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[Deleted member 30609]

loose-fitting monocles are fine, but if you insist on a top-hat just hang it up with your coat upon arrival

 

[Neomoto]

Maybe it has been said already. But I think the IR pointer was not only used for the bow in TP, but for all motion gameplay. Isn't it the case that the sensor bar can determine what movement you are doing by sensing the begin state of the controller (through IR pointing) and the end state, in combination with the accelerators (when does it begin moving, when does it end, and how fast was the movement)? Assuming this is indeed true, then it would mean that it would not just use the IR pointer for motion, but motion+ because that can sense precise movement in 3D space without having to use the IR pointer. In other words, maybe he wasn't talking (solely?) about the bow and arrow mechanic.

 

[EatChildren]

Twilight Princess is rad, true. One of the best Zelda games. The clumsy and empty overworld was the only problem I had with it. wasn't very fun to get to the places I had to go.

I think the side quest system is it's biggest flaw. They're fun, but totally botched in terms of rewards. I think what rates Ocarina so high (for me personally) is that it handled side quests and upgrading equipment in a way that felt natural. You explored, found secrets, completed sidequests, and were almost always rewarded with something of value. That way you could branch off the main quest and still push the game forward.

Twilight Princess on the other hand had terrible rewards for most of the side quests, sometimes getting worse the 'harder' the sidequest got. Money was a big problem here, largely because currency is Zelda is usually useless and was at it's worst in TP.

I'm quite happy if they stick with a lot of the traditional Zelda formula but refine the clearly broken and bland aspects. New puzzles. Better sidequest rewards (or, at least, on par with Ocarina). Strong boss battles. And so on.

 

[Mantorok]

With regards to Zelda Wii I just hope they don't do a NSMB on us and give us an upscaled version of a DS game. I'm all for a new refreshing Zelda game on the Wii, TP was great and all but the formula became a little too predictable.

 

[EatChildren]

With regards to Zelda Wii I just hope they don't do a NSMB on us and give us an upscaled version of a DS game. I'm all for a new refreshing Zelda game on the Wii, TP was great and all but the formula became a little too predictable.

Why would they? NSMB Wii is clearly homage to old school side scrolling Mario games because they play different to the 3D versions, and on top of that we still got Galaxy and are getting Galaxy 2.

Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks are built very specifically for the DS hardware and input. I dont see why Nintendo would abandon an established concept for home console Zeldas in favour of returning to 'traditional' roots that are being explored in some degree elsewhere.

 

[batbeg]

With regards to Zelda Wii I just hope they don't do a NSMB on us and give us an upscaled version of a DS game. I'm all for a new refreshing Zelda game on the Wii, TP was great and all but the formula became a little too predictable.

I'm pretty sure they'd do a Super Mario Galaxy on us, as doing a NSMB on us was more or less done on the Gamecube.

 

[megashock5]

I actually thought PH was rather hard compared with pretty much every other Zelda in existence...

Spoiler

I suck at using the stylus ; ;

Same here, mostly because I don't like stealth - I'm not patient enough.

 

[Rustymonke]

Alternately, they could do just that, and still continue making Zelda. If they're going to have to make a new franchise anyway, why should they forgo making games that will continue to sell? And once those games no longer sell, they have a new franchise that is already being made.

Because Nintendo don't have infinite resources. Of course if they were ever going to do this, that's how they'd do it. Starting with a small 'experiment' between Zelda games.

I stopped watching Lost because it only has two formats. Meandering senselessness or quick burst action. And 80% of the episodes of any season are meandering senselessness. I don't feel qualified to make any statements about the viability of change in the story when I can't get past the presentation.

This means nothing, it's just a round about way of saying you think the show is shit. I'm afraid if you haven't watched it lately, you can't really comment on what I'm talking about. The last two seasons (and especially the latest) have been some of the best ever drama tv imo (up there with the first season of Twin Peaks), but now we're really getting off topic.

 

[wRATH2x]

loose-fitting monocles are fine, but if you insist on a top-hat just hang it up with your coat upon arrival

Alright, where do we meet?

Anyway, I'm actually really happy Nintendo are taking their sweet time on this game. Twilight Princess was pretty huge for a 1.5 GB game, I hope the extra storage means extra content.

 

[djtiesto]

Well great, now what am I supposed to do with all these Polaroids of my television proving I beat Dynowarz?

Niiiice... never thought I'd hear a mention of Dynowarz on GAF.

 

[rhino4evr]

I think the side quest system is it's biggest flaw. They're fun, but totally botched in terms of rewards. I think what rates Ocarina so high (for me personally) is that it handled side quests and upgrading equipment in a way that felt natural. You explored, found secrets, completed sidequests, and were almost always rewarded with something of value. That way you could branch off the main quest and still push the game forward.

Twilight Princess on the other hand had terrible rewards for most of the side quests, sometimes getting worse the 'harder' the sidequest got. Money was a big problem here, largely because currency is Zelda is usually useless and was at it's worst in TP.

I'm quite happy if they stick with a lot of the traditional Zelda formula but refine the clearly broken and bland aspects. New puzzles. Better sidequest rewards (or, at least, on par with Ocarina). Strong boss battles. And so on.

Actually, this was my opinion as well.

I loved that there were tons of caves and things to explore, but all you got from them was more rupees. Which you didn't need, as there was very little to buy..and you had a limit to the amount of rupees you could carry. Also..everything was cheap, so you never needed that much money to begin with.

If there is ONE thing that Phantom Hourglass did right, is make gold more important. No Wallet limit, and plenty of items to buy for your ship, made collecting treasure much more rewarding.

ALSO...Adding two heart pieces to each dungeon..made for less things to collect in the overworld.

 

[Green Mamba]

ALSO...Adding two heart pieces to each dungeon..made for less things to collect in the overworld.

That was a big one for me. They added an additional heart piece to fill up a container, only to waste a good number of them by sticking them in dungeons behind easy puzzles instead of giving them as rewards for sidequests and exploring the overworld. Made the overworld feel a lot more empty of sidequests than it really was or should have been.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Or because it was just too OoT'ish or it was not OoT'ish enough. Some people can't decide anymore if they want a Zelda that is too similar to OoT or not :S

That is EXACTLY what the problem is. Thank you.

Some Zelda fans just don't know what the hell they want. It's as simple as that.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I think it'd be really cool if Zelda Wii's core gameplay focused on the NPCs in the game. Could come up with some really interesting ideas.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I think it'd be really cool if Zelda Wii's core gameplay focused on the NPCs in the game. Could come up with some really interesting ideas.

The last game that did this was Majora's Mask, so yes it would be interesting.

 

[wRATH2x]

That is EXACTLY what the problem is. Thank you.

Some Zelda fans just don't know what the hell they want. It's as simple as that.

Pretty much.

 

[gamergirly]

Actually, this was my opinion as well.

I loved that there were tons of caves and things to explore, but all you got from them was more rupees. Which you didn't need, as there was very little to buy..and you had a limit to the amount of rupees you could carry. Also..everything was cheap, so you never needed that much money to begin with.

If there is ONE thing that Phantom Hourglass did right, is make gold more important. No Wallet limit, and plenty of items to buy for your ship, made collecting treasure much more rewarding.

ALSO...Adding two heart pieces to each dungeon..made for less things to collect in the overworld.

Not only that but most sidequests in TP didn't feel difficult. Like he said above, the type of reward you get should equal the difficulty of the sidequest.

If I can just pounce through some simple obstacle course or follow a monkey around(for example) in a forest for about 5-10 minutes, then a piece of heart is fine.

If I have to go through a mini-dungeon and fight a handful of tough enemies while getting my butt kicked then reward me with some special armor. Armor that you can ACTUALLY USE in some dungeons and advanced areas.

Zelda:TP felt very much like a OOT that could have been. I was very hyped about the game but it doesnt hold like OOT did years later for me. In some ways I felt it improved the series, in other ways it felt like a stepback or just a standstill altogether. But I think my biggest problem with Twilight Princess is that the subbosses were more dangerous than the actual bosses of the main dungeons. That should never happen in MOST cases.

I also don't understand why Miyamoto wants to dumb down a traditional, hardcore game series like Zelda. If he wants to use the DS to play fodder to his childhood dreams and the casual crowd that's one thing. But you don't do that on consoles where this series was grown and breaded.

A $20 difference btw a handheld Zelda and a console Zelda SHOULD reflect what Im getting gameplay-wise. I expect more beef, technical abilities, exploration possibilities, and overall difficulty. I don't want to pay $50 for an easy Zelda. I'd rather pay $30 for that.

Is it really that hard to make a hard Zelda? Is it? Really? That hard?

 

[carlo6529]

This is kind of random but you know what would be cool? If they implemented some sort crafting ability in Zelda. It would allow them to put so many unique items in the zelda world instead of just filling random caves with rupees, bombs/arrows and the occasional heart piece. It could be a new way to make money, unlock quests or even further progress the gameplay.

I wouldn't want the whole game to be based on crafting, but I think it is something that could shake up the gameplay but still feel "ZELDAish".

 

[rhino4evr]

Not only that but most sidequests in TP didn't feel difficult.

Is it really that hard to make a hard Zelda? Is it? Really? That hard?

Or why not make Difficulty levels like every other devleoper out there?

I never understood this about Nintnedo.

If Zelda TP had a "hard" mode, people would have been much happier. All they would need to do is have the enemies actually hurt you more then 1/4 of a heart, and have less hearts floating around in breakable vases. SO EASY to do. Why not do it already?

 

[AceBandage]

Or why not make Difficulty levels like every other devleoper out there?

I never understood this about Nintnedo.

If Zelda TP had a "hard" mode, people would have been much happier. All they would need to do is have the enemies actually hurt you more then 1/4 of a heart, and have less hearts floating around in breakable vases. SO EASY to do. Why not do it already?

I don't see how.
From what I've seen, and from my own experience, was that TP felt too bare. Too lifeless.
I mean, it's nice to want Difficulty Levels, but that doesn't really solve anything.

 

[AntMurda]

I think the problem is that Zelda has never been an easy game as a whole. The puzzles and dungeons in the game can be quite elaborate and imaginitive. And certainly keep most people from beating the games.

The problem is several games have featured an almost insulting difficulty when it comes to the action portion of the game.

 

[Blackbird|]

Or why not make Difficulty levels like every other devleoper out there?

I never understood this about Nintnedo.

If Zelda TP had a "hard" mode, people would have been much happier. All they would need to do is have the enemies actually hurt you more then 1/4 of a heart, and have less hearts floating around in breakable vases. SO EASY to do. Why not do it already?

Just dont pick up the heart containers

 

[gamergirly]

Or why not make Difficulty levels like every other devleoper out there?

I never understood this about Nintnedo.

If Zelda TP had a "hard" mode, people would have been much happier. All they would need to do is have the enemies actually hurt you more then 1/4 of a heart, and have less hearts floating around in breakable vases. SO EASY to do. Why not do it already?

Zelda has always been(pre GC/DS) a progressively harder game. The dungeons get more complicated as time goes by and you get much stronger/powerful items. There is NO hard mode. The challenge is already built in. If anything, some of the sidequests are usually more difficult or you can't access until much later in the game. It would feel unnatural to have a "hard" mode in such a series

 

[rhino4evr]

Zelda has always been(pre GC/DS) a progressively harder game. The dungeons get more complicated as time goes by and you get much stronger/powerful items. There is NO hard mode. The challenge is already built in. If anything, some of the sidequests are usually more difficult or you can't access until much later in the game. It would feel unnatural to have a "hard" mode in such a series

The same goes with almost ALL games. Of course the last level will be more difficult then the first. Im just saying they could have a mode that allows the enemy to do more damage when they attack you. It wouldnt change the gameplay, except make the battles more intense.

 

[Rustymonke]

That is EXACTLY what the problem is. Thank you.

Some Zelda fans just don't know what the hell they want. It's as simple as that.

Maybe because there are lots of different Zelda fans who want different things? It's a radical idea I know.

Just dont pick up the heart containers

Don't fully play the game, and deny yourself rewards, because the difficulty is screwed? Ah, no thanks. That's not really addressing the problem is it? I have a bit hope for Nintendo's kind code (or whatever it's called).

 

[gamergirly]

The same goes with almost ALL games. Of course the last level will be more difficult then the first. Im just saying they could have a mode that allows the enemy to do more damage when they attack you. It wouldnt change the gameplay, except make the battles more intense.

That's what the sidequests are for. Once you've memorized how to annihilate every enemy in the game, go find some more.

 

[Rustymonke]

Zelda has always been(pre GC/DS) a progressively harder game. The dungeons get more complicated as time goes by and you get much stronger/powerful items. There is NO hard mode. The challenge is already built in. If anything, some of the sidequests are usually more difficult or you can't access until much later in the game. It would feel unnatural to have a "hard" mode in such a series

Yes, and it would be fine if they got the balance right, instead of absurdly easy to fairly easy.
No one complains about the challenge of the Pre-WW games for this very reason.

However, there is now a great divide in Zelda's audience between those who have been playing for many many years, and the newcomers. A difficulty setting is the obvious way to help this, and the 'kind code' might be another. Why is this even a debate?! :lol

 

[rhino4evr]

That's what the sidequests are for. Once you've memorized how to annihilate every enemy in the game, go find some more.

So you want the next Zelda game to only have harder sidequests? I don't understand your logic here.

WTH is wrong with starting up a new Zelda adventure and selecting "HARD" instead of Normal?

I mean what's the big deal? Are Nintendo games supposed to be this perfect product of game design that difficulty levels are considered a sign of weakness?

Metroid Prime offered different difficulty levels, and Im glad it did. MP III on Normal was WAY too easy for my tastes. Playing the game on Hard pretty much saved it for me.

 

[gamergirly]

So you want the next Zelda game to only have harder sidequests? I don't understand your logic here.

WTH is wrong with starting up a new Zelda adventure and selecting "HARD" instead of Normal?

I mean what's the big deal? Are Nintendo games supposed to be this perfect product of game design that difficulty levels are considered a sign of weakness?

Metroid Prime offered different difficulty levels, and Im glad it did. MP III on Normal was WAY too easy for my tastes. Playing the game on Hard pretty much saved it for me.

Because it's not Zelda. I dont want Super Easy, Easy, Normal, Advanced, Legendary, Tired, Sick, Lazy, Roughouse, or Angry mode. I just want Zelda mode

 

[batbeg]

I hope like all fuck they give us infinite capacity for rupees. I ended up playing every god damn dungeon twice because I hated knowing there was an unopened treasure chest containing some pitiful amount of rupees, ruining my map of that dungeon.

And on that note:

Just dont pick up the heart containers

Can't be done. If I can't even leave those useless rupees behind, do you think I can ignore heart containers? They need to work on the difficulty, not leave it to us to cripple ourselves for a satisfying difficulty level.

 

[upandaway]

So you want the next Zelda game to only have harder sidequests? I don't understand your logic here.

WTH is wrong with starting up a new Zelda adventure and selecting "HARD" instead of Normal?

I mean what's the big deal? Are Nintendo games supposed to be this perfect product of game design that difficulty levels are considered a sign of weakness?

Metroid Prime offered different difficulty levels, and Im glad it did. MP III on Normal was WAY too easy for my tastes. Playing the game on Hard pretty much saved it for me.

I just don't think that's what's missing. It's a bandage, not a solution.

The solution will be more fun and varied enemies, more inventive and challenging puzzles. Not obscurity of hints and health pickups. And besides, there's the whole "empty" thing to be taken care of.

 

[Mana Sin]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one on GAF who loved Zelda TP's motion controls and loves the thought of motion+ being used in the sword fights.

You're not alone. *hug*

 

[Mato]

We've managed to gather quite a few creative team members for Zelda ST, so I'd like Zelda Wii to also enjoy creative development as much as possible.

This sounds great. The same logic behind Majora's Mask, my favorite Zelda.


edit - Just realised this is in relation to Spirited Tracks and not Zelda Wii. Meh. ST couldn't be creative if it tried. Not in a million years.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

The last game that did this was Majora's Mask, so yes it would be interesting.

That was more of a side quest. A very deep side quest that was great, but what I'm talking about is that Nintendo needs to take the extra step with the NPCs and have them centered around the core gameplay.

 

[NintendosBooger]

Just make the world huge and diverse, that's all I care about. I'll play with any type of control scheme; accept any graphical alignment; tolerate the worst sort of enemies and puzzles; just give me a huge and diverse world.

 

[J-Rock]

Just the thought of Miyamoto working on a new Zelda title hypes me through the roof. I loved Twilight Princess, but I'm hoping this new one can do for the series what Galaxy did for Mario.

Well said. That's exactly how I feel.

 

[ZAK]

I don't see much of a difference between picking hard mode and not walking over to that heart container the boss just dropped.

 

[BGBW]

Just realised this is in relation to Spirited Tracks and not Zelda Wii. Meh. ST couldn't be creative if it tried. Not in a million years.

Are you telling me trains are not creative?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I don't see much of a difference between picking hard mode and not walking over to that heart container the boss just dropped.

A hard mode would ideally be more than just "enemies do more damage"?

 

[Mato]

Are you telling me trains are not creative?

Are you telling me they are?

 

[rhino4evr]

I don't see much of a difference between picking hard mode and not walking over to that heart container the boss just dropped.

then you have no real reward for winning in the first place. Why would I want to not collect something I was rewarded. This is pretty much impossible for collection freaks out there, and there are a lot of us.

Plus, when your playing the first time, how do you know the game won't get more difficult. The entire (skip all the heart containers) is more of a 2nd playthrough challenge, then a first platythrough experience.

 

[BGBW]

Are you telling me they are?

Industrial Revolution tells me they were.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Industrial Revolution tells me they were.

In the context of gameplay, what makes Link's train much different than the ship in PH?

 

[BGBW]

In the context of gameplay, what makes Link's train much different than the ship in PH?

Delays due to leaves on the tracks.

 

[Mato]

Industrial Revolution tells me they were.

I can't tell if you are joking. I really don't know if I should bother with you.

 

[the_painted_bird]

In the context of gameplay, what makes Link's train much different than the ship in PH?

The context is going to be largely the same with little variations in how you deal with overworld enemies and gathering rupees/treasure chests, probably. What can we really hope for? A world in which we can control the train directly, while we lay down tracks along the way, à la Wind Waker? Maybe, but GAF haters of Wind Waker's method of travel, as well as Phantom Hourglasses will always flip on what they say they want or should (damn that word) be included in Legend of Zelda games. I'm thinking it's the former, though.

Edit: Fuck, sarcasm(?)

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

The sailboat was infinitely preferable in Wind Waker than in Phantom Hourglass, the problem that Wind Waker had with overworld mechanics was that there wasn't much going on from point A to B, even if the visuals of the trip were fucking incredible looking. It would've helped if they didn't segment the map into little squares, one island per square, but yeah I realize they did that due to technical limitations.

a.k.a: both sailing systems had flaws, it's just that PH was much more flawed.

 

[BGBW]

The context is going to be largely the same with little variations in how you deal with overworld enemies and gathering rupees/treasure chests, probably. What can we really hope for? A world in which we can control the train directly, while we lay down tracks along the way, à la Wind Waker? Maybe, but GAF haters of Wind Waker's method of travel, as well as Phantom Hourglasses will always flip on what they say they want or should (damn that word) be included in Legend of Zelda games. I'm thinking it's the former, though.

Edit: Fuck, sarcasm(?)

Wind Waker has the problem that you constantly had to take out the baton, play the song and watch a cutscene in order to change direction. Phantom Hourglass at least removed that, but now you have the hassle of constantly have to redraw your path everytime you want to adjust direction. Not to mention that boss which required you to constantly draw circles around it to keep sailing. Wind Waker's similar boss kept it simple by trapping you in a whirl pool.

I know I was being slightly sarcastic earlier, but you can't really dismiss the creativity of the Spirit Tracks because of one element, the train, in the game.

 

[beelzebozo]

uh, how much do we actually KNOW about the structure of the train segments in ST? how it works? does anyone have a story with impressions about how exactly this functions, beyond vagaries about using it to travel and being able to build your own tracks?

So you guys basically want a "Master Quest" included with every future Zelda, am I right?

Plus I fucking loved sailing and exploring in Wind Waker, fuck you guys!

same. you just gotta lose yourself in it and enjoy it for what it is. amazing music totally sells the ambiance. love WIND WAKER.

 

[wRATH2x]

So you guys basically want a "Master Quest" included with every future Zelda, am I right?

Plus I fucking loved sailing and exploring in Wind Waker, fuck you guys!