MURICA, f*ck yeah

Sep 29, 2011
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It's pretty much guaranteed the apps won't be behind a paywall next gen on either system. This + indie apps + multitasking + cable integration and it's a wash. Xbox One wins the multimedia war handily.
Got a source on that? Why didn't they remove the paywalls on the 360?

Also, I don't think the rest of your little list overcomes even a 50$ price difference, let alone a 100$ difference. People are price-oriented, like it or not.
I mean, multitasking? Doesn't the PS4 also switch apps on the fly just as easily? Or do you mean the nifty snap feature?

And indie apps? You really think the mainstream "TV watching" consumer will care? Last I heard nobody even gave a fuck about the W8 app store on PC's.

Time will tell, I guess. But I don't think any of these "features" will hold as much sway as a 100$ bill.
 
Oct 26, 2007
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My take on why the PS4 will "win" (whatever that means)

1. Better Price
2. Better hardware (see No.1)
3. Better 1st Party Games/Studios
4. Better reputation at the moment
5. Better jap. support
6. PlayStation brand stronger (world-wide)
7. PS+ is better (price/value)
1 and 2 are legitimate issues with the One
3 is subjective and unknown (in regards to MS's studios)
4 is transient, public is fickle. MS has an upward battle here at the moment though.
5 is irrelevant
6 is legitimate
7 is definitely legitimate

If those are for you personally then alright. But looking at the market as a whole I stand by my list.
 
Jun 19, 2013
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Got a source on that? Why didn't they remove the paywalls on the 360?

Also, I don't think the rest of your little list overcomes even a 50$ price difference, let alone a 100$ difference. People are price-oriented, like it or not.
I mean, multitasking? Doesn't the PS4 also switch apps on the fly just as easily? Or do you mean the nifty snap feature?

And indie apps? You really think the mainstream "TV watching" consumer will care? Last I heard nobody even gave a fuck about the W8 app store on PC's.

Time will tell, I guess. But I don't think any of these "features" will hold as much sway as a 100$ bill.
CBOAT hinted at the app paywall cancellation. And also common sense. They're including the WinRT framework on the Xbox One, which will mean all Windows 8 apps can share code with Xbox One apps. I highly doubt they'll have a robust app ecosystem that spans multiple devices, and charge for access to that app ecosystem on one of the devices.

And you may not think that "my little list" justifies a $100 price differential but you probably don't represent the mass market. It remains to be seen whether MS can convince the mass market that the price differential is worth it, but between Kinect 2.0, exclusive OS features, indie apps, and 95% of the same games as PS4 they certainly have the tools to do so.

And yes I certainly believe having a robust app store on your TV is a value-add. Especially when your competition won't have anything but big publisher apps.
 

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2013
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CBOAT hinted at the app paywall cancellation. And also common sense. They're including the WinRT framework on the Xbox One, which will mean all Windows 8 apps can share code with Xbox One apps. I highly doubt they'll have a robust app ecosystem that spans multiple devices, and charge for access to that app ecosystem on one of the devices.

And you may not think that "my little list" justifies a $100 price differential but you probably don't represent the mass market. It remains to be seen whether MS can convince the mass market that the price differential is worth it, but between Kinect 2.0, exclusive OS features, indie apps, and 95% of the same games as PS4 they certainly have the tools to do so.

And yes I certainly believe having a robust app store on your TV is a value-add. Especially when your competition won't have anything but big publisher apps.
I don't recall CBOAT ever hinting at what the cancellation was about, just that one might happen. What makes you sure it was about a paywall?
 
Dec 6, 2004
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CBOAT hinted at the app paywall cancellation. And also common sense.
Guess we'll have to see then. Though if it's common sense, then why were they planned from the outset to be behind the pay wall? Why are we here, waiting/hoping to see if that gets cancelled? The problem is a lot of things that seem like common sense have taken a lot of time to be reversed, corrected or clarified.

And you may not think that "my little list" justifies a $100 price differential but you probably don't represent the mass market. It remains to be seen whether MS can convince the mass market that the price differential is worth it, but between Kinect 2.0, exclusive OS features, indie apps, and 95% of the same games as PS4 they certainly have the tools to do so.
Your example of someone who might find the XBox appealing was a parent who might not be into hardcore gaming. Where is the app store appealing to such a person? It hasn't exactly taken off thus far, and while the media features are nice, they are currently a $160 premium over the competition. You're right about one thing, it's still very much in the air whether MS can sell that in the U.S. (the only mass market half these features were designed for, hence the thread title).

And you're really going to put indie apps on a list of what Microsoft is offering over Sony?

And yes I certainly believe having a robust app store on your TV is a value-add. Especially when your competition won't have anything but big publisher apps.
A robust app store (or hell, any app store) is definitely a value-add, for sure. Not sure what you mean by the competition only having "big publisher apps".
 
Jun 19, 2013
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Guess we'll have to see then. Though if it's common sense, then why were they planned from the outset to be behind the pay wall? Why are we here, waiting/hoping to see if that gets cancelled? The problem is a lot of things that seem like common sense have taken a lot of time to be reversed, corrected or clarified.
Maybe they wan't to make it an announcement, and not something that 'just happens' like they did when they removed patch fees from XBLA games. I'm sure they're just waiting to announce it when they announce their app/game developer framework and policies.

Your example of someone who might find the XBox appealing was a parent who might not be into hardcore gaming. Where is the app store appealing to such a person? It hasn't exactly taken off thus far, and while the media features are nice, they are currently a $160 premium over the competition. You're right about one thing, it's still very much in the air whether MS can sell that in the U.S. (the only mass market half these features were designed for, hence the thread title).
I see normal people clamoring for an iTV at work, at my dentists office, all over the internet. Even if people don't grasp the complexity of providing an app ecosystem on your TV that works and looks as good as the one on your mobile device they're still optimistic about it.

Also, Microsoft has announced partnerships with UK television broadcasters also. I'm not saying Cable TV integration is going to work everywhere all over the world day 1. It will be a rollout that will take time, but, building these partnerships will reap rewards when other players come into the living room in a big way (Google, Apple, Samsung, Amazon, etc). It will be a differentiating factor, and one consumers use to influence purchasing decisions.

And you're really going to put indie apps on a list of what Microsoft is offering over Sony?

A robust app store (or hell, any app store) is definitely a value-add, for sure. Not sure what you mean by the competition only having "big publisher apps".
AFAIK Sony has no app development framework on the PS4. Hobbyist and small developers are left out. Non-entertainment focused services probably won't bother to port their apps over because they won't share any code with the existing versions on iOS/Android/Win8.
 
Dec 20, 2006
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Maybe they wan't to make it an announcement, and not something that 'just happens' like they did when they removed patch fees from XBLA games. I'm sure they're just waiting to announce it when they announce their app/game developer framework and policies.



I see normal people clamoring for an iTV at work, at my dentists office, all over the internet. Even if people don't grasp the complexity of providing an app ecosystem on your TV that works and looks as good as the one on your mobile device they're still optimistic about it.

Also, Microsoft has announced partnerships with UK television broadcasters also. I'm not saying Cable TV integration is going to work everywhere all over the world day 1. It will be a rollout that will take time, but, building these partnerships will reap rewards when other players come into the living room in a big way (Google, Apple, Samsung, Amazon, etc). It will be a differentiating factor, and one consumers use to influence purchasing decisions.



AFAIK Sony has no app development framework on the PS4. Hobbyist and small developers are left out. Non-entertainment focused services probably won't bother to port their apps over because they won't share any code with the existing versions on iOS/Android/Win8.
How big of a deal are non-gaming indie apps on your TV?
 
Dec 20, 2006
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Not as a junior! :D



A big deal. Having VLC on my TV would be great.
Yeah I guess it depends on the user. For $100 Apple TV via my phone or ipad can stream any video type from my bedroom PC with attached 4TB media drive via airvideo.

And honestly outside of mkv support, PS3 already does great with attached media storage.
 
Jun 18, 2013
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I liked that video mocking the xbox. Best part was when the guy said "do you want to play a game, check your fantasy team, and check the Internet? Of course not!" Sad thing is those are the main reasons I am buying the console at launch.
 
Jun 15, 2013
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Clicked link
Saw ******** cited
Closed window
There's also the fact that he somehow thinks the Xbox 360 is the leading incumbent. On the front page of his cited site it has them as 3rd in overall sales of consoles this generation(essentially tied with PS3). I don't understand how some people still think the 360 is the leader of the current generation. Also, to prove his point, he posted top 10 selling games in the USA as a means to determine that the XB1 will dominate. Of course 6 of them were for the 360.

I didn't even notice it at first, but he even goes on to use IllumiRoom, which will most likely have very niche acceptance, as a feature which might push the XB1 > PS4. That feature that MS has given almost no hard details about. As a day 1 XB1 buyer, I'm sad that I ever clicked on that link. It makes my head hurt.
 

Harp

Member
Feb 27, 2013
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I guess if you dont count the WII, and dont look at in worldwide numbers and dont mention that fact that Sony Was was the world wide leader in the last generation. I guess this logic makes perfect since.
 
Jun 19, 2013
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There's also the fact that he somehow thinks the Xbox 360 is the leading incumbent. On the front page of his cited site it has them as 3rd in overall sales of consoles this generation(essentially tied with PS3). I don't understand how some people still think the 360 is the leader of the current generation. Also, to prove his point, he posted top 10 selling games in the USA as a means to determine that the XB1 will dominate. Of course 6 of them were for the 360.

I didn't even notice it at first, but he even goes on to use IllumiRoom, which will most likely have very niche acceptance, as a feature which might push the XB1 > PS4. That feature that MS has given almost no hard details about. As a day 1 XB1 buyer, I'm sad that I ever clicked on that link. It makes my head hurt.
Selling 1 more box than your competitor doesn't make you "the winner" as much as selling one less box than your competitor makes you "the loser". Look at the Wii. Nintendo sold a gazillion of them and failed to capitalize and turn the brand into something bigger. Microsoft has successfully done that. They've turned their brand into the one that people thing about with they think entertainment services and made money hand over fist while doing it.

If one company sold 1000 boxes and lost 50 million total and another company sold 975 boxes but made 50 million who is the winner?
 
Jul 28, 2012
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Here's an interesting article from Betanews, the author explains why he believes that XBO will be the winner in the next generation battle:

http://betanews.com/2013/08/03/four-big-reasons-xbox-one-not-ps4-will-win-over-the-masses/



The four reasons:

4. Hardware Specs Alone Won't Win a Console War
3. Toppling the Leading Incumbent is Easier Said than Done
2. Microsoft's Online Gaming Backbone Puts Sony (and Nintendo) to Shame
1. Modern Consoles Are Entertainment Hubs -- And the Numbers Prove It
4. Ok no one said it will but also being 100$ cheaper sure does.
3. In what Universe is MS the leading incumbent.......oh yeah murica=world mentality I see.
2. PS+ puts XBL to shame
1.Bullshit. What numbers. The numbers suggest people use entertainment a lot on their consoles but no where does it show people buy consoles for such entertainment (at least a significant amount). You don't see hardware spikes when new apps are released but you do when big games are.....hmmm its almost as if people are buying these game consoles to play games.
Selling 1 more box than your competitor doesn't make you "the winner" as much as selling one less box than your competitor makes you "the loser". Look at the Wii. Nintendo sold a gazillion of them and failed to capitalize and turn the brand into something bigger. Microsoft has successfully done that. They've turned their brand into the one that people thing about with they think entertainment services and made money hand over hand while doing it.

If one company sold 1000 boxes and lost 50 million total and another company sold 975 boxes but made 50 million who is the winner?
Are you new to console wars? The "winner" is always decided as the manufacturer that sold the most systems.
 
May 9, 2006
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2. Microsoft's Online Gaming Backbone Puts Sony (and Nintendo) to Shame
1. Modern Consoles Are Entertainment Hubs -- And the Numbers Prove It
MS has a shot at winning the generation in the US if the Xbone reaches price parity with the PS4 in 2014.

4. Hardware Specs Alone Won't Win a Console War
PS1,PS2 and PS3 were powerful when they came out.


3. Toppling the Leading Incumbent is Easier Said than Done
It's true.Sony is the biggest console maker since 1996.

1) PS1 killed the DC -> the PS2 didn't really have any competition during its early years
Code:
 HW Shipments
           
           PS1 43.14m   -> DC  launches JP   
           
           PS1 58.40m   -> DC  launches US
-----------------------------------------------
                   
      LTD  PS1 102.49m

2) PS2 slowed down next-gen adoption -> Sony found time,money and credibility to fix the PS3 business.
Code:
 Shipments

  HW      Ja-Mr'07   Ap-Jn'07   Jl-Sp'07    Oc-Dc'07    Ja-Mr'08    Ap-Jn'08     Ja'07-Jn'08
 
  PS2       2.4        2.7        3.2         5.4         2.4         1.5           17.6   

  PS3       1.8        0.7        1.3         4.9         2.2         1.6           12.5       

  360       0.5        0.7        1.8         4.3         1.3         1.3           9.9

3) PS3 will overtake Wii with relative ease because Nintendo doesn't have a presence in the emerging markets and the Wii's successor is having a hard time competing with the PS3 -> the PS3 is making life easier for the PS4.

Basically,PlayStation is about to win 2 generations in 1
 
May 17, 2013
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well not even a miracle can save it in Japan(also a lock for Sony)
Europe is pretty much a lock for Sony
and im sure price will be a factor
no parents are gonna buy their kids an Xbox One when a PS4 is $100 cheaper
because its a known fact parents look for the cheapest thing they can buy
 

crazy buttocks on a train

quite possibly the greatest username to grace the Internet
Oct 21, 2004
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That was the consensus of this thread where CBOAT hinted at it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=638058&page=12
\excuse me cir.

ddaafuk!? coner ned citiznes .PM MEzaying uthink thiss and what, no.
nut wha im sayin at al. Im talk ngspecfnc BIG app+deal fel apetrtn and gint more confomat((ioan. midsept.ISED THIS ALREDY.L no wrds in my mouth plese.

wall off payne noswitch on XBOnE far azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I no.
netflickes/othe..rs therequissrsed.>< gold.stil

midsept for confimr. larend miy leson from halopPOP

OH bthe wayGOD NEWS FOr xboNE::! black tusks is til runrina late inprepro but loks fkuin great. skil;led devs on anim&& audio esp.
 
Mar 10, 2013
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Did it? pretty sure N64 couldnt handle Gran Turismo..
You're right that you probably couldn't port GT as is, but I'm not sure where you're going with that.

N64 was more powerful than PS1, it's not really up for debate. There were things PS1 did better(like sound), but N64 had more raw power without a doubt.
 
Apr 9, 2012
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\excuse me cir.

ddaafuk!? coner ned citiznes .PM MEzaying uthink thiss and what, no.
nut wha im sayin at al. Im talk ngspecfnc BIG app+deal fel apetrtn and gint more confomat((ioan. midsept.ISED THIS ALREDY.L no wrds in my mouth plese.

wall off payne noswitch on XBOnE far azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I no.
netflickes/othe..rs therequissrsed.>< gold.stil

midsept for confimr. larend miy leson from halopPOP

OH bthe wayGOD NEWS FOr xboNE::! black tusks is til runrina late inprepro but loks fkuin great. skil;led devs on anim&& audio esp.
This sounds fantastic. I can't wait to see what they have in store.
 
Jun 19, 2013
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\excuse me cir.

ddaafuk!? coner ned citiznes .PM MEzaying uthink thiss and what, no.
nut wha im sayin at al. Im talk ngspecfnc BIG app+deal fel apetrtn and gint more confomat((ioan. midsept.ISED THIS ALREDY.L no wrds in my mouth plese.

wall off payne noswitch on XBOnE far azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I no.
netflickes/othe..rs therequissrsed.>< gold.stil

midsept for confimr. larend miy leson from halopPOP

OH bthe wayGOD NEWS FOr xboNE::! black tusks is til runrina late inprepro but loks fkuin great. skil;led devs on anim&& audio esp.
I got quoted by CBOAT. My life is fulfilled.

On topic: welp, that squashes that rumor! Back to square 1.
 
Mar 27, 2007
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You're right that you probably couldn't port GT as is, but I'm not sure where you're going with that.

N64 was more powerful than PS1, it's not really up for debate. There were things PS1 did better(like sound), but N64 had more raw power without a doubt.
Certainly CPU-wise. I could be mistaken, but I think the PSone and Saturn could push more polygons than the N64. However, it could be a case of theoretical vs. real world.
 
Apr 9, 2012
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I got quoted by CBOAT. My life is fulfilled.

On topic: welp, that squashes that rumor! Back to square 1.
Well, kinda. Like CBoaT said, we'll have to wait for confirmation which he's saying will come in September.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are behind the Gold paywall though. Also, I'm hoping for a new tier of Live service that offers some kind of digital download rental service for all games on Live. I know it's a bit of a stretch but I think it would be awesome.
 
Jun 19, 2013
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\excuse me cir.

ddaafuk!? coner ned citiznes .PM MEzaying uthink thiss and what, no.
nut wha im sayin at al. Im talk ngspecfnc BIG app+deal fel apetrtn and gint more confomat((ioan. midsept.ISED THIS ALREDY.L no wrds in my mouth plese.

wall off payne noswitch on XBOnE far azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I no.
netflickes/othe..rs therequissrsed.>< gold.stil

midsept for confimr. larend miy leson from halopPOP

OH bthe wayGOD NEWS FOr xboNE::! black tusks is til runrina late inprepro but loks fkuin great. skil;led devs on anim&& audio esp.
I'm gonna try my hand at this:

Excuse me sir.

What the fuck?! Concerned citizens, [[PM me saying what you think and why]]. <-------- unsure about that
That was not what I was saying at all. I'm talking about a specific big app and deal that fell through but I need more confirmation (In mid-september. I said this already. Please don't put words into my mouth)

Paywall is not switched off on Xbox One as far as I know.
Netflix and other apps still require Gold as of now.

Midseptember for confirmation, learned my lesson from Halo + Prince of Persia.

Oh, by the way, good news for Xbox One! Black Tusk's game is still running a bit late in preproduction but looks fucking great. They have some skilled developers on animation and audio especially.
 
Jan 12, 2012
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\excuse me cir.

ddaafuk!? coner ned citiznes .PM MEzaying uthink thiss and what, no.
nut wha im sayin at al. Im talk ngspecfnc BIG app+deal fel apetrtn and gint more confomat((ioan. midsept.ISED THIS ALREDY.L no wrds in my mouth plese.

wall off payne noswitch on XBOnE far azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I no.
netflickes/othe..rs therequissrsed.>< gold.stil

midsept for confimr. larend miy leson from halopPOP

OH bthe wayGOD NEWS FOr xboNE::! black tusks is til runrina late inprepro but loks fkuin great. skil;led devs on anim&& audio esp.

daBoat has spoken!

Interesting...I wonder if this is regarding something like the NFL deal or the Twitch partnership

What little they showed of the Black Tusk Studio's game was pretty meh. But they barely showed anything so
 
Jun 19, 2013
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daBoat has spoken!

Interesting...I wonder if this is regarding something like the NFL deal or the Twitch partnership

What little they showed of the Black Tusk Studio's game was pretty meh. But they barely showed anything so
It could be the NFL cross promo deal. The Twitch partnership doesn't make much sense though. CBOAT said that the decision was/will be made based on Xbox App Ecosystem details, with more info to come mid-September.
 
Aug 12, 2011
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wall off payne noswitch on XBOnE far azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I no.
netflickes/othe..rs therequissrsed.>< gold.stil
MS has enjoyed a walled garden this gen and people were held hostage to Live by friends and acquaintances. This is a new gen and people can easily switch to greener pastures. Even without the hardware advantages PS4 is $100 cheaper and no pay wall for media. Does MS really expect people to pay $100 more for the hardware and $60 or more a year just use Media features? PS3 is the number one Netflix device for a reason.
 

CharLeay

Neo Member
Jan 22, 2013
16
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Here's an interesting article from Betanews, the author explains why he believes that XBO will be the winner in the next generation battle:

http://betanews.com/2013/08/03/four-big-reasons-xbox-one-not-ps4-will-win-over-the-masses/



The four reasons:

4. Hardware Specs Alone Won't Win a Console War
3. Toppling the Leading Incumbent is Easier Said than Done
2. Microsoft's Online Gaming Backbone Puts Sony (and Nintendo) to Shame
1. Modern Consoles Are Entertainment Hubs -- And the Numbers Prove It

At the end of the day, we need to be patient and see how the server farm affects multiplayer on the XB1. Granted Sony can rent servers from different suppliers, this should (yes, I said should) play out to M$'s benefit as they curate their own farm. Further they won the multiplayer battle due to their software prowess compared to Sony's Cell Architecture; which we all know is more powerful, but not dev friendly. Sony is still the juggernaut, but at the end of the day I am sure both companies will come out on top - both will be reaping Nintendo's lack of foresight.
 
Jun 10, 2011
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MS has enjoyed a walled garden this gen and people were held hostage to Live by friends and acquaintances. This is a new gen and people can easily switch to greener pastures. Even without the hardware advantages PS4 is $100 cheaper and no pay wall for media. Does MS really expect people to pay $100 more for the hardware and $60 or more a year just use Media features? PS3 is the number one Netflix device for a reason.
I still haven't seen a single media "feature" that the xbox one can do that a ps4 can't, besides split screening info where I would much prefer to do that on my phone anyways.

I don't even see the appeal of the cable box thing even 1% since it doesn't use your dvr.
 
Oct 27, 2004
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That was, genuinely, one of the worst defenses I've seen of the XBO yet.

But I'm glad this thread was salvaged by words from Our Prophet, Crazy Buttocks on a Train. Keep on truckin', my friend. Your spyglass ways are a benefit to us all. :salute:
 
Jun 9, 2012
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Er how can anyone think the XBO will win when ps3 will beat the 360 launching a year later and bombing for 2 years? The PS4 would have to outright fail to lose to xbone WW. Now the ps4 is cheaper, easier to develop for, and out at the same time and will lose?