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[sphinx]

449€? Wow! In Hamburg Media Markt is selling the Titanfall Bundle for 388€ today.

this was Bremen...

whenever I go to Hamburg and make my rounds in the saturns and media Markts, there's always better deals there compared to here and always a bigger and better selection on software.

by the way everyone, it's not like MS didn't try.

this is a Titanfall figure in the main train station in Berlin:

people knew about it.

which makes matters worse in my opinion

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

I went to dinner on page 6 did I miss anything ?

Somebody said Microsoft had a really good lunch with xbone as well, but the 360's lunch was mediocre - something to do with shortage of fries, or something.

That happened a couple of pages back.

 

[Jack cw]

this is a Titanfall figure in the main train station in Berlin:



people knew about it.

which makes matters worse in my opinion

Well, many of the "target audience" are sitting in the not so healthy parts of the city and to be honest Germany is extremely price sensitive and brand recognition is huge. 500 EUR + 60 EUR Live subscription in a country where Microsoft struggles historically was only going to fail.

 

[psn]

Germany is imo PC & Playstationland. Since the release of the PSX nearly all gamers I know have a PS and a PC for gaming. Even my first girlfriend had a psx. Why would they buy the weaker console for more money?

 

[robo]

thing is last year Microsoft had some really bad press over the NSA spying deal and Outlook interception and we all know the Germans are quite tight about it, what with teh tapping of the chancleors phone.

I think quite a lot of this bad press added to the DRM issue around the xbone launch just turned off quite a large chunk of EU towards Microsoft and to an extent the Xbone just as guilty by association to the overall spying on you issue that never seemed to go away.

 

[DistortionOfReality]

Not as solid as the PS4, but its still a good metric that won't be causing them to sweat... yet.

 

[BBboy20]

Is this good?

Not if you're a stockholder.

people knew about it.

which makes matters worse in my opinion

I'm still baffled they tried making a game that is multiplatform and ran on the Source engine as the tip-of-the-spear for a next-gen console.

 

[Huggers]

So what is the consensus? Is this good, bad or average? Are they doomed or should they do well?

 

[le.phat]

Going by personal tier 2 experience, me and all my friends are still waiting for the official launch and I suspect we aren't the only ones, X1's has not in any way been on shelves where we're located since the tier 1 release, it's been available in one dutch store as an expensive i port option for a few months and only just now in game stores like Game and GameStop for a more reasonable price. Oh and PS4 is not in anyway out of stock here.

Define 'here'. Are you talking about Sweden or Holland ? Because i can attest that the PS4 is hard to find in Holland, with the biggest retail chains like Gamemania and MediaMarkt in Utrecht are sold out, allthough you might see a couple of units in a store like Bart smit.
From what i gather from friends and colleagues, the PS4 is still really hard to track down, with your best being the dutch equivelent of Ebay.

 

[EvB]

So what is the consensus? Is this good, bad or average? Are they doomed or should they do well?

Bad of course, everyone on GAF has a breakdown of sales by country and the forecasted sales of all regions

 

[le.phat]

So what is the consensus? Is this good, bad or average? Are they doomed or should they do well?

Explosive launch led to the belief that it's tracking ahead of 360. The sales average at the moment is that it's tracking slightly under 360's launch period sales, the big difference being that 360 was severly constrained during the launch quartres, whereas the bone is not. Draw your own conclusion.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

The Xbox one is only released in 13 markets whilst the PlayStation 4 is in 72 markets.

This will have a significant impact on the units sold. In the autumn there will be 26 more markets included.

Significantly the PS4's lead in North America is relatively small after 6 months.

Wrong, and not this argument again.................

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

XBox = XBox One hardware + Kinect hardware
PS4 = PS4 hardware

A lot of work done by MS. Congrats. Now all MS need is a Kinect killer application

Dance Central 4 would help

Umm the motion fad died years ago.........................no dance central will help x1.

 

[Septic360]

Germany is imo PC & Playstationland. Since the release of the PSX nearly all gamers I know have a PS and a PC for gaming. Even my first girlfriend had a psx. Why would they buy the weaker console for more money?

Gotta agree with this. I spoke to loads of people at Gamescom last year about which console they were interested in and not a single one said the Xbox One. When I did mention it to them, many looked as if I had shoved a sour lemon in their mouths.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

The contract MS [and presumably everyone else] had with Foxconn predicted Hardware sales cratering in January? Or that MS would not sell through what was being produced?

It is by no means free, cheap or easy to change assembly lines from a hard contract like what a console would have. I don't know what makes you think it would be



Hmm if the PS4 wasn't in play, the XB1 numbers would be phenomenal, the hard LTD numbers are still fantastic but LTD in Q1 is less than ideal imo

I would say XB1's WW LTD is around 4.1M - 4.3M although mort quoted higher

I do believe that while there is probably some unsold stock with retailers [shipped, not sold-through] the real worry is if there is already XB1's not being sold-in to retailers at this point which could very well be the case depending on MS's production capacity for the XB1

Been said 10 times + at least already. No, comparing x1 to last gen launch is a apples and oranges. 360 was supply constrained, and totally diff market now......

 

[Mengy]

So what is the consensus? Is this good, bad or average? Are they doomed or should they do well?

The summary is this: XB1 had a very good launch, but not as good as the PS4's. Sustaining sales for the XB1 however have slowed down considerably, while PS4's have held very strong. If trends continue the PS4 will soon have sold twice as many units as XB1 and the gap will only widen from there. But the trend will most likely close the gap rather than widen it as the XB1 enters more markets (PS4 is in more markets than XB1 currently).

In short, the XB1 is doing okay and MS is saved from doom, although they are most likely a tad disappointed and concerned.

 

[omonimo]

The summary is this: XB1 had a very good launch, but not as good as the PS4's. Sustaining sales for the XB1 however have slowed down considerably, while PS4's have held very strong. If trends continue the PS4 will soon have sold twice as many units as XB1 and the gap will only widen from there. But the trend will most likely close the gap rather than widen it as the XB1 enters more markets (PS4 is in more markets than XB1 currently).

In short, the XB1 is doing okay and MS is saved from doom, although they are most likely a tad disappointed and concerned.

If you say so.

Originally Posted by Huggers

So what is the consensus? Is this good, bad or average? Are they doomed or should they do well?

I don't know what you mean for general consensus, but I'm quite convinced Xone didn't well from the microsoft perspective. If it was so, tons of bundle, promotions, price drop wouldn't be appeared. I don't know how we can deny the evidence. Especially after the last NPD, I don't think MS is that happy. But people are free to believe what they want.

 

[Kosma]

The summary is this: XB1 had a very good launch, but not as good as the PS4's. Sustaining sales for the XB1 however have slowed down considerably, while PS4's have held very strong. If trends continue the PS4 will soon have sold twice as many units as XB1 and the gap will only widen from there. But the trend will most likely close the gap rather than widen it as the XB1 enters more markets (PS4 is in more markets than XB1 currently).

In short, the XB1 is doing okay and MS is saved from doom, although they are most likely a tad disappointed and concerned.

You think launching in Tier 2 will close the gap?

If anything the gap will only get bigger each month.

 

[Feorax]

But the trend will most likely close the gap rather than widen it as the XB1 enters more markets (PS4 is in more markets than XB1 currently).

As stated before, there's nothing about the markets MS has yet to release in to suggest that the gap will close once they are in play. We're talking marginal gains even if the PS4 demand dropped significantly elsewhere to level with XB1.

MS need something else this year on Titanfall's level, otherwise Sony are going to run away with the market until 2015 at the earliest.

 

[qa_engineer]

The summary is this: XB1 had a very good launch, but not as good as the PS4's. Sustaining sales for the XB1 however have slowed down considerably, while PS4's have held very strong. If trends continue the PS4 will soon have sold twice as many units as XB1 and the gap will only widen from there. But the trend will most likely close the gap rather than widen it as the XB1 enters more markets (PS4 is in more markets than XB1 currently).

In short, the XB1 is doing okay and MS is saved from doom, although they are most likely a tad disappointed and concerned.

This has been mentioned before. Xbox is available in its strongest markets. Theses remaining markets are unlikely going to makeup the difference. But what do I know.

 

[EGM1966]

this is my "Saturn" store in Germany

I've never seen a PS4 in store there waiting to be bought,

Why on Earth would they allocate that many TitanFall bundles to Germany? The game is on PC and that's the best version technically. PC is very popular in Germany. The game requires no online fee on PC and I presume has a lower RRP.

I've never understood why MS think with current demographics Germany is a big market for them. The Xbox always has huge library overlap with PC which generally makes it the least appealing console option if you have a PC and want access to exclusive console titles - add that to the relative strength of Playstation and it just seems like wishful thinking to push a lot of stock/marketing towards this region.

 

[Mengy]

You think launching in Tier 2 will close the gap?

If anything the gap will only get bigger each month.

No, it certainly won't close the gap to the point where the XB1 catches up, no way in hell, but I believe it will help MS keep a consistent rate of growth alongside the PS4. Unfortunately for them by that point the PS4 will have considerable market share over the XB1 and it will be near impossible for them to ever catch up to Sony completely.

Maybe I should have elaborated a bit more on that above, heh.

 

[fallen_dawn]

But the trend will most likely close the gap rather than widen it as the XB1 enters more markets (PS4 is in more markets than XB1 currently).

Gosh, I cannot wait for the Xbox One to release in those remaining markets so this argument can stop. Do people really believe that markets which Microsoft themselves deemed as insignificant, markets in which consumers could likely get the product if they wanted one, and markets in which historically, the Xbox brand has not been strong, will suddenly close a gap?

Sure, sales might be boosted by a bit, but if anyone doubts that a current sale ratio will be effected much by the launch in those countries, they are dreaming.

But, I could be wrong. And if so, I'll happily admit it when the time comes. I just don't think it's going to pan out that way, unless something substantially changes between now and then.

EDIT: Just saw your new post, still, if I'm not mistaken, Sony usually leads in those T2 countries regardless? If so, even when MS releases there, within a few months Sony will continue to sell PS4s at a faster rate than XB1s.

 

[Kosma]

No, it certainly won't close the gap to the point where the XB1 catches up, no way in hell, but I believe it will help MS keep a consistent rate of growth alongside the PS4. Unfortunately for them by that point the PS4 will have considerable market share over the XB1 and it will be near impossible for them to ever catch up to Sony completely.

Maybe I should have elaborated a bit more on that above, heh.

Wow I amazed you think Tier 2 will help to sell MS 600k units a month more and keep pace with the PS4.

This is definately possible with huge untapped pro MS markets like Holland, Denmark, Finland and Poland.

 

[Jack cw]

Why on Earth would they allocate that many TitanFall bundles to Germany? The game is on PC and that's the best version technically. PC is very popular in Germany. The game requires no online fee on PC and I presume has a lower RRP.

I've never understood why MS think with current demographics Germany is a big market for them. The Xbox always has huge library overlap with PC which generally makes it the least appealing console option if you have a PC and want access to exclusive console titles - add that to the relative strength of Playstation and it just seems like wishful thinking to push a lot of stock/marketing towards this region.

Those 800k systems had to be splitted somewhere. I still have to laugh when I read the statement of Microsoft Germanys target of 40% market share there. Yes, Titanfall is basically only played on PC here, but mostly bought digital and some big stores are already selling Titanfall for 29 EUR on xbone and have lowered the prices ofthe bundle to under 399 EUR. No surprise if you look at that picture.

 

[omonimo]

Wow I amazed you think Tier 2 will help to sell MS 600k units a month more and keep pace with the PS4.

This is definately possible with huge untapped pro MS markets like Holland, Denmark, Finland and Poland.

Well, to say MS has saved Xone from the doom & it's doing ok, it's more surprising for me.

 

[Kosma]

Lets see the best case scenario for MS regarding T2.

Currently MS is selling 400k a month.

60+% of which is in the US = 240k
40% is T1 = 160k (very positive outlook)

If T2 is 40% of T1 then at best it would be another 64k a month. AT BEST.

This would put MS, at best, at 464k a month.

 

[DieH@rd]

MS exec is implying that there is a strong chance that manufacturing of new Xbone consoles could slow down/stop in their financial Q4 [April1-June30] because market is already oversaturated with their consoles:

UPDATE: The topic of Microsoft's Xbox business was barely raised during its investor call, with no analysts asking about it at all. Some of CFO Amy Hood's statements did imply, however, that there is more supply than demand for its Xbox consoles.

"We do expect to work through some inventory in Q4," said Hood, referring in this case to the period between April 1 - June 30, 2014. She also referred to "channel inventory drawdown for Xbox consoles," implying that manufacturing of Xbox consoles will slow or stop, to allow retailers time to work through existing inventory.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._revenues__but_its_cost_cuts_into_profits.php


Implications of this statement is:
- retailers are already oversaturated, making us knowing how much they really sold to consumers really impossible [1 million unsold consoles?]
- GAF should not expect large shipments in next next quarterly report

 

[mrklaw]

The summary is this: XB1 had a very good launch, but not as good as the PS4's. Sustaining sales for the XB1 however have slowed down considerably, while PS4's have held very strong. If trends continue the PS4 will soon have sold twice as many units as XB1 and the gap will only widen from there. But the trend will most likely close the gap rather than widen it as the XB1 enters more markets (PS4 is in more markets than XB1 currently).

In short, the XB1 is doing okay and MS is saved from doom, although they are most likely a tad disappointed and concerned.

The XB1 had a strong launch but has fallen away strongly, now tracking below 360 which was supply constrained. That is bad.

I don't see the additional markets closing the gap appreciably - depends how much PS4 demand softens, but those tier 2 markets aren't going to deliver a ton of units

 

[omonimo]

MS exec is implying that there is a strong chance that manufacturing of new Xbone consoles could slow down/stop in their financial Q4 [April1-June30] because market is already oversaturated with their consoles:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._revenues__but_its_cost_cuts_into_profits.php


Implications of this statement is:
- retailers are already oversaturated, making us knowing how much they really sold to consumers really impossible [1 million unsold consoles?]
- GAF should not expect large shipments in next few NPDs and next quarterly reports

Ugh

 

[Jack cw]

Implications of this statement is:
- retailers are already oversaturated, making us knowing how much they really sold to consumers really impossible [1 million unsold consoles?]
- GAF should not expect large shipments in next few NPDs and next quarterly reports

I guess that is what was to be expected after all those reports and stock situtation. 1 million unsold systems sound pretty bad splitted over 13 countries. With no big software title on the horizon and reduced shipments, the gap might reach a 3:1 ration worldwide in a few months.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

MS exec is implying that there is a strong chance that manufacturing of new Xbone consoles could slow down/stop in their financial Q4 [April1-June30] because market is already oversaturated with their consoles:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._revenues__but_its_cost_cuts_into_profits.php


Implications of this statement is:
- retailers are already oversaturated, making us knowing how much they really sold to consumers really impossible [1 million unsold consoles?]
- GAF should not expect large shipments in next few NPDs and next quarterly reports

This.. uh.. this is new news and probably deserves a new thread.

 

[Tsundere]

MS exec is implying that there is a strong chance that manufacturing of new Xbone consoles could slow down/stop in their financial Q4 [April1-June30] because market is already oversaturated with their consoles:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._revenues__but_its_cost_cuts_into_profits.php


Implications of this statement is:
- retailers are already oversaturated, making us knowing how much they really sold to consumers really impossible [1 million unsold consoles?]
- GAF should not expect large shipments in next next quarterly report

Demand is low, supply is plentiful. Prices will go down forcibly. And if demand doesn't rise significantly due to price reductions they're in trouble.

 

[mrklaw]

thats bad if it is happening quite so quickly. If they only had the stock in retailers to deal with, that could probably be worked through by slowing production a little. But stopping/pausing to work through inventory does suggest that maybe they still have stocks in warehouses that haven't been shipped to retailers (As swiftdeath suggested).

That would make sense if MS couldn't ramp down production so quickly after launch (and wouldn't have expected such a drop off in demand). sold in figures for this quarter are very low Vs estimated 1m production at launch. They could be sitting on a pretty big pile somewhere.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Think it's telling with some who don't own or have zero intention of owning the system have the loudest voice

 

[Tsundere]

Think it's telling with some who don't own or have zero intention of owning the system have the loudest voice

Telling what? Please elaborate.

I'll bite at $250 ish.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Maybe Microsoft should do something to convince those otherwise? Please don't imply that all critics are fundamentally against Microsoft, maybe they just find the current product unappealing.

I never said all did I ? I said "some"

 

[Jack cw]

Think it's telling with some who don't own or have zero intention of owning the system have the loudest voice

Money is the loudest voice and you are right. Customers arent interested in xbone and that is only Microsofts fault.

 

[EGM1966]

Those 800k systems had to be splitted somewhere. I still have to laugh when I read the statement of Microsoft Germanys target of 40% market share there. Yes, Titanfall is basically only played on PC here, but mostly bought digital and some big stores are already selling Titanfall for 29 EUR on xbone and have lowered the prices ofthe bundle to under 399 EUR. No surprise if you look at that picture.

True - it's either send it out regardless or leave it sitting in a warehouse somewhere. It's just so painfully obvious that making a huge push for TitanFall on XB1 in Germany was unlikely to have a great result. Still least you guys got a nice big TitanFall figure in Berlin!

 

[Jack cw]

Still least you guys got a nice big TitanFall figure in Berlin!

Which is absolutely amazing, to be honest. Not everything Microsft does is bad apparently

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Please, I've seen too many of those posts. Don't get me wrong, there's always *some* people like that, but your post came off as a vague, general accusation.

I get your intention, but it's best to focus on specific statements or "It's doomed" posts. Personally I don't feel myself qualified to make a statement on those sales anyway.

You get where I'm coming from, that's good. I'll say no more.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Think it's telling with some who don't own or have zero intention of owning the system have the loudest voice

Point those people out and I'll make sure they get told off.

 

[DerZuhälter]

Most Germans would avoid XB1 no matter if there's price parity with PS4 or a price even below 399€. People over here are still very skepticle about Kinect and the Prism/NSA scandal. A lot of tech-savy guys are in these regards overly paranoid I'd say, the other tech savy guys say the hardware is inferior.

MS needs to market to "other" audiences here, with PC still King over here and the above stated issues it's an uphill battle. Especially since brand loyalties here are insane. You don't want to be dropped in an unmoderated german Intel vs AMD thread.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Point those people out and I'll make sure they get told off.

You are not going to be rude are you ?

 

[Linkified]

Most Germans would avoid XB1 no matter if there's price parity with PS4 or a price even below 399€. People over here are still very skepticle about Kinect and the Prism/NSA scandal. A lot of tech-savy guys are in these regards overly paranoid I'd say, the other tech savy guys say the hardware is inferior.

MS needs to market to "other" audiences here, with PC still King over here and the above stated issues it's an uphill battle. Especially since brand loyalties here are insane. You don't want to be dropped in an unmoderated german Intel vs AMD thread.

In all honesty removing Kinect from the bundle with a cheaper RRP would be blessing for all concerned: retailers, gamers, developers and Microsoft.

 

[Feorax]

In all honesty removing Kinect from the bundle with a cheaper RRP would be blessing for all concerned: retailers, gamers, developers and Microsoft.

How much does the RRP have to drop at this point though? There were some big discounts around the release of Titanfall, and it barely did anything.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

X1 was as cheap or cheaper then ps4 most of march, still lost npd, MS issues go further then price.

 

[User Tron]

If Amazon.de is any indication of how things are going in Germany, they are in deep trouble. Only 1 Xbox One game in the top 100 for days now. For comparison Wii U has 3 titles. Both Zelda and Mario premium packs are ranking above the Titanfall pack.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

X1 was as cheap or cheaper then ps4 most of march, still lost npd, MS issues go further then price.

Kinect ?

The name...Xbox One....it's a shit name imo

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

Kinect ?

The name...Xbox One....it's a shit name imo

YEah kinect is a big issue, how MS didn't see the motion gimmick was faded is beyond me.