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[Angels of a Wing]

That kinda makes sense. The PS2 will no doubt outsell the Revolution, and it should outdo the 360 as well. PS2+FFXII should be a potent combination.

PS2 won't outsell them in 2007 though, come on lol.

Considering it seems like almost everyone and their mother has a ps2 by now how is it going to STILL be outselling the next gen systems come the holidays? Unless it's people buying replacement units or something or their's a massive sortage of revs/360's I don't see how the ps2 would sell the most during that time period.

 

[Monorojo]

PS2 won't outsell them in 2007 though, come on lol.

You underestimate the $49 price tag.

 

[Speevy]

Hey Monorojo: Explain to me how not releasing the PS3 is good for even one of us. We all have Playstation 2s, even me. Are you that concerned with Sony's profits?

 

[Ponn]

A delay til late 07' would be great for both Sony and gamers everywhere. Lowering initial loss + lengthing PS2 lifespan = everyone wins. Sony doesnt need to release PS3 this year, anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts.

And before people say "but but Rev and 360 will have a headstart!111" Guess what, they are both going to be outsold by PS2 this holiday and next, so why would Sony give a crock?

Does GAF not learn a damn thing or what.

1) PS3 absolutely, positively NEEDS to launch this fall. Sony knows, MS knows it, Nintendo knows it and the more reasonable and sensible people know it.

2) Sony WILL launch PS3 this fall in Japan and the U.S. Overall worldwide? Don't know and don't really care (sorry Euro people, hey, the majority of you haven't even caught up with the rest of us and HDTV so start there in the meantime).

3) Being outsold by PS2 is great on paper but does shit for the PS3 userbase. And most of the people buying the lowered price PS2 instead of next gen hardware are pretty much the leftovers at this point anyways that will be buying a few greatest hits and just buying a machine to shut their kids up.

 

[Angels of a Wing]

You underestimate the $49 price tag.

Considering how long it took them to drop to the current price I really really doubt that they'll drop that low anytime soon. Maybe used if your lucky but that won't make a dent in sales numbers.

 

[DCharlie]

there is absolutely no need to drop the price of the PS2 until the sales start falling.

"didn't Sony themselves say that they will have a 1 million unit/month production capacity by the Fall?"

they are aiming for 1 million - again, that doesn't make it a cast iron guarantee they'll hit it (see : PSP production targets)

 

[Littleberu]

I find it amusing that some of you people are sure that the PS3 won't launch in November because "no playable games were shown". Keep in mind that you are CUSTOMERS. You're are not the industry. And don't believe everything that this guy at Ubisoft will say, or this guy at EA, or this guy at whatever company ; most of the time, if they talk, they are to be fired anyway. So they'll say any bullshit they want as long as it hurts the company.

PS3 will see the light of day in November.

 

[DCharlie]

I find it amusing that some of you people are sure that the PS3 won't launch in November because "no playable games were shown". Keep in mind that you are CUSTOMERS. You're are not the industry. And don't believe everything that this guy at Ubisoft will say, or this guy at EA, or this guy at whatever company ; most of the time, if they talk, they are to be fired anyway. So they'll say any bullshit they want as long as it hurts the company.

whilst i totally agree with what you are saying, bear in mind that people said this was the case for the Spring launch too.

I'm sure we'll see a launch in November - i personally believe that Sony will step away from a global launch nearer the time, and will present the delay as 'wanting to get as many units to the US and europe as possible and to allow time for a stronger line up' (japan first, March USA, June Europe)

 

[Archie]

whilst i totally agree with what you are saying, bear in mind that people said this was the case for the Spring launch too.

I'm sure we'll see a launch in November - i personally believe that Sony will step away from a global launch nearer the time, and will present the delay as 'wanting to get as many units to the US and europe as possible and to allow time for a stronger line up' (japan first, March USA, June Europe)

I doubt Sony wants to give Microsoft a second holiday season without competition in America.

 

[Deleted member 284]

whilst i totally agree with what you are saying, bear in mind that people said this was the case for the Spring launch too.

I'm sure we'll see a launch in November - i personally believe that Sony will step away from a global launch nearer the time, and will present the delay as 'wanting to get as many units to the US and europe as possible and to allow time for a stronger line up' (japan first, March USA, June Europe)

I think it would be smarter to launch in the USA first. Japan is a long for 20 million units. Would the Japanese game playing public shun Sony for getting the console after the Yanks? I doubt it would matter. However, Sony NEEDS to launch in USA this year.

 

[DCharlie]

I doubt Sony wants to give Microsoft a second holiday season without competition in America.

so do i - but people were also saying that Sony wouldn't give MS a years head start as well.
Nothing is impossible right about now.

It'll all come down to what numbers they can produce - i personally live in fear of a low number of launch units spread across 3 locations , hopefully this was all a factor in the original delay.

Go on Sony, just make the SAME unit for US / Japan, that way you can better control inventory and be more reactive to demand etc!

 

[SolidSnakex]

whilst i totally agree with what you are saying, bear in mind that people said this was the case for the Spring launch too.

I'm sure we'll see a launch in November - i personally believe that Sony will step away from a global launch nearer the time, and will present the delay as 'wanting to get as many units to the US and europe as possible and to allow time for a stronger line up' (japan first, March USA, June Europe)

I don't see Sony missing a US launch this year. It could happen in Europe just because of how strong their base is there but they need to get things moving this year in the US.

 

[Monorojo]

Hey Monorojo: Explain to me how not releasing the PS3 is good for even one of us. We all have Playstation 2s, even me. Are you that concerned with Sony's profits?

We wont have spend $300+ on a new system, and instead we will continue to see amazing support for the PS2, already God of War 2 and SOCOM 4 are lined up for PS2 in 2007. Do we really need a brand new Playstation when the one we currently have is still running on all cylinders?

1) PS3 absolutely, positively NEEDS to launch this fall. Sony knows, MS knows it, Nintendo knows it and the more reasonable and sensible people know it.

Why? Sony is THE console gaming industry right now, they write the rules. At this point, Sony doesnt even have to acknowledge the competition, its like the New York Yankees worrying about how well the Cleveland farm league is performing. Once PS3 is released, we all know it will steal any thunder that MS or Nintendo would be riding at that point, and it will be game over.Sony holds all the cards.

2) Sony WILL launch PS3 this fall in Japan and the U.S. Overall worldwide? Don't know and don't really care (sorry Euro people, hey, the majority of you haven't even caught up with the rest of us and HDTV so start there in the meantime).

Sadly i agree with you here, Sony will indeed launch in Japan before the year is over.

3) Being outsold by PS2 is great on paper but does shit for the PS3 userbase. And most of the people buying the lowered price PS2 instead of next gen hardware are pretty much the leftovers at this point anyways that will be buying a few greatest hits and just buying a machine to shut their kids up.

PS2 owners are more likely to upgrade to PS3 over 360 or REV when they feel comfortable to do so. IT will also help Sony deal with the cost of launching the PS3 this year. Also, there are far more individuals that you or I would like to think that are gamers but still find PS2 at over $100 too expensive.

Sony would by silly not to drop the price to $99 this winter to counteract the Revolution, but i likely did jump the gun on the $49 price tag thing. PS2 just saw the drop to $129, Sony may very well let it ride through the end of the year and most of 2007 if it continues to sell 500k+ a month worldwide like it is now.

 

[EviLore]

Drugs are bad.

 

[Matlock]

Drugs are bad.

the ps9 will be drugs

 

[Archie]

I don't see Sony missing a US launch this year. It could happen in Europe just because of how strong their base is there but they need to get things moving this year in the US.

The US is probably their major concern since Microsoft has the best chance of being the market leader in that region. If Sony had to choose one region to launch at first I would assume they would choose the US. They have less worries about competition in Europe and Japan.

 

[Amir0x]

Considering it seems like almost everyone and their mother has a ps2 by now how is it going to STILL be outselling the next gen systems come the holidays? Unless it's people buying replacement units or something or their's a massive sortage of revs/360's I don't see how the ps2 would sell the most during that time period.

i'm guessing it's because everyone and their mother doesn't have a PS2, and that it's still pretty much selling like semi-hot cakes that's the reason behind the thought PS2 will continue to outsell next-gen systems over the holidays.

I would be shocked if it didn't. It should do that this holiday definitely, imo.

 

[impirius]

Got this from a guy who got it from some other guy... which is said to be a developer.
Pic from 360 devkit (supposedly coming from him):
http://i3.tinypic.com/w7c39y.jpg

ANYWAY, the guy posted this:

Sounds like an impossible job to me!

It looks a lot like that thing that mathematically proves that Santa Claus can't visit everyone's house on Christmas Eve.

But you still get your presents, don't you?

Believe.

 

[Ponn]

We wont have spend $300+ on a new system, and instead we will continue to see amazing support for the PS2, already God of War 2 and SOCOM 4 are lined up for PS2 in 2007. Do we really need a brand new Playstation when the one we currently have is still running on all cylinders?



Why? Sony is THE console gaming industry right now, they write the rules. At this point, Sony doesnt even have to acknowledge the competition, its like the New York Yankees worrying about how well the Cleveland farm league is performing. Once PS3 is released, we all know it will steal any thunder that MS or Nintendo would be riding at that point, and it will be game over.Sony holds all the cards.



Sadly i agree with you here, Sony will indeed launch in Japan before the year is over.



PS2 owners are more likely to upgrade to PS3 over 360 or REV when they feel comfortable to do so. IT will also help Sony deal with the cost of launching the PS3 this year. Also, there are far more individuals that you or I would like to think that are gamers but still find PS2 at over $100 too expensive.

Sony would by silly not to drop the price to $99 this winter to counteract the Revolution, but i likely did jump the gun on the $49 price tag thing. PS2 just saw the drop to $129, Sony may very well let it ride through the end of the year and most of 2007 if it continues to sell 500k+ a month worldwide like it is now.

No. I could waste my time with a more well thought out longer response going point by point but I have this strong feeling it wouldn't matter.

Drugs are bad.

That's not what my friends, neighbors dog told me.

 

[Cooter]

A PS3 delay bodes best for Nintendo IMO. They will have 3-4 solid months to build some momentum.

 

[mashoutposse]

they are aiming for 1 million - again, that doesn't make it a cast iron guarantee they'll hit it (see : PSP production targets)

True, just saying that the daily production numbers calculated in the original post don't really suggest anything about a delay. But, judging from the way the discussion has shifted, that wasn't exactly rocket science to anyone here.

 

[lele]

this is from a post on assemblergames forums

 

[BorkBork]

Why? Sony is THE console gaming industry right now, they write the rules. At this point, Sony doesnt even have to acknowledge the competition, its like the New York Yankees worrying about how well the Cleveland farm league is performing. Once PS3 is released, we all know it will steal any thunder that MS or Nintendo would be riding at that point, and it will be game over.Sony holds all the cards.

It's comments like these that make people not take you seriously. Are you really that naive?

 

[Archie]

It's comments like these that make people not take you seriously. Are you really that naive?

He thought the PSPIV was a real thing. :lol

 

[MetalAlien]

I'm hearing the new HD DVDs take almost a minute to load... a movie! Man I hope blu ray is not like that.

Sony will release this year, we heard all this crap before with the PS2.

 

[Monorojo]

You honestly think MS and Nintendo are in the same league as Sony when it comes to home consoles?

Have you been living under a rock the past 12 years?

Since 1994

HOME CONSOLES SOLD
Sony = 200 million+
Nintendo = 50 million+
Microsoft =25 million~
Sega = 20 million~

I mean come on, you dont have to even like Sony to admit they are the one's who will decide when next gen starts.

EDIT:

He thought the PSPIV was a real thing. :lol

wat

 

[Cooter]

Mono, have some perspective.

Companies rise and fall. It is the cycle of the martket.

Yes, past performance matters but not as much as you seem to think.

 

[Monorojo]

When you sell 80~ million more consoles than your closest competitor the prior 5 years, its given what the future holds. You need no special powers.

This isnt like Nintendo and how they fell. The writing was on the wall long before what happened to them with N64. Between the release of the NES and N64, they lost 25% of their fanbase (Sony has by all numbers gained this generation) nearly 40% of the global marketshare and half the market in the biggest gaming territory in the world. Not too mention 3rd parties and image were already weakening dramatically.

Sony has complete and utter control, and to think that will change in one generation is pretty mind-boggling.

 

[element]

PS3 is absolutely anything but rushed.

ask any developer and they will say it has been rushed.

 

[Amir0x]

i really don't see how it's rushed, especially after the delay now, but i guess I'm not a developer. I mean it doesn't make much sense that this technology, only "barely" better than 360 in any way, with BRD being done in May or June of 2006 and ancient alpha development kits in the hands of certain devs since before E3 2005 will have been rushed by the time it launches in November 2006. Shit though, if that's "rushed" then I'm glad it's being rushed.

 

[DarienA]

ask any developer and they will say it has been rushed.

Any developer? So all developers think the PS3 is rushed?

Blanket statements make baby jesus cry, anyway how is that different than any other generation?

 

[Earthstrike]

Nintendo could not meet demand in Japan witht he nintendo DS.
Nintendo canot produce more than 200,000 units a week/28,000 units a week.

The Nintendo DS + DS Lite are simpler than the PS3.

Conclusion. Sony can do it but it WILL cost a lot and it WILL be difficult and there IS a very high probability of a shortage and a delayed territory.

 

[Amir0x]

Of course there will be a shortage. The only question is "for how long?"

 

[Yoboman]

Nintendo could not meet demand in Japan witht he nintendo DS.
Nintendo canot produce more than 200,000 units a week/28,000 units a week.

The Nintendo DS + DS Lite are simpler than the PS3.

Conclusion. Sony can do it but it WILL cost a lot and it WILL be difficult and there IS a very high probability of a shortage and a delayed territory.

Yes because Nintendo's manufacturing capabilities are on par with Sony's :lol

 

[icecream]

I don't know about you guys, but if Ken says he can produce PS3 anytime, I believe.

 

[Slurpy]

PS3 should just shun Japan, allocate all their launch units to the US, then launch in Japan a couple of months later. Sure, the rage of Japan ill be indescribable,but really, they have absolutely no threats over there. The market is theirs.

And please, how in the HELL is the ps3 rushed? Every console is 'rushed' to an extent, but the damn ps2 launched in 1999. I read articles about the ps3 shortly after the ps2 launch. 8 years later does not constitute a rushed system. If they really wanted to rush it, they would have beat the 360 to market.

 

[Yoboman]

Being an Aussie I'm so used to being shafted by game companies this'll just roll off my shoulder if and when it's delayed here. I'm kinda wary about being able to get it as one of the first people in the world anyway, not knowing how reliable the hardware will be. Usually I will know by the time the systems get here

 

[Zombie James]

ask any developer and they will say it has been rushed.

I'd really like to know which developers you've asked :lol

 

[Xrenity]

Heh, of course the source is shady, I tried putting some irony in that first post.

However, can't ignore those numbers, and last news was PS3 was still 50% too big for its casing, and Sony still didn't finalise stuff.

 

[gofreak]

ask any developer and they will say it has been rushed.

The ones supposedly sitting with final silicon with 7/8 months til launch? Or the Japanese developers who were aiming for Spring? Maybe there are degrees of "rushedness", but relative to the one coming before it, I scarcely see a comparison.

Go on Sony, just make the SAME unit for US / Japan, that way you can better control inventory and be more reactive to demand etc!

Certain things would have to be different, like the power cable in the box, localised manuals etc. but the hardware sounds like it'll be region-free for games, and the Blu-ray regions between Japan and the US are the same (that's probably all something that's changeable via firmware anyway).

 

[Mike Works]

SolidSnakeX and mashoutposse are defending Sony with element sprinkling thinly veiled attacks against the company's productivity- can someone archive this thread just in case the servers go down at E3, because this is fucking unprecidented!

 

[C4Lukins]

Considering it seems like almost everyone and their mother has a ps2 by now how is it going to STILL be outselling the next gen systems come the holidays? Unless it's people buying replacement units or something or their's a massive sortage of revs/360's I don't see how the ps2 would sell the most during that time period.

The 100 million userbase for PS2 is complete bull shit. If that is actaully the case, why is it that the games for the 360 and orignal XBOX took 12 of the top 25 spots on the NPD with 1/5th of the audience of the PS2 alone? I have personally owned three PS2's, my brother has owned two, both are rotting in a box in the basement, a friend of mine only owned one, but he hasn't bought a game for it since the Gamecube came out. The fact that a system is purchased, does not mean that particular buyer is still in the PS2 game buying market. People talk about GBA sales, sure that is great, but who is buying GBA games these days? Just because mom bought her 6 year old a GBA, and a 5 dollar Finding Nemo game, doesn't really equate to any sort of dominance, or established fanbase. And if you look at recent GBA game sales, they are about five higher then actual system sales.

Point being, the PS2 can keep selling forever, but their software sales are going down substantially despite this "giant ever growing userbase." Shit Gamecube and XBOX are still selling, yet their overall software sales are decreasing. Which proves the point that modern sales of 5 year old hardware is irrelavent. The people buying these systems now, are not the types that are going to be buying a lot of software in the future.

 

[cheekymunky]

The 100 million userbase for PS2 is complete bull shit. If that is actaully the case, why is it that the games for the 360 and orignal XBOX took 12 of the top 25 spots on the NPD with 1/5th of the audience of the PS2 alone? I have personally owned three PS2's, my brother has owned two, both are rotting in a box in the basement, a friend of mine only owned one, but he hasn't bought a game for it since the Gamecube came out. The fact that a system is purchased, does not mean that particular buyer is still in the PS2 game buying market. People talk about GBA sales, sure that is great, but who is buying GBA games these days? Just because mom bought her 6 year old a GBA, and a 5 dollar Finding Nemo game, doesn't really equate to any sort of dominance, or established fanbase. And if you look at recent GBA game sales, they are about five higher then actual system sales.

Point being, the PS2 can keep selling forever, but their software sales are going down substantially despite this "giant ever growing userbase." Shit Gamecube and XBOX are still selling, yet their overall software sales are decreasing. Which proves the point that modern sales of 5 year old hardware is irrelavent. The people buying these systems now, are not the types that are going to be buying a lot of software in the future.

How long will those 360 anc Xbox games hold on to 12 of the top 25 spot? I ask this only because it should be apparent that people are gearing up to the laucn of PS3 and Revolution. Those NPD numbers would mean a hell of a lot more if there were PS3 and Revo games to compete against.
I do agree with the 100 million userbase b.s. though. I would really love to know just how many working PS2 consoles are out there. I own 2 right now (I had an original from launch that still works, but sold it to a friend to get a slim) and the ONLY reason I dont buy more games for it is that I am awaiting the eminent launch of PS3.

 

[Tat]

blah blah blah

PS2 least popular system! nobody uses it! seems over for sony!

 

[gofreak]

The 100 million userbase for PS2 is complete bull shit. If that is actaully the case, why is it that the games for the 360 and orignal XBOX took 12 of the top 25 spots on the NPD with 1/5th of the audience of the PS2 alone?

How many Xbox games have been sold to date? Sony claims >1bn PS2 software units have been sold to date on a 101m userbase. Nintendo claims 184m software units on a 20m userbase, so compared to it at least, the software market is in proportion with the hardware base (in fact, slightly bigger, per unit).

 

[NeonZ]

How many Xbox games have been sold to date? Sony claims >1bn PS2 software units have been sold to date on a 101m userbase. Nintendo claims 184m software units on a 20m userbase, so compared to it at least, the software market is in proportion with the hardware base (in fact, slightly bigger, per unit).

What's the source of those statements?

 

[gofreak]

What's the source of those statements?

PS2 numbers, from Sony's price-cut release. GC's, I got from Dean Takahashi's blog. I can't find the link subsequently again, but the same figures are referenced in other reports (albeit, confusingly, LTD mario game sales come in at 184m also, but that appears to be coincidental!).

edit - here's the link, afterall: http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/01/video_game_comp.html

 

[NeonZ]

PS2 numbers, from Sony's price-cut release. GC's, I got from Dean Takahashi's blog. I can't find the link subsequently again, but the same figures are referenced in other reports (albeit, confusingly, LTD mario game sales come in at 184m also, but that appears to be coincidental!).

edit - here's the link, afterall: http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/01/video_game_comp.html

Ok. Nintendo's numbers are january 2006... What about Sony's software numbers? Are those from this year too?

 

[Yoboman]

The 100 million userbase for PS2 is complete bull shit. If that is actaully the case, why is it that the games for the 360 and orignal XBOX took 12 of the top 25 spots on the NPD with 1/5th of the audience of the PS2 alone? I have personally owned three PS2's, my brother has owned two, both are rotting in a box in the basement, a friend of mine only owned one, but he hasn't bought a game for it since the Gamecube came out. The fact that a system is purchased, does not mean that particular buyer is still in the PS2 game buying market. People talk about GBA sales, sure that is great, but who is buying GBA games these days? Just because mom bought her 6 year old a GBA, and a 5 dollar Finding Nemo game, doesn't really equate to any sort of dominance, or established fanbase. And if you look at recent GBA game sales, they are about five higher then actual system sales.

Point being, the PS2 can keep selling forever, but their software sales are going down substantially despite this "giant ever growing userbase." Shit Gamecube and XBOX are still selling, yet their overall software sales are decreasing. Which proves the point that modern sales of 5 year old hardware is irrelavent. The people buying these systems now, are not the types that are going to be buying a lot of software in the future.

By your reasoning, with Xbox and 360 apparently dominating half the monthly top 10, then what, 80% of PS2's have broken down? Don't be rediculous

 

[Yoboman]

Ok. Nintendo's numbers are january 2006... What about Sony's software numbers? Are those from this year too?

If he has no link, I can affirm what he is saying about Sony's software. I read the same numbers not too long ago