Mobile Suit Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans S2TEKKADAN is MURDERERS, HAIL GHALLARJORN

I thought Macross Delta and Reconguista in G were both better than Orphans. So you tell me.

Good for my paycheck, yes.

I half agree with you. Delta was, for all its faults, pretty good. Probably one of the better Macross soundtracks as well, IMO.

G Reco though, we must agree to disagree.
 

Blackage

Member
Saw this quote on twitter had me crying laughing:

"- I have this unnerving curiosity on what sex with Mikazuki would even be like. He had the most narrow range of emotions. Does he carry that deadpan expression while fucking? What if Atra had that bomb ass pussy? Would he still just be like "mmm. Ok. What would Orga do?""
 
I thought Macross Delta and Reconguista in G were both better than Orphans. So you tell me.

Ew and double Ew.

Well at least I made it a couple episodes into Delta, Recon G I watched the first episode and it was so boring I couldn't tell you a single thing that happened. There was a girl with pink hair or something? I dunno.

Delta's songs were catchy at least. I need to get once of those big kits, I got the smaller one and liked it besides it being sticker hell.
 


Everyone has a preference I guess.

/Changes Twilight Axis from "Must watch" to "See first two episodes"
 

NeonZ

Member
What's the obsession with the UC? Thunderbolt is great but isn't Reconguista set super far into the UC? Aren't they running out of space to explore and continuously add more stories? It seems that they'll be more and more contrived rather natural progressions of the timeline and often don't make sense mechanically in relation to other stories in the saga, e.g. 0083 Stardust Memory vs Zeta. I wish that they'd create a new universe set it in it's infancy...similar to Gundam 00 but actually used to be the foundation of something long lasting. Bandai and Sunrise seem so fixated on selling people on the UC and only introduce a new universe for brief periods to allow their writers more time to shoehorn a story into the Universal Century. Honestly, I think Gundam needs a hard reset to rid itself of all its tropes and introduce novel ideas to the franchise.

This probably isn't the popular opinion here but oh well, I don't care.

That's exactly it though. Their strategy is to focus on AU for new fans, but every old fan, even ones that start with AUs, are supposed to go to UC afterwards.

And considering how they're brute forcing Thunderbolt into mainline continuity, even though the manga was very loose with it and even replaced established designs in a couple of those of the war elsewhere, they don't seem to care about tech inconsistencies at all.
 

casiopao

Member
I liked those too, but IBO was also good.

G-Reco had so much more interesting premise than IBO or even Delta there. All the lore is also great when it is focused and not pushed to sides thanks to Sunrise trolls.

Macross Delta except for the song probably is the worst Macross for me even vs M7.

Not only it had worst triangle, it had the worst final battle at all. Especially when they just come from Macross Frontier superb final battle.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
As far as war cliches go very few things hit me harder than recognition of those forgotten by history.

And making them disadvantaged kids is just unfair.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I'll be honest Dainselifs were the most underwhelming tech in this show. As far as I can tell they're very fast needles. Not even as atrocious as a nuclear missile and yet these things are banned?
 
He could've just used it earlier too
he basically emptied the entire warehouse/supplies with how much he had
when Rustal got bored and got his required made up "fight" he would just cleans up the house with it again

oh well
 

casiopao

Member
I remember that in Calamity War, Dainsleif is actually used to launch Nuclear strike there. So they probably just changed them into a strong needle there.

I mean, i don't think anyone want to see Portable Nuclear launcher there everywhere.^^
 
The dainsleif do mostly punch straight through mobile suits and ships alike, and the ships in IBO were actually sorta tough. They can be shot from pretty far away, and are pretty much unstoppable. So I can see why they'd be banned, even if somewhat unimpressive. Although then you see Shino use it, and it's even less impressive.

Seeing it happen, having them rained down from orbit is probably how the MAs were taken care of.

I remember that in Calamity War, Dainsleif is actually used to launch Nuclear strike there. So they probably just changed them into a strong needle there.

I mean, i don't think anyone want to see Portable Nuclear launcher there everywhere.^^

Oh yeah, there was some comment about them being more of a grey area legally when not used in conjunction with certain types of ammunition.
 

TheFlow

Banned
G reco action scenes, characters, and mechs are definitely worth a watch. I enjoyed orphans more because let's be rea the plot was way Better
 

duckroll

Member
What you don't like

*dramatic cockpit shot, pan to flying, dramatic cockpit shot, pan to punch, dramatic cockpit shot, pan to more flying* scene?

I remember an action scene in G-Reco which was actually really well animated but super confusing and felt like it was missing frames. Turned out it was. I took the individual cuts apart, grabbed a few shots from the OP which looked like they were supposed to be in the same scene, stitched it all together and it actually flowed like it was supposed to. Supposedly Tomino asked for some cuts to be removed from certain scenes because he is ??????????.
 
G-Reco had so much more interesting premise than IBO or even Delta there. All the lore is also great when it is focused and not pushed to sides thanks to Sunrise trolls.

Macross Delta except for the song probably is the worst Macross for me even vs M7.

Not only it had worst triangle, it had the worst final battle at all. Especially when they just come from Macross Frontier superb final battle.
K best place to ask this, then:

What is the BEST SERIES TO START ON if you want to watch Macross?
 

Evilkazzzz

Neo Member
Well it's finally over.

Cant say I hated the series but I truly find IBO to be one of the weakest Alternate Universe series. Probably right on par with original SEED and AGE. Though IBO had some pretty great mobile suit designs and music.

My main beef with IBO is that I felt there was so much wasted potential. I see it in nearly every facet of the show. Orga and Mika's relationship could have went somewhere, but it didn't really. The backdrop of the oppressive Gjallarhorn government and it's mistreatment of Mars and the colonies doesn't actually get interesting/fleshed out enough for it to be important. There are a multitude of side characters that get the smallest amount of definition/development then the show basically drops them. Take Hush for example. Early on he was getting a good few scenes, signalling to the audience that he would become more important. But after a few episodes defining his character and setting a goal for him, the show basically drops him entirely and he gets pretty much no more scenes (about him).

And this isn't even bringing up the lack of action scenes for all of the (main) mobile suits this show has. Gundam Vidar was terribly underutilized and so many others were. Flarous, the pirate mobile suits, Helmwige and more had like 1 action scene and weren't really seen again or maybe had a couple frames in another fight. With the fairly slow pace of IBO I believe that this is a problem. Turn A had few action scenes per episode too but also had far less mobile suits so each one generally got plenty of moments to shine.

Season 2 spent so much time meandering around and it bugs me. And S1 was just pretty dry in general, at least to me.
 

duckroll

Member
K best place to ask this, then:

What is the BEST SERIES TO START ON if you want to watch Macross?

My opinion is that all Macross TV shows are different flavors of bad, and the only worthwhile entries are OVAs or movies because they waste less of your time. But if you really MUST watch a Macross TV series, I would go with Macross 7.
 
the movie is really good

like all Macross stuff, the retelling movies is always better

DYRL is GOAT, while I think SDF is outdated soap opera

Cause the movie doesn't dwell so much on him being an annoying petulant shithead with daddy issues.

Much easier to stomach him (tho the plot is still fucking stupid)
 

fertygo

Member
Cause the movie doesn't dwell so much on him being an annoying petulant shithead with daddy issues.

Much easier to stomach him (tho the plot is still fucking stupid)

the movie also give better ending for father issue subject ironically

All Macross plot is fucking stupid, really the subject is much better versed only thematically but not for taking it on face value,
 

MechaX

Member
I wonder, would Rustal have even gone through the effort to make Ghallarjorn democratic if Iok didn't get himself killed?

Space Guts is MVP
 

Sanojio

Member
What's the obsession with the UC? Thunderbolt is great but isn't Reconguista set super far into the UC? Aren't they running out of space to explore and continuously add more stories? It seems that they'll be more and more contrived rather natural progressions of the timeline and often don't make sense mechanically in relation to other stories in the saga, e.g. 0083 Stardust Memory vs Zeta. I wish that they'd create a new universe set it in it's infancy...similar to Gundam 00 but actually used to be the foundation of something long lasting. Bandai and Sunrise seem so fixated on selling people on the UC and only introduce a new universe for brief periods to allow their writers more time to shoehorn a story into the Universal Century. Honestly, I think Gundam needs a hard reset to rid itself of all its tropes and introduce novel ideas to the franchise.

This probably isn't the popular opinion here but oh well, I don't care.

G reco is over 1100 years after victory gundam. There is a new manga, In UC 168, 15 years after Victory Gundam the federation collapsed and the entire situation is a mess, leading to the calamity war that destroyed every single space colony in the earth sphere, killed 90% of all humans and completely destroyed the environment on Earth except in the Amazon. That was from Tomino himself.

All I want to see UC wise is this fall of UC and also Crossbone Gundam be animated.
 

Nephtis

Member
lok's death was so very satisfying to watch.

I wish the same would've happened to that chick. I can't even be bothered to learn her name because she annoyed me so much with her self-righteousness.
 

Defuser

Member
I wonder, would Rustal have even gone through the effort to make Ghallarjorn democratic if Iok didn't get himself killed?

Space Guts is MVP

He has no choice. Issue family heir is dead, Iok got publicly outed for using the illegal dainslef and firing it upon an surrendered turbines ship. Fareed family got stained due to McGillis and Iznario for the young boy sex slave scandal. Not to mention the Bauduin daughter is engaged to Fareed so they might get implicated also.

3 out of the seven stars are gone, 2 of them are infamous, 1 dead and 1 implication. You can't continue to pretend nothing has happened.
 

convo

Member
Loved the finale. I already said that once dreams are sufficiently passed on to the next generation or friends than the protags can die all they want. And a baby came out of it too so what's there to be mad about? I imagine a sequel to orphans isn't needed but a sequel series in this universe could be possible. There are so many demons left that havn't gotten a gundam model yet i am certain someone wants those.
 

Shun

Member
I half agree with you. Delta was, for all its faults, pretty good. Probably one of the better Macross soundtracks as well, IMO.

G Reco though, we must agree to disagree.

The reactions I see for Macross Delta overseas is hilarious with how much they hate it, versus how it's received and how popular it was in Asia. I found them throwing away the love triangle for a very cute and grounded romance and relationship nice because you didn't have the same amount of dwelling on the annoying angst and love triangle garbage. If you've been in a relationship before, you appreciate the kind of relationship Hayate and Freyja have a lot more with how endearing it is, versus the dynamic you had with Alto/Ranka/Sheryl. The highs in Macross Delta was also very high, and it sadly suffered from pacing issues and production as well. Something that Thomas Romain could probably explain better as he worked on it, if he chooses to do so in the future.

Reconguista better than Orphans...? Damn, what did you like about Reconguista?

UC has always been the most popular kind of Gundam, it's all their biggest demographic ever buys and consumes. And for good reason because that's what they like most.

The only comparable universe that is alternative is the SEED universe, which is the second biggest universe in the franchise and is still running and serialized in ACE for more than a decade. Nothing else compares in sales and popularity to UC.

Bandai has tried with 00, AGE, Wing, and even Orphans, the new and current demographic just want UC and SEED. It's hard creating and committing to a new series long term, without the explosive initial popularity. They get expanded and serialized for a while, nothing much after that. In many cases, their universe expansion just doesn't pan out and suck, 00 is the worst with that with the 00P/I/etc novels.

I'm not going to throw any coworkers or superiors under the bus, but like some of Tomino's other past works like with F91, Reconguista had a very troubled production period throughout the broadcast where the sponsors and producers impose strict limitations on Tomino and Reconguista, cutting out and condensing a large chunk of the story to fit the scheduling, and cut a lot of key frames for animation to maintain budget.

Even with the release of the Blu-Rays, Tomino and the production staff weren't able to get and finish all the original cuts and frames to meet the Blu-Ray release deadlines. Even with clean ups the Blu-Ray still wasn't able to realize Reconguista for how it should have been.

I don't blame any of Reconguista's faults on Tomino at all as he and the team was fighting against limitations the entire time. Tomino's vision of the world of Reconguista is actually very layered and nuanced, meant to target a current audience, but also draw in UC fans with a lot of easter eggs. A lot of the world works as a criticism for the issues that we face in modern society today with renewable energy distribution, space exploration and the viability of a space elevator, discrimination and suppression of human rights groups, the list goes on with Reconguista.

For all the issues it had, Tomino and the staff did the best they could and provided a very deep and layered universe, beautiful animation, some of the best Ippei Gyoubu robot design, a good outline of socioeconomic conflict, and I actually had fun with the characters and cared about them. You had tribalism, racism, economic conflict with photon batteries, a protagonist that really struggles to come to terms with his first murder and how it affects him and his battles throughout the rest of the series. He faced the same issues with trying to sell people on F91. I love F91 and the universe that Tomino tries to tell with it and it's expanded material in Formula Wars and Crossbones Gundam.

With all that in mind, a lot of stuff was cut out and there were pacing problems as multiple plot points would be addressed at the same time, or briefly mentioned to work within the limitations given. Reconguista's broadcast had to suffer for that and at times would be difficult to follow if you aren't keenly paying attention, which is where a large majority of the complaints came from.

It by and large manages to be a beautifully animated work, and a fun one to watch as well and I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated the amount of detail and care that was put into it. I enjoyed Orphans week on week, but the emotional investment wasn't there and the amount of plotholes as well as how the plot was paced made Orphans fun to joke about and follow, but not fun to watch because the execution wasn't good. I appreciate the different dynamics it tries to tackle, subverting Gundam tropes, but it ultimately strays too far away from what it means to be a Gundam series and becomes more of that modern, flavor of the week robot anime that people like now.

I get why people have issues with Reconguista, but knowing the troubled production cycle and the amount of passion Tomino had for Reconguista made my appreciate all the little details and how fun the series was after going through it a second and third time.

Reconguista isn't dead, and Tomino still wants to give the series a high quality, theatrical release it deserves. Alongside with being able to revisit and realize past drafts that were cut from some of his past works that I will not mention any further.

/Changes Twilight Axis from "Must watch" to "See first two episodes"

Twilight Axis is streaming for Gundam Fan Club members on the smartphone app in a couple months, IP locked, and it's subscription at 600円 a month based for those who want to watch at release rather than wait a couple weeks per episode.

Overseas is not able to watch it until Bandai chooses to stream on youtube or whatever platform they choose to instead.

The source content itself is serialized on the same platform, so you need the app to be able to read the chapters as they release anyway.

It's part of a new budgeting strategy as we shift towards higher quality and budget products rather than stressing out our staff on the strict weekly broadcasting requirements and producer demands.
 
This was a good ending, iok's death was great. and i loved the epilogue

i don't think a sequel is needed , however i could dip a prequel like the calamity war or something.
 

Shun

Member
Ew and double Ew.

Well at least I made it a couple episodes into Delta, Recon G I watched the first episode and it was so boring I couldn't tell you a single thing that happened. There was a girl with pink hair or something? I dunno.

Delta's songs were catchy at least. I need to get once of those big kits, I got the smaller one and liked it besides it being sticker hell.

The Bandai kits for the VF-31 Siegfried from Macross Delta are all very great kits with good color separation and one of the better transformation gimmicks.

You get a whole set of waterslide decals to use rather than foil seals, so that isn't a problem whatsoever.

I really recommend getting it. The Draken, requires some paining because of the molding process, but it's just as good of a kit.

Here is my own personal 1/72 Bandai VF-31.





You can check your local hobby store as they are still in stock at a suggested retail price of 5,600円 but they regularly go on sale for as low as 3,000円 for very good MG sized kits.
 
What's the obsession with the UC? Thunderbolt is great but isn't Reconguista set super far into the UC? Aren't they running out of space to explore and continuously add more stories? It seems that they'll be more and more contrived rather natural progressions of the timeline and often don't make sense mechanically in relation to other stories in the saga, e.g. 0083 Stardust Memory vs Zeta. I wish that they'd create a new universe set it in it's infancy...similar to Gundam 00 but actually used to be the foundation of something long lasting. Bandai and Sunrise seem so fixated on selling people on the UC and only introduce a new universe for brief periods to allow their writers more time to shoehorn a story into the Universal Century. Honestly, I think Gundam needs a hard reset to rid itself of all its tropes and introduce novel ideas to the franchise.

This probably isn't the popular opinion here but oh well, I don't care.

I believe this was the goal of SEED/Destiny iirc (Or at least it was meant to be a modern re-interpretation of UC). But a whole load of internal dramas ended their hopes for that.
 

Shun

Member
I believe this was the goal of SEED/Destiny iirc. But a whole load of internal dramas ended their hopes for that.

And SEED largely succeeded with how popular the universe, characters, and kits are.

It doesn't get new animated works as of late, but the number of expansions that the series has been going on for over 10 years now. Bandai succeeded in expanding and making SEED popular and continuing to expand it year on year.
 

Allonym

There should be more tampons in gaming
I believe this was the goal of SEED/Destiny iirc. But a whole load of internal dramas ended their hopes for that.
I'm glad Seed didn't become that. It was a weird juxtaposition. You had these pretty characters suffering these really gruesome deaths. I don't know, I just didn't like the animation style or the fact Kira was engineered to be the "ultimate coordinator" rather than him just being skillful, it was just too unbelievable how'd he pull some of his wins out of his ass. It was OK as a series but I crave something that's more than just OG Gundam in a then modern skin.
 
I can agree that IBO would have been better with more action, but they went out of their way to explain the world a lot more in most places. Still was too many sides and important people imo. It was hard to tell the crime families and CEOs apart aside from their main guy.

I think there is plenty to like all in all. Tekkadan's side is probably the hardest to follow since they had no seemingly ultimate goal despite being involved with so many people. McGilly and Gallio were great at the end. In general I would have liked to get a bit more back story behind people like Rustal and why Macky in particular did not like him. He just kinda showed up as the obvious detractor to him and got accepted as such. -shrug-
 

Rymuth

Member
I believe this was the goal of SEED/Destiny iirc (Or at least it was meant to be a modern re-interpretation of UC). But a whole load of internal dramas ended their hopes for that.
Some shots in SEED/Destiny were straight ripped out of UC (Kira kissing flay --> Amuro+Beltorchika )

It's for the best. I'd rather not have had Fukuda and his wife (may she rest in peace ) have anything more to do with Gundam
 

ramyeon

Member
I really enjoyed the whole second season of this, especially with how ambiguous and blurred the lines between bad and good were. It's really rare to see that in Gundam these days. Ending was perfect - I can't think of a better way they could have done it. It felt like the natural conclusion considering all events prior.

Blew me away and exceeded my expectations.
 
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