• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

#Miiquality | Bringing same-sex relationships to Nintendo's Tomodachi series

There are already plenty of ways to take advantage of the Mii customization tools to make fun of people, though.
It still would not be real though, its why people rather this be implemented instead of picking female gender and making it look exactly like whatever guy you want.

Its the same reason why tanning to make some darkskin in animal crossing is unacceptable as well.
 

Tyeforce

Member
Thank you everyone!! I'm really glad so many people are supportive of this movement! Please continue to help spreading the word however you can!

I still think it's bullshit that the mere existence of a gay individual in a video game would affect the ESRB rating. Perhaps you could add this to your campaign, Tye. Expand it beyond the realm of this singular title.
I'd like to focus on Tomodachi Life first, but if Miiquality gets big, I'd definitely like to shift the focus to equality in video games in general. Kind of like how Operation Rainfall focused on Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower, but once the games were localized they kind of became a voice for localizing games in general.
 
Sexuality is grouped as "Sexual Themes" according to the ESRB guidelines, which would AT MINIMUM bump an E rating to an E10, depending on the "severity" of the references to sexuality. More often, though, it would bump the game to a T rating.

I see that Wikipedia says that identification of sexuality triggers the "Sexual content" category which bumps a game up to Teen, but they cite this page from the ESRB which doesn't appear to support that.

The "Sexual themes" category appears to be triggered by a reference to sexuality but I don't see how they could differentiate that with a character depicted in a heterosexual relationship. It'd be nice if a journalist went to the ESRB and asked them directly.
 

Meohsix

Member
After 5 animal crossing games, Nintendo still won't let you be a black person. I highly doubt they'll patch in same sex couples for this game.
But best of luck to you in your quest.
 

zhorkat

Member
It still would not be real though, its why people rather this be implemented instead of picking female gender and making it look exactly like whatever guy you want.

Its the same reason why tanning to make some darkskin in animal crossing is unacceptable as well.

Oh, I get why actual support should be included. My post was just saying that the potential for bullying shouldn't deter Nintendo from adding support because the game and system can already be used to bully people.
 

Terrell

Member
I see that Wikipedia says that identification of sexuality triggers the "Sexual content" category which bumps a game up to Teen, but they cite this page from the ESRB which doesn't appear to support that.

The "Sexual themes" category appears to be triggered by a reference to sexuality but I don't see how they could differentiate that with a character depicted in a heterosexual relationship. It'd be nice if a journalist went to the ESRB and asked them directly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity

This should help you understand how.
 

DVCY201

Member
Yea, this is great. I'd really like to see more of these options employed in games universally. Just getting more diversity in is great, and more ethnicity too.
 

Jamix012

Member
I'm absolutely down for this, but change the thread title. I thought it was just about Tomodachi life's Mii quality or a trailer or something.
 
Equal/straight options would be awesome. But I'll only be pushing hard for this as a sequel. Still disappointed. But not offended enough. I think reality is a bigger problem.
 
I'm absolutely down for this, but change the thread title. I thought it was just about Tomodachi life's Mii quality or a trailer or something.
Yeah, maybe a mention of supporting same-sex relationships in the thread title will help grab more attention.
 

Tagg9

Member
I was under the impression that Japan is fairly liberal nowadays (surely they have to be with the amount of yuri/yaoi anime)? Perhaps it's more related to Nintendo wanting to protect their family-friendly image?
 
I was under the impression that Japan is fairly liberal nowadays (surely they have to be with the amount of yuri/yaoi anime)? Perhaps it's more related to Nintendo wanting to protect their family-friendly image?
"Family Friendly" is more apt.

It's certainly not friendly to me and a lot of other people.
 
I'm absolutely down for this, but change the thread title. I thought it was just about Tomodachi life's Mii quality or a trailer or something.
Me, too. I was thinking it'd be someone's crazy-obsessed analysis of how much better Miis look in this game compared to any other or something.

Anyway, I support this as well, but I'm not actually interested in the game. Considering this is Nintendo, I don't expect much; but I do want them to feel the fire beneath their feet this movement [hopefully] causes.
 

Terrell

Member
Equal/straight options would be awesome. But I'll only be pushing hard for this as a sequel. Still disappointed. But not offended enough. I think reality is a bigger problem.
Entertainment informs reality, usually long before the opposite is true, because it's faster to move.
 

Terrell

Member
Believe me I'm on your side, I just don't see how they could justify it if confronted directly.
You'd be surprised. Even socially-liberal people who accept homosexuality as "equal" still maintain heteronormative attitudes, because people don't seem to truly understand what equality actually means.

So you would have people saying things like "it's not as common so it's not the norm" or "it's equal, but not something I want my kids to be informed about from a video game", like it's the game's fault that they consider discussing gay people to be awkward by considering it in purely sexual terms and thus delayed informing their children.

So while it's a nice idea to think people couldn't find a way to hold onto these things, the fact that institutional sexism still exists should inform you of how just shining a light on it won't kill it dead.
 

maxcriden

Member
Tyeforce, your video was amazing, and truly touching! The amount of effort you put into it is clear and it's looks extremely professionally done. Great nod to Iwata, too!

ETA: I wonder if Jason Schreier might be someone to contact at Kotaku about doing an article on your movement.
 

Roto13

Member
Sexuality is grouped as "Sexual Themes" according to the ESRB guidelines, which would AT MINIMUM bump an E rating to an E10, depending on the "severity" of the references to sexuality. More often, though, it would bump the game to a T rating.

The straight Miis get pregnant. If anything, same-sex relationships would reference sexuality less.
 
Someone who has lived in Japan wrote a really good post about this in the Tomodachi thread.
Oh wow, that's an awesome post. I'm going to add it here for posterity:
Interesting reading in the thread about the whole gay Mii marriage thing and I'm glad it's mostly been a reasonable discussion so far on both sides. Gonna ramble here, so excuse length in advance (har) and if you think this is derailing the thread from talking about the game, well, this seems to be a major talking point about the game and until more information comes from Nintendo all the other topics seem to be covered as well.

I think we're at a watershed point now where Nintendo being a family-friendly company doesn't matter, and the fact that kids might be playing doesn't matter, to the argument of whether or not to include Miis of the same gender dating in a game. Those being reasons to keep gay content out of things are from a time when the concept of being gay was diametrically opposed to the concept of family life. It's 2014. There are gay couples and gay families everywhere in the two main markets we're talking about here, North America and Europe, and despite it being an uncomfortable line of thought for some people, children are not inherently straight, nor a separate species from the gay adults in our societies. Some kids are or will be gay. They have a right to see media that tells them they are not freaks and that what they feel is a part of the broader human experience as well as what they see all the time with hetero couples.

The more games come out that let you simulate your life, or let you play as a character with enough agency given to you in the area of relationships that many people will treat them as an avatar of themselves and want to make the same decisions they themselves would (e.g. Mass Effect), the less of a niche discussion this becomes. As an earlier poster said, my existence as a gay person and my desire to reflect my real life (my male partner) in a game like this is not social commentary or being PC or being political. It's my life. Don't put "your life" on the box if there's gonna be a honking great implied asterisk that says your life in some corporate-conservative filtered version of what that means.

Some people have asked for perspective on what Japanese people think about all this. I lived in Japan for some years and had a reasonably fulfilling gay life there. I would say that Japan is a place where a (what one might call) conservative view on society and the role of the family prevails. Your role in Japanese society is to get married and have children. Not fulfilling this role, be it because you're a woman who wants a career, a gay person, or a person of any gender who isn't interested in making that life for yourself, positions you as something of an outsider. In that sense gay people are not singled out as a destructive force against society in the same way (some) conservative demagogues do in the west. You don't get that "think of the children" attitude.

However, the vast majority of gay people keep their sexuality to themselves. Being out at the office is almost unheard of. It may sound horrible but I don't think most gay people necessarily feel oppressed by this on a day to day basis. Japan is not a country shaped by a history of organised religion, and the associated repression of sex and sexuality in all its forms, in the same way many Western countries are. There is no real concept of homosexuality as a sin or something you're going to hell for, and most people would be hard pressed to tell you what was wrong with it other than the fact that you aren't like most people (conformity is a virtue there) and you won't have a family, which is a shame. Many people view it as something you do rather than something you are, which was the prevailing attitude in the west as well until relatively recently. I found people in Japan would say things like "I didn't know you were into that", as if it was someone confessing a fetish or a sexual peccadillo rather than their entire orientation, but they would also say "does that mean you want to be a woman?".

There is a prevailing template of gender roles in Japan and being gay puts you outside that system (just as being a working mother does, or an at-home dad), hence the tendency to try to understand homosexuality in those terms: man loves men does not compute, man must somehow deep down be like a woman, or aspire to being one on some level. I'd say this is why there is also a huge tendency to conflate homosexuality with transgenderism and transvestism, which leads us to one of the key points: being gay may be a political hot topic in the west sometimes, but in Japan it's usually the focus of comedy. A man liking men is just weird and something to laugh at.

Anyway to get back to some kind of point, I honestly think the time has come to ask Nintendo why this isn't in their game. Not in some belligerent hostile campaign, but in plain and simple terms that are honestly asking for an answer to the question. Not because we'll like the answer - chances are a truly honest answer would come down to social conservatism in the Japanese Nintendo office and fiscal/public relations concerns in the western ones - but because making them think about the question is one way for the audience to force an internal conversation that might start us down a path to a positive resolution on this issue.

'Nintendo' is not a monolithic entity. We can be 100% sure that producers, translators, testers and others at both NOA and NOE (and let's be fair, some at NCL as well) were aware, upset and vocal (perhaps not at NCL) about the heteronormative version of life portrayed in this game, and those would not just have been LGBT people but straight people (what some call allies) who think equal representation of a diverse spectrum of sexuality in media is a right for everyone, whether or not they're personally affected.

Let's not lash out and blame just yet, but instead question and engage. The #Miiquality hashtag might be a good place to start, as public campaigns are harder to ignore than private letter-writing or effort-free petition website clicking. But to come back to my opening statement, I feel this is a watershed moment. It's one of those times when you finally say, actually, no, I won't be told this is a non-issue or that I should be happy I can find a crappy workaround in the game, or it's the inevitable product of the intersection of Japanese and big-company thinking, or I should be satisfied being gay isn't making me worse off in my life in other ways anymore and complaining about representation in a game is a first-world problem (which it surely is). The time for straight-talking (as it were) on this issue is now.
 

Madao

Member
nintendo won't change anything. they've shown that they don't care unless it affects their earning in a big way. this game looks low budget enough that they won't allocate resources to patch it (even something big like Mario Kart got a minor patch).

hopefully the people int his campaign manage to find sucess eventually and at least change the perception of other companies to do this with their games and for the rating boards to not alter ratings based on this type of options.
 

Tagg9

Member
Someone who has lived in Japan wrote a really good post about this in the Tomodachi thread.

Thanks for the link, great post.

Nintendo is undoubtedly the Disney of the video game world (their products are primarily aimed at children), and as such they're facing the same problems when it comes to including same-sex couples in their intellectual property. I fear that there's still a widespread opinion in North America that children shouldn't be "exposed" to LGBT relationships, which itself is wrong for so many reasons (as has already been discussed here and elsewhere). Disney slowly seems to be getting past this notion, and I have faith that Nintendo will do the same in time.

In pure business terms, they are alienating and excluding a large number of people by restricting the types of relationships possible in the game. In fact, I suspect this number is much larger than the number of parents that would refuse to buy the game for their children (were same-sex relationships enabled). For this reason alone, I'd be surprised if they didn't at least give it some consideration. Having said that, I don't think that Nintendo expects huge sales for this game in the west and they may not deem the extra development it worth the positive PR.

Excellent job on the campaign. I personally have no interest in the game itself, but I wish you the best of luck.
 
Proud to lend the support of my site to this movement. If there's anything we can do to help, please let me know. I'll have a chat to some of the other NIWA member wikis as well, may be able to get some support from their associated websites too.
 
What a great video—so eloquent and reasonably expressed. This game is the perfect opportunity for Nintendo to raise the standards where this issue is concerned. Reblogging and passing it on. Good luck and nice to see all the work you've put into this already.
 

Terrell

Member
The straight Miis get pregnant. If anything, same-sex relationships would reference sexuality less.
As backwards as it sounds, unless a sexual ACT is performed, heteronormative thinking means that there's nothing inherently sexual about heterosexuality. In this instance, babies appearing mean nothing due to parents and how they tell children where babies come from (here's a hint: not from a vagina).
Whereas gay people are considered inherently sexual just by EXISTING.

I know. It's stupid. But it is what it is right now.
 

Tyeforce

Member
I'm absolutely down for this, but change the thread title. I thought it was just about Tomodachi life's Mii quality or a trailer or something.

Yeah, maybe a mention of supporting same-sex relationships in the thread title will help grab more attention.
Sorry about that, I didn't think that the title might be confusing! I don't think I can change the title myself, right? So a mod would have to do it. What would a better title be? How about "Miiquality | A movement for same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life"?
 

Kinsei

Banned
You have my full support in this movement. It would be nice to be able to have a relationship with my girlfriend in this game, if I end up getting one before the game comes out.
 

BlackJace

Member
I too believe there is a possibility of Nintendo becoming more progressive in this issue as time goes forward . More and more entities are learning that simply ignoring the matter isn't holding up anymore.
 

Tyeforce

Member
Proud to lend the support of my site to this movement. If there's anything we can do to help, please let me know. I'll have a chat to some of the other NIWA member wikis as well, may be able to get some support from their associated websites too.
Thanks so much for your support!! Anything you can do to help spread the word would be amazing! It looks like the video is already getting a lot more exposure now thanks to you retweeting it! :O
 
Sorry about that, I didn't think that the title might be confusing! I don't think I can change the title myself, right? So a mod would have to do it. What would a better title be? How about "Miiquality | A movement for same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life"?
Yeah, that sounds good. Just PM a mod, I'm sure they wouldn't mind changing it.
 

maxcriden

Member
Sorry about that, I didn't think that the title might be confusing! I don't think I can change the title myself, right? So a mod would have to do it. What would a better title be? How about "Miiquality | A movement for same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life"?

That's a much better title. Just send a PM to a mod who's online right now and I'd think they'd be glad to change it for you. I'd use the # symbol your revised title, though; I feel like that helps draw the eye.
 
Watched the whole video and I only just now got why this campaign was called #miiquality. (ohhhhh it sounds like Equality, it's not just about quality of Mii lives or whatever, I R DOOFUS.)

Anyways, this is a great video! Very straightforward and you really get a sense of the two different experiences you'd get if you were straight versus LGBTQ.
 

Tyeforce

Member
Um...YouTube just removed the video for a violation of Terms of Service. What the hell?! =(

Regarding your account: Tyeforce

The YouTube Community has flagged one or more of your videos as inappropriate. Once a video is flagged, it is reviewed by the YouTube Team against our Community Guidelines. Upon review, we have determined that the following video(s) contain content in violation of these guidelines, and have been disabled:

"#Miiquality" (http://youtu.be/gI0bXQvldwM)
Your account has received one Community Guidelines warning strike, which will expire in six months. Additional violations may result in the temporary disabling of your ability to post content to YouTube and/or the permanent termination of your account.

For more information on YouTube's Community Guidelines and how they are enforced, please visit the help center.

Please note that deleting this video will not resolve the strike on your account. For more information about how to appeal a strike, please visit this page in the help center.

Sincerely,

The YouTube Team
 
I think it's a worthy cause to fight for, but I wonder if Nintendo will bother patching in a feature for a game they know will not sell particularly well in the US. The fact this is getting localized at all is a miracle, any additional support seems unlikely.
Yet, the only people who are going to buy this whatsoever would also be motivated by a cause like this. And it'd be a relatively easy feature to add. So who knows?
 

Tyeforce

Member
A bunch of bigots probably flagged it. That totally sucks!

What the hell indeed! I would look into appealing it.

That's what I'm guessing... =/ I mean, I did use music from Tomodachi Life, and YouTube matched the copyrighted content, but all they did for that was disable monetization. I've never had a video taken down before for using music like that.

Bloody hell. =/

Just tweeted about the takedown, directing people to your Twitter and FB instead. Hopefully you'll be able to get Youtube to resolve that soon. That's clearly got to be a malicious report.

Thank you. I guess I can upload the video to Facebook for now...

Remember, there's always Vimeo!
I will definitely support this. Keep it up! :)

Or Vimeo, too!
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Bigots, bored trolls, or anything in between. Still, wow. I've never had to go through this process, but how hard is it to request more info about the removal and/or appeal? You're not generating profits from this, so I thought the use of game footage was fair.

I hope there's a way around this. But in the meantime, upload it to other services and focus on updating the Facebook page and twitter instead. They should be the central parts of your campaign, rather than a single YouTube video.

Don't be discouraged, this is just a minor bump.
 
Top Bottom