I'm pretty sure that "mass consumers" know how to type, and can type faster than they can write. At this point I pity anyone still befuddled by a QWERTY keyboard, but I don't pretend they're some huge untapped market. If you're that horrified by such a common input method, I doubt you're going to be buying any kind of PC or tablet.
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Microsoft Courier: dual-screen touch tablet
- Thread starter D4Danger
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Go to any library or campus computer lab -- most people are pretty adept. You can't really go through school or work in an office without being fairly proficient at keyboard use.Charred Greyface said:
And what, you don't think they teach typing in school?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute
In one study of average computer users, the average rate for transcription was 33 words per minute, and only 19 words per minute for composition.[1] In the same study, when the group was divided into "fast", "moderate" and "slow" groups, the average speeds were 40 wpm, 35 wpm, and 23 wpm
Marty Chinn
Member
border said:
We're talking about the same mass consumers who get confused by a normal PC that now need this iPad to make things easier for them? Let's face it, I don't thnk the mass market can type well. People still look down at the keys in general, and people can get by because they have to and there isn't any choice. Hell eople use that Dragon Naturally Speaking which is a reasonable success because people can't type well or fast. I think people deal with a keyboard because they have to and not because they're good at it. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people can write faster than they can type by a significant degree because it's easier and more natural to them, but that doesn't mean they can't use a keyboard at all.
I'd like to think there's a difference between being confused by the UI and layers of abstraction and file/directory setup.......and simply not knowing how to use a keyboard.Marty Chinn said:
Also interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute
Two-finger typists, sometimes also referred to as "hunt and peck" typists, commonly reach sustained speeds of about 37 wpm for memorized text, and 27 wpm when copying text but in bursts may be able to reach up to 60 to 70 wpm
If typing speed for both "proper" hand placement and hunt/peck style is at least 30 WPM, that seems pretty great as compared to a pen.
Earl Cazone
Member
do we know what kind of touchscreen it uses? resistive is dealbreaking for me
First of all, these are concept videos, the handwriting recognition being displayed may or may not work as advertised.
Secondly, the Courier will have an optional virtual keyboard when it ships, anyone who thinks it won't is dreaming. I'd be willing to bet you see an optional hardware keyboard as well.
Third, having watched these videos again, I'm failing to see how most of this stuff couldn't be done in a well designed journal app on the iPad, or any other tablet for that matter. It's cool stuff, it's just rather insular for a device like this. What else can it do? Is it only a journal?
Secondly, the Courier will have an optional virtual keyboard when it ships, anyone who thinks it won't is dreaming. I'd be willing to bet you see an optional hardware keyboard as well.
Third, having watched these videos again, I'm failing to see how most of this stuff couldn't be done in a well designed journal app on the iPad, or any other tablet for that matter. It's cool stuff, it's just rather insular for a device like this. What else can it do? Is it only a journal?
Who cares about pen vs keyboard? They both have their uses and MS should implement both for this device. If I'm in econ or math class, I'd rather have the pen. If i'm in comparative politics, I'll use the keyboard.
The biggest issue though that I've seen from stylus based tablets though is this problem (10 min mark): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ_U1exbv6A#t=10m20s
Is there a proper solution to this? Proper palm rejection on a multitouch capacitive display?
The biggest issue though that I've seen from stylus based tablets though is this problem (10 min mark): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ_U1exbv6A#t=10m20s
Is there a proper solution to this? Proper palm rejection on a multitouch capacitive display?
Karma said:
http://webusability.com/article_human_interaction_speeds_9_2000.htm
Two-finger typists can key memorized text at about 37 words per minute, and copy from one form to another at about 27 words per minute (Brown, 1988).
On average, people write (handprint) at about 31 words per minute for memorized text, and about 22 words per minute when copying text (Brown, 1988).
border said:
You said hunt and peck not Two-finger typists. You know actually hunting for the next key.
I can type 40 words a minute and would still rather use a pen for taking notes. Also, like someone already said, I am sure the Courier will have an on screen keyboard for those that want one.
Charred Greyface said:
I hunt and peck at the rate of about 60-70 wpm with the added benefit that hunt and peck is less prone to typos. Over my career, my hunt and peck has probably saved me loads of days. I would also say that I can't "write" anywhere near that speed.
I've looked at the different pads/slates/ebook readers and this is by far, the one that interests me most. The dual screens is perfect! Fold it up like a book and it goes to sleep and more importantly, protects the screens. The software looks amazing... I immediately started thinking about how I could use this for projects at work.
It has a browser, you can listen to music, and of course watch videos.
Tobor said:
It has a browser, you can listen to music, and of course watch videos.
I'm pretty sure that the people who get this don't give a fuck about how many wpm they can type or write. This is just another way to tell apart courier fanboys from ipad fanboys. Seriously, what it comes down to is if the person feels like doing more.
I pull out more wpm on a keyboard but I prefer writing most of the time, it feels natural and I only type when there is no other alternative. FFS
Oh yea any websites out there than can help you pull out more wpm on a keyboard. I'm averaging at 50wpm right now.
I pull out more wpm on a keyboard but I prefer writing most of the time, it feels natural and I only type when there is no other alternative. FFS
Oh yea any websites out there than can help you pull out more wpm on a keyboard. I'm averaging at 50wpm right now.
jedimike said:
Well, yeah, I get that, what I mean is where are the consumer oriented videos? So far every piece of media for this thing has been about the "journal", which frankly isn't going to be exciting to the mainstream. What I'm saying is, is this device going to be marketed as a journal appliance? That's great if it is, I think specialized appliances are going to have a place in the market going forward. If not, then they are seriously behind on a device that is supposedly releasing in Q4.
And again, these are concept videos. It's impossible to make any conclusions without seeing real world performance.
teiresias said:
I don't need a digital journal as a tablet's main focus, so I cant say one way or the other until we learn more about it.
In a few years, when the prices drop on this stuff, I'll probably own 3 or 4 tablets for various purposes, and this could easily be one of them.
EDIT: I used the same sentence twice. :lol
DataStream
Member
Tobor said:
I can tell you it will. It will use MSFTs already existing technology being used in Windows 7 to recognize handwriting and it will blow you away.
I have the worst handwriting out of anyone I know and by that I mean alot of the time *I* cannot read what I have written. Spending 15 minutes training the W7 handwriting recognition engine by doing some sessions seemingly resulted in 95% accuracy. With no change to how I write (for evernote I write verrrrrry carefully). After about a week of using it it missed fewer words a day than I do when typing in an hour.
Karma said:
If the Courier is going to be marketed as a mass market device, then they need to be beating the drum on consumer features now, before and during the iPad launch. They need to be doing content deals, and working with publishers to make sure content will work on a very different form factor.
If the main focus is going to be a digital journal, then they're in great shape. They've excited the people they need to excite already.
Tobor said:
my guess: windows7 slates with multi-touch skins will be marketed as iPad competitors. the HP slate and its kin. Windows phone 7 may also migrate to the single, large screen tablet and be used as the consumer level media consumption device.
The courier will remain focused on notes, pen input and the creative professional or whatever.
Tobor said:
One issue I could see right off the bat is interapp integration. iPad/pod/phones don't really support multitasking properly - and this device seems built around the interoperability and portability of data. It's not unsolvable, but right now the iPad is designed to use discrete apps, independent of each other.
Part of the appeal of this device is that it goes out of its way to eliminate those distinctions. Not a big deal, but a key focus difference.
LCfiner said:
I said this in an iPad thread, not as a troll but as a kind of inevitability. There may even be some advantages to certain types of user (business, professional, artist) because of the way 7 works as a real OS - iPhone OS works as an application launcher.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
It's pretty simple for me:
Can it be used for a digital sketchbook?
iPad = No (barring funky fingerpainting app horse shit). No purchase.
Courier = Unknown. If yes, will purchase!
Can it be used for a digital sketchbook?
iPad = No (barring funky fingerpainting app horse shit). No purchase.
Courier = Unknown. If yes, will purchase!
The Take Out Bandit said:It's pretty simple for me:
Can it be used for a digital sketchbook?
iPad = No (barring funky fingerpainting app horse shit). No purchase.
Courier = Unknown. If yes, will purchase!
I think it's obvious both of them will be. There's a capacitive stylus for the iPad/phone that should work fine. App support is where it gets tricky. And I don't know how accurate it is.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/dads/a31f/
I think Charred Greyface is the Gaf expert on iPhone capacitive pens. I think hes used more than a few.
Im sure there can and will be iPad apps that use it for notes and sketches.
what makes the Courier potentially much better for this task is the complete OS wide integration of the pen and how all the data is searchable and you dont need to switch apps to sketch and search and go to the web and whatnot.
The Courier custom UI is built around the concept of interating data objects and handwriting.
so, basically, its the Newton
Im sure there can and will be iPad apps that use it for notes and sketches.
what makes the Courier potentially much better for this task is the complete OS wide integration of the pen and how all the data is searchable and you dont need to switch apps to sketch and search and go to the web and whatnot.
The Courier custom UI is built around the concept of interating data objects and handwriting.
so, basically, its the Newton
OuterWorldVoice said:
That's very true, but not impossible to overcome. There are already Twitter clients that utilize a built in browser, and lots of apps have full access to the contact list. An app could theoretically be designed to accomplish all the tasks you see in the Courier video without having to leave the app. You could build a high grade stylus and sell it as a bundle.
That said, the portability of the Courier adds to it's appeal as a secondary device you would throw in your bag or carry to a meeting. I'm not trying to short sell it's usefulness in it's core functionality.
@LCFiner, exactly what I think.
leroy hacker
Member
Tobor said:
Microsoft's existing tablet software such as Journal and Ink Seine already has excellent handwriting recognition. This isn't Molyneux-style hype of a technology that doesn't exist.
The talk about the slowness of writing vs. typing misses the point. If you want to carry around a small device to type notes or a novel you can use a netbook. This device isn't meant to replace a netbook and it isn't designed for tasks whose primary labor is text input. It's designed for all the things that you can't do easily with a keyboard and mouse input, such as sketching, diagramming, or writing equations. Not everyone needs to do those things in their daily work, but for those who do the utility of this device is apparent. What's more, all of those things can be done much better with a stylus than with a finger.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Karma said:
your kidding right?
Theres a big deference between a tablet and "OMG NEW APPLE PRODUCT"
Mike Works
Member
has microsoft released any videos of the thing in action that aren't geared towards female furniture designers?
â Narayan
Member
I want this.
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