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[travisbickle]

So much anger, I would hate to feel like this over a games console.

Compared to the unabashed devotion you offer the Xbox?

 

[Freaky]

We are really sorry that we lost the the worth of your money by our actions. Please get your money back to us and we promise you that we will stop this shitty PR, Maybe.

 

[Pseudo judo]

Jesus, it wasn't just about a games console.

MS offered a product that many consumers didn't want at a price they weren't willing to pay. It happens all the time. The vitriol, hurt feelings and animosity about it is pretty much limited to enthusiast gamers and to anyone who lives outside the bubble and gets to peer inside it must look like a mental condition.

 

[FINALBOSS]

So much anger, I would hate to feel like this over a games console.

Your posts always sound so snarky. Very off-putting.

With that said, heaven forbid people are excited about something.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

So much anger, I would hate to feel like this over a games console.

Then you've come to the wrong place, mate.

Heaven forbid that people who have invested thousands of dollars into their hobby and supported a multibillion dollar industry actually give a damn enough to try and defend it when it could be put into jeopardy.

 

[jet1911]

Same here my mother is in her 70's and her and a friend were telling all of us at a family function not to get the new xbox. They saw it on the AOL homepage, never heard about the reversal, so I didn't feel like it was my job to inform them either. MS screwed up, old people and the uninformed still have the negative first impression.

My son and his middle school friends have all went PS4. So MS is losing around ten right there by Christmas and they're not the only group of gaming kids at the school that are changing. Most of the kids use Gamefly or redbox to rent games and want nothing to do xbox even though they HAVE heard about the reversal.

They like the more powerful hardware and rave about how awesome PSN+ is going to be.

The next few months should be interesting.

Edit: and yes they have seen Titanfall.

This is pretty good.

 

[Jabba]

MS offered a product that many consumers didn't want at a price they weren't willing to pay. It happens all the time. The vitriol, hurt feelings and animosity about it is pretty much limited to enthusiast gamers and to anyone who lives outside the bubble and gets to peer inside it must look like a mental condition.

I see you don't get it either.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Heaven forbid that people who have invested thousands of dollars into their hobby and supported a multibillion dollar industry actually give a damn enough to try and defend it when it could be put into jeopardy.

MS have very little sway and far from market leaders, they came 3rd place this gen and have little to no chance of catching up next-gen with a 50% weaker more expensive console. I wouldn't worry about their pre-180's as industry-changing "jeopardy".

 

[Finalizer]

In gaming you can't be ahead of the curve you gotta strike just at the right time when everything comes in place. Nintendo Virtual Boy was theoretically a good idea but the tech wasn't quite there and we just weren't ready, with Oculus gamers are ready. Similarly MS thought 5-6 years ahead with XBO when all we really want is a lazer focused gaming system that fully supports discs.

I really don't get this view point. Restrictive DRM isn't "ahead of the curve," and the subsequent backlash coming off of it was precisely because MS failed to show any real benefit to balance it out. I can already avoid using discs by buying games digitally, and the DRM in itself brought nothing else of significant benefit that MS could readily demonstrate. I wasn't going to buy a console based on vague ideas and bullshit, and looking at the 180s, neither were consumers in general. MS weren't years ahead on anything; they couldn't even show where they were headed to begin with.

 

[Pseudo judo]

Then you've come to the wrong place, mate.

Heaven forbid that people who have invested thousands of dollars into their hobby and supported a multibillion dollar industry actually give a damn enough to try and defend it when it could be put into jeopardy.

This sustainable anger would be more understandable if there were limited choices in regards to hardware but between PC, PS4 and WiiU there are very few games that MS has as exclusive that other gamers can't play. Forgiveness isn't really expected but after 3 months I'd have hoped things have cooled off to the point where a sensible discussion is possible about digital games, DRM, MS, Sony and where the industry maybe headed without it quickly devolving. We're not even close to that yet.

 

[Pseudo judo]

I see you don't get it either.

True

 

[lostsouldier]

This sustainable anger would be more understandable if there were limited choices in regards to hardware but between PC, PS4 and WiiU there are very few games that MS has as exclusive that other gamers can't play. Forgiveness isn't really expected but after 3 months I'd have hoped things have cooled off to the point where a sensible discussion is possible about digital games, DRM, MS, Sony and where the industry maybe headed without it quickly devolving. We're not even close to that yet.

It only seems that way because Gaf is Gaf. Most people I know are getting the Xbox One and could care less about the DRM fiasco as long as it has Fifa and CoD.

Hell, a couple days ago at the park a couple kids who were playing Basketball on the court next to me were talking about the new Kinect, and *gulp*, ACTUALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT.

NeoGaf isnt any kind of metric for what is going on in the real world. And quite honestly, neither are pre-order numbers. I dont actually know anybody that pre-orders games or consoles outside of a small minority of core gamers. My only friends that did pre-order a ps4 or one did it in order to try and flip it for twice the cost so they could nab one for themselves for free.

The one statistic that you dont see, is pre-orders where an actual downpayment was placed. Any jackass with a creditcard can pre order from places like Amazon without putting a cent down. I know because thats exactly what I did. Will I buy them? No, actually. There really isnt anything Ive seen that demands my wallet. I just pre-ordered because it was free and I could.

The majority of people buying games dont go on Gaf, dont read IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, Polygon, Edge, etc etc and simply either have no idea or dont care. The crazy fanboy hysteria is really just a very vocal minority. I have a feeling the Xbox One will come out of Christmas looking much better than anticipated.

*Oh look, an Xbox One commercial during NFL Highlights on ESPN just aired as I finished this..

 

[xinfamousxi]

How many people online talk about not buying COD because its a rehash yet it still sells millions and millions of copies.

 

[graywolf323]

It only seems that way because Gaf is Gaf. Most people I know are getting the Xbox One and could care less about the DRM fiasco as long as it has Fifa and CoD.

Hell, a couple days ago at the park a couple kids who were playing Basketball on the court next to me were talking about the new Kinect, and *gulp*, ACTUALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT.

NeoGaf isnt any kind of metric for what is going on in the real world. And quite honestly, neither are pre-order numbers. I dont actually know anybody that pre-orders games or consoles outside of a small minority of core gamers. My only friends that did pre-order a ps4 or one did it in order to try and flip it for twice the cost so they could nab one for themselves for free.

The one statistic that you dont see, is pre-orders where an actual downpayment was placed. Any jackass with a creditcard can pre order from places like Amazon without putting a cent down. I know because thats exactly what I did. Will I buy them? No, actually. There really isnt anything Ive seen that demands my wallet. I just pre-ordered because it was free and I could.

The majority of people buying games dont go on Gaf, dont read IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, Polygon, Edge, etc etc and simply either have no idea or dont care. The crazy fanboy hysteria is really just a very vocal minority. I have a feeling the Xbox One will come out of Christmas looking much better than anticipated.

*Oh look, an Xbox One commercial during NFL Highlights on ESPN just aired as I finished this..

we have stats from many GameStops where PS4 is far outselling the Xbox One when it comes to preorders and they do require money down, $100 IIRC

just because your small circle of friends have remained loyal to Microsoft doesn't mean all the other evidence is wrong (despite you seemingly wishing it was based on this and other posts)

 

[Brad Grenz]

No, it has "over 100 million licenses sold to OEMs", which end up on PCs and laptops most people don't want. Also, I don't doubt a large number of Win 8 users have installed start menu replacements, negating the purpose of Metro in the first place.

Windows 8 licenses will work with Windows 7. Lots of businesses buy 8 in bulk, but install 7 on their machines. When my Dad got a new laptop I downgraded him from 8 to 7 because 8 was so confusing for him.

 

[Zombie James]

It only seems that way because Gaf is Gaf. Most people I know are getting the Xbox One and could care less about the DRM fiasco as long as it has Fifa and CoD.

Hell, a couple days ago at the park a couple kids who were playing Basketball on the court next to me were talking about the new Kinect, and *gulp*, ACTUALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT.

NeoGaf isnt any kind of metric for what is going on in the real world. And quite honestly, neither are pre-order numbers. I dont actually know anybody that pre-orders games or consoles outside of a small minority of core gamers. My only friends that did pre-order a ps4 or one did it in order to try and flip it for twice the cost so they could nab one for themselves for free.

The one statistic that you dont see, is pre-orders where an actual downpayment was placed. Any jackass with a creditcard can pre order from places like Amazon without putting a cent down. I know because thats exactly what I did. Will I buy them? No, actually. There really isnt anything Ive seen that demands my wallet. I just pre-ordered because it was free and I could.

The majority of people buying games dont go on Gaf, dont read IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, Polygon, Edge, etc etc and simply either have no idea or dont care. The crazy fanboy hysteria is really just a very vocal minority. I have a feeling the Xbox One will come out of Christmas looking much better than anticipated.

*Oh look, an Xbox One commercial during NFL Highlights on ESPN just aired as I finished this..

So, we shouldn't pay attention to pre-order numbers because they don't reflect what goes on in the real world, but we should pay attention to what your friends say.

 

[bigswords]

MS is not sorry until it can give a good explanation why SEA countries do not get the system at the end of 2013 or at least early 2014.

 

[Bigmac1910]

Sorry, but I don't trust him at all anymore after so much bullshit, and probably never will again. They almost need a new community manager.

 

[eastx]

MS is not sorry until it can give a good explanation why SEA countries do not get the system at the end of 2013 or at least early 2014.

Obviously they can't produce enough units to meet demand for every single country at launch, and so they're allocating launch units to the 13 largest markets. It's unfortunate but better than chronic shortages in the key markets.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

as someone who works in retail at a games store, not the bad one...i hope. People still think the xbox needs to be online, and you can't used games. it's the biggest thing I hear from anyone talking about next gen. I inform them all that microsoft has gone back on those things, but the customers say they still aren't going to buy one because ms tried to "screw" them. It's gonna take a few games to get this turned around, a few steller games

 

[Jindrax]

Doesn't matter, the thing will still sell like hotcakes because most of the people who get these don't read online, didn't watch the release,don't really care. Most people are like yeah I got an xbobx360 so I'll get one of these too. 100 bucks more expensive yeah so... It's only like the hardcore online people who actually care and pay attention who might switch over. But yeah, most kids, soccor moms and casuals will just get one regardless.

 

[LaNaranja]

we have stats from many GameStops where PS4 is far outselling the Xbox One when it comes to preorders and they do require money down, $100 IIRC

just because your small circle of friends have remained loyal to Microsoft doesn't mean all the other evidence is wrong (despite you seemingly wishing it was based on this and other posts)

It is in fact $100 at GameStop. However, even then that sale is not set in stone. I preordered after E3 and a while later cancelled it and just used the store credit on other stuff.

 

[luxsol]

People keep saying this, but there's no reason it has to be true. Movies continue to be sold in physical format; music continues to be sold in physical format. And you don't have to give up your physical property rights to do this.

Why is all of a sudden gaming has to be the one to give it up?

Of course, the answer is we don't and you've been sold a false flag of PR nonsense about the necessity of the action. Yes, gaming - like movies and music - are going to move to increase their digital presence and perhaps even prioritize it. Sony and Microsoft are doing that even with the systems they currently have in place for PS4 and XBO.

But there is no reason - literally, zero reasons - why that has to come with giving up physical property rights. When this digital age comes on consoles, it'll be alongside those physical discs and the rights that come with it, not at the exclusion of them.

Just offer enough incentives and the consumer will accept anything.

Just look at all the people willing to pay for XBLive and, now, PSN. They throw away their consumer rights, for "free" things, sales, ease of use, and other bonuses.

Aren't most major PC games stuck behind DRM and needing to register online (like Steam)? Barring those share/freeware games, of course.

The next generation after might not even come with a disc drive anymore. Take away that ease of purchasing (sure, all us net nerds don't care if someone isn't up to date, so sux 4 dem non-line-gamers-who-shouldn't-even-be-gaming-if-they-can't-afford-internet) or making the drive optional ($100 extra), and you suddenly make giving into online tied DRM games more palpable for the consumer. Make the disc-less online download $10 less and how many more people are willing to give up their rights?
So since our consoles are closed systems, it's much easier for the console maker to make everyone play along. You can't do that with music, books, or movies, and people EXPECT those to work everywhere if you physically bought it.

Consumers have proven that they'll happily throw their rights away if they get something in return, even if it's just for the belief it's better that way.

 

[spookyfish]

as someone who works in retail at a games store, not the bad one...i hope. People still think the xbox needs to be online, and you can't used games. it's the biggest thing I hear from anyone talking about next gen. I inform them all that microsoft has gone back on those things, but the customers say they still aren't going to buy one because ms tried to "screw" them. It's gonna take a few games to get this turned around, a few steller games

They can come out with as many "stellar games" as they want. Until they offer a Kinect-less SKU, I'm out.

 

[Ushae]

Same here my mother is in her 70's and her and a friend were telling all of us at a family function not to get the new xbox. They saw it on the AOL homepage, never heard about the reversal, so I didn't feel like it was my job to inform them either. MS screwed up, old people and the uninformed still have the negative first impression.

My son and his middle school friends have all went PS4. So MS is losing around ten right there by Christmas and they're not the only group of gaming kids at the school that are changing. Most of the kids use Gamefly or redbox to rent games and want nothing to do xbox even though they HAVE heard about the reversal.

They like the more powerful hardware and rave about how awesome PSN+ is going to be.

The next few months should be interesting.

Edit: and yes they have seen Titanfall.

Total opposite here. My brother, 3 of my best friends, brother-in-law and cousin have all (separately) decided to go with the Xbox One (some eventually) as they prefer the controller and are used to the Xbox brand.

 

[Row]

I fucking love the pre-launch months so much if for nothing else all the shitty and convoluted anecdotal stories

 

[Row]

Total opposite here. My brother, 3 of my best friends, brother-in-law and cousin have all (separately) decided to go with the Xbox One (some eventually) as they prefer the controller and are used to the Xbox brand.

Total opposite is going from a PS3 owner to a XB1 owner, not from a 360 owner to a XB1 owner. It goes without saying pretty much every XB1 owner will had owned a 360 previously, but how many is MS going to lose and what are the chances they attract all new people given the higher cost of the console (if nothing else)?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Total opposite here. My brother, 3 of my best friends, brother-in-law and cousin have all (separately) decided to go with the Xbox One (some eventually) as they prefer the controller and are used to the Xbox brand.

Of my gaming friend landscape we all decided on X360 last gen as our MP console of choice because of Gears, Halo and Call of Duty. Total there is about 7 of us and were all married at this point. Of the 7 only me and my brother had a PS3 as well and the others would occasionally borrow ours for the big IP's.

It's a complete reversal now. All of us are going PS4 with me being the only one to get a XBONE. These are guys that all stood in line for Halo 2 outside of EB Games for hours. The switch comes down to 4 big reasons:

- PS4 alleged superior power
- Price
- No Xbone title that has the same pull as 360 showed with Gears.
- None of us liked Halo 4 and it soured most of them on the next IP. They all want Destiny now and feel like PS4 is being prominently featured the most.

And Gears of War Judgement kind of ruined that franchise for a lot of us as well.

I can't emphasize how crazy it is to me that they are going with Sony. They weren't even big PS2 fans and the Xbox was always their console of choice. It was them that got me to get a OG XBOX with Fable and Halo 1. There is a real feeling among all of them that the company that made the Xbox and 360 their favorite consoles is gone and that the developer that made them special(Bungie) will never be duplicated.

 

[not_so_special]

It only seems that way because Gaf is Gaf. Most people I know are getting the Xbox One and could care less about the DRM fiasco as long as it has Fifa and CoD.

Hell, a couple days ago at the park a couple kids who were playing Basketball on the court next to me were talking about the new Kinect, and *gulp*, ACTUALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT.

NeoGaf isnt any kind of metric for what is going on in the real world. And quite honestly, neither are pre-order numbers. I dont actually know anybody that pre-orders games or consoles outside of a small minority of core gamers. My only friends that did pre-order a ps4 or one did it in order to try and flip it for twice the cost so they could nab one for themselves for free.

The one statistic that you dont see, is pre-orders where an actual downpayment was placed. Any jackass with a creditcard can pre order from places like Amazon without putting a cent down. I know because thats exactly what I did. Will I buy them? No, actually. There really isnt anything Ive seen that demands my wallet. I just pre-ordered because it was free and I could.

The majority of people buying games dont go on Gaf, dont read IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, Polygon, Edge, etc etc and simply either have no idea or dont care. The crazy fanboy hysteria is really just a very vocal minority. I have a feeling the Xbox One will come out of Christmas looking much better than anticipated.

*Oh look, an Xbox One commercial during NFL Highlights on ESPN just aired as I finished this..

youwill be surprised buddy,like sony fanboys before the ps3 launch,its was the same thing,bu bu ps2 its the best selling console ever how people can buy 360?

 

[Ushae]

Total opposite is going from a PS3 owner to a XB1 owner, not from a 360 owner to a XB1 owner. It goes without saying pretty much every XB1 owner will had owned a 360 previously, but how many is MS going to lose and what are the chances they attract all new people given the higher cost of the console (if nothing else)?

My reply was in response to the other guys post dude, context.ie. opposite of his experience. I agree that MS will lost a good chunk of it's customers, in no small part to their PR/messaging.

Of my gaming friend landscape we all decided on X360 last gen as our MP console of choice because of Gears, Halo and Call of Duty. Total there is about 7 of us and were all married at this point. Of the 7 only me and my brother had a PS3 as well and the others would occasionally borrow ours for the big IP's.

It's a complete reversal now. All of us are going PS4 with me being the only one to get a XBONE. These are guys that all stood in line for Halo 2 outside of EB Games for hours. The switch comes down to 4 big reasons:

- PS4 alleged superior power
- Price
- No Xbone title that has the same pull as 360 showed with Gears.
- None of us liked Halo 4 and it soured most of them on the next IP. They all want Destiny now and feel like PS4 is being prominently featured the most.

And Gears of War Judgement kind of ruined that franchise for a lot of us as well.

I can't emphasize how crazy it is to me that they are going with Sony. They weren't even big PS2 fans and the Xbox was always their console of choice. It was them that got me to get a OG XBOX with Fable and Halo 1. There is a real feeling among all of them that the company that made the Xbox and 360 their favorite consoles is gone and that the developer that made them special(Bungie) will never be duplicated.

This a great post, software and price is what will ultimately sell the console. Can MS pull that off in the coming years? No idea. They claim to have invested more money than ever in first party, but most gamers want genuine in house production not money hat development. I guess we'll see.

 

[Sloane_Ranger]

I understand why the apologies now - after the mishandled launch. But honestly they were losing me mid-stream as a customer with my 360. The forced changes to the console I decided to purchase with forced advertising, and UI changes alone began my slide away from their service a long time ago. If my group of MP friends had not been so invested in their ecosystem, I would have left to go back to Sony a long time ago. The launch did it for me + the knowledge that they can and will change the service to suit their desires eliminates my trust for them.

Plus, PS4 just looks damn good.

 

[Kyleoty]

Aww how sweet, MS is doing an apology tour. Still can't have my money... Yet.

So true!
I know I will have an Xbone but not sure when. I didn't get my first PS3 after there SLAP in the face for over 3 years, and it was a barter with a friend for some work on his barn.

At least MS isn't waiting an entire year after the competitors launch and only being minimally stronger with crappy online play like the PS3 sucker punch. I've always had all systems and PS did one heck of a job this go around to earn my trust again. I don't think MS will have to do as much but will have to work, non the less, to get me and a few hundred thousand gamers back.

 

[dose]

As someone else points out, MS don't actually say they're apologising, it's the journalist who refers to it as an apology tour. Either way, too little, too late.

 

[OrbitScant]

Drm isn't progress. If anything it's a regression to a period when industry barons could treat consumers like dirt and get away with it. Removal of basic consumer rights is never a good thing. It takes you back to a feudalist era that is good for shareholders only.

 

[3rdamention]

It only seems that way because Gaf is Gaf. Most people I know are getting the Xbox One and could care less about the DRM fiasco as long as it has Fifa and CoD.

Hell, a couple days ago at the park a couple kids who were playing Basketball on the court next to me were talking about the new Kinect, and *gulp*, ACTUALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT.

NeoGaf isnt any kind of metric for what is going on in the real world. And quite honestly, neither are pre-order numbers. I dont actually know anybody that pre-orders games or consoles outside of a small minority of core gamers. My only friends that did pre-order a ps4 or one did it in order to try and flip it for twice the cost so they could nab one for themselves for free.

The one statistic that you dont see, is pre-orders where an actual downpayment was placed. Any jackass with a creditcard can pre order from places like Amazon without putting a cent down. I know because thats exactly what I did. Will I buy them? No, actually. There really isnt anything Ive seen that demands my wallet. I just pre-ordered because it was free and I could.

The majority of people buying games dont go on Gaf, dont read IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, Polygon, Edge, etc etc and simply either have no idea or dont care. The crazy fanboy hysteria is really just a very vocal minority. I have a feeling the Xbox One will come out of Christmas looking much better than anticipated.

*Oh look, an Xbox One commercial during NFL Highlights on ESPN just aired as I finished this..

Thanks, I didn't know your friends and the kids at the park were specifically going to decide next gen. I was caught up on some of the preorder numbers/rumors that were coming from employees of the big retailers. Thanks for the heads up.



Its going to be exciting to see what the numbers really are at launch for both systems. You could have one system selling more than the other just because it has more units available. I think that is going to be more important than anything, how many Xbox Ones and PS4s will be available at launch, whether they are allocated to preorders or on store shelves.

 

[Duster]

MS offered a product that many consumers didn't want at a price they weren't willing to pay. It happens all the time. The vitriol, hurt feelings and animosity about it is pretty much limited to enthusiast gamers and to anyone who lives outside the bubble and gets to peer inside it must look like a mental condition.

Actually people outside the gaming bubble do care about consumer rights, that's why there are many websites, newspaper articles and TV shows dedicated to the subject.
More importantly there will soon be new laws in the UK that tighten up our rights when it comes to things like digital products and online services.