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#Miiquality | Bringing same-sex relationships to Nintendo's Tomodachi series
- Thread starter Tyeforce
- Start date
Waylon Drums
Member
You're reaching way too far with this one.
What's so bad about it? What were they supposed to say? This all reminds me of Parks and Rec when Leslie marries the penguins.
What so bad about it? That they won't allow gay to be married in-game they even neglect gay's that is fucking absurd. Did you even read the article?
It's troubling when Nintendo acts like they are above social responsibility. They non-responded on a watchdog organization's audit of the human rights of their manufacuring and mineral buying practices as well.
Waylon Drums
Member
I'm going to have a really hard time supporting Nintendo in the future because of this. Does anyone else feel that they will be purchasing fewer Nintendo products because of their shit handling of this whole thing?
The people who would burn them for adding same-sex relationships are not people worth listening to as I see it. Bigotry likes to hide behind things like pedantry, inaction, spirituality, and purposeful misunderstanding.
Have you read the thread? Or any of the other articles? This game has been out. According to some, it's not the first. Nintendo was giving people here a gift, a new game to try. They were not expecting people in the time it takes for them to realize they want it, to call for them to change core concepts of the game.
That they decided not to put a gay label in the game is more than just neglecting some sex. Game design is more than just pushing a button and it happens. How do gay couples get kids? Do daddies get pregnant? Do mommies adopt? Why is there adoption in this game? Oh just change it. No. Get a different game, wait for the next one, but telling them they needed to change something is not going to get you the results you want. Nintendo may not even bring the next one over after this. That Nintendo responded at all is huge steps for them. We all want equality, but brute forcing people just loses them to you.
From the OP:
There is an understanding that only so much can be done or not done at all. That said, Nintendo has dragged their feet on other issues of social responsibility before. Keeping on them is the only way to see any change occur.
Jimmyfenix
Member
That response...Jeezo Nintendo.
It was a non-response. They haven't said 'We support and recognize the community and our fans and will look at including a more diverse stable of relationships in future releases' instead they said 'We aren't changing it. Also we can read.'
Nintendo patched out that specific part because it broke the game and was unintentional. People are asking them add completely new sections, which takes a lot of time and extra money on a title they probably were not thinking was going to have a chance, which is now in flames. If they spend anymore money on it, it will be because this controversy gets even more people interested and pick it up. But to expect them to move before that is naive.
Like I keep saying, all we can do is have the conversation. They have acknowledged what we in the West want. If TL does well, and they pursue a western release of another, I'm sure they'll try to make sure to include everything. But again, this was very niche game that they are just taking a chance on, not some AAA title they have hopes pinned to.
Their response was....as expected. Basically "can't do now, we'll see in a sequel". Nothing shocking or dumb or backwards.
It is true anyway: the game was made in Japan fully and they just updated/translated that for release outside with no big changes in the core gameplay. The thought probably went over some of the people translating the game, but they couldn't do anything about it. Adding same-sex relationships is something that would've been needed to go over NCL and them make the changes.
It is true anyway: the game was made in Japan fully and they just updated/translated that for release outside with no big changes in the core gameplay. The thought probably went over some of the people translating the game, but they couldn't do anything about it. Adding same-sex relationships is something that would've been needed to go over NCL and them make the changes.
First of all, what the fuck is Nintendo going on about in that first paragraph, seems like they're trying their damndest to say "we don't have an opinion" without coming off as "we don't wanna do it". I'd rather they just say that they didn't want to do it, as there is at least something to defend on that front.
Considering we don't know how the engine works, it may not be as simple as changing a variable. Perhaps the engine is more linear than you think, and changing the variable would throw a cascade of exceptions. Man I wish more games let you poke in the source code.
It's also infeasible to be making changes this late into the production cycle, a future patch seems more realistic, but that would take its own dev time and QA which I'm sure Nintendo wants to focus on projects that aren't a month from release.
It sucks, and of course I'd like to see gay representation, but the RoI doesn't seem in favor of it being so close to release.
Considering we don't know how the engine works, it may not be as simple as changing a variable. Perhaps the engine is more linear than you think, and changing the variable would throw a cascade of exceptions. Man I wish more games let you poke in the source code.
It's also infeasible to be making changes this late into the production cycle, a future patch seems more realistic, but that would take its own dev time and QA which I'm sure Nintendo wants to focus on projects that aren't a month from release.
It sucks, and of course I'd like to see gay representation, but the RoI doesn't seem in favor of it being so close to release.
It would be more encouraging if they actually addressed the specific request.
Something like 'We can't put gays in Tomodachi Life because it'd be dumb from a business standpoint to delay the game in order to include them. However, we want gay people to get married in future revisions. Lets here if for the gays!"
We agree so I'm not sure why you're telling me it was a PR non-response from Nintendo. I know.
I wasn't disagreeing, I was agreeing while adding my own opinion.
three_muffins
Gold Member
I support this petition. Same sex relationships are so common and normal nowadays, it feels weird to not have those in games.
A cute and sweet idea - I wholeheartedly agree.
A cute and sweet idea - I wholeheartedly agree.
But they don't care about that. They were never, and still won't take a stand. They are allowed to do that. Them saying, "we will allow gay people," will have some people think they excluded them on purpose, when they are saying that it was never a discussion.
Does anyone else find it interesting that Nintendo didn't make a statement about their position towards the LGBT community? Doesn't every company usually make a comment showing support when they're under fire about something like this?
Or have they made a comment already that I missed?
Or have they made a comment already that I missed?
As noted earlier, that's something to ask Iwata more directly, rather than a random NOA employee or even Reggie.
And many of the stances or even the outcomes of this are the exact opposite of what Tye wanted. People are now condemning Nintendo, accusing them of bigotry and even saying that they will stop supporting them; just because of this. When Tye's intention was just to raise awareness on this for a (for a possible) newer game, since a big change over this wasn't expected since the game was just translated, not fully developed again. Heck, they took their time because of the difficulties and the complexity of the original code combined with the voice/stuff in the game that lets your record your voice to give a voice to the characters.
Even that AP article that Kotaku mentioned was..reaching. They acknowledged about the differences in Japan and NA about same-sex relationships and games; Nintendo mentions that the game was originally developed in Japan and no options were on that release; then go and mention GTA, Fable and other games...that were originally developed with said "options" from the beginning; coupled with games that had gay characters in secondary/supporting roles. And titled "Nintendo Says No to Virtual Equality in Life Game".
Heck, it wasn't until the third Mass Effect games that it had a proper gay character/relationships, as the first two games the "lesbian characters" were the result of the customization of the male Sheppard into a female Sheppard. If it was something "as easy" they would've done it in ME2, even more after all the backlash the first one got for the "alien sex/sideboob".
Basically, we'll see.
If a new ones comes out and it doesn't change anything; then that would be a better case to stop supporting. At the moment, all that can be done is continue raising awareness over this...and wait.
The current response makes them seem like they don't understand the discussion or the current social reality of their consumers. In trying to take a 'neutral' stand (as they see it) they're actually coming out against the idea of social equality.
As if purposefully not including same-sex relationships in 2014 could be seen as anything BUT social commentary. If they would actually address the specific situation with direct language then they could explain why it can't be put into the English release of Tomodachi while still assuring concerned fans that they're aware of the fact that Gay people actually exist.
It could be that they do not say something like that because they are apathetic or they feel it will not have a strong impact on them at all. I remember hearing about Mozilla CEO stepping down because of private/personal funding of a law that was anti-gay I believe. People turned on the company from something he did before he was CEO and Mozilla issued a statement after he stepped down.
I don't know about you, but I typically don't pay for gifts.
This is a product that Nintendo wants us to buy. People have a right to determine what they do or don't want to buy. And for many gay people, not having the ability to be gay in a game about relationships is a deal breaker. I think that's very reasonable. But Nintendo chose to exclude them from the start.
Refusing to address the issue is seen as tacit approval of anti-gay policies. Might be a good idea to release something more official from Iwata in support of the movement... but I doubt that will happen.
This is your interpretation, but as you said, they remained neutral.
Just because you see it as exclusive doesn't mean it's their stance. It's a game not a propaganda vehicle. Not everything carries hidden motives.
QuantumBro
Banned
Nintendo tries to be neutral on any political issue, see their response to using conflict minerals.
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1682467/why-nintendo-is-being-targeted-for-using-conflict-minerals
Games are widespread culture now. They aren't on their own private islands anymore, hell Nintendo is responsible more than anyone else for their global acceptance so to just shrug your shoulders and say 'We just make games' is to say that your games aren't for gay people.
Excluding homosexual couples is by defi it I on making a political statement, and a gross one. ItS not like this is a game with a linear narrative where changing the characters sexuality might have rippling changes to a ton of story beats.(imagine how much extra work and would have to do if drake was gay).
Media shapes thoughts and feelings in subtle and unsubtle ways. Only having heterosexual relationships in a game about wanting you to fashion a personal experience in the game world sends an (in)direct message to the LGBTQ community: you are not important enough to be represented.
Thanks for posting this. It really is troubling to see a company as prominent as Nintendo being so totally backward on allowing external audits of its supply chain.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I've been seeing a lot of people talking about this on Twitter today.
And I've seen several dozen more just today.
And I've seen several dozen more just today.
Christine Love has been rightfully shaming Nintendo's response as well.
chrominance
Member
But Nintendo isn't remaining neutral on this issue; they're just trying to make it appear as though they are. Here's the quote from their statement:
That implies that the current situation of "no gay marriage" is a sort of unchanging default, and that supporting that default is as much a choice as supporting the concept of water being wet. But that's not the case. Tomodachi Life not having gay marriage simply because no one thought to do it is still a decision, and it's even more of one now that Nintendo has acknowledged it and says they won't change it.
It's well within Nintendo's rights to say "no, we're not changing this game to include gay marriage," of course. But for them to pretend that's not a statement they're making, to pretend their current stance is somehow neutral, seems to miss the point of the whole discussion.
Waylon Drums
Member
I'm not going to support them. I think that that's a reasonable response. They put out a LIFE SIMULATOR that only included straight relationships and refuse to update the game so that everyone can enjoy it fully. Why is that a company that I should be supporting?
There is more to this argument than either or. What does a corporation stand to gain from claiming a side? What did Chick-Fil-A gain? They probably got more support for a week or so, since they're almost entirely based in the South, but apathy has probably pushed the whole issue out of everyone's head. The only people who don't go there now, had no trouble not going there before.
Nintendo does not need to claim allegiance to one side or the other. If you don't buy the game, and Nintendo feels that they could have made more profit with you they will be back with a better offering. But if a patch is all it takes to change your mind about Nintendo, then I don't want that kind of equality. I'd rather they conceive of something new that had everyone in mind from the beginning, not some western redux where the cigarettes are pixie stix.
Waylon Drums
Member
No one has that privilege. You either support equality or you don't. "Remaining neutral" really only means "staying out of the fight" which essentially means that you're okay with what's happening. This is how a society works.
Okay. You're interpreting a bias that wasn't there. Just because something is absent didn't make it exclusionary. I don't interpret games as racist because they don't immediately cater to my race. Or if a company doesn't immediately cater to my interests. To say it's exclusionary, is to interpret an intentional malicious conspiracy. Which is ridiculous. Which is why this project exist, to raise awareness not condemn people as homophobic.
Expecting a toy manufacturer to be on the bleeding edge of social progress in products sold in areas where gay marriage isn't even legal seems to be sort of ridiculous. Their audience is younger kids. Gay marriage is not legal in Japan. If this were something involving their employees/benefits/etc, I'd be much more inclined to be upset. But this is a decision that makes sense in the current state of the world. No, it doesn't match my ideal, but I recognize why it doesn't and that they aren't the real problem.
Owlowiscious
Member
Could you please remove the b word from this post? It's pretty offensive.
I hope you don't use it again in the future.
Social responsibility is more important than ever so no it doesn't make actually make any sense. They are rightly being skewered for fence-sitting.
Waylon Drums
Member
They're planning to sell this game where it IS legal so that argument is not valid. They've chosen to bring this game to an area that has different cultural expectations. If the dinosaurs at Nintendo couldn't see this issue coming a mile away, then that's bad business and it's on them. I'm not going to apologize for wanting to live my life just like everyone else and YES that includes expecting that a "toy manufacturer" would include the ability for me to marry my husband in a LIFE SIMULATION game.
Corporations are not people, regardless of what the US courts tell you. If they tell you they like gay people, it's because bean counters told them it was equitable to do so. Fuck off with that fake ass equality that reads like a bullet point in a list war. Just make your product and I'll buy it if I like it. If I don't, come back with shit designed for me.
Waylon Drums
Member
Can't edit it but I love that you have such a big axe to grind that you went that far back into my posts to find a comment like that.
Waylon Drums
Member
You don't have to like it, but that just makes you wrong, friend. You'd do well to take at least an Intro to Sociology course.
That too. This is the "same company" that didn't include an option to choose a female trainer in Pokemon until an actual sequel (and a few releases in between). They just included an option a change the skin tone of the main character in that series, after over a decade of games (something that they don't allow in Animal Crossing still...another "life simulator").
Sadly, Nintendo is still quite...slow to get in with times ("Nintendo's gonna Nintendo"). More than they been homophobic or bigots, it seems to be....normal, with the way they acts and react towards things; since many of the topics and concerns raised over their games are usually when they get outside Japan. And they still are a very japanese-centric company that mostly caters to their own.
Hopefully a sequel will allow for same-sex relationships (along an Animal Crossing that lets you change your character's skin tone).