-quality video for your mobile phone, iChat, Internet, broadcast or satellite delivery, H.264 provides exceptional performance at impressively low data rates.

No Wait for HD

The impressive efficiency of H.264 makes state-of-the-art video more accessible to more people, enabling you to experience the full quality of HD video on today’s computers. With H.264, an Apple Cinema HD Display and a dual Power Mac G5, you can turn your home office into a home theater, complete with gorgeous HD playback.
The New Industry Standard

Already ratified as part of the MPEG-4 standard — MPEG-4 Part 10 — and the ITU-T’s latest video-conferencing standard, H.264 is now mandatory for the HD-DVD and Blu-ray specifications (the two formats for high-definition DVDs) and ratified in the latest versions of the DVB (Digital Video Broadcasters) and 3GPP (3rd Generation Partnership Project) standards. Numerous broadcast, cable, videoconferencing and consumer electronics companies consider H.264 the video codec of choice for their new products and services. This adoption by a wide variety of open standards means that any company in the world can create devices — mobile phones, set-top boxes, DVD players and more — that will work seamlessly with QuickTime 7.

 

[Flipmo23]

I'm so tired of console add-ons. I always thought the premise behind a console system was the fact that everything was supposed to be out of the box, i.e. no need to buy additional parts or upgrade hardware [which is the sole reason why I don't play PC games anymore; I love em', but I don't have the money to keep up with them, shit, the 360 alone has me claiming 4 or 5 kids on my taxes just to get those extra dollars!

I understand that it's completely optional, but it's just annoying when companies make claims that their system will do this and that, and then decide to make additional add-ons because they couldn't afford to include it out of the box.

Think of the people that were forced to buy a core package on launch day because stores ran out of premiums; they had to buy the HDD for $99 and the A/V Kit for $39.99. Now that their system is "HD Ready", they have to shell out even more for the HD-DVD drive.

I thought my 360 was a console. I can only imagine some people's home theatre system dominated by the 360, with every USB port filled; an iPOD, a HD-DVD drive, and whatever else MS decides to include later.

 

[monkeymagic]

Quick Google search found me this

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/h264/

snip

Thanks but I'm well aware of what H.264 is since I encode movies with it everyday.

As gofreak mentioned it is perfect for low bitrate applications where size is a consideration e.g. streaming video and HD video on DVD9.

MPEG2 is fine for HD on 25GB/50GB discs and initial Blu-Ray titles will be encoded this way. Blu-Ray supports H.264 so no one is saying it won't be used in future.

Again, this is irrelevant to consumers as long as the bitrates and space for either codec are sufficient to offer clean, artifact free encodings.

This also has little bearing on consumer uptake of next gen DVD discs so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up other than a lack of pertinent arguments.

 

[conker]

Vaporware

I call intentional vaporware - no real intention to EVER sell more than a few (if any) of these.
This announcement / "product" is simply damage control for the PS3's Blu-Ray capabilities.

It would have been better if MS was on the BR camp and Sony was in bed with HD-DVD.

360 now + BR attachment soon or PS3 later with HD-DVD?
That's much more of a fair fight.

Too bad HD-DVD is dead.
This external attachment is doomed as well.


Can you imagine the shitfest we'd have if the Rev was competing with the 360 and PS3 in terms of power and capabilities (aligned with HD-DVD or BR)?
<insert muchroom cloud picture here>

edit--
You encode movies with h.264?
L O L
The best implementation of it is currently the Nero implementation.
And guess what - it's inconsistent and a pure resource hog.
H.264 is for LOW bitrate stuff, or normal bitrate HD stuff.

Mpeg-4 ASP (Xvid, Divx) are far more consistent with quality, and offer better quality at bitrates around 1000 kbps, than h.264. Plus, they are nowhere near the resource hogs that h.264 implementations are. (Quicktime, as usual, is the WORST)
Decoding h.264 is a bitch. Codecs and players are all over the place in regards to how they handle h.264 content, and decoding quality simply sucks in many cases.

Encoding doesn't matter. Be patient with your encodes. Choose the best quality settings available, and whatnot. Simple fact is, h.264 is NOT mature yet.

 

[heidern]

Oh my, what an awesome thread. And what an awful move by Microsoft. I cant believe how badly theyve handled the 360 so far, its the most missteps Ive seen in gaming since Segas hardware days.

... is it though? I mean, either people will buy it or people won't care - how on earth is it a negative? - i assume you mean in comparison to the PS3 in terms of 'what you need to buy to be equivalent'.

Well, one thing that people all seem to be doing is saying the PS3 is going to be better value, whilst imagining what the $??? price of the HD-DVD drive is, guessing what the PS3 $??? is and GUESSING THE PRICE OF THE X360 WHEN THE PS3 LAUNCHES - which might be April (!) or it might be Autumn, or it could even be xmas.

People don't think MS will move to an attractive price point?!

So what would that be? I suppose the expectation is, Sony release ps3 for $399. MS counter by cutting the price of the premium edition to $299. Is that attractive? Nintendo had a price advantage with gamecube over the ps2 too. It lacked features like DVD playback and BC, but it was more powerful. Didnt stop Sony from total victory. With the 360, it will be outfeatured with no wi-fi and lacking BC but it will be even less powerful than the ps3. Also no hd movie playback as standard, and with this lone blunder MS have themselves done as much as Sony to make it into issue that matters.

Its a worse position than Nintendo were in, and dare I say it, more like the position Sega were in with the Dreamcast or even worse in some ways. Furthermore, this strap-on will cost $199 or more and will actually directly make ps3 seem better value than the 360. And a price cut could also backfire as it could be seen as an admittance that it is inferior. Again, a worse position than Nintendo were in coming into this gen.

With Nintendo also entering this battle at a budget price, it could mean the 360 is trapped were the retard pack is seen as expensive next to the Revolution, and the premium pack is seen as outfeatured next to the mighty ps3. MS could be in the terrible position of middling mediocrity that doesnt appeal enough to either camp.

 

[human5892]

1. Lack of foresight by MS to not have forecasted something like this, and modified the X360 design so that the actual drive is docked and could be exchanged, in the same way the faceplate is. This is done with the HDD already and there should be no difference in terms of the interface it uses (SATA.) Maybe not lack of foresight and poor decision making since I'm not sure they weren't aware of this (they've been mentioning that in the future there might be a new version or the box would be future proof and so and so.)

2. I doubt this will have any significant impact in sales at all. At the end of the day, the add-on will most likely fail, as it'll most probably be a pricey one. I don't expect this for under $150.

3. The timing to announce this was just extremely bad. It's way too soon for such announcements. This should've been announced at E3. MS should've, instead, demonstrated their camera peripheral for the 360 with gaming applications and whatever they are planning to do with it.

Very sensible post and I completely agree. I especially like your idea about showing the camera instead -- in addition to the points you already made, that would've been a peripheral that would've a) been greeted with much better reaction, and b) helped demonstrate the 360's emphasis on community.

 

[monkeymagic]

edit--
You encode movies with h.264?
L O L
The best implementation of it is currently the Nero implementation.
And guess what - it's inconsistent and a pure resource hog.
H.264 is for LOW bitrate stuff, or normal bitrate HD stuff.

Mpeg-4 ASP (Xvid, Divx) are far more consistent with quality, and offer better quality at bitrates around 1000 kbps, than h.264. Plus, they are nowhere near the resource hogs that h.264 implementations are. (Quicktime, as usual, is the WORST)
Decoding h.264 is a bitch. Codecs and players are all over the place in regards to how they handle h.264 content, and decoding quality simply sucks in many cases.

Encoding doesn't matter. Be patient with your encodes. Choose the best quality settings available, and whatnot. Simple fact is, h.264 is NOT mature yet.

They're 1-2 minute clips not feature length movies - 320x-480x, 200-300kbit/s.

And they're not for archival purposes they're for streaming

I don't encode my own Hollywood movies - waste of time.

 

[AniHawk]

Holy damn, how did I miss this?

 

[fse]

HD-DVD dead? :lol Not even.

 

[Doube D]

HD-DVD dead? :lol Not even.

One foot in the grave to be precise.

 

[Spinning Plates]

Anyone think it's possible MS may sell this drive exclusively through the Marketplace so we get a good deal?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Anyone think it's possible MS may sell this drive exclusively through the Marketplace so we get a good deal?

No. But I think it'd be nice enough to give some kind of discount to early adopters...but that's crazy talk.