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Miyamoto on Zelda Wii and Zelda ST

AzureNightmareXE said:
Anyone care to explain to me just how this statement can be seen in a negative way? I can't help but think that everything in it is absolutely positive. Perhaps I have a different understanding of the implications than other people, but for me its meaning seems to be crystal clear.
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Some people are lazy asses who don't want to swing around or use motions for control because they see it as more covenant to just map stuff to a button (Amir0x?) .

Some people here seem to have a liking to the pointer which I can understand (Like I said in the SMG thread, I think they should have TWO bow and arrows so that you can use your pointer for on and M+ for the other).

Some just like bitching about things they don't know yet.

Im pretty sure their not gonna do something that makes aiming and targeting WORST . . .


OH, and Im looking foward to ST for the FIRST TIME! Is this more stuff that hasn't been translated?
 
Oblivion said:
Eh? What was so damning about those quotes?
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more shitty awful waggle controls, of course

zelda games are not about immersion, or gestural mechanics. get your retard lightsaber sim fantasies outta my zelda, i say, and send that senile boob miyamoto up the river

the controls should be reductive and simple: directions and button presses. combat has never been an interesting aspect of a zelda; even the boss "battles" have abandoned the typical combat for puzzle solutions -- and successfully so. zelda is ultimately about exploration/discovery, environmental puzzle solving, and the larger tracking/collecting metagame. combat is just there for the pacing, really, which is why i didn't mind its utter lack of challenge in wind waker and twilight princess.

oddly, the useless inanity of ph's touch controls were overwhelmed by the shitty dungeon design and uninteresting puzzles, and of course the horrid horrid trial-and-error stealth mechanic
 
Black-Wind said:
Some people are lazy asses who don't want to swing around or use motions for control because they see it as more covenant to just map stuff to a button (Amir0x?) .
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While I certainly can understand the perspective of those who want to use games to relax and thus don't feel like exerting the energy required to make fools of themselves by poorly pantomiming various activities, that's never been my issue.

My aim is controls which are always predictable, which are the most efficient and direct route to controlling my character on screen. This has nothing to do with laziness, for if motion controls were as reliable and as efficient as pressing a button, I would like it as much. In the current iteration of hardware it is nowhere close. We exchange quality controls for limp-dicked 'immersion', which isn't even immersive at all. I covered all the various issues the wiimote had in that one serious discussion thread. So until they are solved, I will always prefer the superior control methods which exist for the moment on keyboard+mouse and traditional controllers.

Right now the current implementation of motion controls into many games have served as an impediment to my enjoyment because it is so often a stepback from what has come before.


One day we might get to a point where motion controls provide the appropriate feedback when interacting with objects, where gestures are less open to the interpretation of the game and more consistent and reliable. Maybe one day it will even match or exceed the merits of these older control schemes. It just hasn't happened yet, is all.

I'm more adverse to the ridiculousness of the whole motion waggle process than the 'energy' involved in playing the games, actually, but I've still played a billion Wii games anyway. It's not going to stop me from giving shit a fair shake. Good games are good games.

It's just naturally harder when these iffy changes are applied to long cherished franchises, where the benefits are few and the disadvantages many. I just want the best possible control scheme, and I think a lot of this is ignored in favor of appeasing a set of gamers who never cared in the first place.

As to your optimism regarding Nintendo not doing anything "worse", I guess we simply don't share that belief. They've frequently made shit worse.
 
crazy monkey said:
I can't wait for zelda wii :D
I just want to ride horse and fly on dragons :D :D
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OMG, that way we could have sky diving like in WSR!!!

Drinky Crow said:
more shitty awful waggle controls, of course
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2mwtk79.jpg
 
Drinky Crow said:
more shitty awful waggle controls, of course

zelda games are not about immersion, or gestural mechanics. get your retard lightsaber sim fantasies outta my zelda, i say, and send that senile boob miyamoto up the river

the controls should be reductive and simple: directions and button presses. combat has never been an interesting aspect of a zelda; even the boss "battles" have abandoedn the typical combat for puzzle solutions -- and successfully so. zelda is ultimately about exploration/discovery, environmental puzzle solving, and the larger tracking/collecting metagame. combat is just there for the pacing, really, which is why i didn't mind its utter lack of challenge in wind waker and twilight princess.

oddly, the useless inanity of ph's touch controls were overwhelmed by the shitty dungeon design and uninteresting puzzles, and of course the horrid horrid trial-and-error stealth mechanic
Click to expand...

I didn't read anything in those quotes saying that exploration is going to be put aside, and that combat will be the focus.

I don't understand why you think we can't have both.
 
Drinky Crow said:
zelda games are not about immersion, or gestural mechanics. get your retard lightsaber sim fantasies outta my zelda, i say, and send that senile boob miyamoto up the river
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:lol so true.
 
AniHawk said:
is how I read this sentence
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I can definitely see why you'd feel that way.

I didn't have much of an attachment to 2D Metroid, I thought they were great games mind you. I appreciated the atmosphere, the fluidity of the controls, but I wasn't that invested in them.

I became invested in the series through the Prime games. There were a lot of things that just couldn't translate into the FPA the series became. I do think it's a faithful adaptation of the 2D games, but there's a but there. It's not perfect.

Shooting becomes a larger portion of the game then it was before (not that the series was light on blasting) mainly because of move-sets that couldn't be translated well. It almost seems like it's emulating 3D Zelda to a degree.
 
AniHawk said:
Maybe that's why it was shopped to Retro first before realizing they're even bigger hacks than the guys that did Phantom Hourglass.
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Oh, so you mean the guy that did the GBA and GBC Zeldas. Yeah what a hack.
 
sprsk said:
Oh, so you mean the guy that did the GBA and GBC Zeldas. Yeah what a hack.
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No, that would be Flagship.

Though it does explain why Phantom Hourglass's dungeons were only slightly more complex than the ones in Link's Awakening.
 
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one on GAF who loved Zelda TP's motion controls and loves the thought of motion+ being used in the sword fights.
 
Amir0x said:
While I certainly can understand the perspective of those who want to use games to relax and thus don't feel like exerting the energy required to make fools of themselves by poorly pantomiming various activities, that's never been my issue.

My aim is controls which are always predictable, which are the most efficient and direct route to controlling my character on screen. This has nothing to do with laziness, for if motion controls were as reliable and as efficient as pressing a button, I would like it as much. In the current iteration of hardware it is nowhere close. We exchange quality controls for limp-dicked 'immersion', which isn't even immersive at all. I covered all the various issues the wiimote had in that one serious discussion thread. So until they are solved, I will always prefer the superior control methods which exist for the moment on keyboard+mouse and traditional controllers.

Right now the current implementation of motion controls into many games have served as an impediment to my enjoyment because it is so often a stepback from what has come before.


One day we might get to a point where motion controls provide the appropriate feedback when interacting with objects, where gestures are less open to the interpretation of the game and more consistent and reliable. Maybe one day it will even match or exceed the merits of these older control schemes. It just hasn't happened yet, is all.

I'm more adverse to the ridiculousness of the whole motion waggle process than the 'energy' involved in playing the games, actually, but I've still played a billion Wii games anyway. It's not going to stop me from giving shit a fair shake. Good games are good games.

It's just naturally harder when these iffy changes are applied to long cherished franchises, where the benefits are few and the disadvantages many. I just want the best possible control scheme, and I think a lot of this is ignored in favor of appeasing a set of gamers who never cared in the first place.

As to your optimism regarding Nintendo not doing anything "worse", I guess we simply don't share that belief. They've frequently made shit worse.
Click to expand...

I can see where your coming from more so now but as you can see Im on the other end of the stick. We all know that Motion Controls and M+ are in their early stages and just like with the Joy Stick its gonna take a lot of trail and error before people know how to use them in a way that surpasses the old input system but it can and will happen. I simply think that someone (Nintendo) can get it right and show how it can make things better when they really dig into it.

And yes, I know they can fuck things up (Like the touch control to walk in PH. It WORKED but I would still want D-pad control as a option because I can't roll for shit with them) but I have more faith in their console Zelda approach. Just like how they got Z targeting to work and did great things with the cam system and Joy Stick controls back when everyone was struggering with them I believe they can come up with something else which leads the way with M+ motion controls. I believe that one day we will look back and think "HOW did we get by with out this (Im doing that right now with pointer controls in MP Trilg. I can't aim shit on the 360 now)".

I but Im much more open to the idea of Motion Control sword play because I seem to see thing the opposite of you. I don't want to have attacks just be a timing game where a simple button does the job for me, I want there to be room for error in how my attacks are done via having more control over the attack myself.
 
No, that would be Flagship.
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Though it does explain why Phantom Hourglass's dungeons were only slightly more complex than the ones in Link's Awakening.
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Get your facts straight sonny. Hidemaro Fujibayashi the main director of the Oracle Zelda Games and Minish Cap, as most the designers and programmers worked for Capcom. Hirobayashi now works for Nintendo as well as one other guys from the Oracle team. The first game he fully worked on as a Nintendo employee was Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks

I have yet to find a single Flagship involved game where they actually developed or programmed the game. For the most part they are a game planner-coordinator that bridges 2-3 teams to develop games jointly.

Flagship was involved in 2 Kirby titles (which were programmed by DIMPS/Natsume), 3 Zelda games (which were programmed and designed by Capcom Production Studio 1) and 2 Fire Emblem games (Radiant Dawn and Sacred Stones which each had like 4-5 development teams working together).
 
I might be batshit insane (certainly from a marketing standpoint), but sometimes I wish Nintendo would let Zelda be, and start a new franchise along the same action adventure veins. A spiritual successor where they have much more freedom, lesser expectations and more untapped potential. Or even a Zelda franchise that is closer in spirit to Final Fantasy, where there's only very loose gameplay and thematic links between them.

I wish most series would be like this. Never gonna happen... :/
 
Twilight Princess said:
the zelda franchise is dead =(
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Twilight Princess
Member
(Today, 09:26 PM)

:D

I liked TP's bow aiming with the IR. But I didn't like using the sword, it was too unresponsive, I found it easier to use the spin attack.
 
Rustymonke said:
I might be batshit insane (certainly from a marketing standpoint), but sometimes I wish Nintendo would let Zelda be, and start a new franchise along the same action adventure veins. A spiritual successor where they have much more freedom, lesser expectations and more untapped potential. Or even a Zelda franchise that is closer in spirit to Final Fantasy, where there's only loose gameplay and thematic links between them.

I wish most series would be like this. 'You may say I'm a dreamer'... :/
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But . . . why?

"Nintendo releases new IP. Its a adventure/ puzzle title starring Tracey the Cat . . . "

Fans: . . . Meh, this is just a LoZ rip off. Yeah, its different in this this and that but still . . . LoZ is their action adventure puzzle game . . .
When the fuck are they gonna make LoZ?!?"

Shadowlink said:
Am I the only one who actually liked Twilight Princess?
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Fuck NO!

That was my favorite LoZ (Yeah, above MM you MM whores).

But I have never played OoT (I started with MM) so I could see how people would be upset with how it seems like OoT2.
 
Rustymonke said:
I might be batshit insane (certainly from a marketing standpoint), but sometimes I wish Nintendo would let Zelda be, and start a new franchise along the same action adventure veins. A spiritual successor where they have much more freedom, lesser expectations and more untapped potential. Or even a Zelda franchise that is closer in spirit to Final Fantasy, where there's only very loose gameplay and thematic links between them.

I wish most series would be like this. Never gonna happen... :/
Click to expand...

You mean like Marvelous?
 
:lol @ all of the ignorant asses whining about vastly improved motion controls in the next Zelda. Grow a pair of balls boys ( and girls?) and learn to go with the flow. Your whining is just a waste of energy and effort.
 
AzureNightmareXE said:
:lol @ all of the ignorant asses whining about vastly improved motion controls in the next Zelda. Grow a pair of balls boys ( and girls?) and learn to go with the flow. Your whining is just a waste of energy and effort.
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I request that the girls not grow a pair of balls, purely for the sake of my sanity.
 
Phantom Hourglass is the only Zelda I've been disappointed with, and even then I enjoyed it a lot. Fuck the haters. Zelda Wii and Spirit Tracks are going to be fantastic.
 
Twilight Princess said:
it is a rather "meh" game. :(
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I dunno.

I wasn't incredibly impressed by TP. I didn't think it lived up to the hype either Nintendo or I built up for it, I thought it had a lot of flaws, and I probably wouldn't play through it again.

But I enjoyed it a lot when I played through it. I liked it enough to finish it to the end and having fun doing it. To me, that's more than a "meh" or a mediocre game.

It could have easily been a better game and a better Zelda, I'm not disputing that. I just don't think it was bad.
 
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