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More Pokemon Sun and Moon News in Sept 6th

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I am still baffled how people think Type: Null = Missingno.

The fuck?! This is as dumb as thinking Type: Null is a ripoff of Chimeramon.

Bill turning into a Pokemon, the power plant, the Pokemon Mansion, all of the failed laboratory experiments and genetically engineered Pokemon. It was a huge plot point in Gen I, and later gens focused moreso on mysticism (pantheons of gods) and naturalism.

uhh

the only "sci fi" thing you mentioned that is there is the mansion thing which is mewtwo-related

Bill turning into a pokemon is treated more as a gag than an actual science thing, the power plant, etc. have nothing to do with sci fi, and there are no actual "failed experiments" pokemon and there are no "genetic experiments" beside Mewtwo (no, the Ditto garbage is headcanon).

It's not even a huge plotpoint as it is all sidequest.

It feels less like an interpretation and more like a foggy memory.
 
I am still baffled how people think Type: Null = Missingno.
It's pretty simple. Missingno was essentially the error code for when the game tried to draw a pokemon from a number that wasn't assigned to a pokemon. Hence, MissingNo (Missing Number). It's a common error a computer can return when it bugs out or tries to access information that isn't there.Type:Null is another common computer error code. Whenever you type "Null" into a form on a website, it will usually result in an error, because whenever you leave it blank it will more often than not replace the blank with "null" since it can't register a non-name.

This was a news story earlier this year:

http://gizmodo.com/it-really-sucks-to-be-named-jennifer-null-1767159091

So yeah. The reference is pretty obvious. Even if it's not a direct or intentional nod, there is a similarity.
 

Sandfox

Member
I am still baffled how people think Type: Null = Missingno.

The fuck?! This is as dumb as thinking Type: Null is a ripoff of Chimeramon.



uhh

the only "sci fi" thing you mentioned that is there is the mansion thing which is mewtwo-related

Bill turning into a pokemon is treated more as a gag than an actual science thing, the power plant, etc. have nothing to do with sci fi, and there are no actual "failed experiments" pokemon and there are no "genetic experiments" beside Mewtwo (no, the Ditto garbage is headcanon).

It's not even a huge plotpoint as it is all sidequest.

It feels less like an interpretation and more like a foggy memory.
Yeah, an obvious assumption to me is that Type: Null is a failed recreation of Arceus, with it's name and different body parts being a result of the creators(which will probably end up being Aether Foundation) trying to duplicate Multitype.
 
What I'm more curious about is what Type:Null will say in the anime.

Gen I barely had a plot and none of these elements are anything more than background elements, many of which have tropes more in line with those found in JRPGs i.e. a character trapped in a different body being played off for comedy, an area whose design contrasts with the more lighthearted ones found elsewhere in the game, etc., that don't contribute to the plot in any meaningful manner. Heck, you could skip over the info in the Pokémon Mansion that hints at experiments both fruitful and futile that took place there.

It depends on whether you consider "plot" and the overall narrative to be the same thing, but I would say that across Gen1 and 2 (since it's all part of the same "plot") that it had a fairly great plot, and even if you don't include gen 2 it's definitely solid. I love every generation of Pokemon but plot has never been a strong point, and simply raising the metaphysical sakes in each game does not automatically equal a better plot. I would say that Gen 1 and 2 have superior plots to Gen 3, 4 and 6. Gen 5 I wouldn't say is "better" per se but it's definitely the best crafted story of the series.

Gen 1 is the story of a young kid trying to become champion, racing against his rival who is always one step ahead of him and stopping an evil crime organisation on the way. Team Rocket actually commits crimes surprisingly enough and they aren't removed from the game world in the way that later Teams would be. Sure you can skip the Pokemon Mansion but that's what's so great about Gen 1 and 2. The games let you explore and learn more about the world of your own volition. There is a huge difference in game aesthetic between discovering something and being told something. Videos released even today support this fact in terms of game storytelling. Show, Don't Tell. You have your Mechanics antagonist aka Blue who actually defeats you at your goal of becoming champion (i.e gets their first) and you have your Narrative Antagonist aka Giovanni who is a force of evil in the world and as far as characters in older pokemon games go is somewhat well developed.

Gen 2 is a true sequel. It's 3 years later, Team Rocket is trying desperately to recover but without a leader they just aren't what they used to be. They resort to more desperate measures like forcibly evolving pokemon to make up for their lack of leadership. Think of how cruel that is, it's not much short of indoctrination, or starving dogs to make them more ferocious. Your rival is the son of Giovanni and is a true jerk. He's a bad person, he steals a pokemon and is disgusted by the idea of weakness. He's probably one of the best developed rivals in all of the games and his arc actually shows growth. Team Rocket in both games are truly integrated into the world of the games. They feel like a part of the universe. They affect it and in turn affect you, the player.

All Teams in all games are arbitrary obstacles. Hell, all obstacles in Pokemon are arbitrary or we'd just level up and go fight the E4, but Gen 1 and 2 do the best job of making them not feel arbitrary. Snorlax blocking your path? Need to wake it up. You explore and find you need a pokeflute, cool. Mr Fuji has it? Sweet. Oh no, Mr Fuji has been kidnapped, better go sort that out. Exploration is a main theme of the game and it is built right into the design of Team Rocket and how you encounter them.

Gen 3, 4 and 6 are very much "Oh no. They are about to end the world. You! Player! Go Stop Them!" It's very ham-fisted and not at all subtle. At least Gen 5 has a moral ambiguity to it and real questions it asks of the player.

We already had a generation of main games pandering towards Gen I nostalgia/design. It's called X/Y. Give it a rest for the series 20th anniversary.

What? No. Gen 5 has more in common with Gen 1 than XY do. Many Gen 5's designs are very clearly intended to be reflections of the original Kanto pokemon.

Like... What on earth? XY are very clearly their own thing.
 
What? No. Gen 5 has more in common with Gen 1 than XY do. Many Gen 5's designs are very clearly intended to be reflections of the original Kanto pokemon.

Like... What on earth? XY are very clearly their own thing.

Their own thing with their own Snorlax/PokeFlute quest, Charmander/Squirtle/Bulbasaur option, Kanto Legendary Bird capture and the very Mewtwo post-game battle
 
Their own thing with their own Snorlax/PokeFlute quest, Charmander/Squirtle/Bulbasaur option, Kanto Legendary Bird capture and the very Mewtwo post-game battle

A handful of nods is not pandering. The Kanto starters were a vessel for Mega Stones. The Kanto legendaries aren't available outside of events since HeartGold and SoulSilver.

The only one i'll give you is Snorlax/Pokeflute. They could've easily found another pokemon with another method of removing.

And even then, so what? They also had plenty of references to other games. All pokemon games reference the previous games.

And what is wrong with referencing Kanto apart from the modern thing where hating on Gen 1 is cool? Does Santalune Forest being a similar shape to Viridian Forest make it bad? Is it less cool because it copied filthy Kanto?

The XY games were the first truly 3D games in the series. They were very clearly designed with new players in mind, as well as reintroducing older players who may have stopped. It has the most varied pokedex of anygame, includes so many new and exciting features as well as a couple familiar ones and is its own unique game all at the same time. It's a celebration of pokemon as a whole, and pokemon as a whole happens to include gen 1.
 

kirby_fox

Banned
What? No. Gen 5 has more in common with Gen 1 than XY do. Many Gen 5's designs are very clearly intended to be reflections of the original Kanto pokemon.

Like... What on earth? XY are very clearly their own thing.

A reason I hated Gen 5 was because it felt like it was trying too hard to be a reboot, and it just failed to truly be one. I nicknamed a lot of the designs as what it was obvious they were based on with a 2 after it...I don't even know a lot of their names. The issue with XY is that it's full of Gen 1 Pokemon and they get a lot of the Mega forms and focus on them (Mewtwo and Charizard getting 2 Megas, both from Gen 1). The story I don't think really had a focus on them, and the new ones did their own thing sure-- it was just Megas and a lot of Gen 1 being able to be found somewhat easily.

Now you have Alolan forms currently being focused on Gen 1 again, and they want to see other options for forms.
 
A reason I hated Gen 5 was because it felt like it was trying too hard to be a reboot, and it just failed to truly be one. I nicknamed a lot of the designs as what it was obvious they were based on with a 2 after it...I don't even know a lot of their names. The issue with XY is that it's full of Gen 1 Pokemon and they get a lot of the Mega forms and focus on them (Mewtwo and Charizard getting 2 Megas, both from Gen 1). The story I don't think really had a focus on them, and the new ones did their own thing sure-- it was just Megas and a lot of Gen 1 being able to be found somewhat easily.

Now you have Alolan forms currently being focused on Gen 1 again, and they want to see other options for forms.
Yeah the main thing that bothers me is that GF always comes up with these different concepts such as Baby pokemon and evolutions from previous gen's, mega evolutions and now Alolan forms but they abandon them relatively quickly. The problem for me is that they introduce these concepts and use predominantly gen 1 pokemon. When they introduce the new concept they rely heavily on Gen 1 and then abandon the concept before applying it to other generations of pokemon. Gen 3, 4, 5 and 6 could benefit from some love.

For example here are the amount of baby pokemon created in later generations that originated from each gen:
Gen 1- 10
Gen 2- 4
Gen 3- 2

Evolutions introduced in later gens:
Gen 1- 22
Gen 2- 8
Gen 3- 5

Mega Evolutions:
Gen 1- 15
Gen 2- 9
Gen 3- 20
Gen 4- 5
Gen 5- 1
Gen 6- 1

Now with Alolan forms we've only seen gen 1 pokemon and leaks seem to point in that direction as well. We've also heard nothing about mega forms yet.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
I am curious if a list exist which only shows the added babys and evolutions to Gen 1 and 2.
The usual wikis dont seem to have a seperate list for that...
 
I am curious if a list exist which only shows the added babys and evolutions to Gen 1 and 2.
The usual wikis dont seem to have a seperate list for that...
Baby pokemon added to Gen 1:
Cleffa
Igglybuff
Pichu
Tyrogue
Smoochum
Magby
Elekid
Mime Jr.
Happiny

Gen 2:
Azurill
Wynaut
Bonsly
Mantyke

Cross-generation evolutions in Gen 1:
Crobat
Bellossom
Slowking
Politoed
Magnezone
Steelix
Hitmontop(kind of)
Lickilicky
Rhyperior
Blissey
Tangrowth
Kingdra
Scizor
Magmortar
Electivire
Espeon
Umbreon
Glaceon
Leafeon
Sylveon
Porygon 2

Gen 2:
Togekiss
Ambipom
Yanmega
Porygon Z
Honchkrow
Mismagius
Gliscor
Weavile
Mamoswine

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_with_cross-generational_evolutions
 

Sandfox

Member
A lot of the new evolutions are based on popularity, and a ton of them were created in gen 2 so it leans towards first gen, though second gen has received a lot of love itself in gen 4 and to a far lesser extent 3. Gen 3 got 20 mega evolutions(more than any other generation), as well as the primal reversions. It seems likely that as nostalgia grows and we start getting things like the gen 4 remakes, we'll start seeing a larger number of new stuff for those Pokemon. Right now the Alola forms seem to be focused on gen 1, but based on the reception they seem to be getting, I would expect other generations to get the same treatment.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
It's pretty simple. Missingno was essentially the error code for when the game tried to draw a pokemon from a number that wasn't assigned to a pokemon. Hence, MissingNo (Missing Number). It's a common error a computer can return when it bugs out or tries to access information that isn't there.Type:Null is another common computer error code. Whenever you type "Null" into a form on a website, it will usually result in an error, because whenever you leave it blank it will more often than not replace the blank with "null" since it can't register a non-name.

This was a news story earlier this year:

http://gizmodo.com/it-really-sucks-to-be-named-jennifer-null-1767159091

So yeah. The reference is pretty obvious. Even if it's not a direct or intentional nod, there is a similarity.

Missingno. was less of an error handler and more the result of there not being one. The Gen I games dutifully attempted to load any Pokémon you asked for, even if the data was just junk. The name was only ever displayed because it happened to be in some of the invalid slots.

Also, while null is definitely associated with various common exceptions seen in software, the name "Type: Null" doesn't really evoke that. The formulation of the name doesn't suggest an actual error, only that information is missing.
 
A handful of nods is not pandering. The Kanto starters were a vessel for Mega Stones. The Kanto legendaries aren't available outside of events since HeartGold and SoulSilver.

The only one i'll give you is Snorlax/Pokeflute. They could've easily found another pokemon with another method of removing.

And even then, so what? They also had plenty of references to other games. All pokemon games reference the previous games.

And what is wrong with referencing Kanto apart from the modern thing where hating on Gen 1 is cool? Does Santalune Forest being a similar shape to Viridian Forest make it bad? Is it less cool because it copied filthy Kanto?

The XY games were the first truly 3D games in the series. They were very clearly designed with new players in mind, as well as reintroducing older players who may have stopped. It has the most varied pokedex of anygame, includes so many new and exciting features as well as a couple familiar ones and is its own unique game all at the same time. It's a celebration of pokemon as a whole, and pokemon as a whole happens to include gen 1.

There is nothing wrong with pandering to gen 1. But to think that XY didn't try to pander to that specific Gen is being unrealistic, specially with Charizard and Mewtwo being the only ones with two Megas.

A lot of us just wish there were more attention to the rest of the series and not just Gen 1, like with Alolan Form so far.
 

Sandfox

Member
There is nothing wrong with pandering to gen 1. But to think that XY didn't try to pander to that specific Gen is being unrealistic, specially with Charizard and Mewtwo being the only ones with two Megas.

A lot of us just wish there were more attention to the rest of the series and not just Gen 1, like with Alolan Form so far.

That has more to do with them being super popular than anything else, which is why both of them are in games like Pokken and Smash as well as other recent media presence.
 
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