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Millennials like socialism until they get jobs (WaPo)
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Calamari41
41 > 38
Most people that I know took a turn to the right after getting their first paycheck and seeing the extent of the deductions.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
Who says they have "it" yet? They may be getting jobs but those student loans are coming due at the same time.
ClosingADoor
Member
No, it's probably just getting less idealistic once you get older and get out into the workplace more. Pretty normal and has always been that way. I don't see why this is framed as being unique for millennials.
That's almost a truism. Most people will favor those politics that benefit him the most.
What I find more interesting is how useless the term "socialism" is, if it cannot distinguish between a market-based social democracy, which as far as I know is what Bernie Sanders falls into, and communism.
What I find more interesting is how useless the term "socialism" is, if it cannot distinguish between a market-based social democracy, which as far as I know is what Bernie Sanders falls into, and communism.
outunderthestars
Banned
That is a really fascinating article that I suggest everyone read in its entirety.
As someone who is pushing 40, it seems to almost perfectly mirror my political beliefs over that last 20+ years. I started to the far, far left and have gradually gotten more fiscally conservative with time. I'm still a straight ticket Democrat but find myself disagreeing with some of the more liberal members of the party.
As someone who is pushing 40, it seems to almost perfectly mirror my political beliefs over that last 20+ years. I started to the far, far left and have gradually gotten more fiscally conservative with time. I'm still a straight ticket Democrat but find myself disagreeing with some of the more liberal members of the party.
entremet
Member
Because they've accepted socialism or social welfare programs more than any other demographic, yet when push comes to shove, they wilt.
But you're right, this is a citizenship issue. Many voters want better schools, roads, and so on, not knowing that it costs money.
Kansas is a great example. Brownback promised tons of cuts, but what also happened? He gutted essential public services that people took for granted.
Nothing new. This is the age-old adage of, "Anyone under 30 who votes Republican doesn't have a heart. Anyone over 30 who votes Democrat doesn't have a brain."
The Hermit
Member
well duh
my brother is almost a communist, yet he never worked in his life. I am pretty sure he will change his mind once he sees how much the government takes from him.
my brother is almost a communist, yet he never worked in his life. I am pretty sure he will change his mind once he sees how much the government takes from him.
Believing Scandinavia is socialist is like believing North Korea is a liberal democracy.
If communism is achieved there's no government so I don't see the relevance.
If communism is achieved there's no government so I don't see the relevance.
Yeah, I'm not voting for Sanders because he will upend the market. I think capitalism is a far better system. You just absolutely need social institutions in place to invest in citizens health and education. Otherwise you are failing a generation that will be less competitive and mobile in the market.
Over 30 here. I'm not sure about "socialism" but the baby boomers (essentially, millennials who had a viable job market in their peak years) have spent the past 35 years voting against their own interests and pushing us further to the right. We just need some course correction at this point.
Yes. This has been the stereotype for decades and decades.
Framing it from the vantage point of millennials is disingenuous, and indeed, the author acknowledges about two-thirds of the way through that Gen Xers and Baby Boomers went through a similar shift.
I believe you will see a hard right turn in this country in 15-20 years. Sort of echoing the shift to the right in the 1980s (following the liberalism of the mid-to-late 60s).
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I still want socialism, but it can't just be something you flick on. It needs to be implemented carefully and gradually otherwise you're screwing the unprepared.
entremet
Member
That's probably me. I like Sander's appeal to populism, but I don't think his plans are realistic.
Wage growth has been stifled since the 70s, while housing only going up. Taking another chunk away for more social programs will not be something most of the middle class would be eager to do. Not like it would happen even if elected since he's only an executive. Congress sill needs to make the laws.
outunderthestars
Banned
To be fair, the fill article never says that it all millenials, just a statical majority of them.
Christopher
Member
It's called reality. Life outside the college bubble hits some harder than others due to college coddling them.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
Especially when the current stewards of our government are more likely to see Paul as a billionaire. I'm skeptical about whether or not our government would do anything useful with additional tax revenue: if the options are to keep taxes low or raise taxes on some to further bloat the military budget and give tax cuts to millionaires, I'd rather keep the taxes low.
Taxes didn't reach this level in any one 4-year period. The course correction needs to be just as gradual and people need to be shown that their increased tax burden will go to something that actually matters. Our government has zero credibility right now with regard to how it spends money.
FWIW I earn $67,500 a year before taxes and I still voted for Sanders.
Hate getting bogged down in the semantic arguments about what socialism means, too. I would much prefer it if we had a much better word to describe Scandinavian-style social democracies.
Hate getting bogged down in the semantic arguments about what socialism means, too. I would much prefer it if we had a much better word to describe Scandinavian-style social democracies.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Of course. It's palatable when you think you'll get both the benefits and the perceived revenge against those who you think are going to be the ones to pay for it.
The funny thing is that the US Democratic Party is a member of the Progressive Alliance, which also includes parties like Germany's Social Democratic Party, Sweden's Social Democratic Party, or Norway's Norwegian Labour Party.
That's why the term "socialism" has almost no useful meaning in US politics. Classic social-democratic policies have been part of America's political landscape for some time. And as far as I know, nobody of significant influence really promotes a socialism of planned economies.
Call it Viking Capitalism. Watch how fast people warm up to it.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
You mean after answering loaded questions on a survey.
Cato institute is biased towards libertarianism.
Cato institute is biased towards libertarianism.
Social Democracy is a perfect term.
Byakuya769
Member
After going through the "pay three times more in taxes or you're selfish!" thread and seeing posted numbers for who was for/against that sentiment, not surprised at all.
Pretty much. Everyone has some ideas that make perfect sense to them when they're young and when you have to confront the real world and its impact on your life you're due for a shock.
The most interesting part of the article is just how socialism is defined/what it means to those generations and how it's clearly pretty nebulous. But then again it's not surprising that if you say "would you like free education and health care?" people are all "sign me up" and then support evaporates when they realize it'll be costly.
And I don't think I've ever heard it used here (I mean even Bernie should have probably used it since it's far more descriptive, but then again that might invite the unfavorable comparisons to Scandinavia and how his ideas are in some ways more radical than there.)
Seems like it would involve a lot more pillaging when you describe it that way
This is just people, not millennials. Like other people have said, people agree with politics that benefit them. And one of the things that differentiates that is your current state of work and just as importantly, income.
The difference is that millennials have a platform to voice their opinions, sometimes anonymously, to a larger audience. This magnifies that idealism that a whole bunch of college students have about how things "should be" in their pretty special snowflake heads. None of the previous generations have had this, ever.
When they become a part of the working force and have a better understanding of the world without the protection of school, they change up. Nothing new. Just a platform to document the changes.
The difference is that millennials have a platform to voice their opinions, sometimes anonymously, to a larger audience. This magnifies that idealism that a whole bunch of college students have about how things "should be" in their pretty special snowflake heads. None of the previous generations have had this, ever.
When they become a part of the working force and have a better understanding of the world without the protection of school, they change up. Nothing new. Just a platform to document the changes.
Socialdemocracism?
Oppo
Member
sure. and some people are very Not Ok.
i've always thought of this as the very root of the left/right divide. "No fair." basically, you have empathy and think beyond your own needs and intellectualize the problem (sometimes too far, like communism) ... or ... you decide that you do not want to pay any of your hard-earned dollars for anyone else, because everyone's got their own problems and needs to look to themselves and their families first. So, tax policy, basically.
what millenials seem to be responding to is democratic social tendencies like you see in Scandinavia or to a lesser extent Canada. i dont think any of thrm really want Cuba style revolution.
isnt there an old line in US politics... something like, a Conservative is a Liberal that got mugged?
As someone who just entered the job market it is hard to see my money go to taxes when they could be spent on boardgames... but I think that's made a lot worse cos my taxes go to the UK government who spend them on wars I don't support and subsidising oil companies (which makes me job actively worse)
It sucks admittedly even (especially!) for some mediocre minimum wage part time job.
But part of the problem is not really seeing as much as we'd want out of that and the fact those who can more readily shoulder the burden don't and usually just stow the money away. I can deal with biting the bullet if my quality of life goes up since that's kind of what we're TRYING to pay for anyway.
This effect is pretty common in game theory. If you feel you have something you're less likely to give it up.
It makes sense too. Suddenly school loans takes a backseat to other things like a mortgage or kids and the money you make needs to stretch further as your expenses go up. You're not at the bottom but you don't feel like you're on the top either.
It makes sense too. Suddenly school loans takes a backseat to other things like a mortgage or kids and the money you make needs to stretch further as your expenses go up. You're not at the bottom but you don't feel like you're on the top either.
highrider
Banned
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Natural human tendency to look out for number 1, but also a very destructive one at times.
Christopher
Member
Again about 45% of my check is taxed in NYC to "help others" - people who work are already doing their part to help others. This "fuck you I got mine" mentality is a huge slap in the face it's basically keep giving to me fuck you is more like it.
I don't think it's selfish that people want to provide a good home, food and education to their family first...
I don't think it's selfish that people want to provide a good home, food and education to their family first...
ebullientprism
Member
What's that old quote - "If you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you are old, you have no brain."
Democracy is a form of government, capitalism is a form of economics. Nothing about democratic capitalism is innately oxymoronic.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
The article is using Reason.com polls.
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