Kuranghi
Member
I guarantee your OLED is safe from being superseded by miniLED sets in any area it was already dominating. The worst thing is going to be missing out on general advancements which was going to happen anyway ofc.
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Mini-LED is here and it is absolutely incredible and worth considering
- Thread starter JohnnyFootball
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I guarantee your OLED is safe from being superseded by miniLED sets in any area it was already dominating. The worst thing is going to be missing out on general advancements which was going to happen anyway ofc.
MistBreeze
Member
Im with u sir in everything u r mentioning
i have a sony x900e it is a 55 inch TV and Im happy with it for 3 years now
I want to upgrade to 65 inch and yes I know OLED is superior technology to FALD LCDs in every way despite brightness
in 2021 there will be OLEDs TVs with 1000 nits brightness but every time I want them I reconsider cause of burn in issues
I hope mini led meets expectations for time to me to upgrade
Kuranghi
Member
I know this might not be an easily answerable question but do most of the games you play have colourful and bright art styles (Like say Mario) or more realistic/darker visuals like Batman/Metro?
If you don't really play things with tons of big bright scenes the OLED is the right choice. The idea that they "aren't as bright for HDR" is kinda misleading, small/thin highlights on the screen like neon edge-lighting on a sign or just super bright highlights of any size next to really deep shadows/black are generally going to be brighter and look much better on an OLED, conversely on an LCD they will normally dim objects that are much smaller than a single dimming zone or super bright objects next to dark areas regardless of size , which will be most HDR highlights on most LCDs, since even the best ones might have pretty big zones, in the 65" model especially.
I can't help you with burn-in worries except to point you to the videoes I'm sure others have already, like rtings long-term OLED tests, but don't be discouraged from buying OLED due to it not being "bright enough for HDR" unless you only play games with insanely bright presentations like with hardly any darker areas on screen. In those very very specific cases a good FALD LCD will look "better" in some ways, but its not worth the tradeoff for 90% of people imo.
I have a 65" TV where the zones are only around 2 by 3 inches each and I still get blooming in challenging scenes (bright spaceship engine over dim/near black starfield background) even though the object is actually quite a bit bigger than a single zone size on the set. So what I'm saying is miniLED will still have these problems even with thousands of zones unless they use image processing to dim things down significantly and away from the creators intent, apply reverse vignettes or other things you don't want if you value accuracy.
I'd just buy one of these "new" custom panel 1000-nit 2021 OLEDs that Panasonic had exclusive access to for two years (I assume, no way to know really), because miniLED will not be a revolution, at best I would hope that mid-to-high-end sets will match the dimming capabilities of best ever released from the three big brands:
(All zone counts are for the 65", because even though the Sony and Samsung are available in 75", the Pana is only 58" and 65", same zone count for both models according to displayspecifications.com)
Sony ZD9 - 646 zones
Panasonic DX902 - 512 zones
Samsung Q90R - 480 zones
I do think the dimming algorithms are getting better all the time though, so they possibly will manage to look a ton better even with miniLED backlights that would otherwise produce comparable (in whatever way that may be, I presume its different in how it works since the LEDs are physically smaller) results to the models I listed.
The best money for most people will be spent on a 2021 OLED that hopefully allows closer to 600 nits full field, which is what you get from super high end LCDs, reducing the problem I spoke of at the start of my post to a point where its negligible.
Kuranghi
Member
It irked me at first but after a year or so of selling TVs to the general public I had to think "Well, thats what they like and they aren't going to learn why you shouldn't do it so I don't care anymore, I will sell them the TV that does motion the best and looks the least crazy/most accurate in Vivid/Dynamic picture mode", it helped me sell more (Sony) TVs because I realised the quality of the motion algorthm was even more important for them because they have it whacked right up to max usually.
Imtjnotu
Member
" So for this year Samsung display's qd oleds will be in Sony and other manufacturers TV sets."
yes you did lol. again. samsung is not going to be making any consumer OLED displays for any big box store.
they may sell to other companies but they will not be marketing their oleds for any consumer.
MistBreeze
Member
yes Im planning to buy OLED in 2021 if the TVs are on par as pricing with mimi led tv for each size
and we will see how mini led TVs perform
Im not in a hurry as sony x900e is a great tv for the time being
MadPanda
Banned
And how does that quote imply that they're going to ditch LG display?
Samsung electronics isn't going to make an oled TV this year. Samsung display is going to make oled displays and sell them to whoever is interested.
v_iHuGi
Banned
Expensive today will be cheaper tomorrow.
I still remember 4K being something insanely expensive & now I can go to a Store, buy 30 4K tvs & still have money left for a laptop
StateofMajora
Banned
I think that Sony might be 1 year late to adopt mini led, but when it does, their best in the biz dimming algorithm combined with mini led will get it close enough to Oled black levels, while beating the pants off its hdr performance might make it superior overall to current sony oled. In pretty much everything but pixel response time, and that lack of perfect blacks will be missed.
Performance on low bit rate and compressed content will look better on mini led as well. Also, BFI will not incur an extra lag hit due to the backlight unlike oled. Esp. if they move quantum dot film to the front ; it should be better than current oled overall.
QD oled with panasonics custom heatsink on the other hand...
We'll have to see, but either way I can't get one since I have the A8h and it will be a downgrade in blacks and response time, I just can't do it lol. But if I had no tv, sony mini led would probably be my next choice choice. I can't upgrade until they adopt an inorganic self emissive tech though. And since i've already seen a bit of burn in, I refuse to get another oled as well haha. My warranty is good til 2025 though so
CamHostage
Member
I'm not sure if this is it, but Sony is teasing its pre-CES announcement (oh, btw, CES begins next week, surprise?) with a Brava announcement where they are promising, "Tomorrow, the future of TV is revealed."
Teaser:
Livestream will be here:
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StateofMajora
Banned
CamHostage
Can't wait!I wonder if it's their whole lineup or just one model. Could be the A9H Master series oled, mini led, etc. Perhaps their LCD's will remain the same but have 2.1 across the board.
kyliethicc
Member
Hawking Radiation
Member
Yeah this looks awesome. This TCL brand is legit.
StateofMajora
Banned
So, my summation after watching is that, their lcd lineup is still full array lcd, not mini led, and the 8 series oled is using the same panel. They did mention that the 9 series oled has a higher peak brightness ; it would be awesome if they've incorporated Panasonic's custom panel with their heatsink to hit 1000 nits.
The 9 series is the only thing exciting to me, but it'll be interesting to see how the new XR processors fare, and I definitely expect at least 1 hdmi 2.1 port on their whole lineup, maybe 2 ports. As I expected, they're letting mini led mature a bit before they implement them.
Man it was a cringe worthy presentation though lol.
Kuranghi
Member
Even if TCL had amazing dimming + blooming control without processing the image too much, the motion and general presentation wouldn't be good enough for me personally from what I've seen. They do a bit worse than Samsung and I don't like the way Samsung do it at all. I am glad to see another brand having multiple hundreds of dimming zones in their LCD sets, like 2018 and 2019 Samsung, because even with worse motion and general IQ I like seeing these high zone count LCDs. I just like the way FALD LCD looks overall for all content, you know not just talking about a black levels and blooming, because obviously OLED is going to win there every time.
I haven't read up much on passive vs. active matrix, is it a big saving on the BOM I take it? Kinda makes it useless imo if the zones can't react fast enough for quick changes during fast cutting.
vpance
Member
TCL falls short on the processing to keep the prices down, but it shows in the blooming, yeah. Maybe this time will be different? If the TV will be brighter than the X10 then the blooming will be even worse. They must have worked on it some to compensate.
With you on FALD LCD. Just love the overall PQ and brightness. I've worked from home almost a year now and my TV is my monitor so it's on the whole day. Nice to have 0 worry about how I use it.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
microled, miniled, qned.... and oled.
Only oled is self lit right? All others are in fact normal LCD buth with per pixel lighting LEDS ?
Ulysses 31
Member
MicroLED is self emissive too like OLED.
vpance
Member
OLED and Micro LED are self emissive. Only Micro can have enough LEDs to provide per pixel lighting.
Mini LED is still promising because it might get good enough for it to be a challenger in contrast for almost all situations unlike most current FALDs.
Boss Mog
Member
MicroLED is the holy grail, it has all the advantages of OLEDs (self-emissive thus perfect blacks without blooming) and none of the drawbacks (no burn-in and can get much brighter than OLED for the best HDR experience). It's at least a decade away from becoming affordable and mainstream though.
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MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
My next TV
Genx3
Member
Micro Led is self emissive tech.
That means there is no need for back lighting.
Of course OLED is affordable to the masses while Micro LED is for the extremely rich as of now.
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vpance
Member
Philips out of nowhere! Over 1000 dimming zones.
1) The LCD panel is VA-type with quantum dot colours.
2) The peak brightness is 1500 nits.
3) the HDMI 2.1 bandwidth is 48Gbps FRL.
4) HGiG will be supported for gaming
5) Input lag is around 18 milliseconds.
6) Availability is end of June.
1) The LCD panel is VA-type with quantum dot colours.
2) The peak brightness is 1500 nits.
3) the HDMI 2.1 bandwidth is 48Gbps FRL.
4) HGiG will be supported for gaming
5) Input lag is around 18 milliseconds.
6) Availability is end of June.
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x@3f*oo_e!
Member
All LED's have burn in - they loose brightness over time - non-OLED might/could/will be better than OLED for this, but it won't go away.
The should be some fixes for this for both, including software or hardware solutions (basically per-pxiel re-calibration) .. both would still reduce the maximum brightness of the panel over years, but at least avoid burning
..
Also mini-LED .. it's just local dimming.. Doesn't sound so hot when you don't use the marketing term. Just like Quantum Dot aka slightly better phospors ..
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MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
These specs are awesome. I hope how much it will cost
Boss Mog
Member
My post was about microLED though so I'm not sure why you're talking about miniLED. microLED is a per-pixel technology like OLED, except it uses non-organic LEDs. miniLED is technically a local dimming solution but one that allows for thousands of dimming zones rather than just dozens like on traditional LED sets with local dimming. It'll be the best thing until microLED is affordable.
vpance
Member
Apparently Philips isn’t sold in the US. But Hisense owns it now. If Hisense has an equivalent model then I guess it shouldn’t be very expensive.
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StateofMajora
Banned
I'm really looking forward to seeing Samsung's Qled Neo 90A 4K model.
Thus far, their local dimming algorithm has focused on eliminating blooming at the cost of crushed shadow details and some artifacting, so it'll be interesting to see if they go closer to Sony's superior approach now that the zone count will be so high. Also hoping that their local dimming in game mode no longer takes a hit.
If they improve their dimming algorithms in all tv modes, that would be great. The input lag is low enough on Samsung TVs, they're the lowest of them all ; they should focus on image processing quality. It's not going to be the TV for cinema enthusiasts, but it will surely be a great option for gamers. If there are no bugs in this hardware, I think Sony will adopt it next year and that will surely be an incredible lineup for them.
The technology is super exciting and i'm also looking forward to seeing how screen uniformity is, which should be vastly improved. Samsung is usually not good in the uniformity aspect.
Thus far, their local dimming algorithm has focused on eliminating blooming at the cost of crushed shadow details and some artifacting, so it'll be interesting to see if they go closer to Sony's superior approach now that the zone count will be so high. Also hoping that their local dimming in game mode no longer takes a hit.
If they improve their dimming algorithms in all tv modes, that would be great. The input lag is low enough on Samsung TVs, they're the lowest of them all ; they should focus on image processing quality. It's not going to be the TV for cinema enthusiasts, but it will surely be a great option for gamers. If there are no bugs in this hardware, I think Sony will adopt it next year and that will surely be an incredible lineup for them.
The technology is super exciting and i'm also looking forward to seeing how screen uniformity is, which should be vastly improved. Samsung is usually not good in the uniformity aspect.
x@3f*oo_e!
Member
.. the stuff about miniled was an aide, not directed at you.
Ascend
Member
That... Is... CRAZY. Would be very good for VR, if you don't go blind.
anothertech
Member
Had bad experience with the B series.
Switched to Samsung's highest end for a couple years. Then got my hands on a CX.
I'm all in oled now. The difference is staggering.
Will be interesting to see how the mini led stacks up. But until microled, I'll be an oled guy for picture quality.
Switched to Samsung's highest end for a couple years. Then got my hands on a CX.
I'm all in oled now. The difference is staggering.
Will be interesting to see how the mini led stacks up. But until microled, I'll be an oled guy for picture quality.
StateofMajora
Banned
I really wish they didn’t call it qned lol. Very misleading.
Only the large sizes are mini led, so 65inches or bigger. and it’s still ips, so that’s not ideal for contrast.
I’m kinda thinking it won’t really be good, with questionable black uniformity but we will see. If it turns out to be passive matrix and not active like Samsung, it’s Garbo.
Samsung q90 will definitely be superior. On the high end - Lg oled for the cheaper gaming oled option, Sony 90j for the best oled, and Samsung for the best lcd gaming set are gonna be the ways to go.
For the mid range, I think Sony lcd will be best.
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BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Super excited about it. Going to try and upgrade my 4K65” Samsung Curved from like 6 years ago, to a TCL XL Mini LED 8K this year. Provided it has VRR support preferably also Gsync.
otherwise I might go LG. But either way, it will be hella cheaper and hella brighter than OLED, and still have good black levels.
exciting year for TVs.
otherwise I might go LG. But either way, it will be hella cheaper and hella brighter than OLED, and still have good black levels.
exciting year for TVs.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
These were supposed to be cheaper than oled...
vpance
Member
Well, they will be cheaper than the new premium OLED panels. The QN85 and under models will be their budget miniLED options with lower tier AR coating and ultra wide angle tech.
If this is the new mid tier it's a welcome sight.
vpance
Member
Yep this year all panel tech are seeing big upgrades. Lots of new miniLED options, cheaper OLED, and finally bright OLED panels on the high end.
Troglodyte
Banned
This whole "burn in" concern is far overblown. I've owned numerous OLED sets without issue. Vincent put out a good video last year regarding this. He used the TV for six months, 20 hours a day without an issue. My oldest OLED currently has 6,000 hours on it without an issue that is used for TV viewing and gaming. My newest CX is strictly for gaming and has 1000 hours on it without an issue.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
I'll be holding onto my C10 OLED until MicroLED hits 8K and affordability. There's only so much better a picture can get, i mean were surely hitting the law of diminishing returns now.
Over the weekend we watched The Two Towers 4K Remaster... it was insane looking and with the final battle being filmed in the dark with lots of rain.. the amount of detail on display, HDR armour highlights and texture on materials even made the wife comment on the picture quality with the two of us stood a few feet from it at points like a coupla fucking nerds pointing out how good this looks or that looks, same goes for Blade 4K, fuck me the opening now has a picture quality to rival the audio, again proper deep blacks with incredibly rich, dark reds with bright as fuck HDR blood highlights... and this is on a TV outa the box on the Cinema preset, couldn't even be arsed with tweaking the settings from our man Vincent T.
TLDR: Get an LGCX, save a few quid and be happy as a pig in shite until a proper next gen TV tech is released
Over the weekend we watched The Two Towers 4K Remaster... it was insane looking and with the final battle being filmed in the dark with lots of rain.. the amount of detail on display, HDR armour highlights and texture on materials even made the wife comment on the picture quality with the two of us stood a few feet from it at points like a coupla fucking nerds pointing out how good this looks or that looks, same goes for Blade 4K, fuck me the opening now has a picture quality to rival the audio, again proper deep blacks with incredibly rich, dark reds with bright as fuck HDR blood highlights... and this is on a TV outa the box on the Cinema preset, couldn't even be arsed with tweaking the settings from our man Vincent T.
TLDR: Get an LGCX, save a few quid and be happy as a pig in shite until a proper next gen TV tech is released
Marcus Aurelius
Banned
I don't know about you guys but I buy a TV for atleast 5-10 years. Don't want to babysit my fcking tv, so no OLED for me. Mini led it is.