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[Celcius]

I remember reading about this the other day. I don't see why people are clowning on Leonidas... this is interesting and there's nothing wrong with spreading awareness. Hopefully this doesn't become a big issue, as I was considering upgrading to a 7800x3d next month and asus motherboards are all I buy. Hmm maybe I should hold off for now...

 

[nightmare-slain]

Another day of using my PC. Everything looks good and nothing has exploded or caught fire. That's 4 days now. Still could detonate so we'll see!

 

[Larogue]

Ouch

 

[poppabk]

Another day of using my PC. Everything looks good and nothing has exploded or caught fire. That's 4 days now. Still could detonate so we'll see!

I have a 6900xt and updated drivers. Pray for me and the people within 3 city blocks.

 

[SolidQ]

This is what warranties are for.

if not Asus MB, you should be fine

 

[FingerBang]

I finished building my new rig yesterday with a 7950x3D and an ASUS ROG CROSSHAIR X670E HERO

Will I survive this like I survived the pandemic of burning 4090s? Only time will tell

 

[KungFucius]

Seems like it is definitely an Asus issue. Not seen anyone mention other boards having problems. And it seems to be X670E boards in particular.

Asus is forcing everyone to use the latest BIOS version as of the 21st. You can't download any previous versions anymore. I've only checked the download pages for the B650E-E and the X670E Hero. Not sure if they have pulled downloads for all AM5 boards. I can't be bothered checking.

Hopefully hear more soon if it turns out to be a more widespread issue. So far it seems only a couple people on Reddit.

Good. I fucking hate ASUS. Assholes charge 200 bucks for a factory OC and they have 4080s that cost 50 bucks less than a 4090. How much more than typical Mobos did these dudes pay to get their CPU fried?

 

[winjer]

Suspicions are now falling on old bios, so update yours.

AMD Ryzen 7000X3D CPUs are burning out for no apparent reason

We're big fans of the Ryzen 7 7800X3D, praising the 3D V-Cache CPU for its speed and power efficiency. But not everyone is enjoying AMD's recent release....

www.techspot.com

"I have always thought of EXPO/XMP as "verified/approved" settings for memory, and not so much an overclock. Especially since the QVL reflects that. This is not the case, and in fact the rated settings also vary by CPU, so just because the QVL says 6000/30-38-38-96, does not mean that it should work across CPUs," wrote Speedrookie.

"With this in mind, as I state above, I purposely went back to a BIOS version which POSTed with EXPO which was not an approved version for X3D series CPUs and chalked this up to BIOS instability rather than a potential intention by the BIOS engineers. So for people on a similar build, I'd say just make sure to update your BIOS and forgo EXPO for the time being until we know things are stable and working as intended. The cause here is still speculative, however may be a good safety measure to take."

And this is supported by Asus recent actions

 

[Celcius]

The bios notes saying "7000X7D" doesn't inspire confidence.
Yesterday I just happen to be looking at the support page for another mobo and it said "7000X6D".

 

[Buggy Loop]

Seems like a fuckup on the board partner's end. Asus & Gigabyte specifically.

https://www.igorslab.de/en/pin-anal...-pins-supply-the-vddcr-cpu-core-power-supply/

In the comments :

"I was able to reproduce the problem with me. It is due to the EXPO parameters that AMD specifies. Asus and Gigabyte have implemented these 1:1 without paying attention to the new X3d CCD. While "X" cpus tolerate higher voltages, the X3D die off one after the other because they are much more sensitive.

As soon as Expo is enabled, the CPU SOC and CPU VDDIO/MC voltages increase to 1.36-1.4, sometimes boosting to 1.5V in Windows, causing instant death on the X3d. If you set all voltages manually to the correct values, there are no problems."

 

[StereoVsn]

Current page

There's lots posting findings, benchmarks, settings, all about the X3D parts.

Thanks, kind of nervous now with 7800x3D and the Asus board. Will flash to newest BIOS tonight.

 

[StereoVsn]

Seems like a fuckup on the board partner's end. Asus & Gigabyte specifically.

https://www.igorslab.de/en/pin-anal...-pins-supply-the-vddcr-cpu-core-power-supply/

In the comments :

"I was able to reproduce the problem with me. It is due to the EXPO parameters that AMD specifies. Asus and Gigabyte have implemented these 1:1 without paying attention to the new X3d CCD. While "X" cpus tolerate higher voltages, the X3D die off one after the other because they are much more sensitive.

As soon as Expo is enabled, the CPU SOC and CPU VDDIO/MC voltages increase to 1.36-1.4, sometimes boosting to 1.5V in Windows, causing instant death on the X3d. If you set all voltages manually to the correct values, there are no problems."

So if you force RAM to run at 1.35 it should be ok in theory?

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Wait, we can do more. Lets throw in a Gigabyte PSU that was burning up from couple years back!

And record the video on a Galaxy Note 7

 

[Celcius]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1882...am5-motherboards-for-ryzen-7000x3d-processors

MSI Addresses CPU Voltages on AM5 Motherboards for Ryzen 7000X3D Processors​

"In response to recent reports of AMD's Ryzen 7000X3D processors being damaged, MSI has announced a wave of firmware updates to address potential issues. The highlight of MSI's new wave of BIOS versions for its AM5 motherboards is that the company is further locking down the voltage controls for X3D chips, removing support for positive offset voltages. Going forward, it will only be possible to use negative offset voltages on X3D chips, ensuring that the sensitive V-Cache-equipped X3D chips can't be overvolted and put at risk of damage."

 

[Reallink]

Suspicions are now falling on old bios, so update yours.

AMD Ryzen 7000X3D CPUs are burning out for no apparent reason

We're big fans of the Ryzen 7 7800X3D, praising the 3D V-Cache CPU for its speed and power efficiency. But not everyone is enjoying AMD's recent release....

www.techspot.com

And this is supported by Asus recent actions

AMD themselves only ship EXPO RAM kits to reviewers, and built all the subsidized retailer firesell bundles with EXPO RAM kits. This claim that its not "official" or technically "supported" is hilariously stupid. The CPU is literally designed from the ground up (the 1:1 Infinity Cache Ratio) for EXPO RAM. It's a completely different product in a completely different performance category without it.

 

[Celcius]

Interestingly, non-X3d CPUs are affected as well. For example, here's someone's 7700X (with asrock motherboard):

 

[FingerBang]

One of the first things I've done is update the bios, though I did run my CPU with the older version and EXPO on at first. It didn't seem to have caused any damage since I used the PC after the bios update and played some Far Cry 6.

I can confirm that with a 7950x3D, latest bios, DDR5 6000MHz with CL30 and a 4090, that game is still a piece of shit. Smooth like butter though!

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Well shit.

Yeh, I'm going to hold fire for the moment but I'm getting very impatient considering I've now been sat on a 4080 for months for a dedicated sim rig build.

Wanted to get everything up and running by the end of the month ideally so unless theres a quick resolution to this it will have to be Intel.

Hopefully this is just a case of user error somehow in a similar fashion to the power connectors on the Nvidia 4xxx series.

Why not just go with Intel? The difference in performance between the 7800X3D and 13900K isn't so different, unless there are other factors you are considering.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Whatever BIOS my ASUS B650E-E shipped with was straight up not dealing with the 7950X3D or my g.skill RAM (expo). Couldn't get it to post at all.

Updated to 1408 by doing the BIOS flashback by pressing the button on the back of the board. At the time this was the latest stable BIOS. There was a Beta but I can't remember the version.

So I was on 1408 for whatever the time was it took me to install Windows and set it up so about 3 hours. Did no stress tests, gaming, and didn't even enable EXPO.

Friday morning I noticed BIOS 1409 had released and all others except Beta 1410 had been deleted. Immediately upgraded to it and this is when I enabled EXPO. Used my PC for 9 hours on Friday, 4 hours Saturday, 3 hours Sunday, 1 hour today. Done a mix of gaming and stress tests.

Hopefully it was just a BIOS issue. I promise I'll let you know if my PC kills itself lol but it's been running great all weekend and today.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Good. I fucking hate ASUS. Assholes charge 200 bucks for a factory OC and they have 4080s that cost 50 bucks less than a 4090. How much more than typical Mobos did these dudes pay to get their CPU fried?

I have an Asus board but a b650e-e. Seems the issue is with X670E boards. I really wanted the x670e hero but it is about £300 more than the one I bought which is the top tier B650E board. I paid £365 for my board which is actually cheaper than what I paid for my previous intel gigabyte board. So the x670e hero was £660!! I couldn't justify that for some extra pcie lanes and usb4 ports.

Going from the b650e-e to x670e-e was about an extra £145!

I honestly thought Asus was a good brand. I have some other Asus products (monitor/router) and thought I'll get an Asus board. I had issues with the last 3 Gigabyte board I've bought. That said, I can't say I'm unhappy with my Asus board. No major issues with it so far. Hopefully nothing happens!

 

[Reallink]

Good. I fucking hate ASUS. Assholes charge 200 bucks for a factory OC and they have 4080s that cost 50 bucks less than a 4090. How much more than typical Mobos did these dudes pay to get their CPU fried?

They can get away with it cause they're the only AIB shipping models with Dual HDMI. A moronic oversight on competing board partner's part given the popularity of LG's OLED's as computer monitors. Turns out a lot of people buying $1400+ GPU's aren't hooking them up to shitty little 27" monitors with Displayport.

 

[lmimmfn]

i flashed my X670E Prime Wifi Pro with 1409 Bios today and set the mem speed to auto for now, will see how this pans out before changing the memory speed back.

 

[Black_Stride]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1882...am5-motherboards-for-ryzen-7000x3d-processors

MSI Addresses CPU Voltages on AM5 Motherboards for Ryzen 7000X3D Processors​

"In response to recent reports of AMD's Ryzen 7000X3D processors being damaged, MSI has announced a wave of firmware updates to address potential issues. The highlight of MSI's new wave of BIOS versions for its AM5 motherboards is that the company is further locking down the voltage controls for X3D chips, removing support for positive offset voltages. Going forward, it will only be possible to use negative offset voltages on X3D chips, ensuring that the sensitive V-Cache-equipped X3D chips can't be overvolted and put at risk of damage."

MSI on point.


*Prays for AsRock users.

 

[winjer]

AMD themselves only ship EXPO RAM kits to reviewers, and built all the subsidized retailer firesell bundles with EXPO RAM kits. This claim that its not "official" or technically "supported" is hilariously stupid. The CPU is literally designed from the ground up (the 1:1 Infinity Cache Ratio) for EXPO RAM. It's a completely different product in a completely different performance category without it.

EXPO ups the SoC voltages and this could be a problem for heat.
But the thing is most motherboard manufacturers have pushed higher clocks and voltages on motherboards, to get the performance crown in benchmarks.
This has been going on for decades. I remember articles from the 2000 where Anandtech or Techreport found that some motherboard manufacturers would up the FSB clock speed o Pentium and Athlon CPUs.
Today's CPUs have their performance limited by power, so some motherboard manufacturers just push the power envelop so the CPU can boost higher.

Having a low SoC voltage can mean less package power available for CPU cores. So motherboard manufacturers have an incentive to have this setting a bit higher.
On most CPUs this is not a big issue, but with the 3Dvcache serving as a blanket on top of the CPU, this can mean too much heat to dissipate.

 

[nightmare-slain]

I checked my CPU SoC and it was at around 1.35V. BIOS is fully up to date (Asus B650E-E) and as far as overclocking goes everything as it stock except I have EXPO enabled (6000CL32, 1.4V). I went and manually set a SoC voltage of 1.2 while keeping EXPO enabled. According to HWinfo there are two different sensors for SoC but they are generally at 1.19-1.23V.

Ran some Cinebench and Prime95 and it's all stable. Cinebench maxed out at 86C with ~155W max power on the CPU. I actually got a higher score than last time! When I ran it on Friday I got about 33k in the multi score but now it's at 35k. Normal usage is seeing lower temperatures and power consumption! Before the CPU could easily run at ~50-55C with just Firefox and Spotify open and power consumption at ~40-50W. Now, the CPU is staying at around 41C and power consumption is as low as 30W but can still bounce up to 40-50W.

If your SoC voltage is at anything above 1.25V then go into BIOS and manually set it to 1.2-1.25V. At first I set it to 1.25V but thought fuck it let's try 1.2V first and it seems to be working fine. I've only ran Cinebench/Prime95 so far so I'll see how it goes playing games over the coming days. Board makers are going to set the voltage high to be "safe" to run any CPU.

I'm not sure about the RAM voltage at 1.4V. That's what it's advertised to run at. I'm just going to leave it as is for now. I think the main thing is stopped the board applying a generous amount of voltage to the SoC just because you enabled EXPO.

 

[GHG]

Why not just go with Intel? The difference in performance between the 7800X3D and 13900K isn't so different, unless there are other factors you are considering.

Not a fan of locking myself into a dead socket.

If I go AM5 then there are potentially 2 further CPU releases that I can benefit from without having to buy a new motherboard.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Why not just go with Intel? The difference in performance between the 7800X3D and 13900K isn't so different, unless there are other factors you are considering.

This is my first AMD pc. I was going to go intel again but the 13900K runs hot as fuck and uses way more power.

The new intel CPU's have an issue with the cpu mount so it doesn't make good contact with some coolers. A lot of people buy a contact frame to replace the mounting bracket on their motherboards. Even with this it's hit or miss whether it helps. Some people say it helps and some say their temps don't improve. You can find GamerNexus videos about this issue if you want to know more.

Even with proper contact to a cooler you still basically need an AIO or custom loop and even then it will still run hot. Air coolers like the Noctua NHD15 can't handle the cpu. In things like cinebench the 13900K will start thermal throttling within seconds.

As for power consumption...you can run it at about 250W by tweaking some settings but the cpu can hit close to 500W in some situations.

A 7950X3D by comparison can give you similar performance while running cooler and using less power. Max temp I've seen is 86C while running Cinebench and never went over 155W. In games it sits at about 60-70C while using around 80-90W.

 

[Otre]

Nice to see those old nvidia GPU memes can be recycled.

 

[OverHeat]

So do I keep expo on or off???

 

[nightmare-slain]

Asus just released new BIOS. It limits voltage to 1.3V to protect the CPU and Motherboard. Not sure about other board makers.

So do I keep expo on or off???

If I understand it correctly (don't take my word for anything because I am still learning how all this works) EXPO itself is safe to be enabled but the issue is that when EXPO is enabled it then makes the motherboard give the SoC too much voltage.

For example, with completely stock settings meaning no EXPO then my BIOS is saying the 7950X3D SoC is getting about 1.1V

Enabling just EXPO, I was seeing SoC voltage at about 1.35V.

What I've done is manually set SoC voltage to 1.2V and after running Cinebench/Prime95 it is stable. So my motherboard was pumping an extra 0.15V through the SoC when it wasn't needed.

Depending on what RAM you have and how lucky you got with the Silicon Lottery the amount of SoC voltage you need will differ. I've read that a voltage of 1.2-1.25V is recommended and should be more than enough for 6000 RAM and a "bad" CPU. I was going to do 1.25V at first but went with 1.2V and it seems stable so far but it was just a quick 10 min multi test in Cinebench and about half an hour of Prime95. Haven't played any games yet or used the PC for an extended amount of time so I'll see how it goes. I can bump it up by 0.01V if there is any instability.

If you have 6000+ speed RAM then I don't know what the recommended voltages are. I'd recommend setting it to 1.2V and see how it goes then if there are any issues then slightly increase voltage. It's better to start off voltage low instead of risking giving it too much (which seems to be what is causing all these problems...excessive voltages) Or you could downclock the RAM to 6000 because I really don't think you need any more than that for these CPUs.

Another option is just to keep EXPO disabled, wait for more BIOS updates and let this whole thing blow over.

It seems right now there are new BIOS versions being released. Asus has just released a new one that says it limits SoC to 1.3V to protect CPU and motherboard.

 

[lmimmfn]

Asus just released new BIOS. It limits voltage to 1.3V to protect the CPU and Motherboard. Not sure about other board makers.


If I understand it correctly (don't take my word for anything because I am still learning how all this works) EXPO itself is safe to be enabled but the issue is that when EXPO is enabled it then makes the motherboard give the SoC too much voltage.

For example, with completely stock settings meaning no EXPO then my BIOS is saying the 7950X3D SoC is getting about 1.1V

Enabling just EXPO, I was seeing SoC voltage at about 1.35V.

What I've done is manually set SoC voltage to 1.2V and after running Cinebench/Prime95 it is stable. So my motherboard was pumping an extra 0.15V through the SoC when it wasn't needed.

Depending on what RAM you have and how lucky you got with the Silicon Lottery the amount of SoC voltage you need will differ. I've read that a voltage of 1.2-1.25V is recommended and should be more than enough for 6000 RAM and a "bad" CPU. I was going to do 1.25V at first but went with 1.2V and it seems stable so far but it was just a quick 10 min multi test in Cinebench and about half an hour of Prime95. Haven't played any games yet or used the PC for an extended amount of time so I'll see how it goes. I can bump it up by 0.01V if there is any instability.

If you have 6000+ speed RAM then I don't know what the recommended voltages are. I'd recommend setting it to 1.2V and see how it goes then if there are any issues then slightly increase voltage. It's better to start off voltage low instead of risking giving it too much (which seems to be what is causing all these problems...excessive voltages) Or you could downclock the RAM to 6000 because I really don't think you need any more than that for these CPUs.

Another option is just to keep EXPO disabled, wait for more BIOS updates and let this whole thing blow over.

It seems right now there are new BIOS versions being released. Asus has just released a new one that says it limits SoC to 1.3V to protect CPU and motherboard.

I must grab the latest bios.

I tried earlier to reduce SOC voltage on my Asus X670E Prime WiFi Pro with Bios 1409 but it wasn't editable, options were auto, manual(couldn't change) and offset(not editable)

Regardless of them limiting to 1.3v would prefer to go to 1.25 or 1.2 if stable.

 

[nightmare-slain]

I must grab the latest bios.

I tried earlier to reduce SOC voltage on my Asus X670E Prime WiFi Pro with Bios 1409 but it wasn't editable, options were auto, manual(couldn't change) and offset(not editable)

Regardless of them limiting to 1.3v would prefer to go to 1.25 or 1.2 if stable.

That's strange. I can only think that maybe there is another setting overriding them. This might sound stupid but did you try typing in the boxes? because I actually thought it wasn't working for me when I clicked on it. I guess I was expecting a list of values to come up because that's how it worked on my Gigabyte board. once I used my keyboard to go down to the box and started typing it then it worked.

Wait for the new BIOS (I think the pages are still updating) and try it again or if you feel comfortable sticking with the 1.3V limit then forget about it.

 

[Puscifer]

5800X3D stay winning

 

[lmimmfn]

That's strange. I can only think that maybe there is another setting overriding them. This might sound stupid but did you try typing in the boxes? because I actually thought it wasn't working for me when I clicked on it. I guess I was expecting a list of values to come up because that's how it worked on my Gigabyte board. once I used my keyboard to go down to the box and started typing it then it worked.

Wait for the new BIOS (I think the pages are still updating) and try it again or if you feel comfortable sticking with the 1.3V limit then forget about it.

Thanks, no, wasn't editable(no dropdown and clicking the voltage and manually punching numbers on the kb did nothing), will wait for the BIOS update and mess around with it then.

 

[FingerBang]

Happy to see the new bios. I'm going to update tomorrow first thing, hoping this fixes the issue for good.

 

[lmimmfn]

Nice one, I see its available for my ASUS mobo now, will update tomorrow evening, hopefully its stable, last bios update prevented my mouse working with my KVM.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Still not seeing a new BIOS for my Asus B650E-E.

Off topic, but is anyone with a 7000 series CPU having issues getting into the BIOS? I try pressing down F2 or DEL but it does nothing and boots straight into Windows. There is no display output until the login screen for Windows comes up.

I need to clear CMOS and then it shows the boot screen and says press F2/DEL and I can get in. It sucks I need to do this and of course it means I need to reconfigure everything from scratch.

I think it's an issue with the GPU. Not necessarily the GPU itself. It was working fine on my other build. I've tried various things but can't seem to figure it out.

 

[baphomet]

Still not seeing a new BIOS for my Asus B650E-E.

Off topic, but is anyone with a 7000 series CPU having issues getting into the BIOS? I try pressing down F2 or DEL but it does nothing and boots straight into Windows. There is no display output until the login screen for Windows comes up.

I need to clear CMOS and then it shows the boot screen and says press F2/DEL and I can get in. It sucks I need to do this and of course it means I need to reconfigure everything from scratch.

I think it's an issue with the GPU. Not necessarily the GPU itself. It was working fine on my other build. I've tried various things but can't seem to figure it out.

Some keyboards won't start taking inputs quick enough to get you into the bios.

 

[nightmare-slain]

B650E-E from Asus now has beta 1412 bios. I'll be installing that later today.

Some keyboards won't start taking inputs quick enough to get you into the bios.

This keyboard was working fine with my old board. I'll try my old keyboards and see if they do anything.

I don't get any video output at all during boot. It's only when I get to the login screen that it detects a signal. I'm using DisplayPort so I guess I'll try moving over to HDMI.

 

[baphomet]

B650E-E from Asus now has beta 1412 bios. I'll be installing that later today.


This keyboard was working fine with my old board. I'll try my old keyboards and see if they do anything.

I don't get any video output at all during boot. It's only when I get to the login screen that it detects a signal. I'm using DisplayPort so I guess I'll try moving over to HDMI.

If you had a boot delay or didn't have fast boot on the last board, the new one may be booting too quickly to get the inputs.

I've definitely had to use an old keyboard to get into the bios more than once.

 

[nightmare-slain]

If you had a boot delay or didn't have fast boot on the last board, the new one may be booting too quickly to get the inputs.

I've definitely had to use an old keyboard to get into the bios more than once.

Thanks, I'll mess about with it more once I update to the new BIOS.

 

[lmimmfn]

Thanks, I'll mess about with it more once I update to the new BIOS.

Keep hammering del/f2 from when you power on/reset and you should get into the bios. Sometimes I have to restart twice before getting in.

 

[Xcell Miguel]

Thanks, I'll mess about with it more once I update to the new BIOS.

Also from Windows 10 and 11's advanced boot you can tell it to restart to the UEFI BIOS.

Or you can use this command : shutdown /r /fw /t 0

 

[nightmare-slain]

Updated to the latest Asus BIOS 1412. SoC voltage with EXPO enabled is now at 1.24-1.27 (there are two different sensors). Was originally ~1.35-1.37 i can't remember the exact numbers.

Keep hammering del/f2 from when you power on/reset and you should get into the bios. Sometimes I have to restart twice before getting in.

I've tried many times but it does nothing. Goes right into Windows every time unless I reset the BIOS.

Also from Windows 10 and 11's advanced boot you can tell it to restart to the UEFI BIOS.

Or you can use this command : shutdown /r /fw /t 0

That doesn't work either. I can get into the advanced boot menu and select to go into UEFI bios but it still boots into Windows.

Haven't tried that command though. I'll see if that works.

EDIT: the command didn't work. the problem is with Displayport cable. Put a HDMI cable into my GPU and got into BIOS no problem. It's not ideal but at least I know how to work around it now and it's much easier than having to reset the CMOS all the time.

 

[FingerBang]

Updated to the beta bios on my x670e ROG Crosshair Hero and yeah, the soc voltage with EXPO II enabled is around 1.25. Will do some more tests later, but I think this should be fine.

Happy to see the quick response from both AMD and the MoBo manufacturers and none of the "this is overclock so it's not covered by warranty" bs I expected.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Updated to the beta bios on my x670e ROG Crosshair Hero and yeah, the soc voltage with EXPO II enabled is around 1.25. Will do some more tests later, but I think this should be fine.

Happy to see the quick response from both AMD and the MoBo manufacturers and none of the "this is overclock so it's not covered by warranty" bs I expected.

Are you having any problems with EXPO II on? I'm sticking with EXPO I as i've read II can cause issues.

1.25V should be more than enough. You'd probably be safe with 1.2V

 

[FingerBang]

Are you having any problems with EXPO II on? I'm sticking with EXPO I as i've read II can cause issues.

1.25V should be more than enough. You'd probably be safe with 1.2V

Not really, my system was stable with expo II with the previous bios as well. Got some GSkill CL30 6000MHz memory btw

 

[lmimmfn]

I'm on EXPO II also on my ASUS mobo(GSkill TridentZ 6000).

Just installed the latest bios, SOC voltage caps at 1.24 so im happy, set curve optimizer to -15 for now also.

 

[lmimmfn]

Also, AMD extended the promo for Jedi Survivor to 7800x3d cpus so contact your retailer to see if you can get a key https://www.amd.com/en/promotions/star-wars-bundle

 

[simpatico]

Buying AMD to save a few bucks. It gets ya every time.